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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 68Wooley on November 12, 2008, 07:51:12 PM

Title: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: 68Wooley on November 12, 2008, 07:51:12 PM
So, I just read the Royal Navy shot and killed a couple of suspected Somali Pirates in their dhow. WTG fellas.

However, there's something I don't get about all these ship hijackings. If I'm the captain of a multi-thousand ton vessel and I'm confronted by a couple of malnourished twits waving AK's in a barely afloat 30 year old Zodiac who want me stop, I've gotta say, my response is likely to be to give them the bird, retreat indoors and continue on my merry way. I just can't see how they board a moving ship and I can't really see why an AK is going to be much of a threat without the crew putting themselves out in the open.

Am I missing something about their MO?

Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Noir on November 12, 2008, 08:07:44 PM
rocket launchers
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Fulmar on November 12, 2008, 08:21:26 PM
rocket launchers
(http://www.somalilandtimes.net/199/img/pirates.jpg)
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: eagl on November 12, 2008, 08:34:02 PM
Funny thing, the most effective defensive weapon so far has been firefighting equipment :)  I guess a well-aimed hose has about the same range and better accuracy than an RPG fired from a dinghy.

Personally, I figure they should put 3-man Seal teams on a random selection of cargo vessels, armed with a .50 and some portable anti-armor (TOW equivalent) weapons.  Invite the pirates in a bit, pop open a hatch and kablooi.

And the best part - don't publicize any of it, especially if they actually blow up some pirates.  Pirates simply disappearing without a trace will be a pretty good deterrent.  And any captain on any boat in international waters has the authority to execute pirates, so it's even more legal than shooting an armed intruder in your own house (which you can't do in many countries, but those countries recognize the ultimate authority of a captain on the high seas).

Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Curval on November 12, 2008, 08:47:59 PM
Not sure I agree that you shouldn't publicise it, frankly I think youtube should have a special section dedicated to pirates being dealt with as you describe.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 12, 2008, 09:00:00 PM
These guys aren't real pirates...I don't see a parrot on any of their shoulders or an eye patch.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Delirium on November 12, 2008, 10:45:06 PM
Merchant Marines are the way to go... start putting some .50 cal (stowed in lockers but mounts in place on bow and stern) on even cruise ships with a few men that are qualified to operate them.

Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: 1pLUs44 on November 12, 2008, 10:52:29 PM
OR... they could teach the crew how to shoot, put a cheap-o gun (or personalized) on their. Maybe like a personal rifle or AK or something, and say to them "good luck"

I'd run over someone if they were in a dinghy that small.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: edog1977 on November 12, 2008, 10:58:49 PM
Run over the dinghy?  That's like a Lanc trying to out turn an A6M.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: 1pLUs44 on November 12, 2008, 11:10:07 PM
Wouldn't be hard to swamp it. And if they shoot an RPG at you, they'll do it themselves.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Curlew on November 13, 2008, 02:21:21 AM
Well a container ship isnt allowed to carry much in the way of weapons, think the rulling is the captain can have a shotgun and a pistol, and the pirates get up on grappling hooks.

Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 13, 2008, 02:35:25 AM
Merchant Marines are the way to go... start putting some .50 cal (stowed in lockers but mounts in place on bow and stern) on even cruise ships with a few men that are qualified to operate them.




One cruise line company that operates in the area uses a 'sonic' defense system on all of its cruise ships in that region.  A couple of years ago pirates tried to board one of their ships and the ship's crew used the sonic defense system.  They were able to stop the pirates from boarding and then used the cruise ships speed to out run the pirate boats. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Sailor on November 13, 2008, 02:41:11 AM
I keep track of the piracy situation in the Gulf of Aden since I'm a cadet at Cal Maritime.  As per the geneva convention merchant ships can't be armed.  This is so that they can claim protection as a non combantant.  As Curlew mentioned the captain can keep a shotgun and pistol, mainly for signaling purposes.  The most effective weapons most ships have to deter borders are fire hoses and fire axes.  As was previously mentioned a cruise company had sonic defenses and other non lethal defenses but those are expensive and companies are profit driven.  That doesn't do you much good against AK47's and RPG's.  A ship can't out maneuver a small maneuverable open skiff that the pirates use, and they have grappling hooks to climb on board with.  The only thing a merchant ship can really do to keep them off is hope that a naval vessel is near by.

The piracy in the Gulf of Aden has gotten so bad that now sailors transiting the area earn the equivalent of war zone pay bonuses.  The Brits have finally gotten it right and allowed their ships to engage suspected pirates before they take action.  Up until this point a naval vessel could not fire upon pirates unless they observed an act of piracy or were fired upon first.  

They can't arrest pirates because they're afraid that when they get back to the states or the UK they will claim political asylum.  It's really a tricky situation to which the only real solution is to get Somalia back on its feet.  Since the Gulf of Aden fisheries have been fished out the only way for the somali ex fishermen to make a living is through piracy.  Fishing villages have now become pirate hang outs.  Take a look at all the pictures of pirate skiffs and the motherships and they're all old fishing boats.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Rich46yo on November 13, 2008, 05:38:41 AM
Quote
They can't arrest pirates because they're afraid that when they get back to the states or the UK they will claim political asylum.  It's really a tricky situation to which the only real solution is to get Somalia back on its feet.


They have never once been "on their feet" so how can you " get them back on their feet"? This solution of yours is right out of the UN press releases if you ask me. Let me tell you something about criminals. They dont become honest citizens when the local paper starts advertising job openings.

The only solution is to start arming the freighter crews. But the fact that they cant be is typical of any dribble coming out of the UN. We can call this Somali thing the INTL equivalent of big city gun control.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: MiloMorai on November 13, 2008, 07:41:19 AM
Somali pirates are minor irritants compared to the piracy that occurs in the area of south east Asia.

(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/images/pirates-020219.gif)

The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) reports worldwide pirate attacks fell for the third year in a row in 2006. Attacks on ships at sea in 2006 fell to 239 vessels, down from 276 in 2005. That same trend echoed in the Strait of Malacca where attacks dropped from 79 in 2005 to 50 in 2006. Nonetheless, in 2004, the region accounted for 40% of piracy worldwide. The IMB reported in October 2007 that Indonesia continued to be the world's most pirate-struck region with 37 attacks since January 2007, though an improvement from the same nine month period of 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_the_Strait_of_Malacca
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: RTHolmes on November 13, 2008, 07:42:31 AM
They have never once been "on their feet" so how can you " get them back on their feet"?

they were doing pretty well until we Brits colonised the place in the 19th century, and not bad in the '60s when they got their independence. they really got screwed in the mid 70s with the arrival of a proper african dictatorship and things have been bad ever since. do you have anything to back up this statement apart from your assumptions based on the fact that they are african?

The only solution is to start arming the freighter crews. But the fact that they cant be is typical of any dribble coming out of the UN. We can call this Somali thing the INTL equivalent of big city gun control.

as mentioned, merchant vessels aren't armed due to the Geneva convention (1863), formation of the UN was 1945. unrelated.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: indy007 on November 13, 2008, 08:06:42 AM
Funny thing, the most effective defensive weapon so far has been firefighting equipment :)  I guess a well-aimed hose has about the same range and better accuracy than an RPG fired from a dinghy.

Personally, I figure they should put 3-man Seal teams on a random selection of cargo vessels, armed with a .50 and some portable anti-armor (TOW equivalent) weapons.  Invite the pirates in a bit, pop open a hatch and kablooi.

And the best part - don't publicize any of it, especially if they actually blow up some pirates.  Pirates simply disappearing without a trace will be a pretty good deterrent.  And any captain on any boat in international waters has the authority to execute pirates, so it's even more legal than shooting an armed intruder in your own house (which you can't do in many countries, but those countries recognize the ultimate authority of a captain on the high seas).

I just saw a special on it. Basically, you're not in international waters. Ships are forced to pass by the Somali coast in that area. If you light up a pirate, you're still subject to Somali law and have to make your case in court. Some companies hire private security, and they're heavily armed. They will still end up in court though even in a case of self defense. Would you trust a Somali legal system?
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: bongaroo on November 13, 2008, 08:38:14 AM
I was under the impression that the Somali government is still completely defunct.  Do they even have an operating justice system?
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 13, 2008, 08:49:03 AM
Just return to the old ways of East Indian liners with 20 cannons..
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Curval on November 13, 2008, 10:43:23 AM
I just saw a special on it. Basically, you're not in international waters. Ships are forced to pass by the Somali coast in that area. If you light up a pirate, you're still subject to Somali law and have to make your case in court. Some companies hire private security, and they're heavily armed. They will still end up in court though even in a case of self defense. Would you trust a Somali legal system?

They have to catch you first.

The Somali govt. (whatever that may be) make no efforts to control these pirates so someone's got to do it for them.  I don't think Somalia has a formal legal system.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: 68Wooley on November 13, 2008, 10:58:56 AM
I just saw a special on it. Basically, you're not in international waters. Ships are forced to pass by the Somali coast in that area. If you light up a pirate, you're still subject to Somali law and have to make your case in court. Some companies hire private security, and they're heavily armed. They will still end up in court though even in a case of self defense. Would you trust a Somali legal system?

No one in their right mind is going into actual Somali territorial waters i.e. within 12 nautical miles of the coast. Assuming Somalia had a working judiciary, that would be the limit of their jurisdiction for non-Somalian flagged vessels. Merchant ships have been advised to stay at least 50 miles offshore and attacks have been reported up to 100 miles offshore.

Somalia hasn't had an effective government since the early 90's so the chances of ending up in court there are slim. Shot by some crazed warlord yes, but court, not so much.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: ROX on November 13, 2008, 11:20:41 AM
Funny thing, the most effective defensive weapon so far has been firefighting equipment :)  I guess a well-aimed hose has about the same range and better accuracy than an RPG fired from a dinghy.

Personally, I figure they should put 3-man Seal teams on a random selection of cargo vessels, armed with a .50 and some portable anti-armor (TOW equivalent) weapons.  Invite the pirates in a bit, pop open a hatch and kablooi.

And the best part - don't publicize any of it, especially if they actually blow up some pirates.  Pirates simply disappearing without a trace will be a pretty good deterrent.  And any captain on any boat in international waters has the authority to execute pirates, so it's even more legal than shooting an armed intruder in your own house (which you can't do in many countries, but those countries recognize the ultimate authority of a captain on the high seas).


That would be a nice idea if international law did not make arming civilian ships illegal.

Only military ships can be armed.

However:  desperate times call for desperate measures.  Some companies are hiring paramilitary security (armed) services to escort their ships (especially around Indonesia and Maylasia).  I like your idea....to heck with international law.  Pirates can die.



ROX

Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Hornet33 on November 13, 2008, 11:44:44 AM
The best way to handle pirates is for the Navy and Coast Guard to create a joint command. Buy a bunch of old cargo ships like this.

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefORZRxJkLcA.ryjzbkF/SIG=1208mmkk4/EXP=1226684177/**http%3A//pacific4u.homestead.com/Container.jpg)

Modify several cargo containers so the sides drop down and have one of these inside. 25MM Bushmaster Cannon

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefUtZhxJIH4A70ejzbkF/SIG=12stqplo1/EXP=1226684333/**http%3A//www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_0611/26_34446_dc335e59b031255.jpg)

Have some of these fore and aft. 7.62mm MiniGun

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefMdaBxJQb0AVhujzbkF/SIG=12lq1qt1h/EXP=1226684829/**http%3A//www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_30-cal_GAU17_minigun_pic.jpg)

Add extra armor plate to critical areas of the ship. Install a fully functional Combat Information Center with the latest in surface search radars, FLIR systems, and low light cameras, and go trolling for pirates. Wait for them to attack, then cut them to pieces. :aok
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: indy007 on November 13, 2008, 12:01:05 PM
I'm just saying what the expert on the show was explaining. I wouldn't go anywhere near there without helicopter gunships. The Somali legal system kinda-sorta exists. It depends on whoever controls Mogadishu at the moment. Beyond that, you can still end up in a world's court, which happened to several foreigners that fought as mercenaries in Somalia & Bosnia.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: crazyivan on November 13, 2008, 04:10:55 PM
History Channel had  a thing on this. Showed a sound weapon called the LRAD..
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Rich46yo on November 13, 2008, 04:45:53 PM
Quote
as mentioned, merchant vessels aren't armed due to the Geneva convention (1863), formation of the UN was 1945. unrelated.

Well then That useless House of Prostitution, currently occupying U.S. soil, can throw a few words around on a new piece of paper and change it. Better yet just let the freighter crews pack anyways, the Yank ones anyway, and say anyone who doesn't like it can go complain in Geneva. Since when did the Geneva convention have anything to do with merchant vessels flying under flags of countries not at war anyways? I always thought the Geneva convention only applied to parties of a conflict, and only then when the conflict was being fought by constituted military arms of signatory nations. Were not at war with Somalia, and even if we were it wouldn't be against a constituted military arm of a signatory nation.

BTW The Geneva Convention was 1929. The first draft anyways. The 2nd draft was 1949.

What would the GC have to do with arming freighter crews anyway? Please do post some proof, "but try not to sound like a Lawyer".

OK your right there, 1864. I'd forgot. But I still dont see anything in it that would prevent freighter crews from being armed.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Iron_Cross on November 13, 2008, 05:21:05 PM
I hate to say it, but some ports of call/nations have pretty draconian firearms laws, and you would fall under their jurisdiction, since you are then most defiantly not in international waters.  If on a routine contraband inspection, the port authorities find any thing against their laws, some of your crew/captain are going to be in a foreign prison for a few years till their case comes up before their courts.  So most Shipping companies deal with that by simply forbidding crew to carry firearms.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: mensa180 on November 13, 2008, 05:28:29 PM
I would guess so that it did not give people like the Germans in WWI an excuse to torpedo our ships.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Vulcan on November 13, 2008, 05:43:05 PM
The Indonesia's are doing some stuff with some US govt agencies at the moment with fake ships trying to lure out pirates. Saw this on a doco about 5 months ago.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Roundeye on November 13, 2008, 06:31:47 PM
I've got the solution.  Install large boilers on the ships and hook them to the water cannons.  Everyone knows hot water cleans better than cold water.  Giving them in effect giant pressure washers that spew boiling hot water for you know....things like stripping off salt pray, exhaust smut and bird droppings from the ship...........oh yea........and for stripping the skin off of would-be pirates :t

NOT a weapon.  And eco-friendly to boot :lol.

When little boats start washing up on shore with boiled corpses laying amongst AKs and RPGs, word would travel.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Curlew on November 13, 2008, 06:53:31 PM
I've got the solution.  Install large boilers on the ships and hook them to the water cannons.  Everyone knows hot water cleans better than cold water.  Giving them in effect giant pressure washers that spew boiling hot water for you know....things like stripping off salt pray, exhaust smut and bird droppings from the ship...........oh yea........and for stripping the skin off of would-be pirates :t

NOT a weapon.  And eco-friendly to boot :lol.

When little boats start washing up on shore with boiled corpses laying amongst AKs and RPGs, word would travel.

Possibly the best Idea I have heard
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on November 13, 2008, 07:25:11 PM
I've got the solution.  Install large boilers on the ships and hook them to the water cannons.  Everyone knows hot water cleans better than cold water.  Giving them in effect giant pressure washers that spew boiling hot water for you know....things like stripping off salt pray, exhaust smut and bird droppings from the ship...........oh yea........and for stripping the skin off of would-be pirates :t

NOT a weapon.  And eco-friendly to boot :lol.

When little boats start washing up on shore with boiled corpses laying amongst AKs and RPGs, word would travel.


Son, i like your style.  :rock
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: mbailey on November 13, 2008, 07:37:12 PM

Son, i like your style.  :rock

x2  :salute

Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Roundeye on November 13, 2008, 07:40:10 PM
I'm sick like that. :D  Several things came to mind like electrified railings and cinder block dispensers, but the giant steam (pirate) cleaner is tops. :lol
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: MoeRon on November 13, 2008, 08:11:34 PM
the giant steam (pirate) cleaner is tops. :lol


Should we trademark that?     :aok
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Roundeye on November 13, 2008, 09:54:54 PM

Should we trademark that?     :aok

Sure!  The sales pitch could be "Scald the scallywags!" :D

OK, i'm putting the bottle down and going to bed now.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: MoeRon on November 13, 2008, 10:12:34 PM
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/fc/pirate.gif)
arrrrrgh
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: DarkglamJG52 on November 14, 2008, 03:13:06 PM

The Government of Spain send a P3 Orion for patrol the area, but the plane are unarmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8b4ns5COM&feature=related

The French killed 3 pirates on April.

http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaustralia/three_killed_in_somali_pirate_hostage_rescue___544826
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: nirvana on November 14, 2008, 06:30:29 PM
The best way to handle pirates is for the Navy and Coast Guard to create a joint command. Buy a bunch of old cargo ships like this.

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefORZRxJkLcA.ryjzbkF/SIG=1208mmkk4/EXP=1226684177/**http%3A//pacific4u.homestead.com/Container.jpg)

Modify several cargo containers so the sides drop down and have one of these inside. 25MM Bushmaster Cannon

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefUtZhxJIH4A70ejzbkF/SIG=12stqplo1/EXP=1226684333/**http%3A//www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_0611/26_34446_dc335e59b031255.jpg)

Have some of these fore and aft. 7.62mm MiniGun

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefMdaBxJQb0AVhujzbkF/SIG=12lq1qt1h/EXP=1226684829/**http%3A//www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_30-cal_GAU17_minigun_pic.jpg)

Add extra armor plate to critical areas of the ship. Install a fully functional Combat Information Center with the latest in surface search radars, FLIR systems, and low light cameras, and go trolling for pirates. Wait for them to attack, then cut them to pieces. :aok


I was under the impression that the Navy had ships over there with Coast Guard teams helping with the piracy problem from a few news articles last year.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Hornet33 on November 14, 2008, 08:25:58 PM
Yeah they do, BUT they are on Navy Warships. The problem with fighting pirates with a warship is the pirates KNOW what a warship is and don't go out when a warship is around.

Convert a small cargo ship into an armed small cargo ship manned with Navy and Coast Guard personel and the pirates won't know it's an armed Navy ship until it's too late. Boom, no more pirates.

Although I do like the idea of the boiling water fire hoses. That's out of the box creative thinking right there, so that would have to be added to the armed cargo ship as well. You could but a huge boiler in the cargo hold of a frieghter, not to mention a water pump and holding tanks from hell. :aok
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Angus on November 15, 2008, 04:31:08 AM
Well, you slackers, flushing them off the deck would be an idea...
Anyway, is it really forbidden to carry some more firearms on board, say in a locker for emergency? For an armed crew inside a ship they know makes the odds a lot different. And so would be the case if there were some sniper rifles....
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Noir on November 15, 2008, 05:47:45 AM
the EU is sending some more navy ships in that zone right now including some frigates, and the Somalian govt is not happy about it, like we cared anyway.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Fishu on November 15, 2008, 07:17:50 AM
They could also pour burning oil on the guys climbing up the rope. There's plenty of oil in the ships already, so just ready couple of buckets and keep a lighter with you. So medieval, but that'd be so sweet. I'm sure they won't be crying to the officials about their burns :)
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: CAP1 on November 15, 2008, 07:50:37 AM
Yeah they do, BUT they are on Navy Warships. The problem with fighting pirates with a warship is the pirates KNOW what a warship is and don't go out when a warship is around.

Convert a small cargo ship into an armed small cargo ship manned with Navy and Coast Guard personel and the pirates won't know it's an armed Navy ship until it's too late. Boom, no more pirates.

Although I do like the idea of the boiling water fire hoses. That's out of the box creative thinking right there, so that would have to be added to the armed cargo ship as well. You could but a huge boiler in the cargo hold of a frieghter, not to mention a water pump and holding tanks from hell. :aok
i think these are the two best ideas yet.........

let em think they have a nice juicey target........then pound em.
ooorrrrr.........hitem with the hot water cannon, and when they've all been blown overboard, take their boat.  :D
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Rich46yo on November 15, 2008, 10:49:00 AM
I was under the impression that the Navy had ships over there with Coast Guard teams helping with the piracy problem from a few news articles last year.

Yes but if your avatar is correct then you know what a vast place the sea is. Most of all in the heavily traveled waterways of that region. There is a huge small boat fishing industry in that area and loads of other Dhow type boats playing the waters for whatever commercial reason. Last I checked there was only a small naval presence, and no USN presence. Or at most a frigate. Fact is there are only so many naval assets and commanders are loath to task them over piracy. Most of all when the ships being pirated are from other nations. Most of all when there are so many other choke points for Piracy. East Asia is far worse then East Africa for piracy.

But now Russia is involved. I heard they are sending a frigate, for all the good it will do. If it were me running the show I'd nail some of these http://www.eme421.com/gdf35mm.html to freighters, cover them on deck, and just wait for the Pirates to get close enough. Then I'd blow them into manageable chunks for the sharks of the area. The word will get around and I'll bet the Piracy will slow down.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: WWhiskey on November 15, 2008, 12:10:43 PM
i read a day or two ago that the navy was going too fit this to all there escort ships around Somalian waters, it emits a ray that causes you to think your flesh is burning, as well as loss of control of bowl movments and makes them throw up,
they must turn away or jump into the water to get away from the pain it causes!
 hope they take it off the hummer first lol



(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/WWhiskey/Microwave-Crowd-Dispersal.gif)
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Baitman on November 15, 2008, 12:25:09 PM
[hijack] WWhiskey love your avatar. Canadian whiskey at its finest. I really enjoy Crown Royal XR [/hijack]
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Fishu on November 15, 2008, 01:26:58 PM
But now Russia is involved. I heard they are sending a frigate, for all the good it will do. If it were me running the show I'd nail some of these http://www.eme421.com/gdf35mm.html to freighters, cover them on deck, and just wait for the Pirates to get close enough. Then I'd blow them into manageable chunks for the sharks of the area. The word will get around and I'll bet the Piracy will slow down.

I'm sure they'd love to, but civilian ships cannot carry weapons. Which is stupid when no government is protecting them and the pirates doesn't respect the rights of an unarmed crew! The whole point of going out unarmed is null and void in the somalian waters.

Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on November 15, 2008, 04:10:44 PM
It's not real smart to play by the "rules" when you KNOW your opponent will NOT, and will win if you DO.

They could always get a couple of freight companies to hire Blackwater. If I were a freight company and I HAD to send my ships there, I would NOT play by the rules, period. Anyone not identified as legitimate legal authority attempting to board would be killed, every one of them, by my armed crew. And left to float in the area.

My response to the UN or anyone else would be "if you cannot protect my crews and ships, my crews and ships WILL protect themselves".
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Fishu on November 15, 2008, 05:55:27 PM
Maybe you could always carry a single container of weapons and ammo as part of the shipment and which by chance happens to be easily accessible to the crew. Sure it's one container less of valuable goods, but I'm sure losing a whole ship with the cargo will cost more.

Only problem could be that someone in the customs might raise some questions about a broken seal on the weapons container.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: AKHog on November 15, 2008, 06:08:35 PM
One of the latest pirate incidents involved a Russian ship that had something like 20 tanks and a bunch of other military stuff. It seems totally irresponsible to ship this stuff using normal methods, and using non-armed ships. I think if you are shipping a bunch of weapons, you must be required to at least be able to defend the ship.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: 1pLUs44 on November 15, 2008, 06:14:38 PM
Solution:

(http://www.hk94.com/images/m2.jpg)
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Selino631 on November 15, 2008, 07:07:29 PM
I know that some shipping companys are hiring private security companys to have armed guards on there ships.

Also i know that U.S. Coast Guard units are providing heavy security in the gulf of mexico and carabien sector.
Quote
GULF OF MEXICO- Coast Guard Petty Officer 1st Class Chris Ellis slides down a 70-foot rope from an HH-60 Jayhawk rescue helicopter onto the deck of the Coast Guard Cutter Cypress about three miles south of Perdido Key, Fla., Monday May 8, 2006. Ellis, of the Coast Guard's Special Missions Training Center in Camp Lejeune, N.C., was one of a multi-unit team training in vertical insertion or "fast-roping" onto the ship. Vertical insertion is a method of expeditiously delivering trained Coast Guard personnel to a vessel or shore facility. Personnel from the training center and Coast Guard Maritime Security Response Team Chesapeake, Va., successfully fast-roped from the helicopter from Coast Guard Aviation Training Center Mobile, Ala., a total of 15 times. Cutter Cypress is a 225-foot seagoing buoy tender homeported in Mobile. U.S. Coast Guard photograph courtesy Cutter Cypress.
(https://www.piersystem.com/posted/425/060508_g_XXXXX_001.117172.jpg)
(http://www.msc.navy.mil/sealift/2006/August/graphics/Sisler103.jpg)
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: nirvana on November 15, 2008, 07:29:58 PM
That's common training for DOG forces in the Coast Guard.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Maverick on November 17, 2008, 12:10:44 PM
There is a new development in today's news. A saudi owned loaded super tanker was snatched

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081117/ap_on_re_af/ml_piracy
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Curlew on November 17, 2008, 12:14:07 PM
I know that some shipping companys are hiring private security companys to have armed guards on there ships.

Also i know that U.S. Coast Guard units are providing heavy security in the gulf of mexico and carabien sector.(https://www.piersystem.com/posted/425/060508_g_XXXXX_001.117172.jpg)
(http://www.msc.navy.mil/sealift/2006/August/graphics/Sisler103.jpg)

Many companies hire a blackwater gunboat or security detachment.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: RTHolmes on November 17, 2008, 12:35:24 PM
There is a new development in today's news. A saudi owned loaded super tanker was snatched

couple of brits among the hostages - the SBS will want a crack at that one :uhoh
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on November 17, 2008, 12:58:25 PM
There is a new development in today's news. A saudi owned loaded super tanker was snatched

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081117/ap_on_re_af/ml_piracy

Only idiots and fools did not see this coming. Let something fester long enough and this is what you get. The problem should have been eradicated with extreme prejudice when it first began. Instead, it was allowed to continue, with little or no response. The repercussions will go world wide.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: CAP1 on November 17, 2008, 01:07:12 PM
Only idiots and fools did not see this coming. Let something fester long enough and this is what you get. The problem should have been eradicated with extreme prejudice when it first began. Instead, it was allowed to continue, with little or no response. The repercussions will go world wide.

someone said it earlier in this thread.......arm the ships. screw whatever supposed laws say that civilian ships cannot arm themselves. they are the only ones that can protect themselves out there.

 
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: iTunes on November 17, 2008, 01:37:15 PM
rocket launchers
When you've been on the receiving end of one of these then you'll know  it's entirely sensible for the Captain to pull over.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: ColSuave on November 17, 2008, 02:00:32 PM
There's always the expensive solution to 'persuade' them to go away. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg)
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: ColSuave on November 17, 2008, 02:02:34 PM
There's always a solution to 'persuade' them to go away. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg)
maybe some escorts for ships passing through their waters. Though i have to admit the high pressure boiling water sounds like an amazing idea.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: 63tb on November 17, 2008, 02:41:20 PM
Didn't they use high pressure steam/hot water "guns" in the movie The Sand Pebbles?

63tb
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Fishu on November 17, 2008, 03:07:26 PM
There's always the expensive solution to 'persuade' them to go away. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg)

You'd be more likely to hit the protected ship than the dinghys with that  :D

PT boat sort of small attack ships equipped with big fuel tanks and armed with small caliber automatic cannons and an armed crew could probably do more. It would require couple of "PT" boat tenders and a bunch of the "PT" boats, but that's less of a problem than trying to find and operate 10 frigates in the area.

Bogues with choppers instead could be handy too, but there isn't any and the next available choice is too few and expensive. Choppers too would be expensive to operate. Though bogues with those brazillian turboprop fighters could be neat (yeah yeah, I know, they're not designed to operate from a carrier. make it happen!). Far less expensive to operate than choppers and travel faster. Although it may be better to design a whole new plane which is purpose built to fight pirate vessels. It wouldn't need much and it'd be cheaper. A single engine cessna with more powerful engine, strenghtened landing gear, a hook, some armour against small arms, guns and capability to operate at night (not just fly, but combat the pirate vessels) would do.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Curlew on November 17, 2008, 03:31:43 PM
How about just a uav?
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: eagl on November 17, 2008, 09:33:50 PM
The only way a UAV would get enough coverage is to fast-fwd a few years when armed long-endurance high altitude UAVs with automated inflight refuelling become operational.  Even the new Reaper can't remain on-station long enough or fly fast enough to be effective, and it also only carries 2xJDAM and 2xhellfire.

The problem with adding lots of weapons to the really long-endurance UAVs is that those UAVs will be tolerated as spy planes only as long as they remain unarmed.  Arming the global hawk would pretty much guarantee that it will lose access to some airspace and be immediately attacked in some areas.  If I recall correctly, that's one reason why we didn't press forward with armed SR-71 variants...  It made shooting them down more justifiable.
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Angus on November 18, 2008, 04:55:49 AM
Just smack the UAV itself into the pirate boats then :devil
Anyway, don't they sometimes operate from a bigger vessel?
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: MiloMorai on November 18, 2008, 06:24:33 AM
Any Broncos in 'moth balls'?
Title: Re: Somali Pirates - I don't get it.
Post by: Fishu on November 18, 2008, 06:29:04 AM
The problem with adding lots of weapons to the really long-endurance UAVs is that those UAVs will be tolerated as spy planes only as long as they remain unarmed.  Arming the global hawk would pretty much guarantee that it will lose access to some airspace and be immediately attacked in some areas.  If I recall correctly, that's one reason why we didn't press forward with armed SR-71 variants...  It made shooting them down more justifiable.

I don't think the somalis will care about it. They already have armed ships in their waters shooting at the pirates whenever possible. UCAV wouldn't be much of a change to the current situation.