Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: StokesAk on November 23, 2008, 12:11:36 PM
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In the P51D Whitch is Better the 4x50MG pack or the 6x50MG Pack?
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i would say 6
:cool:
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I'd say it was personal preference. 4x .50cals are quite lethal, if you hit at the convergence point that is.
ack-ack
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I'd say it was personal preference. 4x .50cals are quite lethal, if you hit at the convergence point that is.
ack-ack
In terms of lethality, I would say the 6 .50s are more lethal because more guns/ammo?
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The P51D loaded with 50% fuel weighs 9368 pounds with the 6 gun package, and 9213 pounds with the 4 gun package. That's a 1.01% increase in weight with the 6 gun package... I would use that.
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In terms of lethality, I would say the 6 .50s are more lethal because more guns/ammo?
The lethality does increase.
ack-ack
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If you like 4 mg's just fly the B Poni.....its a much more fun aircraft to fight in modes other than BnZ.
Race
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The lethality does increase.
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Would think so...that's extra bullets being chunked at ya at the same time!
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If someone can't hit with 4 mgs then having 6 isn't going to make much difference.
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If someone can't hit with 4 mgs then having 6 isn't going to make much difference.
With that logic, why not just go to one MG and save yourself all that unneeded weight.
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With that logic, why not just go to one MG and save yourself all that unneeded weight.
Might as well.
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With that logic, why not just go to one MG and save yourself all that unneeded weight.
You miss his point. Adding a couple of more guns isn't going to make you any more accurate in your shooting. It just means you're going to be putting more lead down range.
ack-ack
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You miss his point. Adding a couple of more guns isn't going to make you any more accurate in your shooting. It just means you're going to be putting more lead down range.
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That's what I need, more guns = more bullets downrange = better probability of one of those bullets finding the mark. Spray and pray baby :)
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And there were numerous instances where pilots took out MGs to save weight with the logic if they couldn't hit with 4 they wouldn't hit with 6. The "Superbolt" took 4 of the 8 MGs out in an effort to increase performance. Many of the MTO Spit drivers took out the 4 303s and relied only on their 2 cannons in an effort to increase performance.
Keep in mind that many of the best 51 drivers scored the majority of their kills in 51Bs. Don Gentile, Duane Beeson being two examples who never flew D models in combat. Richard Turner of the 354th FG has written in a couple different places how he felt the Malcom hood, P51B was the best of the Mustangs with better visibility then the D, and better performance.
I guess it is much about personal preference.
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"With that logic, why not just go to one MG and save yourself all that unneeded weight."
It is exactly that logic why i wish the p39 had a .50 cal option for its cannon spot, with a ton of ammo "say 1000+ rounds"
yeah, i would not mind.
Imagine the 38 with x5 .50's laser guning targets like the A20G can.
Such a shame.
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personally i actually seem to get more kills w/4 50s than 6 or eight.
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With regard to a F4F the 4 gun package has more total ammo and longer firing time than the 6 gun package. I seem to hit better with a 4 gun as well. In 2 FSOs with F4F with 4 gun I have 10 kills. In one FSO with 6 gun I have 1 kill.
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Imagine the 38 with x5 .50's laser guning targets like the A20G can.
Such a shame.
Why? The 4x .50 cals and 20mm Hispano do the trick quite nicely on the P-38.
ack-ack
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Why? The 4x .50 cals and 20mm Hispano do the trick quite nicely on the P-38.
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Dang skippy! Then..when you're out of 20mm rounds and up to 10-15 kills..you can still kill with the 4 .50s!
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Ive shredded IL2s with a burst from an 8 gunned P-47. I assume all of you have to. Could you imagine doing the same with a 4 gun plane? Oh if your a good enough shot 4 guns is enough, weve all killed fighters with an M3 0.50 . But 8 0.50s is fearsome. 6 is good. And 4 is good enough.
I had a buddy who flew Jugs in Europe and he used knock the snot out of an entire railroad train with his 8 0.50s.
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That's the difference. What .50s could do in real life (to ground targets especially) and what they can do in game are different.
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With regard to a F4F the 4 gun package has more total ammo and longer firing time than the 6 gun package. I seem to hit better with a 4 gun as well. In 2 FSOs with F4F with 4 gun I have 10 kills. In one FSO with 6 gun I have 1 kill.
F4F with the 6x .50 cals has the same ammo load as those with 4x .50 cals. The reason why it seems like the F4F has more rounds is that the rounds are spread out between 4 guns instead of 6.
ack-ack
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Actually the F4F DOES carry more ammunition in the 4-gun configuration.
4 guns: 430rds/gun = 1720rds
6 guns: 240rds/gun = 1440rds
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Ive shredded IL2s with a burst from an 8 gunned P-47. I assume all of you have to. Could you imagine doing the same with a 4 gun plane? Oh if your a good enough shot 4 guns is enough, weve all killed fighters with an M3 0.50 . But 8 0.50s is fearsome. 6 is good. And 4 is good enough.
It is all about the convergence point and gun placement. Nose mounted guns have almost no convergence issue where wing mounted it is more critical.
If you are hitting with one gun with the 38 you are going to hit with all, at all reasonable distances. Same can not be said for wing mounted gun AC.
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In the P51D Whitch is Better the 4x50MG pack or the 6x50MG Pack?
Neither. It's the 8x.50 package in the Jugs.
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Ive shredded IL2s with a burst from an 8 gunned P-47. I assume all of you have to. Could you imagine doing the same with a 4 gun plane? Oh if your a good enough shot 4 guns is enough, weve all killed fighters with an M3 0.50 . But 8 0.50s is fearsome. 6 is good. And 4 is good enough.
I had a buddy who flew Jugs in Europe and he used knock the snot out of an entire railroad train with his 8 0.50s.
If you're shooting at d500+, odds are you would likely be able with 8, maybe with 6, and on a very very very lucky at conv shot all in the wing with 4.
However, you tuck that range into just over 300, with your convergence set appropriately, 4 50's will shred just about anything.
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If you're shooting at d500+, odds are you would likely be able with 8, maybe with 6, and on a very very very lucky at conv shot all in the wing with 4.
However, you tuck that range into just over 300, with your convergence set appropriately, 4 50's will shred just about anything.
I've taken the wings off 2-3 bombers so far this camp using only the 2x13mm's in a 109K-4 and have also done so with the 2x.50 cals in a Spit XVI. Any gun package can kill or shred with the right convergence, aim and time (time is the least important of these if the first two conditions are met).
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Ive shredded IL2s with a burst from an 8 gunned P-47. I assume all of you have to. Could you imagine doing the same with a 4 gun plane?
If you hit the tail section or the wing root on the Il2, it will be quite easy to take down. Historically, the wing root section and tail were structural weak points in the Il2. Another weak spot is the oil cooler on the Il2. If you read Hartmann's Blonde Knight, he described in detail on how he'd take down Il2s. He'd aim for the wing root area, tail or if he came in from below, aim for the oil cooler. Using his tactics, it's quite easy to take out an Il2 in one pass.
ack-ack
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To be honest, I find Il-2's rather easy to knock down so long as I don't overshoot as they're not hard to get a good solid tracking shot on. I just line up and hose him down with my .50s until something breaks.
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Neither. It's the 8x.50 package in the Jugs.
your all wrong 8 or 12 .303 guns :)
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I've been amazed with how hard the SBD hits. I've sawed of many a wing root with roughly 60 x .50 total ammo fired while fooling with it. It has certainly made me reconsidered my perceptions of lethality in the game. The .50 round is much much more lethal then generally perceived. It takes very few rounds (in the same general location) to do a lot of damage most of the time. I've sawed an IL-2 in half in 1 pass with roughly 100 rds on target. If you recognize the fundamentals of gunnery with the MG's then 4 guns is every bit as deadly as 6 in the sense that the 4 x 50 will deliver a critical mass of projectiles and give you more firing time then the 6 x .50 load out.
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6 guns deliver 50% more ammo in the same time....
Anyway, for 4 guns, try the P51B
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The .50 round is much much more lethal then generally perceived. It takes very few rounds (in the same general location) to do a lot of damage most of the time. I've sawed an IL-2 in half in 1 pass with roughly 100 rds on target. If you recognize the fundamentals of gunnery with the MG's then 4 guns is every bit as deadly as 6 in the sense that the 4 x 50 will deliver a critical mass of projectiles and give you more firing time then the 6 x .50 load out.
Yep, last night in the MW scored 10 kills using just the .50s on the P-38J. Used less than 800 rounds in total and most of the planes only needed a solid burst to the weak points (tail, wing root) for a kill. But then again, as mentioned before in regards to the P-38, no convergence issues to worry about. However, wing mounted .50s tend to do less damage than the ones mounted on the P-38 for the sole reason most P-51 drivers don't fire at the convergence point which results in more scattered hits and maybe they might get lucky and score a Golden BB hit. If the P-51 driver fires at the convergence point, the .50s will be deadly.
ack-ack
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In game terms, 6 is better for hunting buffs. 4 is fine of you are just going after fighters.
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In game terms, 6 is better for hunting buffs. 4 is fine of you are just going after fighters.
It's exact the other way around for me. Buffs are a big, steady targets, so 4 MG is more than enough to kill them. So last tour I mostly used the B Pony for buff hunting. But when engaging fighters, I do appreciate the 50% firepower increase for those brief snapshots on crossing targets.
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I think in the most part it is psychological,
Whilst I can't argue that 4 is better in terms of raw hitting power I find whenever I fly the B pony knowing that I only have 4 guns means that I make sure I only fire when the shot is most definately on (to not waste ammo). I do this as a general rule of thumb but I think 4 guns are better overall because whenever you swap back to 6 your aim is refined and having the extra 2 is a luxury.
4 50 cals with a solid converged burst is enough to take down a fighter aircraft. The B pony will help anyones shot improve :aok
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Don't forget the F4F/FM2.
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Sure, they might be "good enough" but thats not the same as saying they are "as good or better". No firepower equation is going to show that 4 50s is "better" than 6 (just in terms of damage per second of fire), especially when you are comparing apples to apples (same MG type and caliber, and wing mountings).
I will give one caveat to the above, in some setups, I prefer the F4F-4 with 4 MGs, but only because of the increased ammo and firing time (usually in SEA setups).
That aside the Pony B is a fine ride, and I prefer it in some ways to the D, like others do, for the same reasons.
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In game terms, 6 is better for hunting buffs. 4 is fine of you are just going after fighters.
Four is just fine for hunting buffs. You can kill a bomber with 4x .50 cals just as easy as you could with 6x .50 cals.
ack-ack
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Convergence is still the key. This is how NOT to shoot wing mounted guns...
(http://www.ahevents.com/SightView.jpg)
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you know what would be really cool? If we had flying sharks with lasers mounted on their heads.
What am I saying that's impossible! :noid :rofl
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Actually Puck, against Spitfires that IS a good way to shoot wing mounted guns. Can't tell you how many times I've knocked both wings off with one burst like that.
:D
Of course I can't tell you how many times I've gotten ASSISTS for that because someone put a single 20mm somewhere that didn't even scratch his paint. :furious
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I've seen guys land lot of kills in those 4 x MG planes. I don't know how they do it other then pratice and good gun converge.
I'm lucky if I can even knock down one plane with one of those things. Course i'm lucky to do that with 6 x MG as well. Being that I am little rusty, my hit precent gonna be very very much worse but all good fun :aok