Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: CAVPFCDD on November 24, 2008, 03:43:48 PM
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Hey guys, my prefered fighter these days, esp for jumping buffs is the 109G-14, love the weapons load out with the gondolas and the lonnnnng wep, i was wondering what 109's you guys like and why... i see alot of 109f-4s, i guess for the climb rate?
Anyway I'd love to hear arguments why I should try out some of the other 109's.
I know i can look up the stats for them online and I have, I'd just like to hear opinons from people who have put the birds to use.
Thanks! :aok
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Well, the ultimate dogfighter I've found to be is the 109G2. Skip the gondolas, and go for broke. 50 or 75% gas, with the drop tank.
It's a lil' friggin' sports car. You're able to run down pretty much anything, you can outclimb all but the best superfighters, once you're down to 3/4 flaps, she'll float nice n' easy- I've outturned spit XVI's in it.
It's a friggin' MONSTER.
:)
**Edit** People take the F-4 for the turn rate- she's a tad slower and climbs just a shade under the G-2. Think zero a6m2 vs a6m5- that's the kinds difference we're talking.
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Actually the ultimate 109 was the 109f4 when it still had gondies as an option. It's decent high end, good accel and climb and can be used very effectively e-fighting and to an extent turn fighting.
however, since they took the gondies away, the remaining armament is.. mediocre.. flys great. I find the 109g2 ( w/gondies :aok ) to be just as capable as the 109f and actually prefer the g2 over the g6 and g14 for the gondies and higher low alt top end.
all of the 109's are very capable machines, it boils down to a preference i guess as the trade offs are basically more speed for less low speed stability as the plane evolved. 109e is practically a UFO, lol, should see me and batfink dueling in them.
i've never been a big fan of the taters, tho' and my so-so gunnery requires the gondies, so g2 is it for me. <shrug>
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Opinions differ here, but I do not recommend taking 50% or 75% fuel plus a drop tank because the rack for the drop tank slows you down even after you release it (the rack also weighs 50lbs). Again, that's my opinion, experiment for yourself to see what you like. I take 100% fuel, and once you burn off the first 25%, which happens quickly, she handles just fine.
As for the other 109s, I think they all have something different to offer. Like Rebel said, the G-2 might be the most well rounded 109: it has both speed and maneuverability. The F-4 is fun for furballing because it can beat the later-mark Spitfires at their own game. The K-4 is what I take up when I absolutely must get to altitude fast and will be outnumbered. Its tater-o-death makes short work of anything in the air, and provides firepower equal to the gondola armed G-14 (3x20mm) without the drag penalty.
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Thx Anax- gonna ditch that drop tank now. Didn't think the shackle caused a performance hit :salute
Regarding firepower- if I'm goin for bombers, I take the gondolas. If it's just fighters, I tend to ditch 'em as I think it's too big of a sacrifice in maneuverability. If I need that many cannons I take up a 190 :)
One thing I learned a long time ago in WB's, flying with --ik-- regarding 109's- get in wicked close (I like inside of 200) and hammer your strikes home when you KNOW you'll hit. No fighter can withstand a 1/2 sec burst from the 151.
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One thing I learned a long time ago in WB's, flying with --ik-- regarding 109's-
:lol Small world. :salute
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:lol Small world. :salute
wait a sec....now I'm hoplessly confused. Stampf = ik? NO friggin way.
Weren't you in Ik's squadron?
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wait a sec....now I'm hoplessly confused. Stampf = ik? NO friggin way.
Weren't you in Ik's squadron?
:lol No, and No. Still a small world though. :aok ;)
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IK used to be a great alt monkey.
What was the latest model 109 in WB? I cant remember.
I remember chasing him around one day, but couldnt catch him.
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Isn't ik....?
:confused:
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Isn't ik....?
:confused:
Yeah. Yeah. Just got outta PM's with him. What a bastard that guy is. Gonna hunt his bellybutton now :D
<finger> ik :D
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Yeah. Yeah. Just got outta PM's with him. What a bastard that guy is. Gonna hunt his bellybutton now :D
<finger> ik :D
:lol :aok
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I personally prefer the F4. G2 is another good choice as well. Every reason why has already been stated :)
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IMO the G14 is the most versatile of the 109s. By versatile I mean in every role... not just 1v1 fighter combat. The G14 will do anything you want it to as far as fighter combat goes, as long as you don't get it too fast (and even then it's pretty controllable if you're good with elevator trim). It's the fastest available of the G series on WEP, which is all that really matters with 10 minutes of it. You can load the 20mm, 30mm and gondolas based on your preference, which makes it great for bomber killing (personally I prefer 3 20mm's for low alt and 1 30mm for high alt). It's even a pretty decent JaBo aircraft. On top of all of that, it has the Galland head armor and the refined canopy (which for some reason I can't recall the name of right now) for better visibility than any other of the 109's beside the 109K.
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Hey bubi. Nice winging with you yesterday :)
Got to disagree on your assessment of the G14 vs the K4, tho. The Kurfurst is faster at every altitude than the G14 (around 370mph@SL, 400mph@5000feet, 430@17000feet, 450mph@22000feet for the k4, around 360@SL, 380mph@5000feet, 410@17000feet, 405mph@22000feet for the G14), has a slight climb advantage with WEP on (wep off the G14 is slightly better due to its lighter airframe), and if you keep yourself in the vertical in close 1 on 1 fights it's also better than the Gustav-14.
The Kürfurst doesn't have the weapon options the G14 has, though. But for me at least isn't a problem because I never use the 109 as a jabo, never load gondolas in the 109s, and if I can load the 30mm I won't get the hub MG151/20. At the distances you should be firing with the 20mm to achieve sustained hits (unless you have god-like accuracy, and I don't) you should be able to hit with the 30mm aswell. And the difference in punch is immense.
for me the best 109, though, is the G2. At least if we understand "best" as "the one you can fly and dominate enemies in more than just one way" or "the one which allows for some errors in judgement and still get you out of trouble". In pure performance capabilities, there's no 109 approaching the capabilities of a K4, though.
Where the K4 and G14 are pure E-fighters with little room to act as a turnfighter, the G2 ,being an amazing E-fighting plane, can actually give even an early Spit a rough treatment in a close turning contest (as long as you keep using some vertical to counter his better turnrate). It's ability to turn, and turn well, mixed with it's high E-building capabilities mean the G-2 allows for mistakes that in a K4/G14 would mean your virtual death (translation, a slow G2 is still very maneouverable. A K4/G14 at low speeds is wanting to stall on you).
S!
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I like K-4 most. Fast, exellent climb, manouvers medicore and i am used to potatogun.
F-4 and g-2 are good for dogfigting, but f-4 is a bit too slow against latewar monsters, oneway ticket plane :cry :D
I too remember that bastard altmonkey --ik--. Was allways nice to know someone would be even higher than me in WB`s. :lol
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My preference is the g14 because it has a powerful engine combined with the option of a hub 20mm cannon. It has the speed to chase down everything but the latewar rides with the versatility i feel the 20mm has over the 30mm.
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Thank you everyone for your replies, by all means keep posting your thoughts on the various 109's :salute
i would also like to pose another question, do the gondolas significantly effect handling? I've always heard a mix of answers to that one...
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Thank you everyone for your replies, by all means keep posting your thoughts on the various 109's :salute
i would also like to pose another question, do the gondolas significantly effect handling? I've always heard a mix of answers to that one...
Well, they add drag and weight. So yes, it affects handling. In the heavier planes it doesn't effect their fight so long as they stick to the fight they were designed for (read K4 and G-14 here). But in the G-6 and under classes, it takes away half of the fighting capacity before you're even on the runway.
That being said, if you need to get to alt very quickly to tackle an incoming stream of bombers nothing is quite as effective as a 109 loaded for bear with 3 20mm or the 30mm/2 20mm option.
Like I said before, if you want that many 20mm's, go with the 190's. They're better suited to the style of fighting that you'll be forced into anyway.
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I too remember that bastard altmonkey --ik--. Was allways nice to know someone would be even higher than me in WB`s. :lol
LOL!
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I preferably enjoy flying the G6 overall. I have no clue why, but I always seem to get myself out of trouble in tricky situations. I usually take 100 and gondies, but after tonight I would might want to reconsider with the Gondies. I seem to have a better aim without the gondies, but don't know why. It can take me 6 shots or less to kill someone without gondies. My guess would be that the gondies hurt the aim of the aircraft in some way.
Any reasons why the gondies produce poor aim?
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I use 3 different 109s like tools. f4 50%-75% fuel for base defense and at 100% for the occasional uber furball. G2 100% for offense when we (knits) have the numbers advantage. And k4 50% w/drop tank for offense to BnZ and run away if need be.
So far it seems that my survivability is much better in f4 and k4 than the g2 used in the afor mentioned roles.
But I am by no means even a marginal stick yet. So even using a word like survivability is humorous.
I have however developed a love for 109s and hopefully with continued practice will develop some skill with them as well.
I am Buddy in game
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My favorite 109 is the G6, with gondolas for buff busting (or GVs/boats) and without for fighters. The 13mm cowl guns have much better punch for a quick "boom" kill.
I take the gondies if I'm just going on a patrol and not headed into an established fight, that extra firepower can make a quick snapshot into overkill. But not having them leaves you at a bit of a disadvantage if you run into buffs.
I usually go either 100% or 75%, and almost always have a DT at takeoff. I also set my view with my POV raised all the way up, doesn't move too much, but it gives you a bit better view over the nose for those high runs on buffs and tracking shots on fighters. Don't have enough ammo to waste. :aok
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This thread is going to make me fly 109's tonight. :aok
Anyone up for a 109 flight or two tonight?
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k4 handles great. No need to run in it or B&Z. You just have to manage your throttle and angles like in any other plane.
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I like the K4 the best. It's a monster and can do amazing things when flown properly. You just need to keep a hand on the throttle at all times when engaged. The G14 is close but not quite a K4.
The G2 probably has the best balanced flight envelope but the G6 isn't far behind and provides a little more challenge when e-fighting.
The F4 is the best furballer but the E4 is fun too and provides more of a challenge due to the poorer cannons. It also helps make the E4 a good perk farmer.
Fly them all depending on what you want to do. There's one for every occasion but leave the gondolas and drop tanks behind unless you're specifically buff hunting (even then I don't use them).
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This thread is going to make me fly 109's tonight. :aok
Anyone up for a 109 flight or two tonight?
lol i'll see you up there, love me my 109's :rock
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The K-4 is a good fighter for booming bombers. .30mm cannon in a B-17's fuel tank :aok
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109G2 for me personally. I won't touch a drop tank with a ten foot pole, and I have the option for a bomb which is always fun. Either 50% or 75% fuel for me is fine for me; I don't plan on living long flying straight to the enemies base at 500 feet.
It must have yellow on the nose, and yellow on the underside of the wingtips is even better! This is a must have or I will not fly that 109 (exception being the 109G6 with the red nose, absolutely beautiful!)!
Other then that, I fly around hoping to one day be half as good as Texture.
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The only good G2 is a green G2. :rock
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I like the moo cow G2
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F4 for me. Love the feeling when you can out-do anything vs a spit16 in an obsolete plane.
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For me it is also the f4. It is an awesome feeling tearing up a spit 16 with an outdated fighter. Funny, coming from someone who was a spit guy up until about 6 months ago. I have a new found respect for the 109 series since flying them. I am amazed at what a monster each and every one is. In the right hands they are death to all who approach.
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As most of you know I'm usually a Spit XVI dweeb. The F4 gives me fits. Even though I'm 2.5 K/D against it over the past 6 months it's one of the toughest fights to win in a XVI.
I ran into one a few nights ago that gave me all the fight I could handle. I finally was just gaining an edge after a several minute fight when the guy augered but it was one of the best one on one's I've had in months.
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I like the 109F-4 because of the cool yellow nose skin :) reminds me of a pilot from ww2 that had that skin, got nailed by a p-51 in a cool move thow.. just like me a ok fighter that always gets killed by someone in a cool move.. or is it just my bad move? idk..
anyways.. i like the F-4 because i love fighting spits in their little game, i love turning with them, and i love when their surprised how sometimes i out turned them and out maneuvered them and took away their wing. what i don't like is how sometimes after killing 3 I'm going back to base n get killed by suprise cuz if someone is on ur 6 and a little below u,,u cant see them, and i cant out run them in the F-4.. but still ill take killing spit in turn and e fights over getting killed by my lack of experience in seeing my surroundings
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I absolutely love the f4. I have experienced that problem before as well. ussualy I just hit the deck for rtb to attempt to solve that as an enemy plane can't hide in the low six position because of the ground and pesky trees. I have even got some free kills via auger from enemy pilots diving on me.
On a different note. I started experimenting alot more with using my throttle in turns and holy crap. As I am a noob I still have the pleasure of these epiphanies. I could be wrong but it seems that with 25% or less full when I go from around 40% back full throttle while turning the engine "whips" the nose in the direction I am turning. Extremely improving my turn. Especially if there is a vertical element to my turn. Can you more experienced f4 pilots confirm this?
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On a different note. I started experimenting alot more with using my throttle in turns and holy crap. As I am a noob I still have the pleasure of these epiphanies. I could be wrong but it seems that with 25% or less full when I go from around 40% back full throttle while turning the engine "whips" the nose in the direction I am turning. Extremely improving my turn. Especially if there is a vertical element to my turn. Can you more experienced f4 pilots confirm this?
Use the torque, Luke. :aok
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Torque, and you get a quick tightening of the turn when those slats pop. 109 is very responsive to throttle jockeying.
Also, the 109 is one of the best reasons to get rudder pedals, the rudder on that thing is one of the most effective and responsive around.
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yeah, I want pedals but right now electricity takes priority. :lol I do however have a twistie stick and use the rudder almost constantly when not in level flight or just straight climbing. I love the monster on a leash feeling with the 109's.
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You guys (you know who you are) were of course right. the k4 is the way to go with 109s. I might still use the f4 for the role of outnumbered low alt base defense. But the k4 is a beast and will be getting all the other stick time I have.
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Btw, in the K-4 you want to set the convergence of the tater and mg's separately. A lot of us use ~400 yards for the mg's and ~200 for the 30mm. Experiment and see what works for you.
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oh ok will experiment with that have had them both at 200 for sometime. Makes sense tho, since I primarily use the 13mms for ranged or scare'em into turning shots. The one hit devastation (against most planes) of the tater is so gratifying.
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What has convergience to do with central armament? Only the drop, right?
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Correct. I put the 30mm at 250 where I generally take my shots. Some recommend further out to help with turning shots where the target will be under your nose but with such a big cannon round I don't see the point as it moves so slow everything in a turning shot will be under your cowling out of sight.
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<---K4 Mk108 convergence set at 250. Take shots from D600 max. Works fine for me, just compensate for the drop with alot of lead.
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i like the g 6 its good speed and its good guns make it pretty good and at high altitude it turns like the rv8
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The g6 has a few of my favorite 109 skins, the one with the italian colors on the verticle stab is awesome. Unfortunately I've never been terribly successful in the g6. I've tried with only the hub gun but I find I do better with the gondolas. My aim is pretty bad and hitting with 3 20mms instead of one makes a big difference.
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G6 is an outstanding aircraft and a truely amazing one once you learn it. She doesn't have the engine power or the top end speed as some of the other 109s ( not including the E, F models ).
Her firepower is her biggest assist since it has the 13mm cowling MG guns instead of the 7.9mm cowl guns on the G2. Her maneuverability is also debatable. On paper, yea her maneuverability is worst than that of the G2, actually the G2 is superior in every way to the G6 except firepower.
The G6 also has some of the best 109 skins in the game and that is another reason why i fly the G6. ( Best 109 JG11 skin to date ) & the extra firepower mixed with my excellent gunnery makes short work of bandits once i saddle. I also do not have no problem making the G6 dance like a G2, you just have to be aware of your surroundings since once she's slow it's a pain building E because of the engine power.
The 20mm combined with the 13mm MG cowlings makes short work of alot of single engined fighters. Shouldn't take no more than a 1-2 second burst to down a fighter if you're hitting some critical spots ( I normally aim for the wings or cockpit. )
Also another note, the G6 can't catch alot of the Late war planes in a drag race so chances are if you're being tailed and don't have the E or Alt advantage you'll be engaging him very soon.
Hope this helps. :salute
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which bird turns better, the F-4 or K-4, i can't tell much of a different, they both handle really nice, been flying F-4s alot after i posted this thread, and i must say, I'm in love :)
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F4
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(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5311/clipboard01ms5.jpg)
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thank you lusche, but a couple of those bottom graphs are going to need a bit of explaining, i think i understand the info but i'm a little confused
sustained turn raidius , now that is the radius(circle) the plane can maintain, so basically with a radius of 135 the F-4 with flaps down turns the tightest? is that right
and i'm going to need explain on the sustained degrees and the sustained 360 degree time
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thank you lusche, but a couple of those bottom graphs are going to need a bit of explaining, i think i understand the info but i'm a little confused
sustained turn raidius , now that is the radius(circle) the plane can maintain, so basically with a radius of 135 the F-4 with flaps down turns the tightest? is that right
and i'm going to need explain on the sustained degrees and the sustained 360 degree time
The time to complete a 360 circle (and thus the degrees you are flying per second) depend on both your turn circle radius and turn speed.
Two planes may have the same turn radius, but if my plane does fly that very same circle at a higher speed than yours, I have the 360 turn finished quicker than you, and the degrees per seconds is higher. (Which may an advantage or disadvantage, depending on initial situation)
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Since when is the possibility of more degs per second a bad thing? :huh
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Stampf = ik ???
Still remember when I had the only kill of -ik- during a TOD in WB <S>
I tried 109g6r6 last month and its a decent fighter,IF you have patience, AND you can assess the situation many vs many.
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yeah well if you fly at the right pressure zone in feet it can be a good fighter
i like the g14 a little better the g 2 is just too easy turnin ive flown it and when i put rudder in a turn it spins pretty bad
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G14, 100% fuel (75% for base defence) and tater. No need to inform me that the K4 is "better", cause it aint for me.
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G14, 100% fuel (75% for base defence) and tater. No need to inform me that the K4 is "better", cause it aint for me.
The K-4 is the best. ;)
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In theory :cool:
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This is why I love my K4:
Some k4 action in the DA furball lake for your viewing pleasure :cool:
109K4 DA Furball Lake fun (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?kmkgujiz2jt)
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G2's my favorite Luftwaffe plane, don't fly many Luftwaffe planes though :D
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well I'd just like to say for half of the last tour and most of this one I've been flying the k4 with pretty good success, thanks guys for making me fall in love with a new plane.
I can't get enough of it, really helped me conserve my ammo too, one or two burst's on someone with that 30mm and they are either swiss cheese or they blow up entirely.
I just can't say enough good things about this plane, it feels just right for me, so thanks everyone for the wisdom and showing me the light to convert to the k4, it really is just a dream to fly.
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my 109 useage list is as followed
Bf109K4- used for an assault for main fighter, fighter sweep, maby an occational b-25 or il2.(hvy bombers if im feeling "balzy")
Bf109G-14 w/ Gondies - strictly Heavy bomber interceptor.
Bf109 G-6, dont fly.
Bf109 G-2 - for fun and will take up for fast perks and will tnb a lil in it
Bf109 F4 - same as G-2
Bf109 E4 - tnb in furballs, will bnz if hurri/zero shows up :D
and that is a quick rundown for my useage list :salute
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Love the green hearted g2, best of all worlds.
Allways with droptank, it is bigger then internal fuel.
I usually drop it after killing those big american planes ;)
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love the K4 and the G14 with its options. Both are alsways a big threat in right hands. i remember when i changed over from wb to ah2, we (flubby and me) got a fight in angels 22 vs pjk and jannek. we were all in 109 k4 and g14. was a blast. great fight, all went rtb, no kills, but great fun!
The F4 can be real nasty, the G2 as addition to a g14 wing can be real helpfull.
I dont like the g6, didnt like the FM, miss the G10
<S>
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i would preffer 109 g6 throw rudder and yaw in it does moderatly good
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I fell in love with the 109F-4. And I can lend her on a CV. And take cruise to the other side of the map :devil Refuel and get ammo and go kill ^^ :devil :devil :rock.
:salute
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BTW I been Flying the 109f-4 for that past few weeks any tips please would be awesome. :rock :salute