Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hlbly on November 06, 2008, 05:44:39 PM
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I know some of you are tired of this however ....... the most useful thing about force feedback is buffet . We have had a new version and a few patches since I figured out <for myself> that buffet wasn't working . I know there is some disdain/contempt for FF in this game . You have no idea how useful being able to FEEL buffet is in a flight sim . The loss of this sensation in the F-16's fly by wire system lead to the AF programing this to be simulated by software . I think this should say something about it that comes from people who know about it first hand . If the USAF spent the time and money to do this for the F-16 it surely is good enough for AH2 . I would like to think that HTC would put some resources on this problem . I wish whoever was responsible for FF in here could fly any version of AirWarrior that had it . The absolute best FF routine I ever experienced in a flight sim .
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O hell! I thought this was about a all-you-could-eat place opening up somewhere. :o
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uhh buffet works for me... when i dove a p-38l from 15k nose down, at high speed my stick started shaking.
and in stall, my stick reacts differently...
so...
umm?
i use ms sw ffb2 stall at 22% buffet tested at 40%, but normally at 20%.
<edit> unless you mean some other kind of buffet force like AA exdploding near by or being struck by bullets?
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O hell! I thought this was about a all-you-could-eat place opening up somewhere. :o
me too
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I was thinking more along the lines of Margaritaville and Cheeseburger in Paradise...
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uhh buffet works for me... when i dove a p-38l from 15k nose down, at high speed my stick started shaking.
and in stall, my stick reacts differently...
so...
umm?
i use ms sw ffb2 stall at 22% buffet tested at 40%, but normally at 20%.
<edit> unless you mean some other kind of buffet force like AA exdploding near by or being struck by bullets?
Nope it doesn't . Turn stall off and tell me how good buffet works . I mean flight buffet . I am surprised you didn't notice the onset of stick movement does not coincide with screen shake . Anyway try it then repost .
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O hell! I thought this was about a all-you-could-eat place opening up somewhere. :o
Me too!
:furious
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Wow so witty .
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O hell! I thought this was about a all-you-could-eat place opening up somewhere. :o
Thats what I thought!
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I'm hungry! :(
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Nope it doesn't . Turn stall off and tell me how good buffet works . I mean flight buffet . I am surprised you didn't notice the onset of stick movement does not coincide with screen shake . Anyway try it then repost .
uhhh yes it does. i disabled the stall effect... left buffet at 39%... to test went to 14k then climbed and stalled it.. no FFB effect on the stall (screen did shudder slightly).
then nosed over into a dive, at speed (forgot what, but fast) the stick started shaking with FFB effect (and the screen also shuddered at a more rapid pace as controls locked.)
i also have trim set.. let me disable that and leave only buffet enabled... brb...
<edit> same parameters with *only* buffet enabled @ 39%.. stall = no effect. no trim = slack stick that will not return to center, lol.
diving at speed = ffb effect of stick shaking.
so, ummmm...
:noid
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O hell! I thought this was about a all-you-could-eat place opening up somewhere. :o
Im hungry for a buffet restauaunt now.............
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Real men fly with this (http://us.kensington.com/html/2200.html)
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I was thinking chinese........... :mad:
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uhhh yes it does. i disabled the stall effect... left buffet at 39%... to test went to 14k then climbed and stalled it.. no FFB effect on the stall (screen did shudder slightly).
then nosed over into a dive, at speed (forgot what, but fast) the stick started shaking with FFB effect (and the screen also shuddered at a more rapid pace as controls locked.)
i also have trim set.. let me disable that and leave only buffet enabled... brb...
<edit> same parameters with *only* buffet enabled @ 39%.. stall = no effect. no trim = slack stick that will not return to center, lol.
diving at speed = ffb effect of stick shaking.
so, ummmm...
:noid
No it doesn't work turn off everything but buffet and trim . Turn your plane until screen shakes . Describe your stick actions . If you can't feel the buffet effect from being on the edge of the envelope FF is worthless . The other stuff is meaningless . The advantage of FF is that you process info faster tactily then visually .
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I was thinking more along the lines of Margaritaville and Cheeseburger in Paradise...
this thread would have been moved to the "worst threads of all time" section and then destroyed if that was the case....NO PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND HAS OR EVER WILL LIKE THOSE SONGS!!!!!!!!! :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
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this thread would have been moved to the "worst threads of all time" section and then destroyed if that was the case....NO PERSON IN THEIR RIGHT MIND HAS OR EVER WILL LIKE THOSE SONGS!!!!!!!!! :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
Mind sticking to the point ?
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My joystick shakes and becomes hard to control while I'm diving on the ack.......oh, nevermind, you meant game controller.
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Mind sticking to the point ?
I wish I could, but I hate those songs.....to be honest though, I have had a FF stick and it never worked in this game for me. The sound of my "buffet" is a Wookie....so yeah I'll STFU, but the Wookie stall warning is great.
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No it doesn't work turn off everything but buffet and trim . Turn your plane until screen shakes . Describe your stick actions . If you can't feel the buffet effect from being on the edge of the envelope FF is worthless . The other stuff is meaningless . The advantage of FF is that you process info faster tactily then visually .
ok, let's clarify some stuff:
forces:
trim - force needed to move stick. low trim = floppier stick, high trim = stiffer
stall - low speed shuddering
buffet - high speed shuddering
<edit> these effects are accompanied with visual screen shudder, which occurs at the same time as the FFB is felt. these screen shudders are the non-ffb(ers) clue to the edge, so makes sense they occur at the same time, and not one before the other. </edit>
now i've tested my stick/forces every which way. and they all work as described. disabling one or the other removes that FFB effect from the experience.
neither stall nor buffet forces we feel with FFB sticks can begin to compare with the tactile sensations of actually being in a real plane.
having said that, in regards to buffet kicking in when it's "too late" to escape the terminal dive without resorting to trimming the elevators, you have a point. perhaps the buffet should kick in a sec or 3 before you hit the control lock... easily code-able? i dunno. in a sense the buffet FFB is mere hand candy.
i guess it's a matter of finding the line between normal engine/turbulence and compression. we're getting the compression FFB, not the normal high speed airframe "feel." by all accounts compression effects came on unexpectedly and by then all a pilot could do was whatever he had to survive.. or not.
i'm a little confused why i would expect to feel buffet flying around on the edge.. well, we do, but it's the "stall" buffet force. and it works very well for me... i guess it was an easier physics to code than compression buffet.
what exactly are you wanting? if you're talking more stall than buffet forces, perhaps you have them set too low or too high? too low and u miss it and stall... too high and it's so assertive in the effect that you can still lose it.
i found stall and buffet to work well for me set around 20-30%, while trim 50 - 100%.
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O hell! I thought this was about a all-you-could-eat place opening up somewhere. :o
And I was expecting some investment advice from my man Warren :lol
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all u non-ffb'ers stop your hatin'!!
:aok
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ok, let's clarify some stuff:
forces:
trim - force needed to move stick. low trim = floppier stick, high trim = stiffer
stall - low speed shuddering
buffet - high speed shuddering
<edit> these effects are accompanied with visual screen shudder, which occurs at the same time as the FFB is felt. these screen shudders are the non-ffb(ers) clue to the edge, so makes sense they occur at the same time, and not one before the other. </edit>
now i've tested my stick/forces every which way. and they all work as described. disabling one or the other removes that FFB effect from the experience.
neither stall nor buffet forces we feel with FFB sticks can begin to compare with the tactile sensations of actually being in a real plane.
having said that, in regards to buffet kicking in when it's "too late" to escape the terminal dive without resorting to trimming the elevators, you have a point. perhaps the buffet should kick in a sec or 3 before you hit the control lock... easily code-able? i dunno. in a sense the buffet FFB is mere hand candy.
i guess it's a matter of finding the line between normal engine/turbulence and compression. we're getting the compression FFB, not the normal high speed airframe "feel." by all accounts compression effects came on unexpectedly and by then all a pilot could do was whatever he had to survive.. or not.
i'm a little confused why i would expect to feel buffet flying around on the edge.. well, we do, but it's the "stall" buffet force. and it works very well for me... i guess it was an easier physics to code than compression buffet.
what exactly are you wanting? if you're talking more stall than buffet forces, perhaps you have them set too low or too high? too low and u miss it and stall... too high and it's so assertive in the effect that you can still lose it.
i found stall and buffet to work well for me set around 20-30%, while trim 50 - 100%.
Afraid you are wrong if you think buffet is only high speed related . However you won't take my word for it so here is a link to a thread where sudz acknowledges the bug .http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247921.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247921.0.html) Also run a search for stick shaker .
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i'm still trying to wrap my head around where the missing forces you're talking about are and where you expect to expeience them and in what way.
it's failry clear (to me) that both buffeting forces, stall and "buffet," work in conjuction with the visual cues others' receive in the stall/compression areas.
stall enabled = stall buffet felt as it stalls,
buffet enabled = compression shuddering felt
why would i feel "duplicate" buffeting from adding the buffet forces to the stall buffet forces already felt?
i'm curious as to what 2 FF issues are, exactly, tho'
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tape speaker to your joystick :lol
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i'm still trying to wrap my head around where the missing forces you're talking about are and where you expect to expeience them and in what way.
it's failry clear (to me) that both buffeting forces, stall and "buffet," work in conjuction with the visual cues others' receive in the stall/compression areas.
stall enabled = stall buffet felt as it stalls,
buffet enabled = compression shuddering felt
why would i feel "duplicate" buffeting from adding the buffet forces to the stall buffet forces already felt?
i'm curious as to what 2 FF issues are, exactly, tho'
Ok so you think buffet works with visual cues ? You never replied to the post about turning stall off and trying a turn till you buffet . Also check the timing of the onset of visual buffet and stick shake .