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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: swareiam on November 20, 2008, 08:51:30 AM

Title: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on November 20, 2008, 08:51:30 AM
Is there already a request in for this one?

(http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/831/SdKfz251-22_PaK.jpg)


(http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/stewart251a.jpg)


This would be a great GV addition to the stable.

<S>
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: CAVPFCDD on November 20, 2008, 10:33:22 AM
looks cool, that one of those kraut 88's that were so good?
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Denholm on November 20, 2008, 10:50:19 AM
That would be a nice addition to the game. No, I do not believe that there is already a request for one.

Sure would make GV'ing a bit more interesting. :aok
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on November 20, 2008, 12:45:11 PM
looks cool, that one of those kraut 88's that were so good?

No Sir, I believe that is a 40mm Anti-Tank artillery piece. The 88mm artillery piece on the Tiger tank is twice that size and some change. I think this addition would get the SdKfz 251 into the MA more often as well.

Cheers  :aok
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Greebo on November 20, 2008, 12:51:10 PM
It's a 75mm anti tank gun. Not sure why you would want this though, it has essentially the same firepower as the Panzer IV but with lousy armour and no turret.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on November 20, 2008, 01:16:40 PM
It's a 75mm anti tank gun. Not sure why you would want this though, it has essentially the same firepower as the Panzer IV but with lousy armour and no turret.

Yes, I stand corrected that is a 75mm Anti-Tank artillery piece. Even better! Well, think of it like this, self propelled artillery was never meant to go toe to toe with tanks. It sits off in the distance and PICKS its enemies apart. The ENY value on a Panzer IV is 25. The ENY value on a SdKfz 251 is 40. I see some nice points there as well as getting a nice thought more playing time in the MA. :aok

 :salute Greebo "Nice F6F Skills"...
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Iron_Cross on November 20, 2008, 04:40:11 PM
I like it.  :aok  Would be a great town killer, plus an nice ambush vehicle.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: splitatom on November 20, 2008, 05:06:15 PM
there was a heaver German half that had an 88 mounted on it only like 50 were built i think the pak 40 was 75 mm the same one in the panzer IV
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: USRanger on November 20, 2008, 06:56:33 PM
C'mon Waffle!  You know you want the SDk used more after spending all that time modeling it!
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Rino on November 20, 2008, 07:00:13 PM
     A few years ago I spoke with a gentleman who served on one of those.
He said the major disadvantage of putting a large gun on a halftrack was that
you attracted attention from tanks mounting the same size gun but a whole
lot more protection.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 20, 2008, 07:12:11 PM
Hmmm... I like the idea of having available a halftrack w/ a 75mm cannon mounted.  I suggested the Sdkfz 251/9 numerous times in various threads.  It would give LVT4-type support for taking down towns and other OBJ.

This version with the PAK-40 installed would give it tank killing ability for sure, but how would it serve as an OBJ killer?  Meaning, yeah we all know the PAK-40 has a good HE shell, but would it offer the same rate of fire and HE ability as the Sdkfz 251/9 and the designated infantry support gun?  If the 251/PAK-40 were put into the game with hope of it being an equal to other tanks... it offers nothing the Pzr cant already due with far more armor protection.

I'll for sure vouch for the 251/9, but I'll put on hold my endorsement of the PAK-40 version for now.  :)
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Iron_Cross on November 20, 2008, 11:11:07 PM
This vehicle would better delineate the roll of the tank as an anti-tank platform rather than as a town basher.  Yes we would have the Panzer that has the same type of gun, but now the panzer's role would primarily be anti-tank not town bashing.  This would also further delineate the role of the wirble, as an anti-air platform, not a town basher.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Lusche on November 20, 2008, 11:48:32 PM
This vehicle would better delineate the roll of the tank as an anti-tank platform rather than as a town basher.  Yes we would have the Panzer that has the same type of gun, but now the panzer's role would primarily be anti-tank not town bashing.  This would also further delineate the role of the wirble, as an anti-air platform, not a town basher.

People would still choose Panzer over SdK for town bashing, because of the offered protection (town ack! strafers!) and the bigger ammunition loadout. The SdKfz 251/22 carried only a total of 22 rounds.

In game terms, the Wirble carries an ord equivalent of 12,000lbs when shooting at structures, the Panzer IV (all HE) 12,480lbs and the 251/22 would carry 3,432lbs.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: moot on November 21, 2008, 12:31:23 AM
An artillery variant would be a better addition.. We still don't have one of those.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on November 21, 2008, 01:42:59 AM
People would still choose Panzer over SdK for town bashing, because of the offered protection (town ack! strafers!) and the bigger ammunition loadout. The SdKfz 251/22 carried only a total of 22 rounds.

In game terms, the Wirble carries an ord equivalent of 12,000lbs when shooting at structures, the Panzer IV (all HE) 12,480lbs and the 251/22 would carry 3,432lbs.

This particular model should be able to carry one crate of vehicle supplies. Thereby increasing its hitting strenght.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Lusche on November 21, 2008, 01:44:30 AM
This particular model should be able to carry one crate of vehicle supplies. Thereby increasing its hitting strenght.

And why "should it" ? There is no room anymore with that huge gun installed.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on November 21, 2008, 02:08:59 AM
And why "should it" ? There is no room anymore with that huge gun installed.

It normally carries 4 crates of vehicles supplies. There should be room for one crate with the gun. It's a good selling point.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Coog03 on November 21, 2008, 11:32:20 AM
That would be fun rolling around taking out tans in the SD.  :rock
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: P1Tiger on November 23, 2008, 10:50:00 PM
I love it, it would give me another excuse for me to get into it, hey its quick and might be a good hanger camper
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on July 17, 2009, 10:36:22 AM
Reviving this one.

The sdkfz has no life. It is a true hanger queen. No one is going to pull it out over an M3. So, threw a artillery piece on it and one box of vehicle supplies simultaneously and let's call it an addition.

 :aok
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: moot on July 17, 2009, 10:51:23 AM
The SDK has no life only if you don't do the homework.. Find the firing spots and you can take out large targets from out of sight in 3 seconds flat, each.  With some teamwork you can shut down a small field in just 3 seconds.  5 SDKs all set in firing position with supplies out, or 3 SDKs with some maneuvering involved.  You'd have to know the firing positions and drive from the first to second (with 1 SDK free to backup any of the other 2 with .5 hangar's worth of ordnance), but even that's just a matter of seconds.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: 1Boner on July 17, 2009, 11:05:29 AM
Reviving this one.

The sdkfz has no life. It is a true hanger queen. No one is going to pull it out over an M3. So, threw a artillery piece on it and one box of vehicle supplies simultaneously and let's call it an addition.

 :aok


Watched a "squad" in EW take down HQ with sdkfz 251s and Lvts the other nite.

How much faster would this thing be than a Panzer if it had the gun in place?

If it was considerably faster, it would probably see alot more use than it does now.

Probably.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: RipChord929 on July 17, 2009, 11:08:36 AM
I LIKE IT  :aok  

For expert tankers, it should be a perk farmin monster, due to its vulnerability and risky nature...
But with good mobility, and heavy firepower..   Shoot and scoot, would be alot of fun in this unit...

C'mon guys, its an ambush weapon, never designed to stand toe to toe with tanks...

IMO, The game is becoming very much like canned ham... Great stuff, but a steady diet of it
gets boring, ya know?   I'd like a little spice in my food...

Lets put a little ginger on it!!!

RC
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: valdals2 on July 17, 2009, 11:14:52 AM
i would like to see this as a option to the troops carrer and add a flak version. but i still want a scout vehicle with a gun capable of taking on tanks like the puma ior the version with the 75mm gun
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on July 17, 2009, 11:49:18 AM
The SDK has no life only if you don't do the homework.. Find the firing spots and you can take out large targets from out of sight in 3 seconds flat, each.  With some teamwork you can shut down a small field in just 3 seconds.  5 SDKs all set in firing position with supplies out, or 3 SDKs with some maneuvering involved.  You'd have to know the firing positions and drive from the first to second (with 1 SDK free to backup any of the other 2 with .5 hangar's worth of ordnance), but even that's just a matter of seconds.

Moot,

I have completed that homework assignment last year. The sdk's rockets are quite devastating from 2 Km out. Most guys are not going to complete that assignment.

So, an artillery piece and a box of vehicle supplies gets this puppy some more time. I agree with RipChord. This is an ambush wagon, perk mobile...

Also it can be given the option of carrying three troops or a box of vehicle supplies. Now you can go in and capture a base strapped to the teeth.  :D

Cheers...
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: waystin2 on July 17, 2009, 02:57:17 PM
I would like the option! :aok
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: bravoa8 on July 18, 2009, 12:31:07 AM
some m3s had 75mms on them too
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: l0newolf on July 18, 2009, 03:44:16 PM
WANT WANT!!!   +10         :x
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Ruler2 on July 18, 2009, 03:51:45 PM
some m3s had 75mms on them too

but they weren't very powerful


 +1 on this suggestion,I do a lot of ambushin when I'm in a gv,and the only perk-farmer now is the T34/76,it works pretty good,but it bounces around a lot and dosen't look as cool as an SDK :P
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: SmokinLoon on July 20, 2009, 06:15:16 PM
The 251/9 would be the better bet, imo.  Having a 75mm infantry gun to help take out towns similar in ways to the LVT4 would be nice.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: BaldEagl on July 20, 2009, 06:51:59 PM
With the extra speed over the Panzer and the higher ENY I could see this getting more use than the current SdK.

I use the current version at least a couple of times per camp.  It will absolutely destroy a strat factory and get there a lot faster than any other vehicle option with a reasonable ord loadout.  6x rockets + 4x supplies gives you 30 rockets plus two machine guns.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: RipChord929 on July 20, 2009, 07:25:41 PM
Heck man, I'd love to see the whole 251 family in the game...
Combined with the troop carriers, and rocket shooters we already have...

251/7, Pioneer vehicle, 3.7cm Pak, (packing explosives for command
detonation mines, and possibly the goliath) also carried treadway spans
for crossing AT diches, (if we ever get them, or bridges, in the game)..

251/9, 7.5cm howitzer, (fired HESH for AT work, as well as HE)..

AND YES, the 251/22 (Fast movin, heavy hitting, as stated earlier)

It this way we could have a whole Panzergrenadier Battalion on the field...
That would be COOL AS HELL!!! :rock

RC

Oh, Forgot the "Drilling" AA version as well
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: sirvlad on July 21, 2009, 09:52:16 AM
Last week I used the Sdkfz to take a port,it was already deacked,as I drove up I was fired at by a sherman.With some well timed turns I was able to dodge his fire and when I got close enough I blasted him with the rockets.He exploded and then I drove to map room and let out my troops.I captured the base befor he could get back out enough to fire at me. I towered out hopped in a m-16 peeked around the corner and there was that sherman again,so I tracked him real quick,towered out and let the ack tear him to pieces.I was laughing my !$@ off and I know he had to be hating it. That was only the 3rd time I`ve been able to kill a tank with the Sdkfz.One of those was a dr7 tiger,but thats another story.  :salute
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: R 105 on July 21, 2009, 11:38:25 AM
Yes the addition of an anti tank gun on the sdkfz 251 would be good thing to have. As it is now I can't see much use for the 251s since the M-3 is so much faster and not much easier to kill. Anti air craft guns package for the 251 would also be a good thing.

R-105
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 21, 2009, 12:44:04 PM
Yes, I stand corrected that is a 75mm Anti-Tank artillery piece. Even better! Well, think of it like this, self propelled artillery was never meant to go toe to toe with tanks. It sits off in the distance and PICKS its enemies apart. The ENY value on a Panzer IV is 25. The ENY value on a SdKfz 251 is 40. I see some nice points there as well as getting a nice thought more playing time in the MA. :aok

 :salute Greebo "Nice F6F Skills"...

The Sdkfz 251/22 was used in the anti-tank role, it wasn't used as mobile artillery.  The Sdkfz 251/9 was used as mobile artillery and fielded a low-velocity 75mm gun and the Sdkfz 251/2 was the mortar carrying version.

BTW- if you want mobile artillery in the game now we already have it in the LVT4 with the short barrel 75mm howitzer that is easily capable of laying down an artillery barrage from a distance on any target.


ack-ack
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on July 22, 2009, 12:04:51 PM
The Sdkfz 251/22 was used in the anti-tank role, it wasn't used as mobile artillery.  The Sdkfz 251/9 was used as mobile artillery and fielded a low-velocity 75mm gun and the Sdkfz 251/2 was the mortar carrying version.

BTW- if you want mobile artillery in the game now we already have it in the LVT4 with the short barrel 75mm howitzer that is easily capable of laying down an artillery barrage from a distance on any target.


ack-ack

You're right Ack... Poorly used definition of purpose. A mobile Anti-Tank vehicle or gun. Suits the unit much better.

 :salute
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: R 105 on July 22, 2009, 03:26:25 PM
Since the only indirect fire we have now is from the CV. The LVT-4 is just fine as field artillery in the direct fire mode. I don't think we will see  Forward Observers or a Fire Directional center for GV's anyway soon. However the sdkfz 251 with an anti tank gun may be a lot of fun to have and the 251 will see much more use because of it.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 22, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
I don't think we will see  Forward Observers or a Fire Directional center for GV's anyway soon.

IMO, that's one of the best roles for the jeep other than racing along the country side and seeing how far you can jump it.  The other day, I was actually in a LVT4 (yes, the rumors were true but flying the C-47 with troops rumor is just a lie, honest) and had a country mate in a jeep acting as my forward observer and directing my rounds in.  We managed to turret an Ostie when he drove behind it unseen and I was able to use the range on his icon to dial it in and hit the Ostie.


ack-ack
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: swareiam on July 22, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
IMO, that's one of the best roles for the jeep other than racing along the country side and seeing how far you can jump it.  The other day, I was actually in a LVT4 (yes, the rumors were true but flying the C-47 with troops rumor is just a lie, honest) and had a country mate in a jeep acting as my forward observer and directing my rounds in.  We managed to turret an Ostie when he drove behind it unseen and I was able to use the range on his icon to dial it in and hit the Ostie.


ack-ack

My Ex-Squad had an award to achieve for Forward Air Control. Scout from any aircraft, with recorder on, and destroy any GV in conjunction with a squadmate from the 8" guns of a fleet cruiser.
It was a fun award to win.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: BillyD on July 22, 2009, 04:00:33 PM
(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt86/splittiebus66/akak.jpg)



snapped a picture Ak Ak for the non believers. Unfortunately it got bungled so here is the artists rendering of you ground poundin     :D


btw this variant of the 251 looks cool....
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Tec on July 22, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
Damn Billy with those skills you should be working for ILM.
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: BillyD on July 22, 2009, 06:26:55 PM
well photoshop is tweakin so paint is the next best thing right....Right ;)
Title: Re: SdKfz 251/22 PAK-40 Modification
Post by: Nemisis on July 25, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
If we are gona get a self propeled gun then lets get the M12 155mm 'long tom'. It had, obvisouly, a 155mm cannon mounted on an M3 chassis.

It would kill any tank in the game, it would be an actual artty piece, and to be honest, that thing just looks plain cool.

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/self-propelled-guns/m12.asp (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/self-propelled-guns/m12.asp)

I know only a few hundred were made but then again only a couple hundred tigers were made to.

the numbers are just above the table. notice the 5 above the 100.