Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Serenity on November 09, 2008, 07:03:30 PM
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Alright, im looking to buy myself a new vid-card. I want to try to stay under $250 if possible, and since I dont know anything about computers, I was hoping you all could make a few suggestions as to how to get the most bang for my buck.
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Well I can tell ya now, the tech guys are gonna want/need to know your specs. Motherboard, and PSU mostly.
For 250$ though most of the best cards open up.
:salute
X
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Well I can tell ya now, the tech guys are gonna want/need to know your specs. Motherboard, and PSU mostly.
For 250$ though most of the best cards open up.
:salute
X
AMD Athalon 64 X2
1024MB RAM
320GB HD
NVIDIA GeForce 6150LE right now
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AMD Athalon 64 X2
1024MB RAM
320GB HD
NVIDIA GeForce 6150LE right now
We need to know your PSU wattage (and more importantly the amperage). Open up your computer and look for something like this:
(http://www.bytesizedreviews.com/kuzals/maxtoppsu/psu2.jpg)
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That and your motherboard so we know whether you use PCI-E x16 or an older AGP slot.
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That and your motherboard so we know whether you use PCI-E x16 or an older AGP slot.
I'm guessing Socket 939 and not AMD2. I have a Socket 939 in my basement.
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Is there any way I can find that without opening the comp.?
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ok here is a great list of video cards. You need to make sure you have over 450w power source for new card. I owned ATI 3870, 4870 x 2 and now own Nvidea GTX280.
Here are and articles on ATI 4800 series:
http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd4800/index.html
http://hothardware.com/Articles/ATI-Radeon-HD-4870-X2--AMD-Back-On-Top/
The 4800 series basically is the best generation featuring GDDR5 which has more bandwith. They truely are the best cards out depending what you compare the too. As long as you stay away from crossfiring 2 cards you should be in good shape. I crossfired 2 3870(512) cards and had problems. ATI may have fixed them. Most reviews are giving 4800 a good thumbs up over Nvidea.
The second link shows the 4870 at $175 but the 4830 just got released for a unbelievable $129 rated best bang for buck. The Nvidea 9800gt x 2 and GTX 280 out perform the 4870 but the are very expensive(over $400). The 4870 x 2 outperforms all cards and also is over $400. This said at $129 the 4830 is a great buy.
Once again ncheck your power supply or you may easily ruin your card.
Here is a link on power supplies:
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=58&name=Power-Supplies
I am not good at recommending power supplies. Skuzzy is the master. Some burn out easily but I do own a Thermaltake PS and its nice. Look at the link... The Thermaltake 750w with rebate is $99 and if you need to upgrade in the future, 750w would be good choice!
ATI 4830 $129 + Thermaltake 750W PS $99 puts you where you need to be! I am sure other guys will post more info on power supplies. Remember, price can be a huge result of power supply failing as I understand some are not made very well!
As far as video card goes, I have experience with many models/ Although I own Nvidea GTX280(would not trade it for anything) my recommendation is the 4830. If you do not need power supply the 4870 is better but $50 more you may not need need it.
Good luck!
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Is there any way I can find that without opening the comp.?
Do you have a stock manufacturer PC? Such as Dell, Emachines, HP and so on. If so a name and make works.
If not, for Motherboard specs a free program such as Everest (other people may have been for this) works. As for PSU, I'm sure someone else knows how to find out, unless you know the Model #, those always help with finding specs.
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Do you have a stock manufacturer PC? Such as Dell, Emachines, HP and so on. If so a name and make works.
If not, for Motherboard specs a free program such as Everest (other people may have been for this) works. As for PSU, I'm sure someone else knows how to find out, unless you know the Model #, those always help with finding specs.
Yep, a stock HP. HP Pavilion a1710n.
It CLAIMS to have been designed as a build-upon game computer (Didnt come with all the bells and whistles as their gaming comp., but cost about $500 less and could be upgraded to that standard).
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Power supply spec should be on the unit. Take the side of your case off and check it.
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http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00757531&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&product=3340227
Motherboard description
* Motherboard manufacturer's name: ASUS A8M2N-LA
* HP/Compaq name: NodusM3-GL8E
CPU/Processor
* Socket: AM2
* Supports AMD Athlon 64, Athlon 64 X2, and Sempron processors
Front-side bus (FSB)
* 2000 MegaTransfers/second
Chipset
* GeForce 6150 LE chipset
BIOS features
* Award brand system BIOS
* Keyboard combination to used to enter BIOS: F1
Form factor
* Micro-ATX: 9.6 in X 9.6 in
Memory
* Four 240-pin DDR2 DIMM sockets
* Supports PC 4200 (533 MHz) and PC2 5300 (667 MHz) DDR2 DIMMs
* non-ECC memory only, unbuffered
* Maximum HP/Compaq approved memory is 4 GB*
NOTE: *Actual available memory may be less
Expansion slots
* Three PCI
* One PCI Express x16 graphics
Video graphics
* Integrated
I googled your power supply and I believe you have a 300W power supply. Your integrated video chipsets are never designed for 'real' gaming, especially the Geforce 6150LE. Your basically going to need to replace your power supply for any video card that is going to be good for gaming.
The good news is 1) you have a PCI-E 16x slot and 2) you have open RAM slots. If you really want to upgrade your computer, adding 2 x 1gb DDR2 sticks (total computer will be at 3gb) will really help in performance for the least amount of money. 2 x 1gb DDR2 sticks can run about $20 online. A new power supply (a good brand, non-bargain crap from the back alleys of China) is going to run at least $50-60. And a new video card is dependent on your budget as well. I recommend you read this article and use what is recommended on your budget:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2064-2.html
Some cheaper highlights:
PCI Express Interface: $0 to $90
Best PCIe Card For Below $50:
Passable 1024x768 performance in most games with lowered detail
Radeon HD 4350 Codename: RV630
Process: 65nm
Universal Shaders: 80
Texture Units: 8
ROPs: 4
Memory Bus: 64-bit
Core Speed MHz: 600
Memory Speed MHz: 400 (800 effective)
DirectX / Shader Model DX 10.1 / SM 4.0
The Radeon 4350 joins the list not because it’s a great gaming card, but because it can be found for only $40, while the 9400 GT starts at $50.
The cheapest true gaming cards are the Radeon 2600 XT and 9500 GT, but with these cards at the $60 price point they are impossible to recommend due to the fact that the $80 4670 and 9600 GSO are so much superior for just a few dollars more.
So, this round, the 4350 gets the nod as a baseline gaming card for playing at 1024x768. Frankly, though, it’s better suited as an HTPC card for video playback, low power use, and 7-channel audio over HDMI.
Best PCIe Card For $80: Tie
Good 1600x1200 performance in most games
Radeon HD 4670 GDDR3 Codename: RV730
Process: 55nm
Universal Shaders: 320
Texture Units: 32
ROPs: 8
Memory Bus: 128-bit
Core Speed MHz: 750
Memory Speed MHz: 1000 (2000 effective)
DirectX / Shader Model DX 10.1 / SM 4.0
The Radeon HD 4670 slaps previous generation high-end performance squarely in the jaw of mid-range pricing. With 320 shader processors, this card means business, and will provide awesome 1600x1200 gaming. Compared to the 9600 GSO, its main advantage is a low power requirement. It doesn’t need an external power cable, which for some upgraders is a really important feature.
GeForce 9600 GSO (aka GeForce 8800 GS) Codename: G92
Process: 65nm
Universal Shaders: 96
Texture Units: 48
ROPs: 12
Memory Bus: 192 or 128-bit
Core Speed MHz: 600
Memory Speed MHz: 900 (1800 effective)
DirectX / Shader Model DX 10 / SM 4.0
Previously a high-end card crippled and transformed into a high-to-mid-range card, the release of the Radeon HD 4670 has forced the 9600 GSO to a lower price to remain competitive—which it does. It’s an excellent alternative to the 4670, as long as the buyer compares clock speeds, and makes sure they have one of the desirable models (manufacturers seem to be following the reference speeds very loosely).
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Here's a link to the benchmark charts at Tomshardware.com
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/3DMark06-v1-1-0-3DMark-Score,794.html
Anything that has CF, X2 or SLI after it is a dual card set-up. Skip past those to get to the single card benchmarks.
Here's a link to the best video cards for the money at Tomshardware updated for October:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Best-Graphics-Card,2033.html
Use these two links in combination to select a good benchmarking card at a price that fits your budget.
You will need a new power supply as well. I'd say 450W would be the absolute minimum but more importantly, you'll want it to provide somewhere in the neighborhood of 32-35 combined amps on the 12 volt rails after efficiency reductions. With PSU's you get what you pay for so stay away from the bargain priced units.
PC Power & Cooling, Thermaltake and OCZ seem to make some decent PSU's. Many here, myself included, run PCP&C units. Their 610W PSU might be just the ticket for you ($89):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005
Although you could probably get by with this one ($65):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703015
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Alright... um... this is like reading latin... but harder. Lets say I have a max budget of $350. Can someone design something for me? I have no clue what you all are saying so figuring it out myself is nearly impossible.
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In simple English:
You need a new Power Supply Unit (PSU) to power the new Video Card (GPU, Graphics Processing Unit).
They have listed links to good PSU's and good GPU's. Depending on Budget (now known to be 350$) they have different ideas that work.
That sums it up. :aok
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Get this ($275):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129113
Or this ($265):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005
Or this if you don't want to spend so much ($170):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129112
And this no matter which of the above you choose ($89):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005
Are you sure you're going to be able to connect the power supply? You seem a little intimidated and there's a lot of wiring to connect (not that it's hard or anything).
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Get this ($275):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129113
Or this ($265):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005
Or this if you don't want to spend so much ($170):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129112
And this no matter which of the above you choose ($89):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005
Are you sure you're going to be able to connect the power supply? You seem a little intimidated and there's a lot of wiring to connect (not that it's hard or anything).
I just cannot afford to replace this computer if I frag it, and I have no clue about computers. If there are instructions though, I can follow them. And 1701, I know the basics are simple, but each set combines in a different way, and has different qualities... and I dont speak the language theyre described in.
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I just cannot afford to replace this computer if I frag it, and I have no clue about computers. If there are instructions though, I can follow them. And 1701, I know the basics are simple, but each set combines in a different way, and has different qualities... and I dont speak the language theyre described in.
Then I would suggest you get the lower priced video card and the power supply and bring them along with your computer into Best Buy or your local computer shop to have them installed for you. Call ahead to see what they'll charge you.
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Serenity,
It seems you must be having problems with your system. Although it may be old, it may be salvaged for a year or 2 with basic cleanup,video card, ram and/or power supply. You may not need all of these but let us know what you are running.
Post your computer specs in this forum. I used to run Aces high on Athalon 3000 overclocked to 1.9 ghz with a Nvidea 6800GS(agp) and had no problems. My computer was lean with 16 processes running. Mind you I had graphics in game low but I only ran into slight screen lag in high
traffic areas.
The guys will help you get your existing system running real nice depending how outdated it is. Do not run and get a new computer if you do not have the cash. For $350 or much less, the guys and myself will give you great advice and suggestions to get you up and running nicely.
Go to start/run and type dxdiag in the run box. Save the information and open it in wordpad. Copy the notes and paste them on this thread. Skuzzy,MrRip, BaldEagle, Challenge, Floatsom myself and others will help. I am not an IT pro but have built my second computer and have SOME knowledge. None the less, These guys are pros and we will get ya up!
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Serenity,
It seems you must be having problems with your system. Although it may be old, it may be salvaged for a year or 2 with basic cleanup,video card, ram and/or power supply. You may not need all of these but let us know what you are running.
Post your computer specs in this forum. I used to run Aces high on Athalon 3000 overclocked to 1.9 ghz with a Nvidea 6800GS(agp) and had no problems. My computer was lean with 16 processes running. Mind you I had graphics in game low but I only ran into slight screen lag in high
traffic areas.
The guys will help you get your existing system running real nice depending how outdated it is. Do not run and get a new computer if you do not have the cash. For $350 or much less, the guys and myself will give you great advice and suggestions to get you up and running nicely.
Go to start/run and type dxdiag in the run box. Save the information and open it in wordpad. Copy the notes and paste them on this thread. Skuzzy,MrRip, BaldEagle, Challenge, Floatsom myself and others will help. I am not an IT pro but have built my second computer and have SOME knowledge. None the less, These guys are pros and we will get ya up!
Actually, im not having any problems with my current setup. Its still relatively new, and a HUGE leap up from what I started AH with. I run 1024 x 768 with 1024 texture sizes pretty well. I used to get a frame rate of 60, but when I turned anti-aliasing on, that dropped to 20. My mum just got a job on a big hollywood movie, so shes making piles of money, and since ive never really asked for much, and that I did ask for I only did so if I had great use for it and it was cheap, shes offered to get me anything I like for christmas with a $800 budget. Being me though, I would feel... wrong to spend nearly so much money, so im just going to get myself a nice little upgrade so I can have anti-aliasing on and still get a frame rate around 40-60. Im looking at what baldeagl posted and that seems to be a good deal. Im not at my mum's house and so im not on the computer I will be upgrading, so I cannot post the dxdiag for another 3 weeks though.
Im not really looking for top-of-the-line, basically what I would REALLY love is:
Anti-aliasing
Frame rate of 40+
Run in 1024 x 768
Texture Size of 1024
And do this with full-vis range.
I always have my ground detail range set to minimum while flying just because the trees make the picture look... not right, and I usually have object detail dialed all the way to faster, because everything seems to look the same anyway.
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Still post your system as maybe the uprade in Ram, Video card maybe a better solution!
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Still post your system as maybe the uprade in Ram, Video card maybe a better solution!
I think Fulmar posted my system specs a bit earlier in the thread. The dxdiag will have to wait until I get back.
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I think Fulmar posted my system specs a bit earlier in the thread. The dxdiag will have to wait until I get back.
That I did. If you're going to upgrade your video card, please add an extra 1 or 2 gb of RAM. Adding RAM is a piece of cake to do. Changing a video card is also very easy. Replacing a power supply may be tricky for the first timer. But it's up to you on if you want to do it yourself. Some places charge up the butt on part installs, however easy they are. Last time I checked, Geek Squad charges $35 for a RAM install which takes less time and is easier than brushing your teeth.
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Those "specs" do not give cpu unless I missed something. Please post DXdiag. I think we may be getting too far ahead Fulmar. Lets let him post and see what he is running just in case. Looks like all you may need is a Video card, 1 x 1024 ram(must be matched to your existing ram) and a power supply. As for Video card the 4830 has been rated by numerous professionals as best bang for buck at $129-$150. Add a PSU for $100 and ram which we need your ram installed in your computer to look up. You should be able to get away with under $350.
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Those "specs" do not give cpu unless I missed something. Please post DXdiag. I think we may be getting too far ahead Fulmar. Lets let him post and see what he is running just in case. Looks like all you may need is a Video card, 1 x 1024 ram(must be matched to your existing ram) and a power supply. As for Video card the 4830 has been rated by numerous professionals as best bang for buck at $129-$150. Add a PSU for $100 and ram which we need your ram installed in your computer to look up. You should be able to get away with under $350.
The dxdiag is not going to be possible to get at for another 3 weeks unfortunately, as I wont have access to the computer until then.
Fulmar: I know how to plug RAM in, ive tinkered around the inside of a computer before, but it was one that didnt work anyway, I guess im just afraid to break this one. Does the power supply come with instructions?
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Kinda but not really. All the power hook ups have different connectors so you really cannot screw it up. It's not like you can put a 4 pin molex into a 6 pin connector. If you take your time its not hard. If you have a friend or family member that may have done this have them help you. If not, call your local computer store and inquire how much they charge. I did my first psu many years ago and was noway!!! Im gonna fry this machine but I took my time made sure I reconnected as the first one was a boom done.
IF YOU ARE UNSURE GET HELP!
Another suggestion is this unit by visiontek:
http://www.visiontek.com/products/powersupply/VT_powersupply.html
This is an add on power power supply that is the size of your cd/dvd drive. It is real neat as it slides into your box under your cd/dvd drive. It has a seperate power cord you plug into your wall that goes out thru the back of your computer. All you have to do is install/plug 1-4 pin molex connector from existing power supply into visiontek unit/plug unit to video card and plug visiontek unit into wall. Boom done! This may be the direction to go! Priced at $100:
http://search.a1books.com/cgi-bin/mktSearch?act=showDesc&code=gbase&rel=1&ITEM_CODE=784090024923
Video card is simple. I just found a great deal on Nvidea 9800GT at DELL!! $111
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/category.aspx?c=us&category_id=5406&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&ST=ati&dgc=ST&cid=14700&lid=364234
If you pull the ram out you can easily look at manufacturer and model. You need to match the ram with the same stick. Your motherboard instructions should list the slots to install 2 sticks. If it has 4 slots usually the 1st 2 slots closest to the cpu should be the right ones. Remember it looks like you have 1 stick x 1024 on the ram so go find the same stick x 1024 and your ram should be fine. Easy install
Skippy this should do ya up!!!! :rock
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If it has 4 slots usually the 1st 2 slots closest to the cpu should be the right ones.
Nope. Wrong again. If it's dual channel then the first and third slots would be the right ones.
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Nope. Wrong again. If it's dual channel then the first and third slots would be the right ones.
Correct
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ok i said check instruct.
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Then I would suggest you get the lower priced video card and the power supply and bring them along with your computer into Best Buy or your local computer shop to have them installed for you. Call ahead to see what they'll charge you.
You dont need anything more then an 8800GT and can get by with less. You need to upgrade the power supply to handle the video card. You dont need alot of power. any 450W PS of decent quality is fine....
This PW is fine for $45 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
Looking at Toms hardware they recommend the 9600GSO as best video card under $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121255
$50 after rebate
so you can upgrade both PS and VC for roughly $100
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You dont need anything more then an 8800GT and can get by with less. You need to upgrade the power supply to handle the video card. You dont need alot of power. any 450W PS of decent quality is fine....
This PW is fine for $45 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
Looking at Toms hardware they recommend the 9600GSO as best video card under $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121255
$50 after rebate
so you can upgrade both PS and VC for roughly $100
Yep, that's a decent PSU for the price.
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THE WRONG AGAIN COMMENT really needs to be eliminated! You constantly look for wrong answers and make aurgumentative comments. I thought these forums were to help and if you make a suggestion. If one would catch an error it is nice to be polite. I am trying to help Serenity and I do not think this is the right comment. I will help you:
Drdeath,
Seems the ram needs to be in either slot 1,3 or 2,4 for dual channel. Check the specifications.
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It seems he may have a problem installing a new PSU/ The visiontek add on may be easier for him guys!
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Humble and Baldeagle, he has $350 to spend.... For xmas!!!!! Suggest the best bang for $350! :rock
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THE WRONG AGAIN COMMENT really needs to be eliminated! You constantly look for wrong answers and make aurgumentative comments. I thought these forums were to help and if you make a suggestion. If one would catch an error it is nice to be polite. I am trying to help Serenity and I do not think this is the right comment. I will help you:
Drdeath,
Seems the ram needs to be in either slot 1,3 or 2,4 for dual channel. Check the specifications.
drdeath, I know that you are enthusiasically trying to help people but the fact remains that you consistently offer bad or blatently wrong advice. You've been called out for it in this forum on numerous occasions by several posters.
I will not retract my statement. It's simple truth.
I strongly suggest you research topics in which you have no or limited knowledge or refrain from posting. If you continue on your current path, expect to be called out again (and again).
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Humble and Baldeagle, he has $350 to spend.... For xmas!!!!! Suggest the best bang for $350! :rock
If he were to spend $350 on a video card, his computer would 1) shut down during game play due to lack of power from too small of a power supply, if it booted up 2) still suffer performance issues because he has only 1 gb of RAM. and 3) wasted $350
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Wow... so much different advice! Thanks all! So, Snap, can that $40 PSU handle an additional gig of ram AND the 9600GSO?
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Wow... so much different advice! Thanks all! So, Snap, can that $40 PSU handle an additional gig of ram AND the 9600GSO?
The one humble listed, the OCZ one, would easily handle that video card.
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Fulmar read post. we are adding 1g ram, psu and video card for $350. Sorry about the confusion. He already has 1 g ram.
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The one humble listed, the OCZ one, would easily handle that video card.
You seem to know the most of whats going on here, especially when it comes to my particular computer, so Ill ask you specifically on this one.
Im looking at the PSU humble listed, as well as the graphics card. You've said the PSU is sufficient, do you think the card is as well for what im looking for? And would you suggest I go with this package?
Again, thank you all very much for all this help. I really am clueless when it comes to these matters :(
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I would look at the specs. How many 12v rails and how many amps per rail. OCZ makes great stuff. The Asus card I would stay away from. If you have a problem their RMA is easy once you get them to admit the problem is their product. Spend the few bucs and get a Tagan, Antec, ThermalTake, Mushkin, CoolerMaster or OCZ higher end PSU since this is the most critical component and under rated part of any system. This is most important if you are going to a PCI-e video card/
Here is my list
Thermaltake PurePower RX 550W ATX12V & EPS12V Power Supply
OCZ MODXSTREAM PRO 700W POWER SUPPLY
Thermaltake Toughpower QFan W0151RU ATX12V & EPS12V Power Supply
Tagan TG700-U88 700W BZ Series (Highly recommend)
OCZ Technology GameXStream ATX12V v2.2 & EPS12V Power Supply
Thermaltake Toughpower W0128RU 650W ATX12V v2.2 & EPS 12V Power Supply
MSI GeForce 9600GT Graphics Card: Part #N9600GT T2D512 OC
EVGA e-GeForce 9600 GT Graphics Card: Part #512-P3-N861-TR
XFX GeForce 9600 GSO Graphics Card: Part#PVT96OSDFH (recommend)
GeForce 9800GT OC+ 512MB Part#BFGE98512GTOCPE (Highly Recomend)
I am also a dealer of all the above and pretty uch everything out there. I can almost always beat Newegg on pricing. Let me know. Good luck
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Nice TilDeath... 1 Question . It seems Serenity ever has n ever installed a PSU. Do yo think it may be easier for him to purchase the Visiontek add on PSU I linked in this thread??? He made a comment to that nature. It may be a easier install for him. He said Ram and card should be no problem.
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Nice TilDeath... 1 Question . It seems Serenity ever has n ever installed a PSU. Do yo think it may be easier for him to purchase the Visiontek add on PSU I linked in this thread??? He made a comment to that nature. It may be a easier install for him. He said Ram and card should be no problem.
No matter what he gets he will still have to plug in the connections. And I guess you didnt read what I stated that the PSU is the most important but also overlooked component of any system. Since he has a "Grey Box" (factory built) machine and since the Video card does plug into the mother board although its getting most of its power from the "add in" as you suggest it still will draw current from the mother board hence maybe having problems and havinmg to replace the PSU. Buy a good PSU from the start, it fits in the case not sitting outside or in a 5" bay there is nothing to connecting a PSU and like he stated he said "if there are instructions he can do it". The connections only fit to what they are supposed to fit to. Dont try to put a square peg into a round hole
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The limiting factor here is your CPU, any VC above a certain point is a waste. so yes the 9600GSO is more then enough card. Most systems (even single VC gaming rigs) draw well under 350W's at peak. The key is a quality PS that can handle this peak output without strain and provide "clean" power...the unit listed will meet any and all needs you'll have with your current box....if you can fit it in the case it will handle it.
I do not get into "brand wars" based on anyone's particular issues. One persons issue is not anothers. Now certain brands have a well deserved reputation worth paying a bit extra for but as a rule VC's are only manufactured by a handful of companies and most are just private label from the same sources (not all). For example Sapphire makes (or did make) all "ATI" branded cards as well as a bunch of others. nothing at all wrong with that ASUS card.
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Humble and Baldeagle, he has $350 to spend.... For xmas!!!!! Suggest the best bang for $350! :rock
The problem is you dont appear to understand how a computer works specific to AH and gaming in general. His computer is CPU limited and that limits his ability to upgrade. given the quick development and his circumstances minimal consideration to an upward path is given. If he didnt have a nvidia chipset I'd consider an ATI card as better bang for the buck however minimal gain isnt worth the possible conflicts.
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The limiting factor here is your CPU, any VC above a certain point is a waste. so yes the 9600GSO is more then enough card. Most systems (even single VC gaming rigs) draw well under 350W's at peak. The key is a quality PS that can handle this peak output without strain and provide "clean" power...the unit listed will meet any and all needs you'll have with your current box....if you can fit it in the case it will handle it.
I do not get into "brand wars" based on anyone's particular issues. One persons issue is not anothers. Now certain brands have a well deserved reputation worth paying a bit extra for but as a rule VC's are only manufactured by a handful of companies and most are just private label from the same sources (not all). For example Sapphire makes (or did make) all "ATI" branded cards as well as a bunch of others. nothing at all wrong with that ASUS card.
Asus does make good components, I own several. The thing with them is that if you do have an RMA they are hard to deal with. Then tend to blame other componets before taking blame. eVGA has a no questions asked thing plus their 90 day step up program.
I agree his limiting factor is the CPU, but if he gets a good PSU and decent Video Card, he can maybe use them in a build down the road. Either way I dont believe an expansion or add-in PSU is the route for him to go IMO.
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You seem to know the most of whats going on here, especially when it comes to my particular computer, so Ill ask you specifically on this one.
Im looking at the PSU humble listed, as well as the graphics card. You've said the PSU is sufficient, do you think the card is as well for what im looking for? And would you suggest I go with this package?
Again, thank you all very much for all this help. I really am clueless when it comes to these matters :(
I know everything in this thread may be hard to digest because you've got 5 people telling you what to do. So I understand if you've having a tough time deciding, especially when you may be a little green in the computer parts department. Whatever you do choose, just keep in mind its going to be a much better improvement over your current computer, guaranteed.
The one key thing I would do before hitting the buy button is we need to check something that TilDeath alluded to. That is checking the physical size of your power supply in your computer. I know your computer is a Micro-Atx size and is smaller than the more common Mid-Size ATX. Occasionally, you will find that in Micro-ATX cases that power supplies are smaller than the more common standard size ones. What I'd like you to do is open up the side of your computer and get the Length, Height and Width dimensions of that little gray box power supply. I'd like to make sure the size of your PSU before you do any upgrading or hitting the buy button.
Standard ATX power supply dimensions will usually be in the range of 3.25" x 6" x 5.5" (H x W x D) while typical Micro ATX power supply dimensions are in the range of 2.5" x 5" x 4" (H x W x D). We don't want to order the wrong one.
Hypothetically, if you were to order your parts and you had a standard size PSU, here is what I would recommend as a modest budget. IMO, I wouldn't drop too much money in the video department because it may be a waste because of your PSU. I believe you have an AMD 4200+ X2 processor. Now it is a good CPU, but if were were to drop $$$ on a video card, your CPU would not perform up to par with the $$$ videro card = wasted money. Also, I hear your concenrs about not wanting to blow it all away on just this. So what I'm recommending is modest and not over the top.
Video Card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150320
XFX PVT96OSDFH GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB 192-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
$109.99 - $30 MIR= $79.99
I like XFX over humble's Asus card because XFX offers a lifetime warranty and Asus does not. Lifetime warranties are always very nice and have come in handy more than once in my experience.
PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
$79.99 - $35 MIR = $44.99
RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148163
Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
$24.99
No need for more expensive stuff here, we're not overclocking your computer and this stuff will fit the bill just nicely. A 2gb upgrade, total 3gb system will be a VERY nice increase in speed. Especially if you're on Vista.
Total before MIR: $214.97
Total after MIR: $149.97
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Serenity, as Fulmar posted it's hard to know what to do with so many people suggesting things. My advice would be Follow the general lines Fulmar and BaldEagl have. Not to say anyone else is bad to listen to, but they seem to be the most knowledgeable of the Tech support around here, next to Skuzzy of course. :D
As for replacing the PSU, it's not so hard as it looks. I replaced my first PSU back in March and have replaced it 3 times since.
Some simple things to do: Of course have the PC Powered off and unplugged from everything before this.
-Open the case and simply look around inside the case and study it for a bit. Get a good idea what is connected to what. Where Wires go.
-Attempt to find out where the PSU will slide out, visually. See where it is blocked, and obviously will not come out. Figure out if there are multiple ways.
-Take notes if needed for where wires are going, and what is connected to everything. Just see what type of wire goes where.
-If needed test how to remove some of the wires safely. Such as the 20/24-pin Motherboard connection has a clip, while 4-pins simply pull out.
Safety:
-Make sure to be grounded if you decide to touch anything.
-Don't pull on the wires to remove a plug that is in too snug, simply wiggle it out slowly and carefully.
-Don't have food/drink anywhere nearby.
-When removing the PSU be sure not to accidentally drop the screwdriver inside the PC. May sound dumb, but I lost a Motherboard to that.
Of course I am no expert. Simply ask around if you have a problem in that little box. :aok
Please don't take my path, Trial and Error. It cost me 2 Motherboards, 3 PSUs and 2 CPUs over the past year or two.
Also, Fulmar quick question: I have a Micro-ATX form, and use a ATX PSU, should it not fit due to that? (Assuming the Specs are right it's ATX.)
:salute
"If it isn't working, don't force it"
X
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Tildeath made best suggestions. He can get the hardware under/close to online prices. If you have a problem, I am sure he will help out. BTW the visiontek add on psu installs in box and is same size as a dvd/cd player. It actually mounts in slots inside computer box. I would definitely use Tildeath. He is trustworthy. Most of us are making suggestions from buying online with nice pricing then you have to deal with RMA's if anything is bad.
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Also, Fulmar quick question: I have a Micro-ATX form, and use a ATX PSU, should it not fit due to that? (Assuming the Specs are right it's ATX.)
It depends on the computer case. There are computer that are micro-ATX cases but have a full size PSU (which is more common). Occasionally, you'll come across a micro-ATX case that needs a Micro-ATX PSU. As long as it fits in the case, there is no reason for concern. They work the same way, just have physical size differences. The two Micro-ATX computers I've own, a 466mhz Dell (now in computer heaven) used a full size PSU. My other one, an IBM Aptiva 550mhz (serves as my linux firewall box) also uses a full size PSU.
And like I said, it depends on the cases physical dimensions. More often than not, OEM computer with non-traditional shapes (really skinny or what not) use these smaller PSU's.
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I know everything in this thread may be hard to digest because you've got 5 people telling you what to do. So I understand if you've having a tough time deciding, especially when you may be a little green in the computer parts department. Whatever you do choose, just keep in mind its going to be a much better improvement over your current computer, guaranteed.
The one key thing I would do before hitting the buy button is we need to check something that TilDeath alluded to. That is checking the physical size of your power supply in your computer. I know your computer is a Micro-Atx size and is smaller than the more common Mid-Size ATX. Occasionally, you will find that in Micro-ATX cases that power supplies are smaller than the more common standard size ones. What I'd like you to do is open up the side of your computer and get the Length, Height and Width dimensions of that little gray box power supply. I'd like to make sure the size of your PSU before you do any upgrading or hitting the buy button.
Standard ATX power supply dimensions will usually be in the range of 3.25" x 6" x 5.5" (H x W x D) while typical Micro ATX power supply dimensions are in the range of 2.5" x 5" x 4" (H x W x D). We don't want to order the wrong one.
Hypothetically, if you were to order your parts and you had a standard size PSU, here is what I would recommend as a modest budget. IMO, I wouldn't drop too much money in the video department because it may be a waste because of your PSU. I believe you have an AMD 4200+ X2 processor. Now it is a good CPU, but if were were to drop $$$ on a video card, your CPU would not perform up to par with the $$$ videro card = wasted money. Also, I hear your concenrs about not wanting to blow it all away on just this. So what I'm recommending is modest and not over the top.
Video Card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150320
XFX PVT96OSDFH GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB 192-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
$109.99 - $30 MIR= $79.99
I like XFX over humble's Asus card because XFX offers a lifetime warranty and Asus does not. Lifetime warranties are always very nice and have come in handy more than once in my experience.
PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
$79.99 - $35 MIR = $44.99
RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148163
Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
$24.99
No need for more expensive stuff here, we're not overclocking your computer and this stuff will fit the bill just nicely. A 2gb upgrade, total 3gb system will be a VERY nice increase in speed. Especially if you're on Vista.
Total before MIR: $214.97
Total after MIR: $149.97
Well, this one sounds great to me. TillDeath, do you supply any of this? If im going to give my money to anyone, id rather it be a fellow AH junkie :)
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Rock on Serenity!!
:rock
:rock :rock
:rock :rock :rock
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Just to throw my .02 into the fray. I have a HP a1410n. I believe it would have most (if not all) of the same stock internals that you have at the moment. It came with an onboard Nvidia 6150LE...knew that wasn't going to float so I headed to Best Buy to see what I could kick up. Purchased a GeForce 7900GS and an Antec Tru-Power Trio while I was there. The PSU is 430W, but as long as my memory serves me correctly, it has 36A on the +12V rail. Which is plenty to run even today's higher end cards. The video card has been able to handle just about anything I can throw it's way. Runs Bioshock almost maxed out at a playable framerate, doesn't have much trouble with Fallout 3, has zero problems with AH2. I basically managed to turn my run of the mill HP computer into a "ghetto gaming" rig. Bumped up the RAM from 1gig to 2.5gigs somewhere in there as well. I have a 9800GT on the way along with a 22" widescreen, can't wait to see what this new card will do for my games. And if it struggles, it's time to order (screw Best Buy) a new PSU!
I would imagine the Antec PSU has dropped in price since I bought mine (around $90...at Best Buy, been probably about a year now). It has more plugs than most normal users would ever need. I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that my new 9800GT will arrive tomorrow, and if it does, I'll give a prompt update on how the PSU/Card are working out.
edit: TilDeath, with you being in Atlanta (I'm in upstate SC), I may just hit you up at some point. Most likely upgrade I'll need in the near-ish future would be a new PSU. Could also stand to get some paired RAM. Do you own a store in Atlanta?
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Toof... 9800GT is an awesome card. Make sure you get updated drivers. I think the drivers for vid card is 178.25 version. I may be wrong... Check Nvidea website.
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Heres my new one............if I ever get a chance to get it in ;)
Its a BIG one :D ...... thats a 81/2x11 sheet of paper its siiting on
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd319/bonehead069/P1010185.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd319/bonehead069/P1010189.jpg)
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http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00757531&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&product=3340227
Motherboard description
* Motherboard manufacturer's name: ASUS A8M2N-LA
* HP/Compaq name: NodusM3-GL8E
CPU/Processor
* Socket: AM2
* Supports AMD Athlon 64, Athlon 64 X2, and Sempron processors
Front-side bus (FSB)
* 2000 MegaTransfers/second
Chipset
* GeForce 6150 LE chipset
BIOS features
* Award brand system BIOS
* Keyboard combination to used to enter BIOS: F1
Form factor
* Micro-ATX: 9.6 in X 9.6 in
Memory
* Four 240-pin DDR2 DIMM sockets
* Supports PC 4200 (533 MHz) and PC2 5300 (667 MHz) DDR2 DIMMs
* non-ECC memory only, unbuffered
* Maximum HP/Compaq approved memory is 4 GB*
NOTE: *Actual available memory may be less
Expansion slots
* Three PCI
* One PCI Express x16 graphics
Video graphics
* Integrated
I googled your power supply and I believe you have a 300W power supply. Your integrated video chipsets are never designed for 'real' gaming, especially the Geforce 6150LE. Your basically going to need to replace your power supply for any video card that is going to be good for gaming.
The good news is 1) you have a PCI-E 16x slot and 2) you have open RAM slots. If you really want to upgrade your computer, adding 2 x 1gb DDR2 sticks (total computer will be at 3gb) will really help in performance for the least amount of money. 2 x 1gb DDR2 sticks can run about $20 online. A new power supply (a good brand, non-bargain crap from the back alleys of China) is going to run at least $50-60. And a new video card is dependent on your budget as well. I recommend you read this article and use what is recommended on your budget:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2064-2.html
Well, I lost my $300 budget to a lack-of-work for my parents. No biggie, it just means I have to buy my upgrade myself. I've got a VERY expensive summer coming up and I want to try to keep this new price down to as close to $100 as possible...
Based on this info, I just got back from BestBuy, and they have some 1GB RAM chips for about $20 each and an NVIDIA 8400GT for $74. Can I get away with purchasing and installing these WITHOUT having to buy a new PSU? Is the 8400 even worth $74? (I'm completely computer illeterate, so I have no clue what all the bells and whistles mean).
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You can order an 8500 from newegg for $45 after mail-in rebate.
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You can order an 8500 from newegg for $45 after mail-in rebate.
Can my PSU handle it?
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Considering the 8500 is not a very intensive card, I would guess your system can handle it. Way better than integrated, though!!
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Considering the 8500 is not a very intensive card, I would guess your system can handle it. Way better than integrated, though!!
Yeah, I was gonna just hold off for two more years and live with my 6150, but with the 4-5 games I own that barely run on it, the AH terrain updates, and the copy of Medal of Honor: Airborne I picked up for $20 (I bought the $20 box set of all the Medal of Honor PC games for their 10th anniversary) I figure I might as well. The more I run over it in my head, the more I'm looking at that $145 pack... I've got $100 to spare right now, and a $48 paycheck coming to me...
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Two video card choices at $45 each:
EVGA 512-P3-N954-TR GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130378
Minimum of a 350 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amp Amps.)
SAPPHIRE 100253L Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102805
400 Watt or greater power supply
Not sure how good this PSU is but it appears to have enough power to run those cards ($30):
Thermaltake Purepower W0100RU 500W ATX 12V 2.0 Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052
+3.3V@22A,+5V@32A,+12V1@14A,+12V2@15A,
-12V@0.3A,+5VSB@2A
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Wow, thanks Bald! Any other opinions on the package Bald found vs Fulmar's package? I really don't know what all the the numbers mean so I'm relying on you all to show me the way to go.
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I really don't know what all the the numbers mean so I'm relying on you all to show me the way to go.
You've been doing this for a couple of years... Time to learn :aok
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You've been doing this for a couple of years... Time to learn :aok
lol. And just how would I do that?
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lol. And just how would I do that?
Same way most others do... Read up on it (do some research online), learn what the standards are, what they mean, etc. Then try some stuff out. Use the computer to do more than gaming and blogging (or whatever it is you do with your computer). Search for computer optimization, and research some of the settings. Learn how to set up a network. Download a linux installation, run it off of the live cd or install it on a second hard drive, and get it working well enough to do everything you use windows for (it's completely possible to do this).
You just have to look at the computer as a system of systems that can be used to do your bidding, not just a fancy appliance that lets you use a web browser and play games. And you have to try stuff. If you don't know something, you have to take a little time to look it up. Don't stop with one website about the topic either, look at a few different ones. And then try it out.
Oh yea, it helps if you do this on a computer that isn't used for critical tasks... Wrecking your mom's computer isn't helpful. Use some beater computer or better yet, go to garage sales and buy enough parts to build your own cheapo beater computer. Linux runs just fine on computer hardware that is 15 years old, so that's a great place to learn a LOT about computers.
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Same way most others do... Read up on it (do some research online), learn what the standards are, what they mean, etc. Then try some stuff out. Use the computer to do more than gaming and blogging (or whatever it is you do with your computer). Search for computer optimization, and research some of the settings. Learn how to set up a network. Download a linux installation, run it off of the live cd or install it on a second hard drive, and get it working well enough to do everything you use windows for (it's completely possible to do this).
You just have to look at the computer as a system of systems that can be used to do your bidding, not just a fancy appliance that lets you use a web browser and play games. And you have to try stuff. If you don't know something, you have to take a little time to look it up. Don't stop with one website about the topic either, look at a few different ones. And then try it out.
Oh yea, it helps if you do this on a computer that isn't used for critical tasks... Wrecking your mom's computer isn't helpful. Use some beater computer or better yet, go to garage sales and buy enough parts to build your own cheapo beater computer. Linux runs just fine on computer hardware that is 15 years old, so that's a great place to learn a LOT about computers.
Yeah... only computers I have to play with are quite new, and rather expensive. I really don't have the money to buy myself a computer JUST for tinkering. I've tried doing some research, but honestly I just find it more confusing the more I look. I'm thinking of taking some computer classes in college though, but for now, I just want to build myself something decent to game on for a few years.
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Aces High II is fill-rate limited, where the performance of the game is directly tied to the fill-rate of the video card.
Memory performance, of a video card, will have an effect in Aces High II as well.
Quote from Skuzzy when i was trying to get my card settings adjusted. So i guess if you're still looking for a card in a certain price range, and AHII is your main game, then these are two things that you can use to measure one card against another.
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Quote from Skuzzy when i was trying to get my card settings adjusted. So i guess if you're still looking for a card in a certain price range, and AHII is your main game, then these are two things that you can use to measure one card against another.
The single greatest video card specification in determining performance is memory bandwidth expressed in Gb/s which is directly tied to memory type (DDR2/DDR3, etc.) and memory speed (expressed in Mhz). Unfortunately, this is not a spec that's listed on the retail web-sites but the memory type and speed typically are. I'm not sure about ATI but eVGA does list this spec for all current products on their web-site. Pixel pipelines are also important as I'll explain in the first paragraph below.
For the stock 9500 GT, 9600 GT and 9800 GT their memory bandwidths are 25.6 Gb/s, 57.6 Gb/s and 57.6 Gb/s respectively. The substantiating difference in the 9800 GT over the 9600 GT are their 112 vs 64 pixel pipelines respectively. Pixel pipelines affect pixel and texture fill-rate which is important in 3D applications/gaming by increasing the pixel/texel per clock performance. If the applicaton you are running isn't 3D, the 9600 should give performance similar to the 9800. The price differential is about $20 as you step up from one of these cards to the next so the 9600 GT provides the best value from a price/performance perspective for normal computing but the 9800 is a worthy upgrade if gaming.
When comparing similar cards, the 9800 GTX, 9800 GTX+ and 9800GTX+ Superclocked, the memory bandwidths are 70.4 Gb/s, 70.4 Gb/s and 71.8 Gb/s repectively. The 9800 GTX and 9800 GTX+ both have effective RAM speeds of 2200 Mhz although the GPU clock on the 9800 GTX+ is 740Mhz vs 675Mhz for the 9800 GTX. Obviously the RAM speed is the limiting factor between these cards. I'd expect performance to be similar but the GTX+ should be able to handle slightly more difficult processing. The 9800 GTX Superclocked has a faster GPU (756 Mhz) and faster RAM (2246 Mhz) and should be the better of these three cards. The price differential between these cards is only $10 as you step from one to the next. and the statistics bear this performance difference out. Tomshardware shows only a 3% performance gain in FPS (3Dmark) going from the 9800 GTX to the GTX+. If it were me I'd save the money on the GTX+, buy the GTX and overclock it myself. If you're not comfortable doing that then spending the $20 for the factory overclocked version is a reasonable price to pay.
Finally, as we look at different memory configurations the 9600 GT 512 and the 9600 GT 1024 both have GPU clocks of 650 Mhz, Effective RAM speeds of 1800 Mhz and memory bandwidths of 57.6 Gb/s. Performance wise these cards should be very similar unless you are using V-RAM intesive programs or proccesses (video editing, etc.) at which point the 9600 GT 1024 makes sense but for $45 more I'd want to make sure that's the case (AH won't use that much memory; 512 Mb is certainly sufficient).
These particular cards were used only for the purposes of providing examples. Finding benchmark tests to substantiate what you think the stats are telling you is always a good idea.
[EDIT] Of course I could be wrong but those are my observations.
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The price differential between these cards is only $10 as you step from one to the next.
First off, thank you so much for this write-up. Its sorta making sense now... Where did you find such a cheap price on a 9800? Im looking at a 9600 for about 79.99, since I havn't found anything better that even comes close to that price, and the min. requirement I have on one of my games is a 6600.
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First off, thank you so much for this write-up. Its sorta making sense now... Where did you find such a cheap price on a 9800? Im looking at a 9600 for about 79.99, since I havn't found anything better that even comes close to that price, and the min. requirement I have on one of my games is a 6600.
I didn't give a price on the 9800 did I? For th eprice differentials I was using the full bloat retail pricing from the eVGA website. IIRC the 9800 GT is just over $100 and the GTX is around $150.
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I didn't give a price on the 9800 did I? For th eprice differentials I was using the full bloat retail pricing from the eVGA website. IIRC the 9800 GT is just over $100 and the GTX is around $150.
I thought you meant the 9800 was $10 more than the 9600, was $10 more than the 9500
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Serenity,
Don't even think of the 9500 or 9600. The 9800 is a great card but I will tell you this, Why spend all that money for just Aces High. I owned 3 different card configurations in last 6 months. You will need a new PSU with the Nvidea cards.The ATI 3870 is more than adequate to run Aces High. ATI recommends a 300 W or better PSU for 3870.You will probably be "OK" with your PSU. ATI cards demand less power than Nvidea. With all due respect to all the others(VERY KNOWLEDGABLE) but I owned an ATI 3870, ATI 4870 and Nvidea GTX280. I will recommend ATI 4350 for $50 but here is a real "HOT BUY"! ATI 4650 1G card for $83. These 2 will be best bang for buck.I believe the 4000 series requires a 400W power supply. Lets do the math: 450W psu can be bout appr. $50 = 4350 ATI card= $100. Cheap! 4650 1G card $83 = 450W psu @ $50 $123= BEST BANG FOR BUCK! Remember all other cards are 512.
http://www.xpcgear.com/gigabyte-4650-1gb-600mhz-gv-r465oc-1gi-crossfirex-hdmi-video-card.html
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Serenity,
Don't even think of the 9500 or 9600. The 9800 is a great card but I will tell you this, Why spend all that money for just Aces High. I owned 3 different card configurations in last 6 months. You will need a new PSU with the Nvidea cards.The ATI 3870 is more than adequate to run Aces High. ATI recommends a 300 W or better PSU for 3870.You will probably be "OK" with your PSU. ATI cards demand less power than Nvidea. With all due respect to all the others(VERY KNOWLEDGABLE) but I owned an ATI 3870, ATI 4870 and Nvidea GTX280. I will recommend ATI 4350 for $50 but here is a real "HOT BUY"! ATI 4650 1G card for $83. These 2 will be best bang for buck.I believe the 4000 series requires a 400W power supply. Lets do the math: 450W psu can be bout appr. $50 = 4350 ATI card= $100. Cheap! 4650 1G card $83 = 450W psu @ $50 $123= BEST BANG FOR BUCK! Remember all other cards are 512.
http://www.xpcgear.com/gigabyte-4650-1gb-600mhz-gv-r465oc-1gi-crossfirex-hdmi-video-card.html
One should also remember that 1G ram on lower end cards is a marketing ploy with no real world benefits. Memory bandwith is the limiting factor.
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One should also remember that 1G ram on lower end cards is a marketing ploy with no real world benefits. Memory bandwith is the limiting factor.
You mainly see it in the ever lower end cards like 4650 and the 9400's. As you mentioned memory bandwidth is the key here. These cards are using only DDR2 (which is so cheap right now that MFGers can easily add more ram for only $5 more.
The applications where you need that extra ram aren't always there. They'll help in certain programs where you need a lot of textures loaded etc, but the games that have these high memory requirements generally over tax the speed of these lower end cards. That's why benchmark results between these 512 and 1gb DDR2 cards are pretty small.
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Serenity,
Don't even think of the 9500 or 9600. The 9800 is a great card but I will tell you this, Why spend all that money for just Aces High. I owned 3 different card configurations in last 6 months. You will need a new PSU with the Nvidea cards.The ATI 3870 is more than adequate to run Aces High. ATI recommends a 300 W or better PSU for 3870.You will probably be "OK" with your PSU. ATI cards demand less power than Nvidea. With all due respect to all the others(VERY KNOWLEDGABLE) but I owned an ATI 3870, ATI 4870 and Nvidea GTX280. I will recommend ATI 4350 for $50 but here is a real "HOT BUY"! ATI 4650 1G card for $83. These 2 will be best bang for buck.I believe the 4000 series requires a 400W power supply. Lets do the math: 450W psu can be bout appr. $50 = 4350 ATI card= $100. Cheap! 4650 1G card $83 = 450W psu @ $50 $123= BEST BANG FOR BUCK! Remember all other cards are 512.
http://www.xpcgear.com/gigabyte-4650-1gb-600mhz-gv-r465oc-1gi-crossfirex-hdmi-video-card.html
The 9600 is only $79.99, so do those cards provide the same quality?
This isn't JUST for Aces High, I have several other games as well, one has a minimum capability of an NVIDIA 6600, so...
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Tell us what other games you have in mind. If it's a more popular newer game, you can find plenty of benchmarks and you can see how the cards stack up.
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Tell us what other games you have in mind. If it's a more popular newer game, you can find plenty of benchmarks and you can see how the cards stack up.
Ill just list everything I own (Theres not much):
World in Conflict
Pacific Storm: Allies (This one I REALLY want to run well)
Call of Duty
Call of Duty United Offensive
Aces High
Medal of Honor (Original, and both Spearhead and Breakthrough expansions)
Medal of Honor Pacific Assault
Medal of Honor Airborne
Stronghold 2
Stronghold Legends
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The 9600 should do just fine but you will have to get a better PSU too.
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First off, thank you so much for this write-up. Its sorta making sense now... Where did you find such a cheap price on a 9800? Im looking at a 9600 for about 79.99, since I havn't found anything better that even comes close to that price, and the min. requirement I have on one of my games is a 6600.
Serenity the 4670 outperforms the 9600GSO but a little behind 9600GT, the 4650 is close. All these guys are recommending Nvidea which I have but you will get a better bang for the buck with ATI cards I recommended. The 9600GT was deactivated by Newegg(???)Here is some raw data:
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/vidcard1.jpg)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/videocard2.jpg)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/videocard3.jpg)
9400=DOG 9500=DOG
I feel the real slam dunk winner is the 4650 1g card I posted earlier. Although the performance numbers do not show here it will probably be close to the 4670 for $83. The ATI 3870(DDR3) which I owned, is around $100 and that outperformed em all and even the 4830 which is better, runs $100-$140 but now your getting to the price of the 9800GT. If you want to stay around $100 the 4650(1G) or the 3870(512 DDR3) is your best buy. Everybody recommends what they like but the numbers here do not lie. Remember, I own an NVidea GTX280 and I recommend one of these ATI cards. Reason: For the money, it looks like they win depending what you want to spend. It may be interpretation but you decide for yourself. Ask the others if they owned ATI and Nvidea. I would bet the house most only owned NVidea so of course they will not recommend ATI. I did like my 3870. I ran full anti alias at 16X perfectly. Ran 250-300 FPS with low anti alias and Vsync off in AH. Full boat(16X) vsync off, around 125-175 FPS. With Vsync on ran at my full refresh rate with no loss of FPS.
Death
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You have a point with those numbers... here are the four cards that are withing my budget for a video card (Im also buying a new PSU and RAM).
Which of these four cards will be the best buy? (I think the 9600GT sounds best, but It's hard to tell):
EVGA 512-P3-N963-TR GeForce 9600 GSO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $64.99
Galaxy 96GFF6HUUEXV GeForce 9600 GT OC 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $74.99
POWERCOLOR AX3870 512MD3-PH Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $71.99
SAPPHIRE 100225L Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $79.99
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You have a point with those numbers... here are the four cards that are withing my budget for a video card (Im also buying a new PSU and RAM).
Which of these four cards will be the best buy? (I think the 9600GT sounds best, but It's hard to tell):
EVGA 512-P3-N963-TR GeForce 9600 GSO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $64.99
Galaxy 96GFF6HUUEXV GeForce 9600 GT OC 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $74.99
POWERCOLOR AX3870 512MD3-PH Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $71.99
SAPPHIRE 100225L Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
PRICE: $79.99
If you can get the 3870 for $80, that's the golden one. You see the performance on the charts. Like I said, I owned it and it was a nice card! Sapphire is a better card. Never heard of the other company. You may be able to get away with your 300W power supply too. Stay tuned, I will check.
:aok
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If you can get the 3870 for $80, that's the golden one. You see the performance on the charts. Like I said, I owned it and it was a nice card! Sapphire is a better card. Never heard of the other company. You may be able to get away with your 300W power supply too. Stay tuned, I will check.
:aok
Alright, unless anyone has numbers or reasoning to the contrary, its the SAPHIRE. My order goes out on Saturday. Thanks!
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Looks like 450W standard.
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Bah... I hate rebate deadlines. The PSU rebate ended today, so I will have to see what else meets my requirements.