Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Motherland on November 23, 2008, 12:41:15 PM
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A huge decrease in the La7's you normally see? I remember seeing them constantly... this tour I've only killed one and none have killed me. By contrast I've killed 14 SpitXVI's. Going across the board of squadies, it seems that this is true for the rest of them too (thanks, new stat pages :D )
Not that it really matters, it's just kinda funny that a plane that was once so common that it almost felt as if you couldn't go two sorties without seeing one now seems so rare.
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I've noticed this for the past 5 tours almost...LA7s dont even make my top 10 Kills of
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yep
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I kill spit 16s the most. I think 190s come second IIRC. I need to go back to when I had like 400+ kills.
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Shows how impressions can possibly be wrong.
Check out the stats......
P-51D has highest deaths for last 4-5 tours. As far as I know HT still uses the "death count" as a rough guide to plane usage. It is also starting be becme the biggest killer, time to set its ENY to 5 I think. (every one one in same situation got it)
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time to set its ENY to 5 I think. (every one one in same situation got it)
I still haven't understood why the 51D is at 8 ENY and not 5. And since it's at 8, why aren't there others at 8?
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A huge decrease in the La7's you normally see? I remember seeing them constantly... this tour I've only killed one and none have killed me. By contrast I've killed 14 SpitXVI's. Going across the board of squadies, it seems that this is true for the rest of them too (thanks, new stat pages :D )
Not that it really matters, it's just kinda funny that a plane that was once so common that it almost felt as if you couldn't go two sorties without seeing one now seems so rare.
La7 usage (kills+deaths combined) has dropped considerably since that plane was updated.
More analysis of that kind of stuff coming to you in about 5 weeks... when it's again time for another "Stats! Stats! Stats! One year of Aces High!" ;)
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The stats on the Pony surprised me to be honest, Most of the time when I meet one (Especially at alt) then it's a ho on merge, followed by a split S and then either a dive to the deck or keep the alt and "extend", so I'm surprised they get killed a lot.
spit 16's continue to be the choice for the "Duke Nukem" types, See a few Lgays here and there, but it's the 16's more than any, 190 D model continues to get a decent crowd and has anyone else noticed the P38 seems to have been getting more use too now?
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I still haven't understood why the 51D is at 8 ENY and not 5. And since it's at 8, why aren't there others at 8?
Because it turns, climbs, accelerates poorer, and packs less firepower than the other ENY 5 airplanes, and in the case of the La7, it is also slower?
The two exceptions to this are the Ta-152 and the P-47N. What I can't understand is why these are ENY 5.
I believe it would be reasonable for the P-51D, Ta-152, P-47N, 190 D9, 109 K, and Yak 9U to all have similar ENY of perhaps 8-10.
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La7 usage (kills+deaths combined) has dropped considerably since that plane was updated.
That's what confuses me the most... with the combination of the plane being updated, and TB's new soundpack in which the La sounds really awesome, the La5FN is kinda calling to me now... it's really a sexy aircraft.
I can understand a small drop in usage since the speedometer was screwed up when it was first released, but that didn't hurt the N1K much (in fact, I see even more of those now).
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I've only been to the DA recently, but there's a lack of La-7's in there too. It's all Spit 16, A6M, Niki, and F4U's in there.
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didnt any one tell you guys its PEEE 51 time its the new ride of the MA its so kewl everyone thats anyone flys a pee 51
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I would venture to guess that you don't see alot of La-7s because of its notorious reputation as a "dweeb" plane.
Imho the P-51 now wears the crown of dweebyness!
The King is dead.
Long live the King!
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I would venture to guess that you don't see alot of La-7s because of its notorious reputation as a "dweeb" plane.
Imho the P-51 now wears the crown of dweebyness!
The King is dead.
Long live the King!
The La had that reputation for years, with almost monthy recurring "perk it!" threads. Hard to imagine that all of a sudden players just stopped flying it because of that "dweeb" label.
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Hey Lusche
does HTC have a method of working out plane useage by chess piece?
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Was it "all of a sudden" or has it happened gradually?
Not sure how to find that out.
But it wouldn't be hard to imagine that the "dweeb" moniker had quite an impact on its usage over time.
If (some) people read or hear something enough, they will actually start to believe it.
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Hey Lusche
does HTC have a method of working out plane useage by chess piece?
Not that I know of.
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Was it "all of a sudden" or has it happened gradually?
Not sure how to find that out.
Some gradual decline, then (with update) a sudden drop.
-> kill stats in expanded format., select "all models" vs "all models" to see total kills & deaths for any given tour.
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The La7 got nerfed when it got it's overhaul right ?
edit: where can you view all these stats you lads are talking about ?
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edit: where can you view all these stats you lads are talking about ?
look at the post just above yours... ;)
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look at the post just above yours... ;)
I'm a dumb ass, thank you Lusche.
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has anyone else noticed the P38 seems to have been getting more use too now?
Funny you mention that. The P-38L and J combine together for the fighter I've killed the 2nd most this tour, behind the P-51D.
I've also noticed that the La-7 is not nearly as prevalent as it used to be.
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Funny you mention that. The P-38L and J combine together for the fighter I've killed the 2nd most this tour, behind the P-51D.
I've also noticed that the La-7 is not nearly as prevalent as it used to be.
yepp.. combined, p38L and J are my #1 killed, followed by P51D, spit 16 and f4u1d, typh, THEN la7.
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As for me, I dont fly them nearly as much as I used to simply because I dont have to chase anyone down anymore, it was the only thing that would catch the fleeing pickers, now they come, they stay, they die. :salute
:rofl
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I've noticed what seems to be a steady increase in the use of all of the planes that like to come in high, boom and zoom. It seems there is a trend to fly what I would call "more safely" or perhaps "more timidly". Seems like a lot of P51s, Typhies, and 190s lately.
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The stats on the Pony surprised me to be honest, Most of the time when I meet one (Especially at alt) then it's a ho on merge, followed by a split S and then either a dive to the deck or keep the alt and "extend", so I'm surprised they get killed a lot.
spit 16's continue to be the choice for the "Duke Nukem" types, See a few Lgays here and there, but it's the 16's more than any, 190 D model continues to get a decent crowd and has anyone else noticed the P38 seems to have been getting more use too now?
ive noticed all of this too Tunes. how odd? are people changing so much that the La is boring, and now the spit 16 is the new "hot" plane to be flying? as far as the P51, think it was Banshee, he asked why it was ENY 8. I think its 8 because its superior to ENY 10 rides (in some, not all categories), but unless flown right, out classed by most ENY 5 rides. thats just why i feel the P51 is ENY 8.
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My impression was that there was a stint where about all you saw were the Ndisles type of maps with longer distances between bases and lots of CVs. It just so happens that during that time the LA-7 was updated.
The plane that benefitted at that time was the F6-F, which had a jump in usage, and the LA-7 declined pretty significantly, IMO because it's flight time was too limited to press any kind of attack with it.
Now that people moved on to other aircraft, they just haven't gone back.
That is my opinion and impression.
That having been said, it would be interesting to see some hard data to see if there indeed was a performance hit with the update, but I suspect not.
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I tested the waters in it today and it doesn't seem any different then before, but then again it's been so long since I've played with the beast.
I would love to hear from one of the HTC staff to confirm if they have tweaked the La7 flight performance when they redid the textures.
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It wasn't nerfed.
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maybe it is just a mental thing or a deceptive feeling based on perception, but i don't like the La7 since it got its overhaul.
i use to fly it alot, it was my most common ride. but since the update my accuracy with it went to poop, it doesn't feel like it turns as tight as it did before and it felt like it had been hobbled and just wouldn't gain speed like it use to.
now as i said this could have just been a matter of perception and not fact. something about the new setup i just didn't like from the moment i got it on the runway.
it just doesn't feel like the ride it use to be.
FLOTSOM
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La7 usage (kills+deaths combined) has dropped considerably since that plane was updated.
Figures. The less cartoonish it looks, the less it's used. :P
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I only fly russian. In the MA/DA i have seen only a few la's, In the DA the guy in the LA-7 always gets the most kills, (i have been flying the yak lately). but in the MA i like flying the la-7 i can go against a horde,get a kill or two, then run away from the ganging. I pretty much only fly the la-7 for these reasons.
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It feels much less responsive in yank-n-bank since the upgrade, and feels much more sluggish and mushy pulling high Gs through turns. Used to be a real EZ-mode plane, now less so.
All perspective, naturally. Perhaps the old LA7 had low-fi data sampling over the wings or whatever, so that when they remodeled it, and redid all the stats (same stats, new model) the little things like "feel" and "responsiveness" were changed.
Whereas all the numbers are met, maybe just the little things got changed, intentionally or not.
Feels totally different. First time I upped it after the redo I could barely turn and get behind a con, felt like I was the underdog in every fight.
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In Oct 07, total kills for La-7 were 33,568.
The kill numbers were pretty consistant up until march of 08. (the month of the La-7 update)
One month later the numbers had dropped aprox. 10,000 kills, to 20,437.
In Oct.08 total kills were 14,629.
And Nov 08 seems to be on track to see the lowest # yet, with one week left the total kills for the La7 are a mere 8343.
Looks like the update was the culprit.
I was wrong.
I hate it when that happens. ( It happens alot)
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My gut feeling is I'm seeing far less LAs.
There must be some other dynamic at work here because I don't see any performance lag with the update and certainly improved graphics wouldn't cause it. Its still a one dimensional defense fighter like its always been. I cant figure out what the dynamic would be and would have to see hard data regarding performance change. Cause I myself cant feel it and I fly them a lot.
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as a long-time Lala pie-let... who was on break when the La7 was updated (came back in aug/sept) it seems pretty much the same to me, except i don't remember those dam leading edge slats popping out so much at higher speeds when banking, manuvering. I recall tilt mentioning these slats were gravity (AoA) activated or something and that many pilots taped/welded or bolted them closed. Might've been 109's too.. i dunno
The LA7 was never an "easymode" any more than the pony/fw190d9 is if you fly them at speed and maintain that speed.
Can the La7 do awesome stuff? Sure, but it requires at least some understanding and "work."
I think the KI-84, spixteen, 109k and f4u series have drawn away some of the La pilots/kills.
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LA7 night tonight then lads :aok
Please direct any whines towards the OP :D
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I'm not a huge fan of slates when it comes to the La7, when I get slow and pull for the shot they will always pop out and in, screwing up my shot. :confused:
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i used to fly the LA7 a lot, and yes when it was updated i stopped flying it. i just felt it responded poorly to slow turns after the update, among other things. it surely didn't feel the same after the update. i hope a CM can enlighten us on this, or most probably i think it's just meh. =)
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A huge decrease in the La7's you normally see? I remember seeing them constantly... this tour I've only killed one and none have killed me. By contrast I've killed 14 SpitXVI's. Going across the board of squadies, it seems that this is true for the rest of them too (thanks, new stat pages :D )
Not that it really matters, it's just kinda funny that a plane that was once so common that it almost felt as if you couldn't go two sorties without seeing one now seems so rare.
I took a break for a week. I should be on tonight. Let me know where you are at and we could arrange a death to a LALA for you :rofl
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I've noticed what seems to be a steady increase in the use of all of the planes that like to come in high, boom and zoom. It seems there is a trend to fly what I would call "more safely" or perhaps "more timidly". Seems like a lot of P51s, Typhies, and 190s lately.
lol m8, that's how it's always been ;)
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I've noticed what seems to be a steady increase in the use of all of the planes that like to come in high, boom and zoom. It seems there is a trend to fly what I would call "more safely" or perhaps "more timidly". Seems like a lot of P51s, Typhies, and 190s lately.
Timid? The object of any form of Military combat is to make the OTHER guy die for HIS country. Getting kills and landing them in not IMHO timid but smart. If one were to follow the pfactordave "rules", "one" would fly his "E" fighter low and slow into a furball so that pfactordave could wax "ones" tail and send "one" to the tower to ponder why "one" was so stupid as to fly an "E" fighter low and slow into a furball where pfactor dave could get an easy shot.
Just kidding Dave!
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Here are my top 5 kills this tour so far:
1. P51D:27
2. Spit16:21
3. Niki:15
4. F4U1-D: 12
5. F6F, Lanc & LA-7: 9
So it just barley reaches my top 5.
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Timid? The object of any form of Military combat
If we were talking face to face, I would have stopped you right there and pointed out that it's a game. :D
I stand by timid though. It is a very timid way to play the game when you don't engage unless you are 5k+ above your target, then return to that advantage after every pass. Little risk involved. But whatever, to each his own. I just find it incredibly boring.
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Here are my top 5 kills this tour so far:
1. P51D:27
2. Spit16:21
3. Niki:15
4. F4U1-D: 12
5. F6F, Lanc & LA-7: 9
So it just barley reaches my top 5.
my top 5 are (aircraft only):
1. Spit 16:35
2. P51D:27
3. N1K:23
4. Seafire:20
5. A6M5B, F6F5, IL2, Spit VIII, Typhoon IB: 15
La7 places # 6, tied with Hurricane MKIIC at 12 kills of it. go back to January 2008 and it was #3, February (when they updated it), it was #2, and in march, after the update it was #5. slow, but gradual decrease. :salute
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If we were talking face to face, I would have stopped you right there and pointed out that it's a game. :D
I stand by timid though. It is a very timid way to play the game when you don't engage unless you are 5k+ above your target, then return to that advantage after every pass. Little risk involved. But whatever, to each his own. I just find it incredibly boring.
Well what fun is it to try and turnfight in a P51 or a Dora-9 against a spixteen or a 109F4, or anything else?
You might get away with it a few times, but the vast majority of the time "taking risks" is usually just plain suicide vs a competant turn n' burn stick.
I dunno, it seems kinda foolhardy to me to just jump out and say the fighting style that suits these planes as being "timid".
Working an energy fight, even rudimentary boom and zoom, has it's risks. One misjudgement on a spit16 can have your precious aluminum angel being menaced at the top of a zoom.
That being said however, I agree that those who make one pass then run 3 sectors to ack are more then a bit "timid" as you say.
What about the energy fighter who hangs above you, forcing you to deplete your E, giving him an easy shot? That's not timid, that's just flying smart.
Lot of murky water here, and I'd hate to see half the fighters in the stable become hangar queens simply because some people thing their flying style is "teh lame".
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No one has mentioned that the pre updated LA-7 cockpit was less restrictive. the new version isn't as view friendly, although I like it much better. I have never been able to hit anything in either la except the trees and the ground.
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Well what fun is it to try and turnfight in a P51 or a Dora-9 against a spixteen or a 109F4, or anything else?
You might get away with it a few times, but the vast majority of the time "taking risks" is usually just plain suicide vs a competant turn n' burn stick.
Well, you and MjrIssue and others are right. That would be stupid. However, I think you are missing the point of the question. Let me help :lol The question is: Given what you guys say, why are you in those planes picking on the low and slow or otherwise engaged planes and then disappear from dar? Why aren't you guys in a109F4 a Ki84 a Spit a NIKI a 110 a Ki61 a G2 a D11 etc? Why do you pick the plane that will give you the excuse for not fighting?
Oups, I answered myself :rofl
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:lol
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Sometimes you run into a guy with exact same plane that you are flying, and he still will run.
I chased a guy in an La-7 last nite for almost 2 sectors on the deck.
He never turned once, but yet took pot shots at planes we would come up from behind on.
Dragged me almost 2 sectors to one of his V bases.
Sometimes I guess these guys just WON'T fight, even if the odds are even.
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Well, you and MjrIssue and others are right. That would be stupid. However, I think you are missing the point of the question. Let me help :lol The question is: Given what you guys say, why are you in those planes picking on the low and slow or otherwise engaged planes and then disappear from dar? Why aren't you guys in a109F4 a Ki84 a Spit a NIKI a 110 a Ki61 a G2 a D11 etc? Why do you pick the plane that will give you the excuse for not fighting?
Oups, I answered myself :rofl
Way to take it out of context there, tough guy :aok
Read the whole post.
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Well, you and MjrIssue and others are right. That would be stupid. However, I think you are missing the point of the question. Let me help :lol The question is: Given what you guys say, why are you in those planes picking on the low and slow or otherwise engaged planes and then disappear from dar? Why aren't you guys in a109F4 a Ki84 a Spit a NIKI a 110 a Ki61 a G2 a D11 etc? Why do you pick the plane that will give you the excuse for not fighting?
Oups, I answered myself :rofl
EXACTLY! This is precisely what I was talking about. Sure, using the P51/190/Typhie in that manner is probably the correct way to use those planes. But it's pretty hard not to see that those planes are taking less risk. Hence, I call it timid. Seems to be the favorite "fighting" style of the average score potato too.
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Boring too I'd think.