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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: A8TOOL on October 28, 2008, 08:12:29 PM

Title: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: A8TOOL on October 28, 2008, 08:12:29 PM


All this talk about this plane started to make me think it's something special...so i looked it up.

Conclusion: Waste of time. Useless to a point unless made specifically for the special events arena.
 
The A-26 Invader would be a more logical choice to enter the game




Specifications (He 111 H-6)

Data from Jane’s Fighting Aircraft of World War II [22]

General characteristics

    * Crew: 5 (pilot, navigator/bombardier, nose gunner, ventral gunner, dorsal gunner)
    * Length: 16.4 m (54 ft 6 in)
    * Wingspan: 22.5 m (74 ft 3 in)
    * Height: 3.9 m (13 ft 9 in)
    * Wing area: 86.5 m² (942 ft²)
    * Empty weight: 7,720 kg (17,000 lb)
    * Loaded weight: 12,030 kg (26,500 lb)
    * Max takeoff weight: 14,075 kg (31,000 lb)
    * Powerplant: 2× Jumo 211F-1 liquid-cooled inverted V-12, 986 kW (1,300 hp) each

Performance

    * Maximum speed: 400 km/h (250 mph)
    * Range: 2,800 km with max fuel (1,750 mi)
    * Service ceiling 8,390 m (27,500 ft)
    * Rate of climb: 20 minutes to 5,185 m (17,000 ft)
    * Wing loading: 137 kg/m² (28.1 lb/ft²)
    * Power/mass: .082 kW/kg (.049 hp/lb)

Armament

    * Guns:
          o up to seven 7.92 mm MG 15 or MG 81 machine guns, some of them replaced or augmented by
                + 1× 20 mm MG FF cannon (central nose mount or forward ventral position)
                + 1× 13 mm MG 131 machine gun (mounted dorsal and/or ventral rear positions)

    * Bombs:
          o up to 2,000 kg (4,409 lb) carried internally (eight 250 kg max), or:
          o up to 2,500 kg (5,512 lb) on two external racks


Quote
   
As far as I see the He-111 (and yes, I want it)
« on: October 04, 2008, 04:45:57 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Well, we all want the He-111, but rarely are we gonna use it. When they previewed the P-39, and before that, we were all flippin out and actin all happy and saying it's gonna own in MA and stuff.... Then it comes a long, and 60% of the community cries "WASTE!!11!!" And as much as I want the He-111, I think thats what is gonna happen.

So if you wish for it, dont start crying when it doesn't do what you want it to do.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Wyld45 on October 28, 2008, 08:40:43 PM


                          I liked the one in "Warbirds"04,(updated). It had this great cockpit view
               that reminded me of the "M-Falcon" window view. Wasnt a bad flyer either.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Steve on October 28, 2008, 08:44:41 PM
You are right that the MA will not be a place for the HE111.  You are also right that it would be great for scenarios.  For this reason, I'd like to see the HE111 in game. I'm with you on the a26 too though.. I think it will be a fun plane in the set.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: bobtom on October 28, 2008, 08:48:06 PM
He-111 would be great for scenarios, and the green arena. I hate uber rides so I might even fly it in the blue/orange arenas. 
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: glock89 on October 28, 2008, 08:49:49 PM
Love to see them both to be added.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Guppy35 on October 28, 2008, 09:00:49 PM
Someone say Beaufighter?

40-45 service.  ETO, MTO, North Africa, Malta, CBI, PTO.  4 20mm, 6 303s (4 50 cals on the Aussie Mk 21)  provisions for rockets, bombs and a torpedo.  All kinds of scenario and MA use.

And it looks tough too :)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Beau-1.jpg)
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: glock89 on October 28, 2008, 09:08:19 PM
Me-410? (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/me410/me410-9.jpg)Or the Hs-129 with the option of adding the Pak 40.  :devil(http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/905/HS129-013.jpg)
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Guppy35 on October 28, 2008, 09:18:35 PM
Slow, lousy engines, hunk a junk
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: choppit on October 28, 2008, 09:31:10 PM
Armament

    * Guns:
          o up to seven 7.92 mm MG 15 or MG 81 machine guns, some of them replaced or augmented by
                + 1× 20 mm MG FF cannon (central nose mount or forward ventral position)
                + 1× 13 mm MG 131 machine gun (mounted dorsal and/or ventral rear positions)

I can shoot down planes easily in an 88, and it has 4 7.62 guns. Albeit yes it is a weak armament, but it's just like the 8 .303s on a Spit I / Hurricane I. The other guns fill the extreme gaps in the 88's defensive coverage. Primarily at the the sides. Also, just one 13mm gun makes the 111 more defend-able than the 88, just because it is a heavier gun.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: glock89 on October 28, 2008, 09:49:33 PM
Slow, lousy engines, hunk a junk
Oh well the Ju-88P.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Rich46yo on October 28, 2008, 10:39:11 PM
I actually saw some JU-88s tonight that weren't torpedo and bail tardmobiles. We slaughtered them before they even got close to the target. In fact I dont think Ive ever seen JU-88s actually make it to the target when fighters are at their Alt. They are the easiest things in the world to shoot down.

In a formation they look pretty cool. And I admit I like the way they fly and handle. But do we really need the early war bomber they replaced?

Especially since we dont have a Russian level bomber yet. If we got the TU-2 , AND , another perk bomber like the A-26 I'd be in hog heaven. I'd love to see the TU-2 in the game.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 10:46:43 PM
Silly arms race mentality. :rolleyes:  Meanwhile we're running the BoB without it's most iconic aircraft.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Karnak on October 28, 2008, 11:18:10 PM
Silly arms race mentality. :rolleyes:  Meanwhile we're running the BoB without it's most iconic aircraft.
No Spitfire?
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Wedge1126 on October 28, 2008, 11:40:37 PM
I'm not sure why people that want only the "latest and greatest" aircraft choose to play a game that has only antiquated WW2 aircraft. As for me, I want all aircraft. The more the better. If it's a real aircraft, I want it in game. Hell, I won't even say no to modern aircraft(properly perked, of course: 9999999999999999999999) or the Wright Flyer (Negative perks?  :rofl).
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: SIK1 on October 29, 2008, 12:34:55 AM
No Spitfire?

 :rofl :rofl :rofl Karnak I nearly busted a gut when I read your responce.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 29, 2008, 01:01:22 AM
...Spitfire?

Yeah, if you're about 9 years old. ;)

Tell me this wouldn't be cool:
(http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/justin/1087/WWII/Images/Aire/hecabin.jpg)
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Karnak on October 29, 2008, 02:09:49 AM
Anaxogoras,

There is no remote contest for which aircraft was the most iconic of the Battle of Britain.  The Spitfire is that aircraft and there is nothing even close to competing with it for that.


However, the Spitfire was certainly not the most important aircraft in the Battle of Britain.  For those I'd have to pick the Hurricane, Bf109E and He111.


But you didn't say "most important", you said "most iconic".
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Iron_Cross on October 29, 2008, 02:41:57 AM
Words, explaining that only uber rides should be in the MA!!!1!!1!!

Then don't fly it TOOL!  Not every plane has to be a MA monster, in your opinion.  By your rational the only planes that should be allowed in the MA, are the LA LA, Spit 16, NIKI, and runstangs.  Ya real exciting gameplay there TOOL.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Charge on October 29, 2008, 05:32:52 AM
"There is no remote contest for which aircraft was the most iconic of the Battle of Britain. The Spitfire is that aircraft and there is nothing even close to competing with it for that."

What a silly claim. What about Hawker Hurricane?

BoB was probably the type's best performance, and it practically won the battle also taking the heaviest losses. After that event its significance declined.

-C+
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Ghosth on October 29, 2008, 07:32:21 AM
Spit got the glory, Hurri did most of the work.

Just because a plane is not capable of standing on its own in late war doesn't mean it shouldn't be added.

In fact in my opinion the opposite is true. We really do NOT need more late war monsters.
What we need are bombers, bombers, bombers, and early war planes that are missing from the sets.

Russians have only the iL2, which really isn't even a bomber.
Japanese needs at least the Betty. KI-67 is a bomber but its a LIGHT bomber.  Again like the German, russian set.
Not a good medium or hvy bomber with decent range and payload.

Plus Japanese have only early war Carrier attack planes, they need late war versions also.
Would be like US having only SBD, early TBM but no F6f's, no F4u's. Pull those from their planeset and how competitive are they? Same thing for the Japanese.

Not to mention we have NONE of the Japanese hvy fighters.

Italians have nothing.

Germans have only the ju-88, which did a multitude of roles. But it was not long range heavy load bomber.
Granted they didn't have a good long range hvy hauler. But please give us what they had.
And we need the ju-52 while your doing it.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: rogerdee on October 29, 2008, 09:03:00 AM
the he 111 was the first model i ever made and id love to have one in the game.

Why is it always everyone wants late war planes then moan when they get owned by
early war plane.
The he111 flew all the way through the war so it should be added.
so should the betty and a russian bomber maybe the PE2

And while there at it through in some Bi planes so that the swingers on here
can go both ways :pray
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Denholm on October 29, 2008, 09:07:57 AM
I'm looking at this differently. I'm seeing a lacking Axis bomber plane-set, and the opportunity to add to it with the addition of the HE-111. I'm not after some incredibly durable bomber that can pound cities to death after taking 200 rounds to the hull. I'm after adding more planes to our lacking axis bomber plane-set.

No, the addition of the A-26 will not add to the lacking axis bomber plane-set. Did I forget to mention our lacking axis bomber plane-set?
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: bongaroo on October 29, 2008, 09:14:47 AM
We don't need anymore Allied Bombers for a bit.  Fill in the other planesets!  HE-111 FTW!
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 29, 2008, 09:50:33 AM
Hehe, and so it starts.  Spitfire?  Hurricane?  He 111?

Most people who only know of these planes cannot tell a Spitfire from a Hurricane, but they sure as heck can pick out a Heinkel.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Bubbajj on October 29, 2008, 10:35:32 AM
We don't need any more bombers, PERIOD!
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: shreck on October 29, 2008, 10:51:52 AM
I'm looking at this differently. I'm seeing a lacking Axis bomber plane-set, and the opportunity to add to it with the addition of the HE-111. I'm not after some incredibly durable bomber that can pound cities to death after taking 200 rounds to the hull. I'm after adding more planes to our lacking axis bomber plane-set.

No, the addition of the A-26 will not add to the lacking axis bomber plane-set. Did I forget to mention our lacking axis bomber plane-set?

I'm with ya here!  Also the historical alure would be worth the HE111 being added!
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Greebo on October 29, 2008, 10:52:05 AM
I think we need at least one slow, badly armed early war bomber for scenarios. As it is most early war fighters have a real struggle to intercept the Boston or Ju 88. These two aircraft formed a minority of their sides' bomber strength in RL and were way faster than most other bombers of the period.

A bomber like the He 111 would make a much more acceptable scenario substitute for the majority of the allied and Axis bombers of the period in terms of its speed and defensive capabilities.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Fencer51 on October 29, 2008, 11:07:16 AM
We also desperately need the Betty.  Not the Michigan one.  :uhoh
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Major Biggles on October 29, 2008, 11:10:10 AM
Hehe, and so it starts.  Spitfire?  Hurricane?  He 111?

Most people who only know of these planes cannot tell a Spitfire from a Hurricane, but they sure as heck can pick out a Heinkel.



Obviously you're not English...

As a proud inhabitant of the nation the battle was fought over and named for, I can tell you without doubt that the Spitfire is the most iconic plane of the BoB. Even a 3 year old child can instantly recognise the shape and sound of a Spitfire, It's just not a contest.

Perhaps the Hurricane deserves to be the most revered, and the He-111 is of course one of the most instantly recognisable planes of the war, but the Spitfire stands alone as the poster child of the BoB.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Karnak on October 29, 2008, 12:59:15 PM
Hehe, and so it starts.  Spitfire?  Hurricane?  He 111?

Most people who only know of these planes cannot tell a Spitfire from a Hurricane, but they sure as heck can pick out a Heinkel.
Ask a random stranger or coworker if they have heard of the following aircraft:

Spitfire
109
Hurricane
He111


Odds are only the first two will be known, if any. 

As to recognizing it, the Spitfire's distinctive eliptical wings will be remembered by anybody with even a slight knowlege of the subject.  People with no knowlege of it won't remember the He111, Ju87, Bf109, Hurricane, Bf110, Do17, Ju88 or Spitfire.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 29, 2008, 01:32:49 PM
It's funny that you mention that, because Soviet pilots who flew the Spitfire Mk V had a terrible time getting shot down by their own AAA because to the gunners it looked too much like a 109. ;)
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Angus on October 29, 2008, 04:09:10 PM
The He 111 has 3 things better than the Ju88:
- Better visibility
- Better Durability
- (Possibly) better bombload. Something close to a B-26 and even more.

I'd like it.
I do recall whines about "pointless new hangar queen" regarding aircraft like the Hurricane, P39 etc etc.
In truth, I think the He111 falls shorter from the mainstream than mush we already have.
So....He-111 plz :D

p.s. A-26 is a must, and so would be the P63...for MA....
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Stampf on October 29, 2008, 05:36:29 PM
Please put me in the Bring on the He111 camp.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: E25280 on October 29, 2008, 07:51:58 PM
It's funny that you mention that, because Soviet pilots who flew the Spitfire Mk V had a terrible time getting shot down by their own AAA because to the gunners it looked too much like a 109. ;)
That's because it looked sexy.

"Hey, Ivan!  Sexy Plane!  Can't be Russian! SHOOOOT IIIIT!!!!"





















<runs and hides from yak lovers>
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: bongaroo on October 29, 2008, 08:20:20 PM
And from the looks of it, I'd say more people want it than don't.  Sorry OP, your wrong!   :devil
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: BMathis on October 29, 2008, 08:25:25 PM
I'd still like to see some more Early war additions... He 111 will be a hanger queen I think. But more the marrier too!  :rock
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Bronk on October 29, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
A more "fleshed out" early war plane set might draw more to it.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Guppy35 on October 29, 2008, 09:03:42 PM
The He 111 has 3 things better than the Ju88:
- Better visibility
- Better Durability
- (Possibly) better bombload. Something close to a B-26 and even more.

I'd like it.
I do recall whines about "pointless new hangar queen" regarding aircraft like the Hurricane, P39 etc etc.
In truth, I think the He111 falls shorter from the mainstream than mush we already have.
So....He-111 plz :D

p.s. A-26 is a must, and so would be the P63...for MA....

How is the A-26 a must or the P63?  Beaufighter is a must long before those to, very late in the game if at all birds.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: moot on October 29, 2008, 09:55:45 PM
We also desperately need the Betty.  Not the Michigan one.  :uhoh
:lol   :mad:
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: moot on October 29, 2008, 09:57:42 PM
With some luck, getting back to full focus on the MA side of AH will allow HTC to add all of these crappy contraptions, so we can move on to more interesting conversation....... like which deathtrap NEEDS to be added next.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: VonMessa on October 29, 2008, 10:44:07 PM
Please put me in the Bring on the He111 camp.


What he said!
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Squire on October 30, 2008, 06:10:21 AM
wE On1Ly NEed uBer BomBerS t&at ARe 1137WooTers!!! LOL, GiVr uS ThE B--29 WIth THEree NOOKSter Load!!!
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: lyric1 on October 30, 2008, 07:19:31 AM
Someone say Beaufighter?

40-45 service.  ETO, MTO, North Africa, Malta, CBI, PTO.  4 20mm, 6 303s (4 50 cals on the Aussie Mk 21)  provisions for rockets, bombs and a torpedo.  All kinds of scenario and MA use.

And it looks tough too :)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Beau-1.jpg)
Mmmm DAP MK21 To.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: lyric1 on October 30, 2008, 07:27:20 AM
More Axis bombers are a must He111 first maybe even a heavy Italian Buff at a later date. (http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8449/289ae443ad1d436bc465ff0sl0.th.jpg) (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=289ae443ad1d436bc465ff0sl0.jpg)(http://img247.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Overlag on October 30, 2008, 09:51:37 AM
what is it with everyone's needs for uber planes?

maybe if there was a more equal planeset, EW and MW would be used more.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 30, 2008, 10:03:16 AM
No, you're not going to see more people in EW or MW no matter what you do.  It's easier to get kills with the heavily armed late war rides, and so that's where you will find people.

Last night I was in the AvA where the BoB is set up, and an Australian switched over to the Luftwaffe side because he said the RAF guns were crap, until they get the Spitfire V. :lol
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: lyric1 on October 30, 2008, 10:11:26 AM
what is it with everyone's needs for uber planes?

maybe if there was a more equal planeset, EW and MW would be used more.
He111 uber? It would be in all arena's.
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Nefarious on October 30, 2008, 10:13:02 AM
I vote YES on Prop 111.  :lol
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Overlag on October 30, 2008, 10:50:27 AM
He111 uber? It would be in all arena's.


maybe i should have quoted someone, i ment everyone crying for late war uber planes and saying that the HE111 will be useless.... Theres enough latewar planes, lets spread the set out a bit more!
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: BMathis on October 30, 2008, 11:07:44 AM
No, you're not going to see more people in EW or MW no matter what you do.  It's easier to get kills with the heavily armed late war rides, and so that's where you will find people.

What if planes like the ones listed here were in game?
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,239587.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,239587.0.html)
i.e.
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/curtiss-p6-hawk.jpg)
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/b534.jpg)
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/fairey-swordfish.jpg)


I'd be all over the EW!

We do have an early war arena and we also have a very large gap in our early war plane set.  In fact, with the exception of a few planes, the early war years isn't really represented in our plane set.  People complain about how the early war arena is never populated and the biggest reason why is the plane set.  If we were to flesh out the early war planeset with 1939-1940 warbirds it would go a long way of filling in the holes of the planeset.  In addition, it would be a boon to the scenario crowd and even the AvA arena.

No, what we don't need is another fast late war plane when our planeset has so many gaps that need to be filled in covering the early and mid war time line.


ack-ack



here are some EW planes ive dug up in one of my books.

Henschel hs123 (close support aircraft) introduced to service 1936
Gloster Gladiator - 1937
Fairey Firefly - 1941
Dewoitine D.520  -1939 (Served with French airforce, then german airforce and Italy and late war allied french units.) Would be nice to see a french plane that did see ALOT of service.
Fiat CR.32 and CR.42 1935 and 1938.  Italian Bi-plane fighters.
A5M Claude (Its been suggested before but meh cant hurt to list it)
Morane-Saulnier MS.406 1939  (another french fighter)
Polikarpov I-15/I-152/I-153 1933 and subsequent variations.
Polikarpov I-16 1938


A few or all of these and previously mentioned Early War fighters are desperately needed. I know most people dont fly EW because the plane set is limited to like 10 flyable planes, IF all the ones in here were to be added, we'd have at least 25 - 30 planes... and It would even be fun to use em in the LW arenas for the hell of it.

(Some dates may be slightly wrong, its late and reading my book for info while squinting could result in mistakes, feel free to correct them if I am wrong)

<S> Mathis
Title: Re: All this talk about the crappy HE-111
Post by: Wolfala on October 30, 2008, 12:33:43 PM
I think we need at least one slow, badly armed early war bomber for scenarios. As it is most early war fighters have a real struggle to intercept the Boston or Ju 88. These two aircraft formed a minority of their sides' bomber strength in RL and were way faster than most other bombers of the period.

A bomber like the He 111 would make a much more acceptable scenario substitute for the majority of the allied and Axis bombers of the period in terms of its speed and defensive capabilities.

Jeez,


We have the B5N, how much more helpless do you want to make it?