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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Newman5 on October 27, 2008, 06:30:01 PM

Title: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 27, 2008, 06:30:01 PM
Say it Ain't So...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,250573.msg3083698.html#msg3083698
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Motherland on October 27, 2008, 06:34:33 PM
Can't say I'm not surprised, I can, however, say I'm not disappointed. I would much rather see HTC put more time toward the existing game than a feature I would not have used.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2008, 06:40:09 PM
Bubi,

Explain?  Are you saying you wouldn't have flown CT?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: bobtom on October 27, 2008, 06:41:21 PM
I agree with Bubi.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Motherland on October 27, 2008, 06:41:26 PM
Probably not- I play Aces High because of the MMO aspect. I really don't enjoy fighting AI that much.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: mechanic on October 27, 2008, 06:42:06 PM
it cant really hurt losing something we didnt have. We love the flight sim so we play, CT would have just been a bonus that i wouldnt used often. Whats wrong with the current SEA setup?  Without the project we would not have had the offline mission editor. I'm not sucking up to HTC im just saying that if you only stayed because you were waiting for a totaly different game can you really blame HTC for changing their plans?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Banshee7 on October 27, 2008, 06:42:28 PM
Can't say I'm not surprised, I can, however, say I'm not disappointed. I would much rather see HTC put more time toward the existing game than a feature I would not have used.

Seconded

Explain?  Are you saying you wouldn't have flown CT?

Me personally...I probably wouldn't have either
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2008, 06:42:58 PM
I thought CT was also going to be MMO with some AI mixed in?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 27, 2008, 06:50:38 PM
I thought CT was also going to be MMO with some AI mixed in?

I thought that to, but could be wrong.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2008, 06:51:45 PM
Yup.  Sounds like sour grapes to me. :P
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Motherland on October 27, 2008, 06:55:10 PM
Yeah, read the overview again... forgot about the hotseating thing. Still... I'd rather have more planes and whatnot to be honest.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: BiPoLaR on October 27, 2008, 06:57:51 PM
With it not coming out (maybe). i know a few people that will be quitting the game now.
That was the ONLY reason they came back and stayed around.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 27, 2008, 07:00:39 PM
With it not coming out (maybe). i know a few people that will be quitting the game now.
That was the ONLY reason they came back and stayed around.

Yeah, I was afraid that this sentiment would seen from quite a few.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: mechanic on October 27, 2008, 07:01:49 PM
if you only stayed because you were waiting for a totaly different game can you really blame HTC for changing their plans?

 :aok


If a taxi firm said they would one day upgrade to Posche taxis, would you sit in a cab till they did?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: BiPoLaR on October 27, 2008, 07:07:08 PM
i see it this way.
Dont tease with it unless you plan on giving it.


i could care less about it coming out.
im having the best time in my life now.
thats why you dont see me on much anymore  :aok
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 27, 2008, 07:08:32 PM
:aok


If a taxi firm said they would one day upgrade to Posche taxis, would you sit in a cab till they did?

Very good point. 

I'm not going anywhere, but I know there were a lot of people looking forward to CT's unveiling.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: zoozoo on October 27, 2008, 07:10:45 PM
They better give us more planes then!  :furious
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: storch on October 27, 2008, 07:14:06 PM
maybe spending resources on an updated graphics engine would be better than the CT thing.  In my opinion the CT would have been stillborn anyway.  I really would love to see the game progress into the 21st century graphics wise
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: zoozoo on October 27, 2008, 07:15:19 PM
Add real water, update graphics, different terrains in MA.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: mechanic on October 27, 2008, 07:15:33 PM
true there Newman i couldnt argue with that.

BiP - I'm pretty sure they did intend to finish it at the start, it wasnt just a lure with no substance. Perhaps the start of a global economy crisis isnt the best time to try and launch a new business front?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: BiPoLaR on October 27, 2008, 07:19:55 PM
BiP - I'm pretty sure they did intend to finish it at the start, it wasnt just a lure with no substance. Perhaps the start of a global economy crisis isnt the best time to try and launch a new business front?

Im sure they had great intentions. But with the way things are now. It would be hard on them.
I think (personally) canning CT is a good idea.
I say improve the current game and piss on CT  :aok
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: BaldEagl on October 27, 2008, 07:21:10 PM
No disappointment here.  I don't think I'd have ever even tried it and I'd much rather see them focused on their core product.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: mechanic on October 27, 2008, 07:21:34 PM
yeah and while we are at it lets cook some crispy bacon
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 27, 2008, 07:31:21 PM
yeah and while we are at it lets cook some crispy bacon

<--remembers the classic "beans around the campfire" scene in Blazing Saddles....
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: moot on October 27, 2008, 07:32:15 PM
They better give us more planes then!  :furious
Let's get the entitlement bandwagon going...

Better graphics would be cool.. Simple and measured pixel shaders, e.g. subtle heat waves, bump-mapping, reflectivity maps (make the worn metal shine from the rest of the paint, anti-glare areas, etc), oil that actualy creeps from its leaks onto the cockpit, rather than appear all of a sudden, glowing tracers.. Make it all toggle-able.
Improve graphics like this, and go back to pumping out planes like they used to back in ~2000, and a lot of people would be satisfied.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Bronk on October 27, 2008, 07:43:40 PM
yeah and while we are at it lets cook some crispy bacon
Bacon sammiches??!!??
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: mensa180 on October 27, 2008, 07:47:22 PM
Let's get the entitlement bandwagon going...

Better graphics would be cool.. Simple and measured pixel shaders, e.g. subtle heat waves, bump-mapping, reflectivity maps (make the worn metal shine from the rest of the paint, anti-glare areas, etc), oil that actualy creeps from its leaks onto the cockpit, rather than appear all of a sudden, glowing tracers.. Make it all toggle-able.
Improve graphics like this, and go back to pumping out planes like they used to back in ~2000, and a lot of people would be satisfied.

That sounds great, I would really love those graphic improvements.  To be honest I'm thankful for whatever HT and crowd throws at me, and I have never really been so hyped at the thought of CT for this to be a major loss for me.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2008, 07:56:48 PM
Well, I'll come out and say I was looking forward to it.  The main arena concept just doesn't do it for me.  I don't see it as being much different than HT's Warbirds a decade ago.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: hubsonfire on October 27, 2008, 07:56:59 PM
I probably would have flown it, if only just to see how it was. I would much rather see their energies directed toward AH itself, and if some more things from CT can be added to AH (filling out Special Events, relegating the role of gun fodder to drones? Some of that nifty terrain stuff?), that would be great. Scenarios seem to be drawing hundreds regularly- maybe more, or facilitating the running of, SEA events could maybe fill the niche of more historical gameplay, without needing a separate entity?

Of course, it could be on the verge of release, and they're blowing smoke at us. I'd like to hear some official word, but until then... I guess we're just doing what we've been doing for years now- wondering aloud what's happening with CT.  :noid
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: PFactorDave on October 27, 2008, 07:57:51 PM
I wasn't really looking forward to CT anyway.  Especially if the AI stays in its current form.  Those AI pilots are able to do a few things that really don't seem quite kosher to me.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: moot on October 27, 2008, 08:01:04 PM
That sounds great, I would really love those graphic improvements.  To be honest I'm thankful for whatever HT and crowd throws at me, and I have never really been so hyped at the thought of CT for this to be a major loss for me.
Yeah we really don't need next gen graphics or ground breaking anything.. Just add a few subtle things and the graphics would be good enough.  The skins and models we have are already pretty good, they're just missing some better lighting and texture processing.  The planes themselves are already beautiful.

"replace one worry with another".. What could that mean?

I wasn't really looking forward to CT anyway.  Especially if the AI stays in its current form.  Those AI pilots are able to do a few things that really don't seem quite kosher to me.
e.g.?  Film?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 27, 2008, 08:05:02 PM
Any AI is going to "cheat", and if it doesn't it'll likely get pretty stale and predictable.

But we haven't likely heard the last of the AI. HT talked about eventually integrating it into scenarios or special events...where it could add a lot, especially when numbers are low (or when no one wants to be the bomber drones again!)
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: PFactorDave on October 27, 2008, 08:06:25 PM

e.g.?  Film?

They seem ignore g-force effects on the pilot.  I was fooling around with a Spit5 vs Spit5 mission that someone created.  I watched the AI push his nose over into what should have caused a massive red out.  I don't think I filmed the flight, if I get a chance later I'll try to reproduce the incident.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: hubsonfire on October 27, 2008, 08:10:09 PM
And they drive all over the field ala monster trucks, a technology not present in the 40s.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 27, 2008, 08:11:40 PM
They seem ignore g-force effects on the pilot.  I was fooling around with a Spit5 vs Spit5 mission that someone created.  I watched the AI push his nose over into what should have caused a massive red out.  I don't think I filmed the flight, if I get a chance later I'll try to reproduce the incident.

It's not that G forces are ignored -- its that the G force is a major scalable component of what makes the AI tough. Maximum tolerances weren't discussed, but HT did say that the G tolerance was randomized when the AI enters MA and assigned a G tolerance number + or - around some setpoint. I'd bet the low tolerance ones are downed faster, so the high tolerance ones get longer exposure to the MA population...which could give the impression of higher capability that's there on average.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: moot on October 27, 2008, 08:18:41 PM
Did I miss an episode or something?  Is it common knowledge that AI regularly flies in the MA nowadays?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: 442w30 on October 27, 2008, 08:25:57 PM
Im sure they had great intentions. But with the way things are now. It would be hard on them.
I think (personally) canning CT is a good idea.
I say improve the current game and piss on CT  :aok

I couldn't agree more   :salute
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 27, 2008, 08:31:59 PM
Did I miss an episode or something?  Is it common knowledge that AI regularly flies in the MA nowadays?

As far as I know, there was an appearance a few weeks ago. Not seen it myself, think its rrare
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: hubsonfire on October 27, 2008, 08:36:37 PM
HT has turned them loose in the MA a few times for testing, but I don't think it's a regular occurrence.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: bobtom on October 27, 2008, 08:38:07 PM
They better give us more planes then!  :furious

Like the HE-111!!
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: USRanger on October 27, 2008, 08:57:49 PM
Here's my question.  Don't be too hard on me because it's an honest one and not one of spite.  WHY has HTC kept their customers in total darkness for so long???  What do they gain?  No other company is trying to steal their idea.  Heck, IL-2 already has it.  I just don't get the whole secrecy bit when it comes to the people that are physically paying for it.  Seriously, this has always bothered me.  Why be so hush hush?  If they are too small a company to do it, why not ask some of the hundreds of compu-dweebs in our community for some ideas/help?  Have them sign a waiver stating they get no credit or money from it.  I'm sure plenty of people would still help where they could, if possible.  Why have hundreds of requests for updates gone ignored for years.  It just seems pretty damn rude to me.  Almost all of us are not school children and we've been treated as such imo.  I'm not dogging HTC.  I just don't understand the total lack of info that they've almost never supplied, even still to this day.  I don't care if CT ever comes out.  I can dang near create the same thing with the offline missions.  I guess all I can say is that if it's been scrapped, I would have a lot more respect for HTC if one of them would grab their pebbles and actually SAY IT instead of the ol' TOP SECRET M.O. they've been operating under for so long.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: A8TOOL on October 27, 2008, 09:14:10 PM
The comment about treating us like School children sounds about right. We're just a bunch bunch of nobodies.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Bronk on October 27, 2008, 09:15:59 PM
The comment about treating us like School children sounds about right.
Ahhh so you've read the bbs. :D
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: USRanger on October 27, 2008, 09:52:39 PM
My last post was not out of anger, just some frustration.  Ok, I am a paying customer.  I was told I would be getting such & such product from X company that is now waaay overdue.  Since my money is helping to pay for the research & development of such & such product, should I not expect even some small progress reports on said product?  I'm sure by law said company doesn't have to say squat.  But what about good manners?  Customer service?  Stuff like that.  I am an MA player that tinkers with all of what AH offers to mess with.  I'm happy with that.  Just giving an honest opinion from an average customer.  I meant no harm.

Please Skuzzy, don't flog a brutha  :pray
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2008, 10:00:48 PM
Most businesses believe it is better to obfuscate the truth to the bitter end than admit they messed something up. :P
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: moot on October 27, 2008, 10:09:57 PM
More entitlement... If what they have to say is better left unsaid...
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: LYNX on October 27, 2008, 11:25:20 PM
Firstly this is rumour so I'm not overly convinced until it's in black & white.  Secondly I played through Warbirds when they had 2 games, WBI & WBII, running simultaneously.  It killed WB and was my primary reason for moving here...and very pleased I did.

I posted back in the original CT thread announcement something like the following.  For CT to work it would have to be a boxed game with expensive marketing. Without masses of new players it's set to reduce the player base into 2 camps and because the arenas are both 1/2 empty many folk will stop subscribing.....aka WB.

Lets face it only geeks like us go out our way to find these games but the masses need leading to the trough. So without millions of dollars of marketing world wide, their (HTC) set to shoot themselves in the foot as WB's did.

I'm half tempted to speculate what they should / could do but there's really no point.  If and I say "IF" this rumour is true it'd be nice to have official confirmation but not having CT is no big deal for me.  I'll concure with some others...lets have some new addition like the HE111, that Italian job and stubby little rusky plane.  Even a fairy battle lol.  Oh! and stop the ability to have dive bombing heavy bombers.  :rolleyes: 
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: uptown on October 28, 2008, 06:52:27 AM
I gave up on it coming out long ago.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: The Fugitive on October 28, 2008, 07:08:02 AM
maybe they didn't even admit to themselves that it couldn't done right untill now? If that was the case, then they were not hiding anything because they still believed they could do it. Its like your buying a car, you do all that hunting around to find it, finance it and eveything all the while telling everyone you know your getting a new car. Then in the last hour something comes up and you can't get it. You weren't lieing to your friends all that time, you truly believed you were getting it. Sure you might take a bit of ribbing , but hey you didn't mean to cause any trouble. I'm thinking its something along those lines.

On the other hand, maybe they realized that there wasn't a big enough market to support the game. Its a cool idea, but I don't think I would ever played it. I'd rather get into a bunch of fights quick. I don't have time to spend building a character, or to work my way towards the planes and missions I'd think I'd like. Too many people "want things now" and I think that attitude would have killed that game due to the time involved to get into a better position in that game
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: moot on October 28, 2008, 07:59:07 AM
It's all speculation.. I think the formula was very promising.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 09:11:32 AM
Most businesses believe it is better to obfuscate the truth to the bitter end than admit they messed something up. :P

Well, in my experience, companies, especially ones that deal directly with their customer base as HTC does, or any company that provides a service rather that a product, benefits more by better clarity of communication.  Being obfuscatory, especially when dealing directly with the customer base on a personal level, is not beneficial to either party.  Most people can smell BS, and would prefer the straight truth, as opposed to having smoke and rays of sunshine blown up their ass.  The customer appreciates the honesty, the level of trust remains and customers will maintain a sense of fidelity about their favorite hobby (or service).
 
     If a plumber is honest with his customers and performs his craft with pride and dignity, the rewards will be loyal repeat customers that recommend others.  In this modern world, screwing or being dishonest with your customers is easily remedied by the consumer with the click of a mouse.  Someone is ALWAYS in the process of building a better mousetrap.

Having said that, I can't say that the lack of CT affects me that awful much, but possibly a formal announcement of its demise may be in order, rather than rumors of what someone may, or may not have heard at the convention.


As far as good intentions go?    We know what is paved with them and where it goes   (hint:  it's one of the few that do not lead to Rome)
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: opposum on October 28, 2008, 09:16:46 AM
i just wish HTC would speak up about it, I'm tired of being in the dark...........





Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 09:19:09 AM
Does this mean we can't use the "Two-Weeks" joke anymore?          :cry
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: SlapShot on October 28, 2008, 09:36:40 AM
Let's get the entitlement bandwagon going...

Better graphics would be cool.. Simple and measured pixel shaders, e.g. subtle heat waves, bump-mapping, reflectivity maps (make the worn metal shine from the rest of the paint, anti-glare areas, etc), oil that actualy creeps from its leaks onto the cockpit, rather than appear all of a sudden, glowing tracers.. Make it all toggle-able.
Improve graphics like this, and go back to pumping out planes like they used to back in ~2000, and a lot of people would be satisfied.

I had a long conversation with Dale ...

He is going to be seriously looking at bump-mapping, pixel shading, etc ... He really wants to concentrate on the "land" and "water" aspect to get the "world" looking better. He said that these are some of things that he can take advantage of without a huge "cost" incurred by implementing them.

To those who don't know and say that the graphics engine needs updating ... well it doesn't, or you using that term in the wrong context. HT wrote the current graphics engine from scratch ... Pyro said that they could have bought one, but HT wanted to do it himself. The graphic engine has all the bells and whistles in place, HT just needs to "turn" them on or take advantage of them ... and he probably will turn them on when he feels that a "change" will not exclude a huge part of the player base because of a change.

With that, I also had a long conversation with Waffle ... HTC constantly plays a "balancing" game with graphics/artwork ... they don't want to do things with a "Big Bang" approach ... they want to make changes subtly ... so as to not clobber a good part of their play base. Waffle and SuperFly do pay particular attention to the total amount of polygons to render their artwork. They could go crazy, but then that would result in a much larger download, and/or the need to increase the minimum specs to play the game. It is very important to them that this game be "downloadable" and not require a CD to install.

HTC, in my eyes, pays very much attention to the "lowest common denominator" and is very fickle about why and when they move that line.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: hubsonfire on October 28, 2008, 09:38:08 AM
But what was said about CT?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: SlapShot on October 28, 2008, 09:43:49 AM
maybe they didn't even admit to themselves that it couldn't done right untill now? If that was the case, then they were not hiding anything because they still believed they could do it. Its like your buying a car, you do all that hunting around to find it, finance it and eveything all the while telling everyone you know your getting a new car. Then in the last hour something comes up and you can't get it. You weren't lieing to your friends all that time, you truly believed you were getting it. Sure you might take a bit of ribbing , but hey you didn't mean to cause any trouble. I'm thinking its something along those lines.

On the other hand, maybe they realized that there wasn't a big enough market to support the game. Its a cool idea, but I don't think I would ever played it. I'd rather get into a bunch of fights quick. I don't have time to spend building a character, or to work my way towards the planes and missions I'd think I'd like. Too many people "want things now" and I think that attitude would have killed that game due to the time involved to get into a better position in that game

HT said that is is simply a "resource" issue.

SuperFly and Waffle are the only artist right now ... so to do all the artwork that would be needed to finish CT and also keep AHII alive and looking good ... just those 2 guys can't do it alone and maybe at this time HTC does not have the capital to employee more artists that would not be needed "after" the lions share of the CT artwork is done ... the per hour cost of contracted artists would probably be very steep.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 09:49:16 AM
Transcripts of your interviews?      :D
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Max on October 28, 2008, 09:50:37 AM
Does this mean we can't use the "Two-Weeks" joke anymore?          :cry

That's correct....but you must wait two weeks before you stop using it.  :huh
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 09:51:43 AM
Traditional 2-weeks, or HTC version?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: waystin2 on October 28, 2008, 09:56:43 AM
Can't say I'm not surprised, I can, however, say I'm not disappointed. I would much rather see HTC put more time toward the existing game than a feature I would not have used.

I agree Motherland.  The possibility of CT was not what drew me here, nor what keeps me here.  Now more resources can be focused on AH!
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: SlapShot on October 28, 2008, 09:59:59 AM
Oh! and stop the ability to have dive bombing heavy bombers.  :rolleyes: 

I specifically brought this up during the Q & A ... which didn't get much of a response from HT and Pyro because they didn't think that there was anything wrong with the way they have the bombers modeled ... If I understood HT correctly, anything past 15 degrees dive (on certain bombers) the bombs should not be released.

I could count on one hand the amount of times I have actually upped a bomber, so I have no personal experience of whether bombs can be released in a dive steeper than 15 degrees, but I did say that from what I have personally seen watching bombers dive in on a CV, some appeared to be steeper than 15 degrees.

After pressing the point, Pyro said that he would look at the "numbers" ... so, if you or anyone can provide film of bombers (I would think "level" type bombers ... B17, B24, etc) going past the 15 degree mark and releasing bombs ... that just might be a "nudge" for Pyro.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 10:08:57 AM
I would think that, in such a die-hard community as this one, populated with people who are, for the most part, fairly creative and computer savvy, that the player base would be tapped more deeply.

There are plenty of talented guys/gals that have the skills to offer.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: LYNX on October 28, 2008, 10:55:29 AM
I specifically brought this up during the Q & A ... which didn't get much of a response from HT and Pyro because they didn't think that there was anything wrong with the way they have the bombers modeled ... If I understood HT correctly, anything past 15 degrees dive (on certain bombers) the bombs should not be released.

I could count on one hand the amount of times I have actually upped a bomber, so I have no personal experience of whether bombs can be released in a dive steeper than 15 degrees, but I did say that from what I have personally seen watching bombers dive in on a CV, some appeared to be steeper than 15 degrees.

After pressing the point, Pyro said that he would look at the "numbers" ... so, if you or anyone can provide film of bombers (I would think "level" type bombers ... B17, B24, etc) going past the 15 degree mark and releasing bombs ... that just might be a "nudge" for Pyro.

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/DLancs.jpg)

 If their contention is 15 degree then the screen shot above must be scotch mist.  This is one of the biggest grips of AH.  May as well be a shark with a frikin lazier beam strapped to it's head for all the authenticity these Lancaster's can do.   :rolleyes:

This "problem" has been repeatedly hashed out on the boards.  Films and screen shot of this going on.  I can only assume a few things as to why it's ALLOWED to happen. 
1)It's a crutch for the newbies to help them think they're contributing to the team
2)It's that far embedded in some kind of base code that they'd have to rewrite watermelon loads of planes.

I'm not buying this 15 degree malarkey.  Bit insulting to ones intelligence if that's the official line.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Lusche on October 28, 2008, 11:04:26 AM
I specifically brought this up during the Q & A ... which didn't get much of a response from HT and Pyro because they didn't think that there was anything wrong with the way they have the bombers modeled ... If I understood HT correctly, anything past 15 degrees dive (on certain bombers) the bombs should not be released.

You can release bombs at any angle, even when flying your Lancaster inverted:

(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6777/clipboard01or9.jpg)

Did this 3 mins ago ;)
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: NHawk on October 28, 2008, 11:08:24 AM
You can release bombs at any angle, even when flying your Lancaster inverted:

(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6777/clipboard01or9.jpg)

Did this 3 mins ago ;)
I just sent 2 films to Skuzzy. One of a B17G absolutely vertical. And one of a Lancaster near vertical. Both released their bombs.

In both films, if the bombs were released they should have been banging into the back of the pilot seat or knocking the tail off. :)
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Rash on October 28, 2008, 11:13:51 AM
I thought he said the drones would not follow the lead bomber past 15 degrees?  I didn't hear the part about the bombs not being able to be dropped past 15 degrees.  
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 11:14:58 AM
Drones will follow their leader through an immelman, but not through a hard flat turn.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: dentin on October 28, 2008, 11:19:51 AM
Most businesses believe it is better to obfuscate the truth to the bitter end than admit they messed something up. :P

Yeah, and the end result is the person/s on the bottom of the "Totem Pole" gets the pole relocated to a most undesirable place on his/her anatomy.  :furious  If your happy with the "status quo" ..stick around, if NOT, keep your money in yer Wallet.  :devil
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: PFactorDave on October 28, 2008, 11:28:24 AM
In the interest of "seeing for myself"...  I just did this in a Lanc.  I'd say dropping at more then a 15 degree angle is certainly quite possible.  I doubt I could hit anything doing this, but my dive bombing skills are lacking anyway.

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/LancStukaGreaterThan15degreeDrop.jpg)

By the way, after that release, I was able to very easily pull out of the dive.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: caddie on October 28, 2008, 11:31:57 AM
One of the main reasons I joined AH almost a year ago was because of the upcoming CT. Sounded intriguing. I have also learned to love AHII as well. I agree we should not be left in the dark. Let us know...... I do feel that HT is to conservative when making decisions on graphics/eye candy/game play improvements. There are numerous games released that can run smoothly on older rigs that have great graphics engines. Of course I do not know the whole story, So there could be tons of inside info I am not aware of that would change my point of view. I hope an official word comes out at some point here soon.

Caddie
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: mechanic on October 28, 2008, 11:35:59 AM
15 degrees? LOL you can realese bombs flying inverted in any plane. My personal favorite is a long slow aileron roll in B26s whilst unloading vast ammounts of 100lb bombs on my own runway before finding someone silly enough to try and ho me.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Westy on October 28, 2008, 11:50:12 AM
 One aspect of what I call the "romper room" atmosphere of the MA.  FWIW the "heavy bombers diving" stuff is definitely one of those things which has remained and has helped drive people who want more immersion away. 

 So CT is dead.  That sucks. 

 Anyone have any tips on where to play IL2 and what versions/mods etc...

 Thanks and <S> ...  laters
 
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: SlapShot on October 28, 2008, 11:53:13 AM
I'm not buying this 15 degree malarkey.  Bit insulting to ones intelligence if that's the official line.

I was forthcoming with what I was told ... and posting what I was told, was not meant for anyone to get pissy about what I was told.

I have a pretty good sense of when someone is trying to BS me, and I did not get the impression that what they told me was "malarkey" or trying to pull the wool over my eyes ... nor did I feel insulted ... it was a genuine response.

From the pics that you have posted, hopefully Pyro will see them (maybe you should email them to Pyro/HTC) and hopefully something can/will be done about it ... he seemed pretty open to it.

I grabbed their ear about the problem ... they responded that it would be looked into ... that is far better response than I have seen anywhere posted about this problem on the BBS ... so lets not take an aggressive stance, but rather a helpful and informing stance.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 11:55:43 AM
It is much harder to blow off a customer in person, as opposed to on a forum..............

What I find amusing, is the amount of folks waving goodbye, when there has been no official statement from the producers of the game.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 11:58:28 AM
It is much harder to blow off a customer in person, as opposed to on a forum..............

What I find amusing, is the amount of folks waving goodbye, when there has been no official statement from the producers of the game.

There's not going to be an official statement.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 12:00:24 PM
There's not going to be an official statement.

Did you hear that at the convention?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: 715 on October 28, 2008, 12:03:19 PM
He really wants to concentrate on the "land" and "water" aspect to get the "world" looking better.

I vote enthusiastically for that.  I'm getting tired of looking at the same few terrain tiles, same buildings and same trees.  Just give the terrain designers some more different tiles and objects to work with.  With greater diversity they could come up with less repetitive terrains.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 12:05:16 PM
Did you hear that at the convention?

That's just my hypothesis.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: NoBaddy on October 28, 2008, 12:07:09 PM
The 15 degrees was about drones...not bombs.

...back to the thread...

HT did not "bury" CT. He did state that at this time, they felt that they did not have the resources to complete CT AND support AH properly.

I have seen a bunch of folks posting here about AH compared to CT. Doing so is like comparing "old maid" to "poker"....both use cards......and that's about it. :) CT is not designed or expected to be a replacement for AH or an alternative. It's aimed at a whole new segment of the gaming community for HTC...the RPG player.

I'm surprised at how many veteran players are posting about this and don't seem to have a clue about the goals of HTC in creating CT. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/confused004.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org) It's not like HT kept it a secret. No one has a "right" to feel betrayed. No "promises" were made.....and none were broken.

It is much harder to blow off a customer in person, as opposed to on a forum..............

What I find amusing, is the amount of folks waving goodbye, when there has been no official statement from the producers of the game.

Well, "officially" HT annouced to 50+ people (in person) that CT was being moved to the "back burner". Sounded pretty "official" to me. :)



Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 12:10:56 PM
Well, "officially" HT annouced to 50+ people (in person) that CT was being moved to the "back burner". Sounded pretty "official" to me. :)

"Official" is posted on the HTC homepage.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: opposum on October 28, 2008, 12:21:26 PM
There's not going to be an official statement.

then the question is why isn't there going to be an official statment? why can't they just tell us     theirself?    why?...............




Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 12:35:35 PM
Because marketing is all about message control.  If it doesn't reflect positively on the business, it's better left unsaid.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 01:01:42 PM
Because marketing is all about message control.  If it doesn't reflect positively on the business, it's better left unsaid.

Give that man a cigar.   :aok
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: LYNX on October 28, 2008, 01:42:13 PM
I was forthcoming with what I was told ... and posting what I was told, was not meant for anyone to get pissy about what I was told.

I have a pretty good sense of when someone is trying to BS me, and I did not get the impression that what they told me was "malarkey" or trying to pull the wool over my eyes ... nor did I feel insulted ... it was a genuine response.

From the pics that you have posted, hopefully Pyro will see them (maybe you should email them to Pyro/HTC) and hopefully something can/will be done about it ... he seemed pretty open to it.

I grabbed their ear about the problem ... they responded that it would be looked into ... that is far better response than I have seen anywhere posted about this problem on the BBS ... so lets not take an aggressive stance, but rather a helpful and informing stance.

One would never imagine from all the threads HTC and staff read that they are not aware of this situation.  One would imagine they have never test flown their product or observed it's use within the game.... malarkey!

Not being code savi I would have thought the easy easy fix would be F6 bombsite view for bombs away.  I started a thread some 5 years ago about this and someone linked an older prior thread which said back then "they'll be looking into it". 

Just for you personally to know what I'm getting at by saying F6 view to drop bombs.  When you enter F6 heavy bombs go into auto level (X on the keyboard).  If you dive Lancs, B17's and the like then press F6, quite often the stress to the air frame snaps the wings off as it auto levels.  (i must test this to see if the bombs actually drop as the bomber folds up)

My train of thought is rather than have to recode bomb release angles and so on, just code into these particular planes that you HAVE TO BE IN F6 before the bombs will drop.   When the xbox / gameboy crew get to realise their LancStuka folds up less will be inclined to game the game.   This will still allow the heavies to use extreme evasives when they are attacked but will inhibit their ability to drop their bombs in an over steep or too fast a dive.  A "kiss" solution.

As for CT if it is dead (conjecture and rumour) then long live Aces High II.

EDIT couldn't reproduce the folding effect in the training arena.  Perhaps it needs looking at more thoroughly.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Wingnutt on October 28, 2008, 01:56:06 PM
I had a long conversation with Dale ...

He is going to be seriously looking at bump-mapping, pixel shading, etc ... He really wants to concentrate on the "land" and "water" aspect to get the "world" looking better. He said that these are some of things that he can take advantage of without a huge "cost" incurred by implementing them.

To those who don't know and say that the graphics engine needs updating ... well it doesn't, or you using that term in the wrong context. HT wrote the current graphics engine from scratch ... Pyro said that they could have bought one, but HT wanted to do it himself. The graphic engine has all the bells and whistles in place, HT just needs to "turn" them on or take advantage of them ... and he probably will turn them on when he feels that a "change" will not exclude a huge part of the player base because of a change.

With that, I also had a long conversation with Waffle ... HTC constantly plays a "balancing" game with graphics/artwork ... they don't want to do things with a "Big Bang" approach ... they want to make changes subtly ... so as to not clobber a good part of their play base. Waffle and SuperFly do pay particular attention to the total amount of polygons to render their artwork. They could go crazy, but then that would result in a much larger download, and/or the need to increase the minimum specs to play the game. It is very important to them that this game be "downloadable" and not require a CD to install.

HTC, in my eyes, pays very much attention to the "lowest common denominator" and is very fickle about why and when they move that line.

An update of the terrain and effects would do more for this game than any 10 additional aircraft IMO.  No doubt some people still will have to be dragged, kicking and screaming im sure, into the 20th century.  People will cry and scream that they can no longer run the game well on their Pentium 3 400 with 64mb of ram and on board video, and will be forced to update their gear..  but Im sure just like pulling a tooth, they will feel better after its all over with.

Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Furball on October 28, 2008, 02:04:18 PM
In my opinion, they should scrap CT if they haven't already and concentrate on scenarios.

They are the best part of AH by far.  The immersion, camaraderie, strategy and AARs from scearios makes them really special.

I think they should concentrate each update on one scenario to fill the planeset, and upon launch (or shortly after to iron out plane bugs) begin a scenario with it.

If i wanted to battle AI i would play IL2.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Furball on October 28, 2008, 02:06:36 PM
In the interest of "seeing for myself"...  I just did this in a Lanc.  I'd say dropping at more then a 15 degree angle is certainly quite possible.  I doubt I could hit anything doing this, but my dive bombing skills are lacking anyway.

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/LancStukaGreaterThan15degreeDrop.jpg)

By the way, after that release, I was able to very easily pull out of the dive.

Ever seen a Lanc bomb bay?  The bombs are not stacked like in a B-17 or 24.  It wouldn't surprise me if the bombs would release as long as you are not pulling negative G in a dive.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 28, 2008, 02:08:31 PM
I was forthcoming with what I was told ... and posting what I was told, was not meant for anyone to get pissy about what I was told.

I have a pretty good sense of when someone is trying to BS me, and I did not get the impression that what they told me was "malarkey" or trying to pull the wool over my eyes ... nor did I feel insulted ... it was a genuine response.

From the pics that you have posted, hopefully Pyro will see them (maybe you should email them to Pyro/HTC) and hopefully something can/will be done about it ... he seemed pretty open to it.

I grabbed their ear about the problem ... they responded that it would be looked into ... that is far better response than I have seen anywhere posted about this problem on the BBS ... so lets not take an aggressive stance, but rather a helpful and informing stance.


Listening to that same Q and A -- I had a different impression about what they were trying to say.

1. I understood the 15 degrees to refer to the angle at which the DRONES would not follow. Didn't think they were talking about the drop angle at all for that portion of the answer.

2. To my ear, HT seemed to be emphasizing that the issue wasn't one of modelling as much as it was one of player behavior, and that the core problem was the KAMIKAZE attack. In other words, the problem is that some players absolutely don not care about dying in that kind of attack, and that THATs where our attention should be placed.

3. HT absolutely was solicitiing any information the player base could produce about G load tolerances and actual test data for the airframes in question. Their pattern has been absolutely clear -- they feel they cannot rely on anecdotal evidence, but that they will take objective historical test data very seriously.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 28, 2008, 02:10:47 PM
Ever seen a Lanc bomb bay?  The bombs are not stacked like in a B-17 or 24.  It wouldn't surprise me if the bombs would release as long as you are not pulling negative G in a dive.

Furball --\

Exactly true. In the past Dale has said that he does NOT want to kluge some workaround to model bomb bays, but that when the time comes he wants to do complete modelllng that will include variations in bay architecture...and the effects of G loading that allow toss bombing, etc.

I don't anticipate any modelling of bays until they're ready to do it right. (I can link to a long thread on this topic when I have time to search for it.)
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Furball on October 28, 2008, 02:21:33 PM
Been looking for reports of a B-17 dropping bombs in a dive.  Apparently a 'Major Bernard Schriever' attacked Japanese shipping in Harbour by divebombing after taking damage.  I can find it mentioned but not a specific report.

Not sure of the accuracy of this though... Destroying a battleship?   :confused:

http://www.dba-oracle.com/louis_f_burleson.htm

Quote
Major Bernard Schriever, a newly-minted Major fresh from Graduate school at Stanford University, joined the 19th bomb group in Australia and directed Burleson’s effort to perfect the flare racks.  In less than 90-days Schriever recommended Louis Burleson for an officer’s commission.  Schriever was the pilot of Louis Burleson’s crew on a famous bombing raid there Schriever used the B-17 as a dive bomber, destroying Japanese battleship in an act of extreme heroism.  This recollection is from an article about General Schriever in “Air Force” magazine:


General Bernard Schriever
 “They flew in a formation of about a dozen B-17s in a night raid on Rabaul. Their airplane carried the flares and half the regular bomb load. The flare system worked well, but Schriever wanted to check on the bombing results, so they made another circuit over the target area. Flak was heavy but ineffective at the 10,000-foot altitude from which they were bombing.

As they turned, the No. 3 engine burst into a ball of flames. Dougherty, in the left seat, feathered the prop and shut the engine down. They still had bombs on board but did not want to set up another bombing approach. A quick conference on the intercom led to a decision: They would dive-bomb the ships in the harbor.”
 

The books i have read suggest that the B-17 bomb shackles could be a bit of a PITA for releasing bombs, i would like to know how they would react with dive angle, but i guess with an aircraft that really does not matter as it is g-force which counts: -

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc9XvmjY

Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 02:30:10 PM
I think they should concentrate each update on one scenario to fill the planeset, and upon launch (or shortly after to iron out plane bugs) begin a scenario with it.

Absolutely, but I doubt that will happen.  Look at the way aircraft are added to AH.  It's more about arena play than filling in gaps for scenarios.  Otherwise we'd already have the He-111.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Iron_Cross on October 28, 2008, 03:30:35 PM
Gentlemen,

From the reports, posted from the Convention, their are a lot of little "Garage" projects floating around on the back burner due to resource issues.  That, coupled with CT, means their is not enough resources to pursue any project, including CT.  Hitech, has been reported at the Con, as wanting to bring these "Garage" projects forward, and improve MA play.  He has not ash-canned CT, but rather put it in the freezer, until these other projects are done, and he can focus again on CT, when more resources are available.

This sounds like Hitech, is focusing on his core product.  A smart business plan in anybody's book.    CT, is a branch off of the core, that will appeal to a slightly different player base.  Diversifying, is another smart move, business wise.  All I'm seeing here is a smart businessman allocating the few resources he has, to projects that will make the most customers happy.  CT isn't out, (It is in what, closed beta?) so there are no customers to make happy.  I'm sure that when resources become available, CT will be put back on the burner.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Babalonian on October 28, 2008, 03:48:09 PM
*loud annoying whistle*

Official Announcement: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,250755.0.html
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: hubsonfire on October 28, 2008, 03:49:07 PM
And there we have it. Sounds good to me.  :aok
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Babalonian on October 28, 2008, 03:55:06 PM
Took the time to read it fully, it sounds like they're going to give AH a lot more love, and fold what they really wanted to out of CT and into AH... turn AH into a bigger and badder contender.  It sounds awesome to me, can't wait to see some of these changes take shape and see what the development team has hidden away to surprise us all.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 05:08:18 PM
Where's the press release? :P
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: 1pLUs44 on October 28, 2008, 05:12:44 PM
I think a lot of people had a feeling HTC would be coming out with CT soon because of the release of the AI Bots... I honestly would pay another 15$$ a month for a few months to hurry up and pay for CT personally if they were going to actually go and finish it. It's a shame that it went away... All that work... gone for nothing.  :frown: :salute
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: macleod01 on October 28, 2008, 05:35:07 PM
Hang on, He said that they have major problems to overcome, so its going on the 'backburner'. Not being scrapped. I think some people are just putting words into Hitechs, or in this case Pyro's, mouth. Their figuring out who to breath life into CT, once thats done it adn AH updated to HT's standards, CT will be back on the full burner and back into full swing. I personally am looking forward to CT, but im more looking forward to the updates planned by HT, even if it does mean a whole new rig fore me  :(
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Iron_Cross on October 28, 2008, 05:57:46 PM
I wonder what other CT goodies, will be incorporated into MA, and online scenario play.  The AI bots for offline were neat.  Incorporating that for online scenario play will make scenarios huge, and huge fun.  Exciting new game-play possibilities are opening up for AHII.  Pyro wants to have most of the features of CT incorporated into AHII.  Then all they have to do is implement the RPG aspect to launch CT.(from what I gathered from Pyro's post)  I'm sorry to see CT get shelved(for now), but with the renewed focus on game play and features for AHII, I only see AHII getting to be a stronger, more playable, and more enjoyable game to play.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: LYNX on October 28, 2008, 06:38:02 PM
Quote
What this all means for now is that we are going to focus on core game development.  We’re going to pull the CT AI mission system and redevelop it for use by CM’s in scenarios and special events.  We’re working on new terrain upgrades in both the technology and the art used.  We want to implement a character animation system. 

OK...got all that.  Sounds good makes sense.  Very good for FSO's and scenario's.

Quote
We want to bring back the old 8 player H2H but expand it both in the number of players and with additional gameplay capabilities.

Sounds like their taking on IL-2.....not a bad thing but whats "additional gameplay"?  Missions in the h2h arena's?

Quote
There’s a lot of systems in the game engine that are dated and in need of overhaul.

Now here's where I get lost because I have no idea what a game engine actually does....could someone clarify please.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: moot on October 28, 2008, 06:38:17 PM
I had a long conversation with Dale ...

He is going to be seriously looking at bump-mapping, pixel shading, etc ... He really wants to concentrate on the "land" and "water" aspect to get the "world" looking better. He said that these are some of things that he can take advantage of without a huge "cost" incurred by implementing them.
Yep, he'd said so around the time the AH2 beta was just going public.  The pixel shaders have their spot ready, it just needs to be done, no big rework required.  What I hope they do is make it all well-measured.  No obvious disproportionate lego-like bump mapping, no flashy glowing effects, or e.g. if they model heat waves off exhaust it should match the wavelength of real exhaust heat waves, not look slapped on like something out of Halo on XBOX.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 28, 2008, 07:11:42 PM
Well, there you have it.  An official announcement.  Personally, I think it's great what they have decided, and I'm looking forward to what they decide to implement into AH2, hopefully in the near future.

I think that, judging by what they said in the announcement, it sounds like they will be able to add all of the projects that they have planned and in a timely, efficient manner, and in a way that works for them and us.

Seems like a Win-Win to me.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 28, 2008, 07:13:50 PM
I honestly would pay another 15$$ a month for a few months to hurry up and pay for CT personally if they were going to actually go and finish it.

Keep in mind that "resources" doesn't always mean money.  In the announcement, Pyro specifically says that their staff was simply stretched to thin and it became inefficient to work on all the projects at once.  Sounds more like a "time" thing than a "money" thing.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 28, 2008, 08:23:33 PM
Keep in mind that "resources" doesn't always mean money.  In the announcement, Pyro specifically says that their staff was simply stretched to thin and it became inefficient to work on all the projects at once.  Sounds more like a "time" thing than a "money" thing.

Aren't time and money very close bedfellows?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: mensa180 on October 28, 2008, 08:38:49 PM
Keep in mind that "resources" doesn't always mean money.  In the announcement, Pyro specifically says that their staff was simply stretched to thin and it became inefficient to work on all the projects at once.  Sounds more like a "time" thing than a "money" thing.

Hours logged by employees= money paid
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 28, 2008, 08:46:20 PM
Sounds more like a "time" thing than a "money" thing.


Sounds more like a lack of bodies than anything else.  With only two artists, they were overwhelmed with tasks for CT and the core game.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 28, 2008, 09:51:49 PM

Sounds more like a lack of bodies than anything else.  With only two artists, they were overwhelmed with tasks for CT and the core game.


ack-ack

That was the point I was trying to get across.  They didn't have enough time in the day to tend to all the projects they had going on.

Hours logged by employees= money paid

They could be salary employees.   :lol   :aok
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: morfiend on October 28, 2008, 10:10:32 PM
15 degrees? LOL you can realese bombs flying inverted in any plane. My personal favorite is a long slow aileron roll in B26s whilst unloading vast ammounts of 100lb bombs on my own runway before finding someone silly enough to try and ho me.


 Just the other day I wondered why I spent so much time reading this forum.Then I read a post like this and know the answer........ Priceless...

 Thx batty ya made my day with this 1... :aok
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Bronk on October 29, 2008, 05:16:44 AM
That was the point I was trying to get across.  They didn't have enough time in the day to tend to all the projects they had going on.

They could be salary employees.   :lol   :aok
Pffft... just chain em to the desk.  ;)
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: rogerdee on October 29, 2008, 05:39:42 AM
It would be nice if the could put up some AI flights in the main arenas when numbers are low some people like early and mid war but
playing against 10 people if you can find them isn't much fun.At least if there were AI bomber runs or fighter sweeps you know your gonna
find something to shoot at.
Have AI bombers attack fields or strats give them some figher escort not too good tho,and intice some one to go defend the strats and have a fight
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 29, 2008, 09:43:32 AM
It would be nice if the could put up some AI flights in the main arenas when numbers are low some people like early and mid war but
playing against 10 people if you can find them isn't much fun.At least if there were AI bomber runs or fighter sweeps you know your gonna
find something to shoot at.
Have AI bombers attack fields or strats give them some figher escort not too good tho,and intice some one to go defend the strats and have a fight


Random A.I. adversaries.  I kinda like it.

They have been developing them, what better way to test?   Just toss a few A.I. bogies in the mix.   :aok


SYSTEM:  You have shot down Pyro Clone #1
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: waystin2 on October 29, 2008, 10:36:41 AM

Random A.I. adversaries.  I kinda like it.

They have been developing them, what better way to test?   Just toss a few A.I. bogies in the mix.   :aok


SYSTEM:  You have shot down Pyro Clone #1

I like the idea too!  It would guarantee adversaries at all times, and certainly keep you on your toes... :uhoh
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 29, 2008, 10:49:34 AM
I like the idea too!  It would guarantee adversaries at all times, and certainly keep you on your toes... :uhoh

Well, keep your eyes on the Snapshots and FSOs -- cause HTC has said that's where the AIs will be integrated into the game first.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: LYNX on October 29, 2008, 11:15:07 AM
I am strictly against any AI aircraft in the MA.....at any time of day or night.  Keep the MA for real folk.

It's gonna piss me off no end to find out I upped to kill a frikin virtual robot.  Infact I may as well pull the Microsoft thing off me shell and do the missions in that......yaaawwwnnnnn.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: FireDragon on October 29, 2008, 11:21:24 AM
Real folk dont fight in the ma   robots do :devil   
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Stang on October 29, 2008, 11:23:53 AM
Even with a totally dumbed down AI it still would put up a better fight than 90% of AH's human players.  I still wouldn't want to see it in the MA's though.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: VonMessa on October 29, 2008, 11:45:21 AM
I am strictly against any AI aircraft in the MA.....at any time of day or night.  Keep the MA for real folk.

It's gonna piss me off no end to find out I upped to kill a frikin virtual robot.  Infact I may as well pull the Microsoft thing off me shell and do the missions in that......yaaawwwnnnnn.


I thought you were a robot.......         

 :noid
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Fulmar on October 29, 2008, 11:54:56 AM
Perhaps if their work on the game environment, we can get rid of the supernova sun?  Or perhaps the moon that has ventured too close to Earth's orbit?
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: PFactorDave on October 29, 2008, 11:57:05 AM
Or perhaps the moon that has ventured too close to Earth's orbit?

 :rofl  Isn't that the truth!  That thing is going to hit us at any time now!  :O
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Simaril on October 29, 2008, 12:15:25 PM
Even with a totally dumbed down AI it still would put up a better fight than 90% of AH's human players.  I still wouldn't want to see it in the MA's though.

I suspect HT wouldn't give it much action there either. "BEtter fight than 90%" means that it would be a scourge for that 90%, and the game has a steep frustrating learning curve as it is.

Wouldn't be surprised to see scalable AI in offline before it shows up in MA.
Title: Re: Word Around the Campfire (con't)...
Post by: Newman5 on October 29, 2008, 01:31:15 PM
:rofl  Isn't that the truth!  That thing is going to hit us at any time now!  :O


 :rofl :rofl