Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: infowars on November 14, 2008, 12:09:33 PM
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I was hoping you guys could help. I have about $500.00 to spend on a new computer. Please help me find the best bang for my buck. Chances are it will be purchased from Circut City.
Thanks
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I was hoping you guys could help. I have about $500.00 to spend on a new computer. Please help me find the best bang for my buck. Chances are it will be purchased from Circut City.
Thanks
What are you going to be using the computer for mainly? And does that include a monitor in the price?
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I'll be using the computer for aces high mainly and 30sec video clips from random sites..lol
I do not need a monitor.
thanks
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I believe that Baldegle will notice this and contribute mightily.
Let me try though: CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037 E8400 - $165
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131347 ASUS - $82 after $15 rebate
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 Antec 300 - $55
Power Supply:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005 PC Power and cooling 610w - $89 after rebate
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102794 Saphire radeon 3850 - $89
Sound Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102024 SB Card: $93
Total $573. Now if you can reuse your case or sound card you would be well under the $500. There are two things on this list I strongly recommend and they are the e8400 and the PC Power & Cooling power supply.
You can also go to a cheaper SB card for around $32 bucks. This also assumes you have an OS laying around.
Good luck on the build.
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Infowars,
Instead of buying at circuit city who just filed chapter 11...LOL. You may get more for yor money with the suggestions here of a self build. Get in touch with Tildeath(Aces High member). If you cannot I will tell him to check this forum. He owns a computer store and can get any computer hardware and access. for at/below/close to internet cost. This will help in not having to buy anything on self build thru different companies and dealing with RMA's if you have any problems. Now, you will get many suggestions from guys posting ideas on many motherboards, cpu's,graphics cards, ect. I fell into the trap of making recommendations by searching websites for prices anyone can do this and this will help you.Tildeath will list low/mid components to get and make a high recommendation. You will probably get more for your money with a self build but remember you need to get XP or Vista that will drive cost up over components. You may have to spend just a bit more than $500 but He may be able to get you closeplus he is an Aces High member for years.
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That power supply is 1 rail vs 2 rails. It is cheaper to build but 2 rails are better.The processor has basically its very own power interface that is separated from all other power consuming devices.
http://chipcooler.amazonwebstore.com/Coolmax-700W-Nvidia-Certified-Sli-Modular/A/B000G702RI.htm
looks like this has 3 rails
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700w /3 rails $94
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That power supply is 1 rail vs 2 rails. It is cheaper to build but 2 rails are better.The processor has basically its very own power interface that is separated from all other power consuming devices.
http://chipcooler.amazonwebstore.com/Coolmax-700W-Nvidia-Certified-Sli-Modular/A/B000G702RI.htm
looks like this has 3 rails
Please please please understand what you're posting about.
I copied this from the Internet because it's well stated and I didn't want to have to type all this out:
A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets "trapped" on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.
Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete.
Obsolete might be a little strong but you get the idea. This is the reason I and so many others on these BBs reccomend PC Power and Cooling as they all use large single rails.
One more thing; if you have a 20 amp rail running at 80% efficiency you're only getting 16 amps off that rail which may not be enough to power a high end video card.
[EDIT] Infowars, it sounds like you're not up to building one yourself and want to buy pre-built. Is that correct? If so is there any particular reason that you want to buy it at Circuit City vs. Best Buy, Dell or anywhere else?
The best bang for the buck would be building it yourself. Either way, you're not going to get much for $500 but let us know and we'll help as much as possible.
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I believe that Baldegle will notice this and contribute mightily.
Let me try though: CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037 E8400 - $165
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131347 ASUS - $82 after $15 rebate
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 Antec 300 - $55
Power Supply:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005 PC Power and cooling 610w - $89 after rebate
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102794 Saphire radeon 3850 - $89
Sound Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102024 SB Card: $93
Total $573. Now if you can reuse your case or sound card you would be well under the $500. There are two things on this list I strongly recommend and they are the e8400 and the PC Power & Cooling power supply.
You can also go to a cheaper SB card for around $32 bucks. This also assumes you have an OS laying around.
Good luck on the build.
Well, nice start but it will run better with RAM. You might also want to add a hard drive, an optical drive and an operating system. ;)
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500$, shoot you could build my PC with that.
Runs on max settings 1280x1024, hi-res pack and AA at 60 FR drops to 50 sometimes.
Just depends on deals you find, and how serious you are about needing power.
Mine is about this: (Leaving out specifics for this)
65$ CPU AMD
90$ GPU NVidia
35$ RAM
50$ Motherboard
30$ PSU (I know I should get better but it's doing fine for now)
80$ HDD
40$ Case
Total: 390$
Now of course I have extra things:
Second HDD :90$
New DVD Drive: 30$
New Fans: 30$
New Total: 540$
However the Extras are not needed, just wanted badly. :D
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Ooops, I forget to add memory.
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Please please please understand what you're posting about.
I copied this from the Internet because it's well stated and I didn't want to have to type all this out:
A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets "trapped" on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.
Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete.
True, but if you have modular cables, you can select how many rails you have installed. My 600W has 4 x 12V rails, but I only have 2 installed.
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I'd go with one rail. Split rails usually transfer less power as I understand it.
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If I were to go back again, I would buy a PSU with a single rail. At the time, I couldn't pass up the deal on my PSU from newegg.
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Well, nice start but it will run better with RAM. You might also want to add a hard drive, an optical drive and an operating system. ;)
:rofl :rofl oops, I thought of ram the while napping. I don't think it will make that budget.
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I thought of ram the while napping.
Was that S2 or S3 state? :noid
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Please please please understand what you're posting about.
I copied this from the Internet because it's well stated and I didn't want to have to type all this out:
A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets "trapped" on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.
Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete.
Obsolete might be a little strong but you get the idea. This is the reason I and so many others on these BBs reccomend PC Power and Cooling as they all use large single rails.
One more thing; if you have a 20 amp rail running at 80% efficiency you're only getting 16 amps off that rail which may not be enough to power a high end video card.
[EDIT] Infowars, it sounds like you're not up to building one yourself and want to buy pre-built. Is that correct? If so is there any particular reason that you want to buy it at Circuit City vs. Best Buy, Dell or anywhere else?
The best bang for the buck would be building it yourself. Either way, you're not going to get much for $500 but let us know and we'll help as much as possible.
A single 12 volt rail PSU just has one output circuit which generates 12 volts. All the various connectors which supply 12 volts are hooked to that one output. This kind of PSU will work just fine with a modern computer as long as it can deliver the wattage. That's true even if the motherboard requires the extra 4 pin or 8 pin 12 volt CPU connector or if your video card requires the 6 pin PCI-Express connector. As long as your single 12 volt rail PSU has all of those extra connectors and sufficient wattage then things will work properly.
Multiple independent 12 volt rails PSU
A multiple independent 12 volt rails PSU has more than one 12 volt rail. Each of the 12 volt rails has its own separate circuitry. Each of the 12 volt power connectors on the PSU cables is hooked up to one of the 12 volt rails. Since this is merely a PC PSU rather than a "real" one, the manufacturers often don't feel obligated to tell you which connector is hooked to which rail.
One reason to have multiple separate 12 volt rails is to improve the load regulation and noise on the rail. When you connect an active load to a voltage rail you tend to end up with a noisy rail which jumps around a lot. It's not a nice flat voltage. It varies. The more active loads you hook to a rail the messier it gets. So building a PSU with independent 12 volt rails improves the "cleanness" of the power on each rail. Normally this is only done if you have some circuitry which is extremely picky about the quality of its voltage rails because separate rails cost more money than a single rail.
By the way, in case you're ever tempted to hook the independent 12 volt rails together (I've seen people on the Internet who think this is a good idea), don't do it. Your 12 volt rails may have different ideas about what voltage they should set their rails to. One may be quite a bit different than another. They're separate rails, after all, and they have their own circuitry which controls the voltage. They're bound to vary a bit. And if they're just a little different then you can draw lots of current when you connect them together because each of the output circuits try to force the voltage on the same wires to a different value. That causes either a nice orderly shutdown from the over-current protection or smoke and sparks. There are some power supplies which have switches which allow you to gang the rails together. Once you've set the switch properly it's okay to connect them.
This is the specs for my TT 1200 watt PS Notice the 36amps on V3 and V4
(http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/_Resource/LeaderImage/psu_table/W0133RU.gif)
Source http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1245&ID=1512#Tab1 (http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1245&ID=1512#Tab1)
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infowars, since we talked on-line last night and you mentioned you might be willing to build I put this together for you this morning. I haven't tweaked it out... it's just a rough idea and many here will likely come up with other component ideas. It's also just slightly above your budget. If $500 is a hard and fast number we can save a little by going to an AMD system, smaller hard drive, lesser video card, etc.
As I mentioned to you last night, the system you are considering will be limited by the on-board video, and when you decide you want to upgrade that, you'll also have to upgrade the power supply. See Serenity's thread in this forum. He has a similar machine with the same on-board video.
If you still decide you want to buy at a store, let us kno and we'll help as much as possible.
Update COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #:CAC-T05-UW
Item #:N82E16811119068
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$54.99 -$10.00 Instant $44.99
Update Intel BOXD945GCNL LGA 775 Intel 945GC Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #:BOXD945GCNL
Item #:N82E16813121319
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$74.99 -$5.00 Instant $69.99
Update MSI N9600GT 512M OC GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #:N9600GT 512M OC
Item #:N82E16814127333
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate
$109.99 $109.99 - $30.00 MIR = 79.99
Update PC Power & Cooling Silencer S41D2 410W ATX12V Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Model #:S41D2
Item #:N82E16817703014
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate
$64.99 -$5.00 Instant $59.99 - $20.00 MIR = 39.99 Free Shipping
Update Intel Pentium E2180 Allendale 2.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E2180 - Retail
Model #:BX80557E2180
Item #:N82E16819116052
Return Policy:Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
In Stock
$69.99 $69.99 Free Shipping
Update Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR667D2N5K2/2G - Retail
Model #:KVR667D2N5K2/2G
Item #:N82E16820134046
Return Policy:Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$27.99 $27.99 Free Shipping
Update Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #:ST3250410AS
Item #:N82E16822148262
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$54.99 $54.99 Free Shipping
Update Microsoft CA9-00001 Black PS/2 Standard Basic Keyboard and Mouse - OEM
Model #:CA9-00001S
Item #:N82E16823109132
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$15.99 -$1.00 Instant $14.99
Update SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM
Model #:SH-S223F
Item #:N82E16827151171
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$24.99 $24.99 Free Shipping
Update Creative Sound Blaster SB0570 Audigy SE 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #:70SB057000000
Item #:N82E16829102002
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$29.99 $29.99 Free Shipping
Update Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP3 English for System Builders 1 Pack CD - OEM
Model #:N09-02215
Item #:N82E16832116511
Return Policy:Software Return Policy
In Stock
$89.99 $89.99 Free Shipping
Subtotal: $597.89 - $50 MIR's = $557.89 + shipping on 4 components
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So I would like Tildeath to establish 1 Rail or 2 rail.....lol
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One reason to have multiple separate 12 volt rails is to improve the load regulation and noise on the rail. When you connect an active load to a voltage rail you tend to end up with a noisy rail which jumps around a lot. It's not a nice flat voltage. It varies. The more active loads you hook to a rail the messier it gets. So building a PSU with independent 12 volt rails improves the "cleanness" of the power on each rail. Normally this is only done if you have some circuitry which is extremely picky about the quality of its voltage rails because separate rails cost more money than a single rail.
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infowars, since we talked on-line last night and you mentioned you might be willing to build I put this together for you this morning. I haven't tweaked it out... it's just a rough idea and many here will likely come up with other component ideas. It's also just slightly above your budget. If $500 is a hard and fast number we can save a little by going to an AMD system, smaller hard drive, lesser video card, etc.
As I mentioned to you last night, the system you are considering will be limited by the on-board video, and when you decide you want to upgrade that, you'll also have to upgrade the power supply. See Serenity's thread in this forum. He has a similar machine with the same on-board video.
If you still decide you want to buy at a store, let us kno and we'll help as much as possible.
Update COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #:CAC-T05-UW
Item #:N82E16811119068
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$54.99 -$10.00 Instant $44.99
Update Intel BOXD945GCNL LGA 775 Intel 945GC Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #:BOXD945GCNL
Item #:N82E16813121319
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$74.99 -$5.00 Instant $69.99
Update MSI N9600GT 512M OC GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #:N9600GT 512M OC
Item #:N82E16814127333
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate
$109.99 $109.99 - $30.00 MIR = 79.99
Update PC Power & Cooling Silencer S41D2 410W ATX12V Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Model #:S41D2
Item #:N82E16817703014
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
Mail-in Rebate
$64.99 -$5.00 Instant $59.99 - $20.00 MIR = 39.99 Free Shipping
Update Intel Pentium E2180 Allendale 2.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E2180 - Retail
Model #:BX80557E2180
Item #:N82E16819116052
Return Policy:Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
In Stock
$69.99 $69.99 Free Shipping
Update Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR667D2N5K2/2G - Retail
Model #:KVR667D2N5K2/2G
Item #:N82E16820134046
Return Policy:Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$27.99 $27.99 Free Shipping
Update Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #:ST3250410AS
Item #:N82E16822148262
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$54.99 $54.99 Free Shipping
Update Microsoft CA9-00001 Black PS/2 Standard Basic Keyboard and Mouse - OEM
Model #:CA9-00001S
Item #:N82E16823109132
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$15.99 -$1.00 Instant $14.99
Update SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM
Model #:SH-S223F
Item #:N82E16827151171
Return Policy:Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$24.99 $24.99 Free Shipping
Update Creative Sound Blaster SB0570 Audigy SE 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #:70SB057000000
Item #:N82E16829102002
Return Policy:Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$29.99 $29.99 Free Shipping
Update Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP3 English for System Builders 1 Pack CD - OEM
Model #:N09-02215
Item #:N82E16832116511
Return Policy:Software Return Policy
In Stock
$89.99 $89.99 Free Shipping
Subtotal: $597.89 - $50 MIR's = $557.89 + shipping on 4 components
Were you aware that the power supply your are suggesting is for Dell machines (Source http://www.pcpower.com/search.html?q=S41D2+&x=6&y=7 (http://www.pcpower.com/search.html?q=S41D2+&x=6&y=7) you had also mentioned "efficency" this is the same (source http://www.pcpower.com/products/description/Silencer_500_Dell/index.html (http://www.pcpower.com/products/description/Silencer_500_Dell/index.html)) But this PSU may be for Dell mounted cases and not CoolerMaster.
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Were you aware that the power supply your are suggesting is for Dell machines (Source http://www.pcpower.com/search.html?q=S41D2+&x=6&y=7 (http://www.pcpower.com/search.html?q=S41D2+&x=6&y=7) you had also mentioned "efficency" this is the same (source http://www.pcpower.com/products/description/Silencer_500_Dell/index.html (http://www.pcpower.com/products/description/Silencer_500_Dell/index.htting out enough amps.tml)) But this PSU may be for Dell mounted cases and not CoolerMaster.
No. Thanks for pointing that out. I did that pretty quick yesterday morning and just did a quick scan to be sure it was putting out enough amps.
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Hello all I am also wanting to build a computer. I am going to use it for aceshigh only. I do have a vid card a 7950 gt nvidia ddr 512 mb. I have no Idea what to buy and could use all the help I can get. I do not under stand alot of what you guys are saying so I will take your word for it. If tildeath reads this & has a computer store I think we can do some business. thanks and you can email me also alskn6969@aol.com
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Hello all I am also wanting to build a computer. I am going to use it for aceshigh only. I do have a vid card a 7950 gt nvidia ddr 512 mb. I have no Idea what to buy and could use all the help I can get. I do not under stand alot of what you guys are saying so I will take your word for it. If tildeath reads this & has a computer store I think we can do some business. thanks and you can email me also alskn6969@aol.com
Prepare to get bombarded now that the spambots have your e-mail addy.
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aol does a good job at stopping that