Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yenny on November 17, 2008, 01:11:45 PM
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I was researching this manuever because blukitty used it on me and I got caugh by it because I wasn't thinking a head that she would perform that manuever!. I've used it on a few other people and it works perfectly but getting caught up by it sux=p.
tada ! here it is the Dogfight show version of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlfOWZHEGNk
And here is the version of me getting my arse handed to me by blukitty using that manuever.
http://files.filefront.com/Breakahf/;12380411;/fileinfo.html
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It's an old trick he used to do when he used to fly under ManeTMP as well. Just look for the tail to start skidding and you know he's about to do it on you. Just burn your excess energy and saddle up and plaster him when he tries it.
ack-ack
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key word HE :lol
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Probably works better in real life than sims because of no distance ticker and because the attacker is working under the assumption that the defender doesn't see him on his dead six, as was the case with 80% of a2a kills in WWII.
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Probably works better in real life than sims because of no distance ticker and because the attacker is working under the assumption that the defender doesn't see him on his dead six, as was the case with 80% of a2a kills in WWII.
It works good in sims if you can catch the attacker unaware of that is about to happen and considering the majority that play don't have a clue, it's a rather successful reversal maneuver.
ack-ack
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It works well at close range, and when you're not expecting. It's like a smack in da face !
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certainly got on your six there using the trick move as part of a rolling scissor. but i could be wrong with what i saw. im not sure you couldve caught what he was trying to do while in that scissor, especially when he's high above you. would a barrel roll before he started firing make him overshoot?
the pilot in the youtube video(don bryan) was awesome! reminds me of a richard candelaria move ive been trying to do but could never duplicate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCm5z2RpI8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCm5z2RpI8)
thanks for sharing <S> :aok
:devil
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That manuever is also duplicated in AH2, I think widewing Posted a vid of him performing it some where.
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Cool stuff. I don't do either of these moves but they sure look nifty. I believe I'll go to the TA and add these. :salute
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Karaya did the ol' skid move on my pony in an F6F once. If I remember well, I yelled "Oh S***!" out loud. It's a beautiful move when the timing is perfect.
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I had a Spit VIII try it on me one night. It was really cool to watch. Sadly, he didn't get to live to tell about what a great move it was.
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It's an old trick he used to do when he used to fly under ManeTMP as well. Just look for the tail to start skidding and you know he's about to do it on you. Just burn your excess energy and saddle up and plaster him when he tries it.
ack-ack
Ahhh so thats where mane went, why the sex/name change?
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I was researching this manuever because blukitty used it on me and I got caugh by it because I wasn't thinking a head that she would perform that manuever!. I've used it on a few other people and it works perfectly but getting caught up by it sux=p.
Hi Yenny,
Hmm, not sure if you have had anyone else review the film, but I'm seeing something very different to what you are describing. Did you post the correct film? If so, it appears as though you lost that fight for a different reason. I'd be happy to help if you are interested?
Badboy
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That was just a solid reversal nothing more. what makes it appear similiar is the combination of rudder & throttle use your seeing while your still behind bluekitty. He's so far ahead of you angularly your literally flying thru his move as its happening. My comments here are pretty simple...
at 1:02, 1:12, 1:27 & 1:32 you froze the nose momentarily looking for shots. If you look at your one shot window between 1:12 & 1:27 you flew thru the shot like you should. Basically you lost a rolling scissor to a very good stick. Was actually some nice flying but vs anyone at that level you cant afford to ever freeze your nose for even an instant. whatlooked like the "break skid" was actually blukitty flying the nose thru your flight path into lead vs trying to wait on you for the shot. Win the angles battle and the shot naturally will occur.
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look at the moment when it happens though, he rolled the different direction to perform a skid.
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thats whats usually referred to as a "rudder slap", he's using the rudder as an air brake. Basically he's cross controlling the plane to slow it down. totally different animal then what is described in the Utube clip.
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yenny blukitty is a master at reversals especially the rudder slap, the manouver you posted on youtube can be done in ah quite easily, i managed to do it quite frequently back when i was flying the 51d, its a great trick but takes some time to learn and some good timming.
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Ahhh so thats where mane went, why the sex/name change?
Maybe he felt it was time to get in touch with his feminine side *shrug*
ack-ack
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Airbraking only with the rudder works with tail heavy planes prone to misbehavior, like the hogs, mossie, 152.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NOI9E6IG
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It almost looks like the "flat plate" move that dTango showed in another thread. Except instead of going right to left, he goes up then down before he unloads the wings. :salute
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you pull stick back, then what? i couldnt understand the guy in Dogfights :mad:
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Watch it in external views with trails on, this is just a good rolling scissors with some excellent rudder work. He's cross controlling at one point which gives you the "skid" but its more just moving the lift vector and slowing the plane down a bit then anything else. Very little if any flight path departure here and certainly nothing like either the utube clip or WW's pony move...
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you pull stick back, then what? i couldnt understand the guy in Dogfights :mad:
I am no expert in ACM by any stretch of the imagination. I too could not figure out what the guy was saying and had to go back and watch it several times. But this is what I gathered from viewing step-by-step. He had already rolled the plane 90 degrees. From there, yanked back on the stick, then forced full rudder toward the downside wing. I could not exactly determine what he meant by easing off on the pressure. I assume he meant on the stick. I guess (and this is a guess) roll 90 degrees, back off throttle, yank back on stick, ease foward on stick to release pressure, and then hard rudder to the ground side. Of course, all this in a snap of a second.
Those of you with the ACM knowhow--- is that a correct step-by-step? I would certainly like to learn the move, but no need in practicing something that is not right. I assume the key is to figure out exactly when and how much throttle to cut. From the pilot's statement, it would seem the stick and rudder movements are to the extreme. The key then has to be (in my mind) the throttle management to make this work.
Anyone out there that can detail it for us?
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Maybe he felt it was time to get in touch with his feminine side *shrug*
ack-ack
Honestly I have no idea where the idea blukitty is manetmp comes from. I've flown with blukitty, winged up, and talked with her plenty of times. She's a class act even when I fly against her.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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That's basically an abreviated snap-roll.
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I am no expert in ACM by any stretch of the imagination. I too could not figure out what the guy was saying and had to go back and watch it several times. But this is what I gathered from viewing step-by-step. He had already rolled the plane 90 degrees. From there, yanked back on the stick, then forced full rudder toward the downside wing. I could not exactly determine what he meant by easing off on the pressure. I assume he meant on the stick. I guess (and this is a guess) roll 90 degrees, back off throttle, yank back on stick, ease foward on stick to release pressure, and then hard rudder to the ground side. Of course, all this in a snap of a second.
Those of you with the ACM knowhow--- is that a correct step-by-step? I would certainly like to learn the move, but no need in practicing something that is not right. I assume the key is to figure out exactly when and how much throttle to cut. From the pilot's statement, it would seem the stick and rudder movements are to the extreme. The key then has to be (in my mind) the throttle management to make this work.
Anyone out there that can detail it for us?
yes, would be nice as this is the first time I see a reversal like that. I'd also like to know about which planes can pull it succesfully...
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RAM, Dtango has something similar documented in a thread.. I can't recall the title, but it's with the P51D and should be in the aircraft forum.
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thanks, moot, will do a search to see if I find it
[edit] found it, amazing read, and pretty good clips too. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,222522.0.html
When I arrive home this evening I'll try to practice it in a Pony and then see if it can be reproduced in 109s/190s. it seems to require a lot of practice, very good timing, and a pretty big altitude cushion to recover controled fight after doing it...but as a last-ditch desperate move to force an overshoot and win some time, this one seems the most amazing I've ever witnessed.