Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wmaker on October 30, 2008, 01:34:12 PM
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I don't think I've ever really posted my own planelist before, only replied in threads started by others. I know all these fighters have been discussed extensively over the years on this forum but now with pyro's development update it is more reasonable to talk about what aircraft deserve to be added in the next few versions featuring new fighters.
Well, here is the list of fighters in alphabetical order that I think should be annded in the span of next few versions:
KI-43-IIb
KI-44-IIb / (IIc)
LaGG-3 Series 66
Yak-1b
Yak-3
Yak-7b
Yak-9
KI-43-IIb
Most important JAAF fighter of the war with almost 6000 produced. AHII has only two JAAF fighters, KI-43 is a clear candidate for the next Japanese aircraft to be added. There is a huge need for it in the special events and AvA. It would also be very interesting EWA-arena aircraft.
KI-44-IIb / IIc
Probably the least "needed" aircraft on my list. A beautiful aircraft. Around 1200 produced, with the KI-43 it would broaden the JAAF planeset further and add more variety. The more rare IIc version could see viable use in the LWMAs and with the extremely low velocity 40mm Ho-301 cannon loadout would add something very different, fun, challenging and rewarding at the same time, to the AHII planeset. The more common IIb variant would be very wellcome for the Special Events, AVA and MWMA.
LaGG-3 Series 66
Yak-1b
Yak-3
Yak-7b
Yak-9
Eastern front was the longest landfront of the war and over it raged a huge air war. Very different from the air war in the western front but just as big, if not bigger in many instances. Lavochkin, Yak-1/3 and Yak-7/9 series of fighters were just as important for the VVS as the P-38, P-47 and P-51 series of fighters were for the USAAF. Right now, we have 9 aircraft covering those USAAF fighters and only 4 covering those VVS fighters. And, with the exception of La-5FN, all those Soviet fighters AHII has are "late-in-the-war" somewhat unrepresentive examples of the total production. With the non existant Soviet level bomber and KI-43 the lack of these VVS fighters is easily the biggest hole in the current planeset. I don't think anyone could imagine a situation where AHII would still totally miss one of the 3 major USAAF ETO-fighters while having only 4 variants to divide between the two that AHII actually would have!! That is the situation where these VVS fighters are in right now. We have none from the Yak-1/3 -series and have only two variants per series for the other two. And they saw MASSIVE amounts of action more or less right from the start of Great Patriotic War (starting with Yak-1 and LaGG-1) to the end and were produced in tens of thousands.
These fighters would be a huge help in designing future scenarios, snapshots, AvA setups and would actually bring VVS-fighters to the EWA. Yak-3 would be a great LWMA-aircraft while the earlier Yaks would see some use aswell.
Here are some of the numbers produced:
"When production ceased a total of 6,528 LaGG-3 of sixty-six different production batches had left the four State Aircraft Factories between January of 1941 and Spetember of 1943."
"Production of the Yak-1 series was phased out in the summer of 1944. By that time, some 8,666 of them had been built."
"A total of 6,399 Yak-7s of all types were built before production ended in early 1943..."
"A total of 16,769 Yak-9 fighters was built in all by the time production ceased in 1947"
"Yak-3 production was shut down in 1946. 4,848 were built in all, with 737 of these delivered after the war."
Sources for the production numbers:
http://www.vectorsite.net/avyak1.html (http://www.vectorsite.net/avyak1.html)
LaGG fighters in Action, ISBN 0-89747-364-7
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I.A.R. 81c
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See list below and pick from it. I know HTC uses me for info when making new rides :D
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Wishlist Forum?
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I think they's begin with MA stuff.
P63 is MA stuff
A-26 is MA stuff
A Beaufighter would be MA stuff. (Torp carrying-cannon armed AND with rockets)
And a Pe-2, or was it Tu-2???
Then you go for scenarios, - well then first comes the need for the Oscar and the early Russian fighters to patch in those areas, notably the I-16!!!
Early Europe would need a D-520, and perhaps a Fokker?
The med would need the Beau, and some more Italian Iron
Just my $
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I think they's begin with MA stuff.
P63 is MA stuff
A-26 is MA stuff
A Beaufighter would be MA stuff. (Torp carrying-cannon armed AND with rockets)
And a Pe-2, or was it Tu-2???
Then you go for scenarios, - well then first comes the need for the Oscar and the early Russian fighters to patch in those areas, notably the I-16!!!
Early Europe would need a D-520, and perhaps a Fokker?
The med would need the Beau, and some more Italian Iron
Just my $
There are 4 MAs. Early, mid and 2 late. A fattened up early plane set would attract more to that arena.
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Next plane is a simple choice really-------- KI-84lb :aok
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I think they's begin with MA stuff.
P63 is MA stuff
A-26 is MA stuff
A Beaufighter would be MA stuff. (Torp carrying-cannon armed AND with rockets)
And a Pe-2, or was it Tu-2???
Then you go for scenarios, - well then first comes the need for the Oscar and the early Russian fighters to patch in those areas, notably the I-16!!!
Early Europe would need a D-520, and perhaps a Fokker?
The med would need the Beau, and some more Italian Iron
Just my $
Would probably need a perk.... I vote... RUSSIAN PLANE SET RELEASE NEXT! :rock
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Update the existing Yaks first is by far my first preference, after that then yes definitely the Yak-1B and Yak-3 would be very welcome additions.
<S>...-Gixer
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Isn't the 9M supposed to be an easy and worthwhile addition?
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KI-44-IIb / IIc
Probably the least "needed" aircraft on my list. A beautiful aircraft. Around 1200 produced, with the KI-43 it would broaden the JAAF planeset further and add more variety. The more rare IIc version could see viable use in the LWMAs and with the extremely low velocity 40mm Ho-301 cannon loadout would add something very different, fun, challenging and rewarding at the same time, to the AHII planeset. The more common IIb variant would be very wellcome for the Special Events, AVA and MWMA.
I have to say, this is probably the most needed aircraft on your list, with further adding the -44-Ia. While the -43 may have the higher production numbers, it does not expand the capabillities of the japanese planeset, since it pretty much exactly fits into the A6M flight envelope, but with much less firepower. The -44 on the other hand would give the japanese planeset a more interceptor/B&Z like aircraft in EWA and MWA. Something we actually only have in the LWA with the N1K.
The -44 would also be much more competetive in MWA and LWA and it's also very useful for scenarios.
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KI84 Ib ---- KI84 Ic
:pray
zuii
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Ahhh...I was ogling (is that a word) a Yak 9 at the war museum here in Kiev last weekend. The only one I've ever seen. Very tasty, though a bit battered. Yep, I'd like to see that updated here.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/356249796_e7cc7b578c_o.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/356249796_e7cc7b578c_o.jpg)
other than this one, which is inside the museum building
http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2483596510052000287oAxoBT (http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2483596510052000287oAxoBT)
These aren't my pics BTW
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Dont listen wmaker when he is drunk.
Actually only plane he wants is Brewster.
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+1, I'm always in for VSS fighters
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Italian planes.... :noid
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Next on the list voted on I think is the Me-410 followed by the Italian G55 wasn't it?
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no the next planes were yak3 and the a26, they were 3rd and 4th, the crappy italian thing i can't remember where that finished.
This could call for the dreaded search button :D
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/round1.jpg)
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So it will be the A-26 :D
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no the next planes were yak3 and the a26, they were 3rd and 4th, the crappy italian thing i can't remember where that finished.
This could call for the dreaded search button :D
Just let HT model it, then we'll see how crappy it is....
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Just goes to show how idiotic the majority can be. I don't even see the Lagg-3 or Yak-1 on that list.
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Just goes to show how idiotic the majority can be. I don't even see the Lagg-3 or Yak-1 on that list.
They weren't an option. You saying the people who gave us the list were idiots?
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What? No I-16?
Worthless thread.
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They weren't an option. You saying the people who gave us the list were idiots?
No, I wouldn't say that. But I would say it about the vote tallies based on the given options. It's clear that many voted on what they thought would be good for the main arena rather than scenarios, e.g. Me-410, A-26, Yak-3, don't really fill any big holes in our scenario planesets. And the G55? :huh The one bright spot is that 5% actually voted for the buffalo. That surprises me. All of the people who voted for "russian bomber" or "japanese fighter" and the other less popular but scenario worthy choices needed to combine their votes for one specific choice to out-vote the main arena twits.
Before I get flamed, let me concede that the P-39 was a good choice as it has uses in many different theaters of combat, and for more than one nation. The B-25, however, was just icing on the cake for the American bomber planeset. Worthy of addition, yes, but other countries' planesets needed filling out first.
Fwiw, I don't like the way the poll was worded. Every choice should be specific. The general categories will never stand a chance because of their lack of specificity.
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B25 played such a huge part of the war... Thats the thing, probably a bigger part than the P-51 or Spitfire did.
It's what the community wants, LW monsters... I'd personally like the A-26... :)
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I'd hardly call the B-25 a LW monster. The B-25C is outclassed by the A-20 and B-26, and while I'll give you the B-25H as the premier strafer in the game, she needs either total air-superiority or a top-notch escort to get the job done.
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Really? I've upped from a vulched field and sank a CV... the B-25 just seems a bit unnoticed... :lol
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So it will be the A-26 :D
I doubt they will simply go down that list. I think the P-39 happened when it happened simply because the vote was shockingly close. What will come next, who knows, but it probably isn't American.
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I doubt they will simply go down that list. I think the P-39 happened when it happened simply because the vote was shockingly close. What will come next, who knows, but it probably isn't American.
Agreed, 111 or earlier Japanese fighter/bomber.
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Agreed, 111 or earlier Japanese fighter/bomber.
Let's hope. :pray
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My vote is 111 and I-16 ;), then maybe LaGG or Yak-1
Early eastern front + Finland for instance.
Oh, then the Brewster :D
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OK, I would like a Yak-3 please. Thanks!
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111 should be the next addition. It's probably the more obvious hole in any planeset.
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I just think it would be fun if we were able to vote again like we did. A player chosen ride, and then ofcourse the suprise rides :)
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I just think it would be fun if we were able to vote again like we did. A player chosen ride, and then ofcourse the suprise rides :)
Then we will get an A-26 instead of an He 111.
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The biggest hole in the plane set is the lack of medium early to mid-war Japanese bomber.
The second biggest hole is a tie between an early to mid war Russian fighter and a similar era Russian bomber.
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Wishlist Forum?
Well, before the wishlist-forum existed this forum has been traditionally used to discuss about game's plane additions. Yes, I could have posted it in the wishlist-forum as well.
I think they's begin with MA stuff.
P63 is MA stuff
A-26 is MA stuff
A Beaufighter would be MA stuff. (Torp carrying-cannon armed AND with rockets)
And a Pe-2, or was it Tu-2???
"And a Pe-2, or was it Tu-2???"
Right. This pretty much illustrates what people generally know about the aireal warfare in the eastern front. And it seems that that is the reason why the majority (and most people in this thread) really aren't interested about adding planes that actually fought that war either.
And I'm not talking about planes like the TU-2 and Yak-3 here but the true work horses I listed that actually carried most of the burden. Yak-3 in my list was just an added bonus because it is one of the few fighters left that has realistic MA-appeal and could easily be included at the same time as Yak-1b is done.
And this is not in any way directed at you...it's just that your comment happened to illustrate my point. At least you mentioned the Pe-2. And yes, I do think lack of Pe-2 is one of the biggest holes in this planeset...but this thread was about fighters.
What comes to the US aircraft in general...
In an almost exact time span of four years we've gotten 13 new aircraft,
Ki-84
B-24J
P-38G
P-38J
P-47N
Bf109G-14
Spitfire Mk.VIII
Spitfire Mk.XVI
F4U-1A
B-25C
B-25H
P-39D
P-39Q
NINE of them are from USA. 11 of them are allied aircraft, only two of them axis. Not that it matters much to anyone but if the next new aircraft is going to be A-26, another US bomber, I'll probably blow a head gasget. I've seen the thing in flight. What a great performing and good looking aircraft just oozing power...but for many reasons there are loads of aircraft that should be added before it.
Beaufighter would be a great addition, nice attack plane, used in several theaters and many were built. But like I stated in my initial post, the eastern front is far too neglected and like I said, we are still missing the most important fighter of one the major player air forces; JAAF's KI-43. That should be far ahead of Beaufighter in terms of priorities. 11 allied aircraft produced during the last four years, only two axis a/c.
Isn't the 9M supposed to be an easy and worthwhile addition?
Yes, pyro said that he would like to do an M before the D or basic Yak-9 because it has the same cockpit position as the Yak-9T (40cm aft compared to the normal Yak-9 to accomodate the NS37). He said that it could then use the same basic 3D-model as the Yak-9T. I'd still like to see a regular Yak-9 because that is the way the majority of the Yak-9s looked. I don't know which appications they are using at HTC but I can't see what is the big problem in moving the cockpit forward or aft along the fuselage as the geometry of the fuselage itself didn't really change between models.
I have to say, this is probably the most needed aircraft on your list, with further adding the -44-Ia. While the -43 may have the higher production numbers, it does not expand the capabillities of the japanese planeset, since it pretty much exactly fits into the A6M flight envelope, but with much less firepower. The -44 on the other hand would give the japanese planeset a more interceptor/B&Z like aircraft in EWA and MWA. Something we actually only have in the LWA with the N1K.
The -44 would also be much more competetive in MWA and LWA and it's also very useful for scenarios.
Well, if you say that it is the most needed aircraft in my list you are forgetting the whole airwar between Luftwaffe and VVS basically. I see your point about similar flight envelope between the KI-43 and Zeke but that really isn't a good argument since Zeke was the Navy's and KI-43 was the air force's fighter. They fought many times in different parts of the pacific and I just think that the use of substitutions for planes as important as KI-43 should not be needed at this point of the development of the whole planeset. KI-43 was introduced a lot earlier in WarBirds.
That said, KI-44 is by far my favourite from the list I posted. I just try to look at this as objectively as I can, as that in the end provides more enjoyable special events, AvA setups, etc. It is those things that (IMO) in the end prove more enjoyable than what any single plane can...well, maybe except for the Brewster. :D
Italian planes.... :noid
Well, in a way I forgot to add C.200 to the list. But I didn't want the list to grow too big either. I think C.200 should definately be added since it was, based on the numbers available, the most important Italian fighter of the war along with the G.50 and the CR.42. Lets hope it gets added when the Macchi series is updated. And that should be pretty soon too. It had the same wing as the 202/205-series, and the basic fuselage as well. The wings can be "bolted on" as they are but the fuselage will need a bit more work. One of my favourites! I would fly it quite a bit along updated C.205.
What? No I-16?
Worthless thread.
Thanks for your invaluable input.
I just think that, considering the current plane set, 109F-4 vs. Yak-1b/Yak-7b might be a bit more even fight than 109E-4 vs. I-16/I-153 for example. Personally I'd love to see both I-153 and I-16. Probably would fly I-16 quite a bit myself. I just think that in AH it needs a bit more equal adversaries like the Brewster Model 239 for example to make a fun and playable match up. And before we can realistically expect planes like the Brewster to get included we need some other planes first. That was the point of my thread; what fighters should be added in the next version featuring new aircraft. I'm not saying that I-16 shouldn't be added.
111 should be the next addition. It's probably the more obvious hole in any planeset.
It is the most obvious hole in the BoB-planeset but definately not in the whole AH planeset. For example AH doesn't have a single VVS level bomber, at least it has one for the Luftwaffe.
The biggest hole in the plane set is the lack of medium early to mid-war Japanese bomber.
The second biggest hole is a tie between an early to mid war Russian fighter and a similar era Russian bomber.
I do agree that G4M is much needed addition as well, but AH at least has one Japanese level bomber, VVS has none.
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The biggest hole in the plane set is the lack of medium early to mid-war Japanese bomber.
The second biggest hole is a tie between an early to mid war Russian fighter and a similar era Russian bomber.
Yes indeed,we also need high alt axis rides. I think the addition of any early to mid war planes are surely needed to sort out substitution in different scenarios. 1 thing I might point out though,if you've read into the DEV report,there is a 16 hardpoint limit that HTC has to solve.This unfortunately points to the conclusion that the A26 may be beyond the present games abilities.
I'd like to see A26 added too! but it seems that other things need to be worked on before this can happen.So in the meantime I'd like to see the planesets evened out.
Me 410
:noid
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So, Vmaker, what would be your 2 plane vote, one axis, one allied?
Mine would be He-111 and I-16...I think.
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Pe-2 and G4M2
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"So, Vmaker, what would be your 2 plane vote, one axis, one allied?"
"NINE of them are from USA. 11 of them are allied aircraft, only two of them axis."
One allied? Why? To keep it balanced?
There are 50 allied planes and 28 axis ATM... :eek:
-C+
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So, Vmaker, what would be your 2 plane vote, one axis, one allied?
Mine would be He-111 and I-16...I think.
I would vote for KI-43 and Pe-2FT. Well, if it would be a vote then I'd probably vote Brewster and Pe-2FT just out of principle. :) But the obvious aircraft to add would be the KI-43 and Pe-2FT. And this is all assuming that We'd get at least regular Yak-9 and Yak-7b anyway as the Yaks are getting updated.
Since this thread obviously can't be kept being about fighters alone I'll just add that I can't really see any point in adding HE-111 right now. The BoB-planeset is the only planeset where it really is needed. With the JU-88 it is redundant in eastern front-setups and as those VVS early war rides can catch JU-88 better than a Hurricane I. We are in the middle of the BoB-scenario and the next one will probably be held again after two years. He-111 wouldn't add much to the MA-arenas either. Only place it would add something are AVA's BoB-setups but those always focus almost completely to the fighter vs fighter action. I'd like to see it when the next BoB-scenario is approaching but not now.
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I do agree that G4M is much needed addition as well, but AH at least has one Japanese level bomber, VVS has none.
Really? :aok
(http://netaces.org/skins/b25c/skin3a.jpg)
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I'd hardly call the B-25 a LW monster. The B-25C is outclassed by the A-20 and B-26, and while I'll give you the B-25H as the premier strafer in the game, she needs either total air-superiority or a top-notch escort to get the job done.
The B-25H is an LW monster when it comes to taking out GVs.
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Really? :aok
That's a really cool looking skin there Fencer! Would make a great default-skin for Fin-Rus and Karelia maps when Kanttori has time to update them. If you don't mind it seeing that kind of use, that is.
Unfortunately, B-25 was a pretty minor player when it comes to VVS' bomber force. In march '44 there were 1293 Pe-2s in service and only 100 B-25s. With over 11,000 produced and considering is vast usage, Pe-2 is a must. So is the G4M though, definately not denying that.
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we need the catalina and the b 29 :cool: :rock :pray :salute :aok
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we need the catalina and the b 29 :cool: :rock :pray :salute :aok
But of course... :rolleyes:
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Italian planes.... :noid
G.55 :noid
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The B-25H is an LW monster when it comes to taking out GVs.
Yes, but she's also highly vulnerable to even remotely competent enemy air cover. A good 25 stick can delay the inevitable, maybe force a situation where he can get a few snapshots, (and those 8 nose-mounted Brownings more than do their job) but she's too slow, just not maneuverable enough, and has too poor defensive armament (she has a lot of guns, yes, but a lot of holes).
As I said: The 25H needs either total air-superiority or a really good escort to get more than one or two passes.
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Anything that fleshes out the Fin/Rus matchups will greatly reduce the number of threads generated by drunken, naked Finns, and would get my vote.
And, anything that creates opportunities for historical matchups in events that have either not been run, or required hotly debated substitutions is good. I've heard HTC keeps an eye on the big SEA events, and I hope that's a big consideration for them, seeing the numbers that more popular events draw.
B25 a LW monster? What?!
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Since this thread obviously can't be kept being about fighters alone I'll just add that I can't really see any point in adding HE-111 right now. The BoB-planeset is the only planeset where it really is needed. With the JU-88 it is redundant in eastern front-setups and as those VVS early war rides can catch JU-88 better than a Hurricane I.
I don't agree on this one, He-111 was the workhorse of LW bombers, not only in BoB, having the Ju-88 is just a partial remedy.
Well, in a way I forgot to add C.200 to the list. But I didn't want the list to grow too big either. I think C.200 should definately be added since it was, based on the numbers available, the most important Italian fighter of the war along with the G.50 and the CR.42. Lets hope it gets added when the Macchi series is updated. And that should be pretty soon too. It had the same wing as the 202/205-series, and the basic fuselage as well. The wings can be "bolted on" as they are but the fuselage will need a bit more work. One of my favourites! I would fly it quite a bit along updated C.205.
I hope to see those 3 added as soon as possible. Yep, the 200 shouldn't be much work, at least from a 3D model point of view. And the G.50 would be a nice addition for every Finn... :D
Yes, pyro said that he would like to do an M before the D or basic Yak-9 because it has the same cockpit position as the Yak-9T (40cm aft compared to the normal Yak-9 to accomodate the NS37). He said that it could then use the same basic 3D-model as the Yak-9T. I'd still like to see a regular Yak-9 because that is the way the majority of the Yak-9s looked. I don't know which appications they are using at HTC but I can't see what is the big problem in moving the cockpit forward or aft along the fuselage as the geometry of the fuselage itself didn't really change between models.
Maybe the trouble lies in the FM and the data required? Moving the cockpit along the fuselage does change the center of gravity....
Anything that fleshes out the Fin/Rus matchups will greatly reduce the number of threads generated by drunken, naked Finns, and would get my vote.
:lol I second that, Hub!
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Yes, but she's also highly vulnerable to even remotely competent enemy air cover. A good 25 stick can delay the inevitable, maybe force a situation where he can get a few snapshots, (and those 8 nose-mounted Brownings more than do their job) but she's too slow, just not maneuverable enough, and has too poor defensive armament (she has a lot of guns, yes, but a lot of holes).
As I said: The 25H needs either total air-superiority or a really good escort to get more than one or two passes.
If I didn't rip the wings off all the time I'd feel better about using it like I use the a20. Problem being that when really cranking into a turn you barely hear a creak before your a fuselage torpedo set to auger.
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He-111 was the workhorse of LW bombers, not only in BoB, having the Ju-88 is just a partial remedy.
It was the workhorse of LW bombers, just like Ju-88 was. Ju-88 was built in bigger numbers and A-4 was available at the start of the Barbarossa. He-111 does add depth to the Eastern front planeset, but I just think there are more important aircraft to be added right now.
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I just think there are more important aircraft to be added right now.
S.A.P.P has given our express approval for HTC to add the P-38H as the next plane that we get. HiTech in his wisdom has agreed to this (he really doesn't have a choice, we are the power behind the throne) and has personally informed our Grand Exhalted Leader that we can expect it soon.
ack-ack
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S.A.P.P has given our express approval for HTC to add the P-38H as the next plane that we get. HiTech in his wisdom has agreed to this (he really doesn't have a choice, we are the power behind the throne) and has personally informed our Grand Exhalted Leader that we can expect it soon.
ack-ack
:uhoh
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It was the workhorse of LW bombers, just like Ju-88 was. Ju-88 was built in bigger numbers and A-4 was available at the start of the Barbarossa. He-111 does add depth to the Eastern front planeset, but I just think there are more important aircraft to be added right now.
I see your point, but HTC failed by not getting the He 111 out before the BoB scenario.
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Just patiently waiting for the P-61 A/B. Add everything you gents are talking about, but that's the one I'd like to see.
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P-63 King Cobra :rock