Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Murdr on November 14, 2008, 11:04:00 AM
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Been awhile since I've posted any. I uploaded 2 general main arena play type films if anyone's interested.
TT1engin.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=12)
justfurballn.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=11)
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Thanks for posting these! I look forward to taking a close look at them later this afternoon!
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Got a chance to watch 1st half of the TT one before a business call interrupted. I'm always intrigued by flying with the gun sight zoomed like that but never seem to get comfortable. Outside of SA and ACM what struck me was what seemed to be throttle use to manage the blind spots in the front view...on or off the gas to get the con out of the crossbar or out from under the nose....it's subtle but given how often a lot of guys (including me) "lose kills" when we get changed up while the con is tucked in the art work...
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Still haven't found the films I'm looking for, but I ran across a couple more while looking...
TTbounce.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=14) (on the defensive quite a bit)
midwar.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=13)
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Something a bit different...Flying around in Spits
fieldD.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile;id=15) -This one turns into a head on a swivel, no friendlies in the air situation...was fun.
gixer.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile;id=16) -Slumming it in a spit. A couple fun fights.
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Last one for awhile.
2poniesMW.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile;id=17) -first I find my poor P-38 being bounced by a pair of ponies winging together. After I'm low and slow, and finishing the 2nd pony...I have the luck of being jumped by a very good stick in a hellcat.
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DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, try to HO' the P-38.
Last one for awhile.
2poniesMW.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile;id=17) -first I find my poor P-38 being bounced by a pair of ponies winging together. After I'm low and slow, and finishing the 2nd pony...I have the luck of being jumped by a very good stick in a hellcat.
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DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, try to HO' the P-38.
LOL. All things considered, starting E, pilots, plane match-up, I was happy to even get a 'guns first' merge after comming up short on the previous 2 merges. We chatted afterwards, and I kind of surprised him when I reversed and zoomed after he pulled off the second attack. I think I'd have lost if I hadn't taken the opportunity to be agressive.
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I guess the part I don't understand is having the E and a plane that turns as well/better and going for some rather low percentage shots from infront of the 3/9 line rather than taking the patient route and using that E to set up for a saddle and rear quarter shot...if that makes any sense, sorry, my terminology is probably most gauche.
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I guess the part I don't understand is having the E and a plane that turns as well/better and going for some rather low percentage shots from infront of the 3/9 line rather than taking the patient route and using that E to set up for a saddle and rear quarter shot...if that makes any sense, sorry, my terminology is probably most gauche.
You know, I was thinking about this quite a bit earlier this evening. Here's a clip of a fight I had earlier today. I wasn't really flying a better turner but after reviewing the film, I think that I really pushed too hard trying to pull lead when a lag pursuit might have set me up for a better shot. Of course, better gunnery might have ended it sooner. He did present me with a good planform shot at one point, which I missed. I would be interested to hear what more experienced sticks have to say about the enagement. I find that I can learn by watching my own films, but sometimes I wonder what I am missing since I don't have the experience to fully understand what I am seeing most of the time.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335ca321633ea72b60a23
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You know, I was thinking about this quite a bit earlier this evening. Here's a clip of a fight I had earlier today. I wasn't really flying a better turner but after reviewing the film, I think that I really pushed too hard trying to pull lead when a lag pursuit might have set me up for a better shot. Of course, better gunnery might have ended it sooner. He did present me with a good planform shot at one point, which I missed. I would be interested to hear what more experienced sticks have to say about the enagement. I find that I can learn by watching my own films, but sometimes I wonder what I am missing since I don't have the experience to fully understand what I am seeing most of the time.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335ca321633ea72b60a23
Look at TT1engin.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=12) at around 1:00. I am setting up a merge with a spit. He is intentionally not in my forward view. I want to merge with him in a way that will make him pass through my lift vector, and I want my lift vector above the horizon (because I intend my first turn to be nose high). This gives me the option to turn into him early on the merge. If I can get position to have him pass through my lift vector. I want to get separation at the merge. This offsets our turn radius and gives me the opportunity to finish a reversal inside his turn circle (figure below). .
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/merges2.jpg)
If you had applied that kind of approach to the merge followed by a more vertical turn, you should have been able to have guns on him within a 270 degree turn after the merge when his first maneuver was a flat turn.
It looked like you were often mirroring his maneuvers, and trying to keep your lift vector on him. Once you get in trail, or at least on his side of the circle, that's the right thing to do with your lift vector. But when you are still in a merge-to-merge portion of the fight, you'll want your lift vector pointing toward your next turn. Your next turn should be whatever BFM will best counter your opponents turn, and that may be "out of plane" with your opponent.
The first turn after the merge he did a nose high flat turn and you followed suit. Had you done an immelman or pitchback you could have gained angles (film example (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/imlvflat.ahf)). At 0:48 he inverted into a split-s, you followed suit. Initiating a flat turn, and then rolling your lift vector to follow as he passed by would have gained you angles (film example (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/fltvsplits.ahf)).
Other than that, something I really noticed was you were giving up too much energy dialing back the throttle. You were in trail for awhile, but you gave up so much speed that you allowed the spit enough separation to reverse almost nose-on back into you. There are times when you may want to be off the throttle briefly, but it looked to me like you were overdoing it. I am looking at both my projected flight path/angle-off, and separation when judging whether to adjust the throttle. If you are not in danger of overshooting, you'll usually want all the thrust you can get. Even if your turn is G limited by your speed, at full power you're still at a thrust deficit due to all the induced drag you're producing with your maneuvering.
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I guess the part I don't understand is having the E and a plane that turns as well/better and going for some rather low percentage shots from infront of the 3/9 line rather than taking the patient route and using that E to set up for a saddle and rear quarter shot...if that makes any sense, sorry, my terminology is probably most gauche.
I forced the issue by trying to reverse into his turn circle when he pulled up and gave me the separation. He countered by instead maneuvering inside my turn circle...twice. I often go for the same opportuinty when I see I can gain the inside line when maneuvering from merge-to-merge. The final merge was a bit of an oddball situation. I stalled into my next maneuver with my nose dropping around at fast dps, and we were in the narrow portion of the envelope where I would already have a 2 dps turn rate advantage. I doubt he expected me to be able to end up nose on with the inside line on the next merge.
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Look at TT1engin.ahf (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;id=12) at around 1:00. I am setting up a merge with a spit. He is intentionally not in my forward view. I want to merge with him in a way that will make him pass through my lift vector, and I want my lift vector above the horizon (because I intend my first turn to be nose high). This gives me the option to turn into him early on the merge. If I can get position to have him pass through my lift vector. I want to get separation at the merge. This offsets our turn radius and gives me the opportunity to finish a reversal inside his turn circle (figure below). .
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/merges2.jpg)
If you had applied that kind of approach to the merge followed by a more vertical turn, you should have been able to have guns on him within a 270 degree turn after the merge when his first maneuver was a flat turn.
It looked like you were often mirroring his maneuvers, and trying to keep your lift vector on him. Once you get in trail, or at least on his side of the circle, that's the right thing to do with your lift vector. But when you are still in a merge-to-merge portion of the fight, you'll want your lift vector pointing toward your next turn. Your next turn should be whatever BFM will best counter your opponents turn, and that may be "out of plane" with your opponent.
The first turn after the merge he did a nose high flat turn and you followed suit. Had you done an immelman or pitchback you could have gained angles (film example (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/imlvflat.ahf)). At 0:48 he inverted into a split-s, you followed suit. Initiating a flat turn, and then rolling your lift vector to follow as he passed by would have gained you angles (film example (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/fltvsplits.ahf)).
Other than that, something I really noticed was you were giving up too much energy dialing back the throttle. You were in trail for awhile, but you gave up so much speed that you allowed the spit enough separation to reverse almost nose-on back into you. There are times when you may want to be off the throttle briefly, but it looked to me like you were overdoing it. I am looking at both my projected flight path/angle-off, and separation when judging whether to adjust the throttle. If you are not in danger of overshooting, you'll usually want all the thrust you can get. Even if your turn is G limited by your speed, at full power you're still at a thrust deficit due to all the induced drag you're producing with your maneuvering.
Thanks for taking a look.
I watched the film clip you provided from the point you mentioned. It looked to me like your opponent would have ended up nose to nose with you if he had carried his initial merge through its complete arc. Granted, a nose to nose situation isnt ideal with a P38, perhaps that is why he rolled away.
I get what you are saying about the merge, in fact, I didnt realize how shallow my vertical component was until I watched the film. Clearly something I need to work on. I'm also interested in roughly 1:20ish on... My opponent starts a barrel roll, in my desire to get my guns on him I didn't follow the shape of his roll and tried to "cut him off". At that point, do you think I would have been better off to follow him through the barrel roll in more of a pursuit mode?
As for my throttle work, I've been working on trying to stay near my plane's corner speed lately. Perhaps that is the wrong thing to do?
I apologize for picking your brain here on the BBS, but it has been the best avenue to gather information for me so far. I've had little luck connecting up with Trainers as of late, and honestly desire a more committed trainer/trainee relationship then you guys in the Training Corps are really able to offer considering the size of the community.
Maybe I'm a bit thicker than most others, but I really only effectively learn one concept at a time... :confused:
I wonder if you might take a look at this next film... A very similar fight... I think I had a better merge, maybe.... Perhaps I'm still fiddling with the throttle more than i should...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335ca321633ea72b60a23
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I'm also interested in roughly 1:20ish on... My opponent starts a barrel roll, in my desire to get my guns on him I didn't follow the shape of his roll and tried to "cut him off". At that point, do you think I would have been better off to follow him through the barrel roll in more of a pursuit mode?
Your separation was fairly consistant, as was your angle off. The thing to worry about is if you are closing up quickly on your opponent, and see no hope of gaining guns before overshooting.
As for my throttle work, I've been working on trying to stay near my plane's corner speed lately. Perhaps that is the wrong thing to do?
Let's look at the chart you reposted in another thread...
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/Ki84F6F5Manueverabilitychart.jpg)
If you and your opponent are near co-E, and both above Cv, you both have a similar G limit. You may gain dps by slowing down closer to Cv, but in the process you'll lose separation and relative E vs your opponent. Give up enough separation, and you give your opponent room to maneuver back into you. Give up too much energy, and as the fight speed deteriorates, your opponent can end up with superior maneuver options.
I would say constantly pursuing Cv speed is the wrong priority. Energy is a commodity on which you can win or lose the fight. Energy managment vs your opponents E state should be a primary priority. Sometimes it's appropriate to scrub E, but more commonly it's appropriate to conserve it, or use it at a pace slightly less than your opponent is using theirs.
Keep in mind that Cv is a fleeting portion of the envelope. You can't sustain max dps at Cv without altitude loss, and eventually you'll run out of altitude to lose. So when you do seek that part of the envelope, you want a "payoff" in the brief time you can sustain it.
A good way to consider it may be to call it a "target of opportuity". If you can get to Cv without losing position, and separation; and it will likely "close the deal" that would be the time to consider scrubbing E to get there. Really the same could be said about any part of the envelope that can gain the advantage. With your Ki vs my 38 I would want to guide the fight to intermediate speeds where I can use flaps and you can't. But I can't carelessly throw away E to get there. I have to wait until that part of the envelope is within reach and then try to take advantage of it and sustain it as long enough to gain the advantage or win the fight.
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I guess my biggest problem is that I am not ready for the level you are trying to teach, and I don't know where to find the instruction that bridges the gap. I really do understand the concepts you are talking about, in theory at least. But putting them to practice is apparently escaping me. I've had some good experiences with a few trainers, but like you, they tend to talk beyond my level a bit. Everything you said makes perfect sense to me, but how I should have applied it to the fights in question escapes me. Sorry.
The films I posted were both against Spit8s, which I typically would consider better turners then my Ki84. I've had very little luck entering such fights at top speed in my Ki84 (full throttle all the time), much more luck lately when I enter the fights much closer to Cv, and keep it closer to that. I can only hope that this awareness of my cornering speed and management thereof is taking me beyond the average MA flyer and eventually will open doors to a more nuanced approach.
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Thanks for taking a look.
I watched the film clip you provided from the point you mentioned. It looked to me like your opponent would have ended up nose to nose with you if he had carried his initial merge through its complete arc.
What may be deceiving is that by the time I reached vertical I was practicing some energy managment. I was in good position, so I eased my turn back to 3Gs, and saved a bit of energy in the process. During the first part of my turn I was peaking the G meter at 8Gs multiple times. From the external view below, you can see I should easily been inside the spits turning circle.
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/mergefig.jpg)
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What my be deceiving is that by the time I reached vertical I was practicing some energy managment. I was in good position, so I eased my turn back to 3Gs, and saved a bit of energy in the process. During the first part of my turn I was peaking the G meter at 8Gs multiple times. From the external view below, you can see I should easily been inside the spits turning circle.
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/mergefig.jpg)
I see that you probably would have been inside his turn on the second merge from your illustration. But not by very much. He definitely flattened out and climbed more then he would have if he wanted to meet you on the second merge. If he had held the immelman, he would have passed above you, probably allowed a passing guns shot from you (maybe what he wanted to avoid), but perhaps set himself up to win the third merge.
((BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, I'm trying to learn by questioning what you are telling me))
:salute and thanks.
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I wonder if you might take a look at this next film... A very similar fight... I think I had a better merge, maybe.... Perhaps I'm still fiddling with the throttle more than i should...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335ca321633ea72b60a23
That's a little better on the merge. You could still be more agressive in seeking separation.
Where he inverted on the initial merge, I'd have automatically flattened out my initial turn. If you're going up, and he's turning down, you'll end up separating enough for another nose to nose merge. But around 1:30 you were faced with the same situation and that time you countered with a flat turn and gained angles in the process. You could still use some polish on subsequent merges so that there arn't delays between a merge and your next maneuver, but overall you fought a much better fight than the previous film.
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I guess my biggest problem is that I am not ready for the level you are trying to teach, and I don't know where to find the instruction that bridges the gap. I really do understand the concepts you are talking about, in theory at least. But putting them to practice is apparently escaping me. I've had some good experiences with a few trainers, but like you, they tend to talk beyond my level a bit. Everything you said makes perfect sense to me, but how I should have applied it to the fights in question escapes me. Sorry.
Not at all. I don't *think* all this stuff during a fight. I just do. If you get the concepts, then you'll be able to examine your fights after the fact and figure out how it could have been done better. It takes time and practice for you to just automatically react appropriately to how you see the fight unfolding. Eventually it does become automatic after making a concious effort at it for a little bit.
Edit: Excelent discussion by the way. Ideally, other players may come along and pick up a few things from our Q&A.
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I guess my biggest problem is that I am not ready for the level you are trying to teach, and I don't know where to find the instruction that bridges the gap. I really do understand the concepts you are talking about, in theory at least. But putting them to practice is apparently escaping me. I've had some good experiences with a few trainers, but like you, they tend to talk beyond my level a bit. Everything you said makes perfect sense to me, but how I should have applied it to the fights in question escapes me. Sorry.
The films I posted were both against Spit8s, which I typically would consider better turners then my Ki84. I've had very little luck entering such fights at top speed in my Ki84 (full throttle all the time), much more luck lately when I enter the fights much closer to Cv, and keep it closer to that. I can only hope that this awareness of my cornering speed and management thereof is taking me beyond the average MA flyer and eventually will open doors to a more nuanced approach.
hey dave,
one thing ya might want to try?
waayy b ack when i first started, ren was workign with me in the TA, as was musdr when he could.
ren was trying to explain things to me as we fought in there, but i just couldn't "get it".
what he had me do, was to join him, and take a ride. when you do that, you see what they're seeing.
if you were able to find a trainer to let ya join them in one of the MA's, you might be able to bribe em to give ya a bit of commentary as to why they're doing what, and when to do certain things.
keep this thread going.....it's GREAT reading. i d/l'd the first three films at home last night.
my problem with the film viewer now, though is that i can;t see any control inputs. the yoke doesn't move, i can't see the flaps move or anything like that.
<<S>>
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This where a top notch trainer like murdr or WW (not slighting any of the others or myself) really can help. As murdr said in the other thread its 95% about correcting misconceptions. Like a good golf pro determining the order and interplay of the corrections is an art form. I'd say I'm at a point where I'm probably 60/40 on a good day on overall management of my ACM when viewed from the rare air of "optimum". IMO what a really good trainer does is exactly what murdr is doing...planting a seed. A good pilot who is diligently applying new knowledge will normally make large leaps from small pieces of quality observation and often initiates a domino effect as one "correction" suddenly makes 2 or 3 other things suddenly seem obvious.
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whoops....double posted
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Edit: Excelent discussion by the way. Ideally, other players may come along and pick up a few things from our Q&A.
As long as your willing.... Here's another chunk of film from earlier today. Not much of interest in the first part where I use yo-yo's on an F4U, but I would like you to take a look at the second engagement. The 109 gets a crossing shot on me after a couple turns. Fortunately, he didn't put much ammo on target, then I got a similar crossing shot shortly after. Luckily I got a more solid hit on him. I can't fail to consider that he was able to hit me first and had he been a better shot would have killed me before I got my shot on him...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335cacd2985923a3cf451
Unfortunately, this one fight is about the only fight I had today that quialifies as a 1vs1.
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Flew a little more this evening... Here's a link to two film clips of some furballing over Tank Town Island in LWOrange tonight.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335ca74c086cc9c9209ae
In the first clip, I got in over my head for certain. For just a brief moment at the end, I thought I was going to escape... But it wasn't to be.
In the second clip, I'm again fighting over TT. This time I survive, even though I make a critical mistake a little after 2:30... I allowed a Spit to turn the tables on me, but luckily he was out of cannon rounds and possibly damaged from a previous engagement.
Enjoy!
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I can't fail to consider that he was able to hit me first and had he been a better shot would have killed me before I got my shot on him...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335cacd2985923a3cf451
Unfortunately, this one fight is about the only fight I had today that quialifies as a 1vs1.
When you're inverted and the opponent crosses under you that close its a bad idea to just roll your lift vector and follow like you did. It is and overshoot trap. You will blow right through and under his flight path while also accelerating in a nose down turn. I and many others try to coax an opponent to do that often. Lucky for you he didn't nail the shot and overshot in much the same way.
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This is the best discussion the forum has seen as long as I have been a member. The give and take involved is excellent and I implore thedevils advocates and trolls to stay OUT of this one so that others can contribute and/or learn something in a respectful environment.
Since I have few quality flying skills, I cannot contribute in any other way than the above. :salute those that are taking the time to teach and discuss.
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But watching Murdr's films, he very rarely pulls off the gas.
Not without a good reason.
dragnbag2.zip (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/films/dragnbag2.zip) - In this film I chop the throttle because I need to pull a lead on a slower plane that is about to decelerate in a climbing turn while I am accelerating through a split-s. I need to cap my speed gain to have a chance at making the shot.
More on this film: I start by going after a lone 38 and quickly end up an a 3v1. The combination of enemy E states is not a good sitiuation to work with, so I reset the fight and re-engage when it is a situation I can manage. Which was a 2v1 where the 2 are separated enough that I can address each with a merge individually.It is and overshoot trap. You will blow right through and under his flight path while also accelerating in a nose down turn. I and many others try to coax an opponent to do that often.
Which by the way is exactly what I did with the N1k. This time I couldn't follow up on the overshoot because of the 38 trailing me. Regardless it put the N1k in a bad situation.
I should also point out that I had the option to bug out of the 3v1 because I was managing my E to conserve it. Had I been a little slower I could not have kept out of the N1k's guns. Also, when I turned back into the 2v1, I beat them both on E. That was also part of the strategy on when I was to re-engage. I was counting on the N1k to bleed off his dive speed faster than myself, and I gave that time to happen. None of that would have been possible if I were bleeding E by tinkering with my throttle to pull maneuvers that would not result in an immediate kill.
bingofun2.zip (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/films/bingofun2.zip) - In this one I am out of ammo with 2 pursuiers. I need to slow down from over 500mph so I can turn circles in my ack and get rid of these guys. Even then I only burned off about 150 mph, because a few hard maneuvers would get me to a good area of the envelope to deal with the bandits.
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This is the best discussion the forum has seen as long as I have been a member. The give and take involved is excellent and I implore thedevils advocates and trolls to stay OUT of this one so that others can contribute and/or learn something in a respectful environment.
You mean trolling like you're doing right now? :lol Seriously, we meant every word of what we said in the other thread. No devil's advocacy there.
That said, I really enjoyed the first film murdr posted, and I'm going to watch the rest of the films in this thread. :aok
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When you're inverted and the opponent crosses under you that close its a bad idea to just roll your lift vector and follow like you did. It is and overshoot trap. You will blow right through and under his flight path while also accelerating in a nose down turn. I and many others try to coax an opponent to do that often. Lucky for you he didn't nail the shot and overshot in much the same way.
Could you perhaps describe what it is that he has done to try to coax me into the trap. How he lays the trap, so to speak. Or at least describe how you would attempt to lay such a trap. Then perhaps talk about what a better response would have been on my part.
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Or at least describe how you would attempt to lay such a trap.
I have. Get under the merge. Make them pass through your lift vector. If they invert, race to make it inside their best turn circle, which may involve turning into them to cut the angles. Not just the initial merge, any merge where it's possible.Then perhaps talk about what a better response would have been on my part.
Don't invert on a merge and pull on a shot unless you're sure the shot is there. This is a "Doc, it hurts when I do this" Doctor replies "Well stop doing that" kind of thing. How to respond instead? It depends, change the speed, change the separation, and the response changes. The constant answer is don't bite on the trap. If you can make the turn and get the kill then it wasn't a very good trap.
Here's an example though http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/reverse.zip
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I have. Get under the merge. Make them pass through your lift vector. If they invert, race to make it inside their best turn circle, which may involve turning into them to cut the angles. Not just the initial merge, any merge where it's possible.Don't invert on a merge and pull on a shot unless you're sure the shot is there. This is a "Doc, it hurts when I do this" Doctor replies "Well stop doing that" kind of thing. How to respond instead? It depends, change the speed, change the separation, and the response changes. The constant answer is don't bite on the trap. If you can make the turn and get the kill then it wasn't a very good trap.
Ok, I get it. Watched the film a couple more times and see where I think I went wrong. Coming into the 2nd merge, I had my lift vector on the bad guy rather then having it directed toward my next turn. In addition to that, I entered the 2nd merge nose down. The lift vector and nose down attitude made my manuever roughly equivelent to a Split-S while he was doing roughly a flat turn which allowed him to get his nose on me. Fortunately he missed.
Pardon me if I seem a bit thick sometimes... Sometimes I need to think about it a couple different ways before I'm certain that I understand the concept.
Thanks for putting up with me! :salute
EDIT to add: Here is a link to the clip we are talking about that has been shortened down to just the important bit.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ea9273c6ecfdbe5dab1eab3e9fa335ca4b62fb1e7c2ad1e9
Here's a snap shot of the positioning at the second merge.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/2ndMerge.jpg)
Showing how I am nose down with my lift vector pointed toward the con. Even though that wasn't the direction I was going to turn (perhaps I should have continued the vector through another immelman in that direction). After watching the film over and over I wonder if I would have been better off, after the first merge, to hold my immelman in its original direction for a bit longer and not rolled in toward the con until the downside...
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/1stmergeturn.jpg)
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Sounds like you got it. And yes it would have helped if you had not gradually rolled your lift vector on him as you turned, but instead let your lift vector lag benind him until you at least got close to 180. But, if you look at the film with trails you'll see that before the first actual merge when he started turning, you were still about 15 degrees nose down. So even before the merge you were that far behind in the angles.
It can be minor factors like not being as agressive initially with high G's when starting your turn, having a negative attitude when starting your turn (eg. being nose below level if your reversal is intended to be a vertical turn), your opponent initiating their turn early. Those little things can add up to put you out of position for a second merge, even if in theory you've chosen a better performing turn.
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My turn for a question back at you Dave. Have you found anything helpful in the films I posted, or had any questions from the films?
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My turn for a question back at you Dave. Have you found anything helpful in the films I posted, or had any questions from the films?
I absolutely love having films from those of you who are more skilled. In the case of your films, I have gone to the effort to parse them down to just the actual engagements to make it easier to watch them repeatedly. I usually will begin by watching the film from the cockpit, seeing what you saw. I try to imagine what I would do moment by moment and compare it to what you actually did.
Then, I will usually watch from the external view with trails on. This of course gives a clearer impression of the "Big Picture". Watching each move, with "why did he do that" in mind is pretty instructive.
I wish that there were more of these films available. Maybe getting the other Trainers to select a few of their own films to have linked on the Trainers site would be in order. I know that there are a few films there, but last I checked they were very basic films. People like me are craving examples of good ACM choices. Learning the actual manuevers isn't that hard, learning when to employ them is the trick.
Just a thought.
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I actually stopped posting films for quite awhile unless it was to show a point or teach something specific. It's a fine line between an informational "here's an example of flying sucessfully", and "hey! look at how great I am!". I can mention your thought though.
Aside from the obvious tactical observations, one thing where films are invaluable is "seeing" the positions from the cockpit view and making a mental link between what you see and what that represents in a 3d environment. I "see" opponents flight paths seconds in advance. By that I mean I *know* where their best possible flight path will put them, and am actually maneuvering in anticipation of where they will be.
But that comes from experience. Where you may watch a film clip and think the situation was "cutting it close", I may see it as "by a mile". Films can help get an insight into the nuance of reading positioning by watching someones who has seen this same positioning a thousand times before and maneuvers accordingly.
I've recently axed my old site engine where I had brief write-ups posted with films, but the actual films are still here (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/films/) if anyone's interested. The newer ones, are indexed here (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;cat=1), including the ones posted in this thread.
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I think watching your films has help me a lot, tho I'm no super pilot :cry I still have a good time. What I think would be a lot of work, but very helpful..... you got nothing to do for the next couple of weeks right?..... When you start talking "lift vectors" and such I have a hard time putting that into a picture and KNOW I have it right. I'd love to see a film that you explain as your flying, and use the more technical terms as the "lift vector" and such. There seems to be a bunch of "signals" I could be using while fighting that either I am totally missing, or are applying at the wrong time.
UNderstanding these advanced concepts might be just what some need to move up to that "next level"..... for me they have to make the planes much bigger so they can draw a barn on them so I have half a chance at hitting them :D
As far as you worrying about the "fine line" of posting your films, I thin as long as you keep worrying about it you'll be ok. You do post films that have a point to them, and you almost always point out the point on the boards where you post it. WHen you start posting films willy nilly and all they are are 6 or 7 cherry picks like some post then I'm sure you'll hear about it.
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Dave, This might be a little off topic but do you have a forward/up view? It looks like you are flapping back & forth between straight up & forward to see the forward up view & it may cause you to be lacking somewhat in your sa.
Just a thought. :salute
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Dave, This might be a little off topic but do you have a forward/up view? It looks like you are flapping back & forth between straight up & forward to see the forward up view & it may cause you to be lacking somewhat in your sa.
Just a thought. :salute
I actually do have a forward up view, it involves pushing the hat forward with my thumb while also pressing a button with the same thumb. I alternate between doing that and just flipping like you mentioned. Some days it depends on the small amount of arthritis in my hands.
I definitely know what you mean about the forward up being helpful.