Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on October 07, 2008, 04:10:09 PM
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Turned out I guessed right. There were 15 110s :)
Bastage JollyFE HO's me too in a 15 110s on 1 38G :)
I must admit, I'll never understand the appeal, but you guys did take that field fast. 22 Bish, 5 of us Knits that tried to get up. It was gone in a hurry.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/110s.jpg)
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15 on 1 and you got HO'd? Who woulda thunk it!!!! Sounds like a Bish
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Thanks Corky!
Yep..if you in the mood to get upset about how you die it is best NOT to oppose a BoP mission :aok
We are an immoral, unethical, unsportmanslike squad and it is best to leave us be when we are being aggressive. MOST of the knits and rooks seem to understand this. (Let Dracula have one woman and the rest are saved sort of thing) Why cant you get his through your thick skull!!!! :D
Actually bud you just need more wingies...we upped against a 30 man NOE yesterday...110s and nikkis...difference is when BoPs up against an noe we up 15 pilots and we whine about how many assists we end up with.... :devil
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Come on corky!! Shoulda let me known...it coulda been 15 v 2....and the 2 woulda prevailed!!!!!! :D
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I count 14
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I count 13 and more than likely 2 more are off of the screenshot.
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On the film there were 15 110s listed, and some other single engine birds as well as GVs. Falc and company wanted that base.
4 of us barely got airborne and there was one guy in a flak, but it was way too little too late.
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Oooh ooh! I'm the low 190 on the left!
P.S. Guppy, if you would have went down when I first shot you, you would not have gotten HO'd later, hence, it is your fault.
EDIT: You really should've chosen a better camera angle. Your butt is getting big. :eek:
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I always miss the good ones...grrr stupid RL interupting my cartoon life. Then you could have counted 16!
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I can never understand stuff like this. I have been victim to the Bop horde before too. Is their confidence of their skills so poor that they MUST have 5-6 guys chasing a solitary target? Maybe its because they don't know how to share and MUST race each other to the target screaming "mine, mine,mine". Maybe to them its more important to kill those big bad buildings, and capture the base instead of fighting real moving fighting targets. How much fun can it really be to have 15+ guy over whelm a base?
Years ago when I was in a big squad each of our 3 wings had a mission/job. First group was the main strike force, second was either second wave (if needed), or first wave at the next base or decoy wing(attack a base to get a response and split the defenders numbers), and the third was the ack/pork wing. They would run out front and take the ack out and run off. Ack would be down long enough so when the next group was ready to move on it had a target that was deacked. Or, if on the defensive that night it would be that groups duty to pork troops or ammo along the front. We used our numbers in strategy, not in brute force, of course we were confident in our skills to do what needed to be done.
Bops are afraid of competition, or the base capture is more important. If they were looking for the "fight" instead of the base they could ease off on the ganging. 3 guys up, 6 Bops SHOULD be enough to knock them down wouldn't you say? If that was how they went about it tho, the few defenders there may keep upping because its fun fighting in a low slow furball. Bops could get more kills, learn to share, defenders could have a small hope (very small seeing the numbers the Bops bring) to defend, and would generate a small furball untill they did win the capture.....if they could sustain the pressure.
Sounds like fun for all. On the other hand they could continue with the "horde" mentality, defenders will get tired of getting ganged and will either join the "gang" on their team to fight in the safety of the horde, or log off in disgust as it no fun fighting in a horde, or against one. Before you know it people will be canceling their subscriptions........ hey wait ! Did this happen before?
The big squads CAN dictate what happens in an arena. This is where the community can help itself. Big squads need to take a look at how they are shaping the arena with their play. By making small changes in how they play in the arena, everyone can have fun. Its all about the fun.
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15 on 1 and you got HO'd? Who woulda thunk it!!!! Sounds like a Bish
funny, i've been HO'd by all three sides in the same situation. happens much more when i fly against nits.
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That just doesn't look like a good place to be for a con. Not at all.
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He had to HO to make sure none of the other 14 guys got the kill.
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Try and look at it like this fugitive..
When going into a base,when cons start upping,they are not looking for the "FIGHT",they have only ONE objective,"FIND THE GOON"..This is their primary goal.This means they are streaming past as many as possible to get to where they think it may be..hence as many as possible will try and get him,as someone may have enough E to get on him and kill him,if he does not get HO'ed first...
I would like to think that many times,if someone hollers on vox CON LOW INTO TOWN,that many who are not close will turn and work on that con and break off from another in which 4-6 may already be chasing...
Falcon23 :salute
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Ding ding ding! Goon was 5 miles from town.
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funny, i've been HO'd by all three sides in the same situation. happens much more when i fly against nits.
Dweebery is not bound by country borders.
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Try and look at it like this fugitive..
When going into a base,when cons start upping,they are not looking for the "FIGHT",they have only ONE objective,"FIND THE GOON"..This is their primary goal.This means they are streaming past as many as possible to get to where they think it may be..hence as many as possible will try and get him,as someone may have enough E to get on him and kill him,if he does not get HO'ed first...
I would like to think that many times,if someone hollers on vox CON LOW INTO TOWN,that many who are not close will turn and work on that con and break off from another in which 4-6 may already be chasing...
Falcon23 :salute
Speak for yourself bud.
I want up to fight. Biggest red dar bar means more to shoot at or shoot at me. If taking the base is all you are after so be it, but don't justify the HO'ing and the horde by blaming the poor 38G driver who went up to fight :)
I posted the screenshot because I told Falconwing at the time it would make a good one, and I'd guessed it was 15 110s. Turns out I guessed right. He'd tell you I went up to fight too.
Frankly it just wasn't that big a deal other then it made me laugh at the time :)
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The overall reality is pretty simple, within the broader game is a large variety of subsets. Each side has a subset that focuses on a maximum numbers/digital dirt aspect of game play. While invariably a few players with skill are mingled in the vast majority are severely ACM challenged. I once ran into a 9 or 10 member BOP sweep in an A-20 and waxed em all. Does that mean that every BOP is clueless? Possible but I doubt it...but it leads to the reality that by and large pigeons are prey....not predators.
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The overall reality is pretty simple, within the broader game is a large variety of subsets. Each side has a subset that focuses on a maximum numbers/digital dirt aspect of game play. While invariably a few players with skill are mingled in the vast majority are severely ACM challenged. I once ran into a 9 or 10 member BOP sweep in an A-20 and waxed em all. Does that mean that every BOP is clueless? Possible but I doubt it...but it leads to the reality that by and large pigeons are prey....not predators.
Theres that word "skill" again. Lmfao!
Some of you guys really do take yourselves a little to serious.
Its a video game.
Skills, now thats really really funny.
Ooooooo nooooooo , I,m prey in a video game :rofl
I tremble in fear of your video dweebery. :rofl
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Ding ding ding!
Fries are done!
:D
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I'd criticize a guy in a 110G for HO'ing if it weren't for the nagging little fact that the 110G is one bird that has a great chance of outright winning in that sort of action.
Actually, I don't understand either the fascination of using Lemming Kung-Fu to take a base OR the fascination of upping into 15-1 odds to become horde food. Cork, if you're going to be lone wolf, you don't run right into the middle of the buffalo herd, ya got to hunt the stragglers man, seriously. Preferably that yearling that got kicked in the head as a calf and now his eyes don't ever exactly focus on the same point...
Whoa, I just realized I was dangerously close to having a metaphor get away from me and careen up into the bleachers. Hope no bystanders got hurt.
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i will add my worthless two cents in
the BOPs are a very good squad that works together, i know i was a Bop, they don't screw around when it comes to taking bases, i remember one time we took a base in less then two min. from start of attack.
for those of you who think they fly together because they are afraid or don't have ACM, that's just plain wrong!
they fly like that because they are friends, and brothers in the virtual air.
I don't fly with them any longer because i like to fly against the Horde, and i say that with no disrespect, but i never cared about taking bases and such like that, or staying loyal to 1 chess piece,
you very rarely read on 200 any Bops harassing other players, or whining, about what other players are flying, or how they are flying for that matter.
to me that shows class.
ya they, horde, but heck all sides do, many times i will fly away from my base to attack at an unfriendly base and there are 10 to 15 friendlies all hovering around our base waiting for 1 or 2 cons to come in then they all jump on him.
so i would say that hourding is by far, a commen occurrence on all sides not exclusive to Bops.
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LOL. OK before this becomes an indictment of the BoPs, or base taking and folks feel a need to defend themselves.
At the time, I said on 200 to Falc, that I thought it would make a good screenshot. It did. He laughed, I laughed, the world turned and no one really died.
LOL relax, I was having fun. They gave me a new plane.
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He had to HO to make sure none of the other 14 guys got the kill.
Well i come to this discussion as having formally been a B.O.P. and having flown missions with and against them since.
when you invade a base with 110's the point is to avoid the furball. most planes can easily out speed out climb and out turn the lumbering 110 without much issue. to allow your opponent to pass you on the merge is to lead to an almost certain death for the 110 pilot. his guns have great range and good alignment so the advantage in the 110 is the HO. is this not what would be considered good acm for a 110 pilot? to attack at your advantage with the longer reach and better targeting of the 110, before your opponent rolls in behind you for the easy kill?
keep in mind these missions are NOE, giving the 110's nowhere to go if he missed his shot. no way to gather more speed or to maneuver in an effective manner.
i upped at a base as the B.O.P's invaded it one night, it was a sight. there were over 20 planes in the invading force. as i ran at the group i was lucky enough to avoid the few sent in my direction to quell the base and made it into the pack at the town. being in a KI-84 i had much better speed and turning capabilities than the monstrous 110's. i managed to damage 3 and down 2 (mostly i think due directly to the advantage that kill shooter gave me being in the middle of them) before i spied the C-47 in bound. i took off after it and got a couple of hits into it before being torn to pieces by its escorts. in all, including my interference in the attack the base was captured in less than 3 minutes from the time i spotted them till "BASE #### HAS BEEN CAPTURED BY THE BISHOP"S" appeared. although i was their opponent, i was impressed with the precision of the attack.
The fastest that i have ever personally witnessed was when i was a B.O.P., it was 1minute 47 seconds from first shot fired to capture. that base had 5 planes defending it. they and the town were overwhelmed and put down in the first pass. use to have the film but it was awhile ago and those films stopped working after one of the updates so i erased it.
anyone i have encountered flying a 110 has without fail gone for the HO. any 110 pilot who does not use the tactic and is flying without close in air support is virtually guaranteed a quick trip to the tower.
and do not attack just the B.O.P.'s with the horde accusation. i see this far more often from the Rooks and Knights than i ever do with the Bishop's. most Bishop's cant get their heads out of their arses to create and initiate let alone accomplish a mission of this magnitude.
i do agree though, if they did this type of flying more than just the once every week or two weeks that they actually do it, well that would cripple the fun in the game for many players. so its an issue that i am torn over. it has its pluses and its minuses. i guess my only input would be moderation.
So i <SALUTE> the B.O.P.'s for their success and hope to fly with and against you again in the future.
Good Luck and Happy Hunting B.O.P.'s!!!!!!
FLOTSOM
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Well i come to this discussion as having formally been a B.O.P. and having flown missions with and against them since.
when you invade a base with 110's the point is to avoid the furball. most planes can easily out speed out climb and out turn the lumbering 110 without much issue. to allow your opponent to pass you on the merge is to lead to an almost certain death for the 110 pilot. his guns have great range and good alignment so the advantage in the 110 is the HO. is this not what would be considered good acm for a 110 pilot? to attack at your advantage with the longer reach and better targeting of the 110, before your opponent rolls in behind you for the easy kill?
FLOTSOM
Thats where I disagree with you. The 110 is a great dogfighter you just have to get past the urge to HO everything in sight. The guns in the 110 dont have a long reach and arent that easy to target with. The 110 isnt the uberest plane in the game when it comes to dogfighting but you seem to think its some death trap. Clearly you have never gone up agenst someone who has skill in a 110.
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Thats where I disagree with you. The 110 is a great dogfighter you just have to get past the urge to HO everything in sight. The guns in the 110 dont have a long reach and arent that easy to target with. The 110 isnt the uberest plane in the game when it comes to dogfighting but you seem to think its some death trap. Clearly you have never gone up agenst someone who has skill in a 110.
i dont know about that, i just easily killed a 110 with one of thebest sticks in game, we where at same alt. and hewanted to dogfight,lasted about 45 seconds before he went boom, 110 in the right hands is deadly but so is every other plane!!
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So who was it?
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Well BoSoXFan i have killed targets at 1000 out clean. long before they could get in close enough to do damage to me. those nose fired cannons work very well at targeting at that range, just a little raise to the nose and i start to tap the trigger at the 1k mark. they fly into it before they even realize that im firing. the tactic has worked well for me whenever i have used it.
on multiple occassions i have engaged a 110 attacking a base i was at, the only time i have ever been downed by one was by the HO. i am certain that you are correct and that there are those select few pilots with the skill to be able to give a fighter jocky a run for its money, and i would suspect that the majority of those few would be B.O.P.'s.
<SALUTE>
FLOTSOM
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Sure you can always raise the nose and start spraying from 1000 out but you can do that with any plane. Hell Iv out Hoed a 262 with my 109K4 before. I out a 30mm right in his cockpit from more then 800 out. Only thing is that most other planes don't have such a big gun pack. You see that a lot with nikis, 190A8s, hurris, and typhs to but that isn't what makes any difference. Were those multiple occasions people coming into pork with the big gun pack on like a noob? Iv never really got into a fight with a BoP without getting buzzed by the rest of the gang but just because you can take down buildings with it doesn't make you good in it. What makes you good is flying it looking for those who think all it can do is HO and wonder how the hell you out maneuver them and send them to the tower.
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I used to jump in all the big base grabbing missions. Then I realized I was just blowing up buildings that don't fight back, vulching, and dying quickly to any enemy plane that had a clue about ACM's.
People who don't want to take the time to learn how to properly fly and engage contact with the enemy love to hide in a horde.
Even better are the horde organizers I've seen who simply follow along at alt and pick anything that gets caught up fighting multiple bogies in the horde.
I'm about down to squad nights, FSO, and Scenarios as far as what I want to fly. The MA has lost appeal. Half of each country is simply avoiding the other hordes to steal bases and give each other wtg's.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....BORI NG!
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Try and look at it like this fugitive..
When going into a base,when cons start upping,they are not looking for the "FIGHT",they have only ONE objective,"FIND THE GOON"..This is their primary goal.This means they are streaming past as many as possible to get to where they think it may be..hence as many as possible will try and get him,as someone may have enough E to get on him and kill him,if he does not get HO'ed first...
I would like to think that many times,if someone hollers on vox CON LOW INTO TOWN,that many who are not close will turn and work on that con and break off from another in which 4-6 may already be chasing...
Falcon23 :salute
No argument from me Falcon23!
Give that man a watch!
If you up from a capped field your trip back to the tower can be measured in seconds!
If a mission has only one set of troops inbound, I would HO, ram or pick... whatever it takes to get the troops to the objective.
To some, the base capture aspect of AH is how THEY have fun. Just because the furballers or toolshreders like to get their jollys in a different manner doesn't make it "wrong". Not every player has spent thousands of hours perfecting their fighter skills. There is enough room in the game for all "mindsets".
Last time I was in the DA I seem to remember that it was all about fighters...
Kudos for trying to save your base though!
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I love (lots of) Jugs. :cool:
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Sure you can always raise the nose and start spraying from 1000 out but you can do that with any plane. Hell Iv out Hoed a 262 with my 109K4 before. I out a 30mm right in his cockpit from more then 800 out.............Iv never really got into a fight with a BoP without getting buzzed by the rest of the gang but just because you can take down buildings with it doesn't make you good in it. What makes you good is flying it looking for those who think all it can do is HO and wonder how the hell you out maneuver them and send them to the tower.
First i said tapping the trigger, a couple of quick controlled burst. this is not a spray and pray tactic. as 110's guns are all in the nose you need not worry about the diffusion of a burst over distance as you would with a fighter that has the convergence set for between 2 and 300. so targeting is improved without filling the sky with random bursts of unaimed shots.
Jetsom has killed a 262 with a hurricane, i have wounded one in a hurricane and i am very sure that others who are good in what they ride kill them often and with ease, whether they are cannon equipped or not. so because you HOed one once, and got lucky proves nothing. it only dilutes the conversation.
If you have never really gotten into a fight with a BOP without getting buzzed by the rest, then you have never really fought "A BOP". you engaged them when they were either attacking or defending a base with a mission goal preset. While i was a BOP i was on more than one occasion called off by USranger, Pony, Falconwing and others of experience and skill, when dropping into a fight between one of those above named and an enemy con. but these are random encounters, or fights that broke away from the main thrust or defense of a base. With the BOP's the mission comes first, this is how they operate. if you get in the way you get a free ticket to the tower.
i agree, you get better with experience. but the plane has its limits.
if you are a good stick in the 110 personally, then if you see me on some night and you are willing to teach, ask me to go to the DA or the TA. i love the lumbering hulk and would happily learn how to utilize it to its utmost from an experienced pilot.
FLOTSOM
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Speak for yourself bud.
I want up to fight. Biggest red dar bar means more to shoot at or shoot at me. If taking the base is all you are after so be it, but don't justify the HO'ing and the horde by blaming the poor 38G driver who went up to fight :)
You know you're gonna get picked, or Ho'd, or ganged with 15 on 1...
I usually up in these odds, to get as many down as I can, reup and hopefully get to a goon...
Seeing how long I can stay alive is a fun game too! :lol
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Forget the goon... forget the base... I'll up for the fight. Now if all I run into are folks that only have one move.. the HO.. I'll soon change to another field.
I simply look at the Ho as the other pilot conceding that you are much better than him before he even tries a move.
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I simply look at the Ho as the other pilot conceding that you are much better than him before he even tries a move.
So on the night that Skyrock HOed me and then on 200 text me and said "sorry for the HO but i was desperate" means i am a better pilot? i disagree.
i caught him low in a dead stall without E and at every disadvantage possible, his only chance as he flopped over sideways was a head on shot as i dropped at him. if he hadn't fired he would have been toast. he had no ability to turn to move to evade before i would have been on him.
to me this is a combatant not giving up, but winning.
i thanked him for his compliment, that a noob like me got lucky enough to catch him in a disadvantage and force him to use a tactic he despises. i might have been the one in the tower but the compliment, made on 200, was worth more than the kill.
so to think that because someone HO's is a consession of his lack of skill or acm is a foolish statement. i would seriously doubt that you have never HOed someone in your history, so would that make you skilless as well?
each flies as they choose, and deploys the tactics that suits them and the situation best. the BOP's fight for the group mission others fight for the personal accomplishments and others still fight for.......well whatever the hell they are doing they are doing it the way they choose.
if you are worried about getting HOed from a BOP 110, then don't up from a base with a 110 mission inbound. take off from somewhere else and maybe, unlikely, but just maybe you'll get there before the base is taken.
FLOTSOM
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Appreciate the folks who get it :aok
BoPs fly all types of missions....people dont like the NOE takes but so be it...bottom line in those missions is protect the goon so brace yourself to die (i apologize in advance if its not in the way you wanted to die in :pray) If there are NOE missions designed to furball let me know :huh
As for the ex-BoPs :aok Once a BoP always a BoP brother :salute
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As for the ex-BoPs :aok Once a BoP always a BoP brother :salute
AYE :salute :salute :salute
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As for the HO...I went for the most expeditious means of getting you out of the way...removing the threat to our troops as they were approaching town.
This was a "standard" BoP Smash and Grab base cap. Speed is of the essence, it's not that we don't like to furball...many of us do. But as stated earlier we go out with a mission goal and do our damnedest to accomplish that. We often look for furballs, if thats what we plan on doing that particular mission. Most squad nite missions are base caps or base defense. If you're on a BoPs 6...and it's Monday night, better check ur 6 cause there's probably 1/3rd of the squad chasing you. It's all about saving your squaddies A#$.
Juast because I went for the HO doesn't mean I don't know how to furball...was just the quickest/easiest way......anyone on that mission in my position would have done to protect the troops.
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As for the HO...I went for the most expeditious means of getting you out of the way...removing the threat to our troops as they were approaching town.
This was a "standard" BoP Smash and Grab base cap. Speed is of the essence, it's not that we don't like to furball...many of us do. But as stated earlier we go out with a mission goal and do our damnedest to accomplish that. We often look for furballs, if thats what we plan on doing that particular mission. Most squad nite missions are base caps or base defense. If you're on a BoPs 6...and it's Monday night, better check ur 6 cause there's probably 1/3rd of the squad chasing you. It's all about saving your squaddies A#$.
Juast because I went for the HO doesn't mean I don't know how to furball...was just the quickest/easiest way......anyone on that mission in my position would have done to protect the troops.
....ahhh but do you try to accomplish that goal with skill, or dweebery? It just seems to me that the "dweebary" part of the mission plan is what "could" give the Bops a bad name. Just something to think about.
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Well, this stuff comes up year after year, and year after year it still is the same. AH BBS discussions such as this have yet to prove effective in changing habits on any side.
As for the term "skill", what a laugh. I have little "skill" here, because I have little spare time to play. Looking beyond the term "skill" is the word "fun", and that's why I play.
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Oh my, we committed "dweebery". How awful. (http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5816/bagmp1.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
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LOL my apologies for posting the screenie and stirring things up.
As I said in a previous post, I joked with Falconwing at the time that I thought it would make a good screenshot. It did. He laughed, I laughed, I gave JollyFE grief for the HO shot when there were so many 110s pointed at me.
It just wasn't that big a deal other then being funny.
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It just wasn't that big a deal other then being funny.
AGREED :rofl :rofl :rofl :salute
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Appreciate the folks who get it :aok
BoPs fly all types of missions....people dont like the NOE takes but so be it...bottom line in those missions is protect the goon so brace yourself to die (i apologize in advance if its not in the way you wanted to die in :pray) If there are NOE missions designed to furball let me know :huh
As for the ex-BoPs :aok Once a BoP always a BoP brother :salute
<S> Falc
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....ahhh but do you try to accomplish that goal with skill, or dweebery? It just seems to me that the "dweebary" part of the mission plan is what "could" give the Bops a bad name. Just something to think about.
I'm speechless (for once)
:rofl
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^
l
l
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WHAT A DWEEB!!!!!!!!!!
HE EVEN STOLE MY AVATAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I remember you saying it on 200 right afterward. All in fun bro. :)
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everyone has to be good at something
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LOL my apologies for posting the screenie and stirring things up.
As I said in a previous post, I joked with Falconwing at the time that I thought it would make a good screenshot. It did. He laughed, I laughed, I gave JollyFE grief for the HO shot when there were so many 110s pointed at me.
It just wasn't that big a deal other then being funny.
I agree its a funny shot, and I've been in that position before. After the HO, I just move on to the next fight, no big deal.
The only reason I posted what I did was to point out that this kind of behavior is one of the things that got the arenas split. The Bops, as well as the other big squads are the ones who CAN dictate how the arena grows, or fails. I'm not trying to single out the Bops, for the most part they are a great bunch of guys, I just think that those who have the "ability" to control things in the game should have the "responsibility" to lead things in a positive direction, not toward the slums arenas we had before.
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....ahhh but do you try to accomplish that goal with skill, or dweebery? It just seems to me that the "dweebary" part of the mission plan is what "could" give the Bops a bad name. Just something to think about.
Well we've heard this story before. You talking skill and just what is your skill gonna do for ya? We don't care about "dweebery", or we'd be pitching a bunch of anguish about all the times we've been ganged and ho'd and such. It just don't matter to us as we play for the fun and not the skill. I'm not gonna criticize you for your style of play and we expect not to be for our style. We don't game the game for score nor do we just whord for the sake of doing it. Most of us have flown together for years and I mean back to the old AW days of old. I come here to relax among friends and relieve some frustrations of the real world life, not to worry about skill.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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LOL my apologies for posting the screenie and stirring things up.
As I said in a previous post, I joked with Falconwing at the time that I thought it would make a good screenshot. It did. He laughed, I laughed, I gave JollyFE grief for the HO shot when there were so many 110s pointed at me.
It just wasn't that big a deal other then being funny.
Lol Corky, don't sweat it bro! This comes up usually whenever any post has anything with BOP in it. We got it but some of the camp followers just didn't. You've always been a class act <S>.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1