Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Curlew on November 29, 2008, 03:28:31 AM
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http://www.hulu.com/videos/search?query=whale+wars
First off I would like to say this is the poorest attempt at seamanship I have ever seen, I fully beleive that my tallship crew of highschoolers and college kids could do a better job sailing then these idiots, for those of you who know nothing about sailing or seamanship, just know these guys blow harder than tornado force winds.
So basicly these guys are eco-pirates (self proclaimed) who sail around antartica (and the artic which they dont show), trying to stop japaneese whaling research by ramming thier ships, and let me tell you these are huge thousands of tons ships, and throwing tear gas or acid on the ships or painting all over the ships. Then they give stupid half thought out reasons as to justify themselves and vilinize teh japanese. They also give stupid explanations as to try and prove that the japanese are trying to cover it up by writing stuff like RESEARCH or WE ARE LEGALY COLECTING SAMPLES AS PER INTERNATIONAL LAW in english on their ships in big letters in english. So the sea shepards go " hey so they wrote it in english so they look ok to other countries but so the japanese people wouldnt care because they dont care"....ENGLISH IS THE INTERNATIONAL MARITIME LANGUAGE YOU TARDS!!! You have to write that kind of stuff in english otherwise your not legaly classified as a research vessel.
I just think these are a bunch of hippie idiots that some how got a big boat and a tv camera crew to follow them around and nothing more. I hope the japanese sink these guys, or somebody atleast. Nobody in the eco comunity likes them, green peace hates them because they arent helping to stop anything in a legal manner and it hurts their efforts. What the japanese are doing is perfectly legal and what sea shepard is doing could legaly be chared as piratcy.
Thoughts?
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Nobody likes what the Japanese are doing, but yeah those Sea Shepherd tossers are going to get someone killed - hopefully themselves.
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I think these whale types are a bunch of fools. Strange how they find no time in their day to protest the various man on man genocides/disasters and only have time for fish. Whales are like any other animal resource. Once their numbers have stabilized they should be hunted using scientific methods that ensure the continued survival of the various species.
There are plenty of Minke whales. Why shouldn't they be hunted? People have been eating whales for thousands of years.
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I think these whale types are a bunch of fools. Strange how they find no time in their day to protest the various man on man genocides/disasters and only have time for fish. Whales are like any other animal resource. Once their numbers have stabilized they should be hunted using scientific methods that ensure the continued survival of the various species.
There are plenty of Minke whales. Why shouldn't they be hunted? People have been eating whales for thousands of years.
I've been watching this series on Demand and i can't help but to laugh when i shouldn't. The self righteous jerk of a captain should have his license revoked and the officers tried for piracy.
(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z39/clerick44/Pyle_pirate_prisoner.jpg)
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I luv this show :rock
Got every episode so far on Dvr
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Typical earth muffins. The "cause" justifies any rediculous behavior.
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Some whales are in danger, but others are available in huge quantities.
I come from a whaling nation, and I do eat them :devil
However, we try to stay away from those with their numbers down. But for no use, idiots like sea shepheard scream out loud anyway.
The boss, Paul Watson, is one opportunitist, knighting himself with his holy crusade.
However if he shows up here in Iceland, he goes straight to jail.
The only organized sabotage/terrorist act ever to happen here is when his men sank two ships at anchor and sabotaged a processing plant.
It had no effect on the whaling, the country exited the international whaling committee, decided itself to stop, then started whaling again(very small numbers) a couple of years ago.
BTW, the biggest were the Russians as well as the Japanese. AFAIK, most dead whales are small whales as a co-catch in the USA (sheer numbers), but the biggest tonnage is Japan and/or Russsia.
Needless to say, neither Greenpeace or Sea Shepheard take a pass at the Russians...guess why :rofl
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I think these whale types are a bunch of fools. Strange how they find no time in their day to protest the various man on man genocides/disasters and only have time for fish.
Whales are not "fish"...they're Mammals. ;)
Whales are like any other animal resource. Once their numbers have stabilized they should be hunted using scientific methods that ensure the continued survival of the various species.
Hunting "using scientific methods" is not going to guarantee the survival of any species...there will always be a "scientific group of idiots" that will make the incorrect decision on how to manage the species in question. The vast majority of decisions made by the aforementioned scientific groups are most often influenced by greed/monetary gain. :(
Mother Nature, on the other hand has no use for "monetary gain", and therefore is the best method of natural management. :)
There are plenty of Minke whales. Why shouldn't they be hunted? People have been eating whales for thousands of years.
You're correct, people have been eating Whales for quite some time, however, hunting Whales with Whaling ships, either present or past was strictly "for profit"...not for survival.
As far as the "topic" is concerned...it's a "for profit program", BUT it also puts Whale hunting in a less than favorable light.
my $.02
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I've only seen a couple of shows but so far im not impressedd.
I'm no sailor but even I know the chain of command!. I think it was last weeks episode where 3 of the morons took off just before dark in a zodiac in rough seas to attack the japanese, at the same time the mother ship was headed to a rendezvous to pick up 2 other morons who got capture. long story short, they loose comunication with the zodiac, were late to the pick-up the capt was sleeping AND the crew were arguing about what to do!!! :O
luckily for them nobody got killed but they really could have lost the guys in the zodiac :uhoh
they look like fools and dont have their collective pooh together
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I watched the end of an episode last night, here is what I got:
They got their boat rammed by the Japanese, they said the Japanese were the BAD guys because they had just made sure the Japanese lost a full day's pay... They then get MAD at the Japanese because the Japanese want to throw their guys overboard or turn them in, something like that, and then they get them back....
That's 'bout as lame as it gets.... :rolleyes:
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I always find myself hoping the japanese win, go figure.
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Mother Nature, on the other hand has no use for "monetary gain", and therefore is the best method of natural management. :)
Well, you realize of course that "man" is one component of "Mother Nature". We're not observers here on earth, we're active participants. To sit back and not touch the environment is neither possible nor "natural".
What other portion of "Mother Nature" doesn't influence the eco-system in its own way?
In other words- Man, as part of nature, is therefore part of the best method of natural management. ;)
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luckily for them nobody got killed but they really could have lost the guys in the zodiac :uhoh
You mean Unfortainatley :aok, but yah, i watched this episode, they forgot to do a radio check first, which is essential, and took off, but the even funnier part is they were using a line of sight hand held radio that only has like 5 miles range, and they took off to go after something on the horrizon. so they lost communitcations but sdadly made it back. So to prevent this from ever happening again they decided to start using satilte phones. well two episodes later they were settin an ambush and the dingy forgot the sattilite phone...tards
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I just can't stand them. My mom and Sister LOVE the show, but these people are just plain dumb. Remember the episode where they illegaly boarded the Japanese ship, and expected the Japanese to just allow them on!?? No surprise to me that they would try to throw them off. My favorite part of that episode is when the Captain said that the Japanese have kidnapped their crew. :rofl Isn't kidnapping when THEY come and, well, KIDNAP? Not put your crew on their boat and call it kidnapping?? :lol They just highly underestimate the Japanese, and have no idea what they are doing. Their Captain said that he likes to think about it as a "war strategy" situation, or something like that...I would NOT eant to be under his command if he was in the military!
Anyone else notice a little part in the episode wear they show a TV with the clip of them illegaly boarding the ship and a sign below it saying "DO NOT USE!" ?? How about when they throw tear gas on the Japanese boat thinking they won't be able to handle the smell? If the Japanese can handle days of bombardment in WWII, TWO atomic bombs, and all those years of keeping their Empire standing don't ya think they can handle a foul smell?? :rofl
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Well, you realize of course that "man" is one component of "Mother Nature". We're not observers here on earth, we're active participants. To sit back and not touch the environment is neither possible nor "natural".
Disagree..it's possible to not touch the environment.."nature" was on a roll long before "man" arrived, and will continue to be on a "roll" long after we ("piss-ants") disappear from this rock. FYI, I view "man" as subservient to Nature, ie, upset Nature and you WILL "pay the piper" as it were.
One of the blaring problems throughout the history of man is there hasn't been enough observation BEFORE participating...look around, the evidence is overwhelming. :furious
What other portion of "Mother Nature" doesn't influence the eco-system in its own way?
In other words- Man, as part of nature, is therefore part of the best method of natural management. ;)
See above :D
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Disagree..it's possible to not touch the environment.."nature" was on a roll long before "man" arrived, and will continue to be on a "roll" long after we ("piss-ants") disappear from this rock. FYI, I view "man" as subservient to Nature, ie, upset Nature and you WILL "pay the piper" as it were.
One of the blaring problems throughout the history of man is there hasn't been enough observation BEFORE participating...look around, the evidence is overwhelming. :furious
See above :D
So, you're saying we're not part of the eco-system? That we're a seperated from it? An observer, but not a participant? What planet are you from?
I agree our actions as participants are often not healthy for the environment, but that doesn't mean we're not part of it. Can you eat, breath, walk, whatever, with zero effect on it?
Guessing that it will go along fine after we leave the game is true, it will. But who's to say anything "normal" will be left? Even if the planet is a void wasteland in the end, it'll still go on through time as happy as it's ever been...
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So, you're saying we're not part of the eco-system? That we're a seperated from it? An observer, but not a participant? What planet are you from?
I agree our actions as participants are often not healthy for the environment, but that doesn't mean we're not part of it. Can you eat, breath, walk, whatever, with zero effect on it?
Guessing that it will go along fine after we leave the game is true, it will. But who's to say anything "normal" will be left? Even if the planet is a void wasteland in the end, it'll still go on through time as happy as it's ever been...
"subservient implies the cringing manner of one very conscious of a subordinate position"..that was the meaning of my statement JFYI...which you obviously missed. :P
Where did I say: So, you're saying we're not part of the eco-system? That we're a seperated from it? An observer, but not a participant? What planet are you from?
I said "Disagree..it's possible to not touch the environment.."nature" was on a roll long before "man" arrived, and will continue to be on a "roll"
FYI, "straw-man" tactics won't work. This conversation is off to a bad start, so rather than get into a wizzing contest, I'll just end it now. :salute
dentin :cool:(from Planet Earth) :cool: has left the building
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Whales are not "fish"...they're Mammals.
Yeah, I know. I was just wondering if anyone was desperate enough to correct me.
I dont care what kinda critter they are. Fact is humans have always hunted, killed, and et, whales. I hear whale is good eating and wish I had a haunch to naw on right now.
I could live with the Greenpeace types if they didn't have their heads so far up their 6s. I think they are all products of Disney reality and anthropomorphizing animals. And their arrogance? They think they are above all law.
Hunting "using scientific methods" is not going to guarantee the survival of any species...there will always be a "scientific group of idiots" that will make the incorrect decision on how to manage the species in question. The vast majority of decisions made by the aforementioned scientific groups are most often influenced by greed/monetary gain.
Really? So what species did it fail?
Mother Nature, on the other hand has no use for "monetary gain", and therefore is the best method of natural management.
Thats deep man. Really deep. The rest of us however are probably wondering wtf your talking about.
You're correct, people have been eating Whales for quite some time, however, hunting Whales with Whaling ships, either present or past was strictly "for profit"...not for survival.
Compared to what? The Montana rancher with 10,000 head of cattle? The Arkansas poultry farmer with 10 sheds full of birds? How about the grocery store you shop at? Are they in it for survival?
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Yeah, I know. I was just wondering if anyone was desperate enough to correct me.
Wonder no more, your answer has arrived.
I dont care what kinda critter they are. Fact is humans have always hunted, killed, and et, whales. I hear whale is good eating and wish I had a haunch to naw on right now.
Yup.."hunter/gather's...really?? Hmmm..they "et" Whales?? Imagine that!!
I could live with the Greenpeace types if they didn't have their heads so far up their 6s. I think they are all products of Disney reality and anthropomorphizing animals. And their arrogance? They think they are above all law.
Jeeze Louise, how did Greenpeace and Disney get into the conversation?? You hittin the sauce again Dick?
really? So what species did it fail?
Look around..I'm sure you'll answer your own question
Thats deep man. Really deep. The rest of us however are probably wondering wtf your talking about.
I don't think "the rest of us" applies..I suspect your on your own, Son
Compared to what? The Montana rancher with 10,000 head of cattle? The Arkansas poultry farmer with 10 sheds full of birds? How about the grocery store you shop at? Are they in it for survival?
:huh :huh Uhh, letsee here..Cattle> Poultry>Grocery Store = Whales...sorry too much of a stretch.
Allow me to clear the air...I'm NOT a tree hugging/anti hunting liberal. I'm Just a "good `ol` country boy trying to make his way through this mixed-up world". IMHO, it's time to leave the Whales alone, let them replenish their ranks.
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They have replenished thier ranks, they are almost to where they were before whaling, and the international whaling laws only permit the killing of 500 whales a year (correct me if im wrong on that) thats not a huge hunting opperation nor killing a ton of whales for profit like sea shepard makes them out to be.
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You have much more killed every year, but bear in mind that the smallest whales are merely the size of a seal.
If I recall right, the limit for the USA was 20.500 whales. All small.
BTW, whales do have some impact on the ecosystem, - around my country, whales eat more fish than our entire fleet gets. Which is one reason behind the hunt, - we're fighting for the same dinner ;)
Whale tastes very good, roughly like beef with a salty whiff. Yummmm.
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Allow me to clear the air...I'm NOT a tree hugging/anti hunting liberal. I'm Just a "good `ol` country boy trying to make his way through this mixed-up world". IMHO, it's time to leave the Whales alone, let them replenish their ranks.
Thanks for clearing that up Denton. Because here I was thinking I was talking to an intellectual and general worldwide whale expert.
Did you know Baleen whales have no teeth Denton? My guess is they are your favorites.
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Thanks for clearing that up Denton. Because here I was thinking I was talking to an intellectual and general worldwide whale expert.
Did you know Baleen whales have no teeth Denton? My guess is they are your favorites.
And "my guess" is: you're educated beyond your degree of intelligence...now go outside and play, Dick.
dentin has left the building :cool:
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I saw it for the first time the other night and was so frustrated at their lack of professionalism and seamanship. I was in the Navy and it aggravated me to no end to watch those bumbling idiots make attempts to stop those whaling ships. If they could get a real C.O., develop a real chain of command and tactics....they may be on to something.
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They have all said that they would die for the whales. I wish they would hurry up and get on with that.
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A couple of links referencing current international whaling regulations and the website of Sea Shepherd. Both help to set some perspective to the pro and anti whaling debate, albeit that Sea Shepherd appears to be reckless and foolhardy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Whaling_Commission)
http://www.seashepherd.org/ (http://www.seashepherd.org/)
My regards,
Widewing
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Before i make any remarks about the topice. How many of you are biologist?
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Before i make any remarks about the topice. How many of you are biologist?
Why does that matter?
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They have all said that they would die for the whales. I wish they would hurry up and get on with that.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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The amusing thing will be when sea shepherd has an accident, what do you guys think the environmental impact will be on the antarctic if sea shepherd goes down or causes another vessel to go down spilling loads of diesel? How many endangered species will they kill?
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I said "Disagree..it's possible to not touch the environment..
I call BS here! That's like saying it's possible for a fish to not touch the water, lol!
Everything you do "touches" the environment. The only way to not effect it is to not be a part of it.
Just because we're the only species so far to be able to have an "opinion" of our impact on the environment doesn't mean we're not a part of it, or that our opinions on our impact are correct, or that our opinions matter one way or the other.
"nature" was on a roll long before "man" arrived, and will continue to be on a "roll"...
For which species is that not applicable? Is nature crippled due to the loss of the mammoth? Dinosaurs? Dodo bird? Passenger pigeon? Will it be crippled if a few species of whales go extinct? The polar bear? Man?
Extinction is "natural", and is caused by many factors- one of which is conflict with other species. Man has aided the extinction of many, so has "natural" weather change.
IMO, extinction caused by man's "misuse" of the environment is a bad thing. Does our opinion matter?
FYI, "straw-man" tactics won't work.
Call me what you want- you're argument lacks any vertabral support.
dentin has left the building :cool:
Don't leave on account of me...
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Hunting "using scientific methods" is not going to guarantee the survival of any species...there will always be a "scientific group of idiots" that will make the incorrect decision on how to manage the species in question. The vast majority of decisions made by the aforementioned scientific groups are most often influenced by greed/monetary gain.
The Fish and Game departments of the various states do a very good job of managing the wildlife populations. I don't know of a single species that has gone extinct or become endangered because of mismanagement by a Fish and Game department.
You're correct, people have been eating Whales for quite some time, however, hunting Whales with Whaling ships, either present or past was strictly "for profit"...not for survival.
Tell that to the native people in Alaska who have hunted whales for thousands of years for food and never made a single penny of profit off their kills. I'm sure there are other groups as well that have hunted whales for food, the people in Alaska are the just ones that came to mind first.
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I call BS here! That's like saying it's possible for a fish to not touch the water, lol!
Everything you do "touches" the environment. The only way to not effect it is to not be a part of it.
Just because we're the only species so far to be able to have an "opinion" of our impact on the environment doesn't mean we're not a part of it, or that our opinions on our impact are correct, or that our opinions matter one way or the other.
For which species is that not applicable? Is nature crippled due to the loss of the mammoth? Dinosaurs? Dodo bird? Passenger pigeon? Will it be crippled if a few species of whales go extinct? The polar bear? Man?
Extinction is "natural", and is caused by many factors- one of which is conflict with other species. Man has aided the extinction of many, so has "natural" weather change.
IMO, extinction caused by man's "misuse" of the environment is a bad thing. Does our opinion matter?
Call me what you want- you're argument lacks any vertabral support.
Don't leave on account of me...
Your statement Call me what you want
?? Where in bloody hell did that come from? :furious
OK, one more time. please read my quote below...
"FYI, "straw-man" tactics won't work. This conversation is off to a bad start, so rather than get into a wizzing contest, I'll just end it now."
edit:
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The Fish and Game departments of the various states do a very good job of managing the wildlife populations. I don't know of a single species that has gone extinct or become endangered because of mismanagement by a Fish and Game department.
Tell that to the native people in Alaska who have hunted whales for thousands of years for food and never made a single penny of profit off their kills. I'm sure there are other groups as well that have hunted whales for food, the people in Alaska are the just ones that came to mind first.
I wasn't aware of the fact that the "native people in Alaska" used Whaling Ships, ie, Ships that displace >200 tons.
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Your statement ?? Where in bloody hell did that come from? :furious
OK, one more time. please read my quote below...
"FYI, "straw-man" tactics won't work. This conversation is off to a bad start, so rather than get into a wizzing contest, I'll just end it now."
edit:
Sorry- I should have said "Call my tactics what you want".
Your position seems to be that an organism (man, or "humans" in this case) doesn't have to be a part of (or "touch") its ecosystem. I called BS to that, to which you claim I'm using "straw-man" tactics. Which part of your position am I misrepresenting?
The fact that the ecosystem works fine with/without a particular organism doesn't mean that that organism doesn't "touch" or "effect" the ecosystem.
The idea that many people have that we (humans) aren't, or don't have to be, or are "above", being active participants in the earth's ecosystem is ridiculous fallacy.
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I wasn't aware of the fact that the "native people in Alaska" used Whaling Ships, ie, Ships that displace >200 tons.
Are you saying that a native alsakain can not be a modern day sailor?
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Your statement ?? Where in bloody hell did that come from? FURIOUS!
OK, one more time. please read my quote below...
"FYI, "straw-man" tactics won't work. This conversation is off to a bad start, so rather than get into a wizzing contest, I'll just end it now."
edit:
Sorry- I should have said "Call my tactics what you want".
Your position seems to be that an organism (man, or "humans" in this case) doesn't have to be a part of (or "touch") its ecosystem. I called BS to that, to which you claim I'm using "straw-man" tactics. Which part of your position am I misrepresenting?
The fact that the ecosystem works fine with/without a particular organism doesn't mean that that organism doesn't "touch" or "effect" the ecosystem.
The idea that many people have that we (humans) aren't, or don't have to be, or are "above", being active participants in the earth's ecosystem is ridiculous fallacy.
Ok, allow me to sum up my philosophy on Wildlife..Let Nature take it's course! Take note on the fact that I have singled out WILDLIFE....NOT the whole Ecosystem! :furious
Now then, here is what I meant by straw-man...and you have done this in your previous reply's, intentional or Unintentional...guess in the long run, it doesn't really matter, fact is it happened.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position. While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.
I've already wasted way to much time on this topic....time to move on to other Windmills. :cool:
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Are you saying that a native alsakain can not be a modern day sailor?
Awww, geeze, where did I say that!? I said: "I wasn't aware of the fact that the "native people in Alaska" used Whaling Ships, ie, Ships that displace >200 tons."...Like in Commercial Fishing.
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Big grand statements aside, the average joe in this world is not to keen on Bunches of whales being harpooned to death and all that goes with it, I happen to share that point of view also, I'm willing to bet that the same folks on here saying it's ok to go around harpooning whales are probably the same ones who will pontificate for pages on global warming is a natural occurence and that it's not man made,
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Big grand statements aside, the average joe in this world is not to keen on Bunches of whales being harpooned to death and all that goes with it, I happen to share that point of view also, I'm willing to bet that the same folks on here saying it's ok to go around harpooning whales are probably the same ones who will pontificate for pages on global warming is a natural occurence and that it's not man made,
I guess I should have added this in my statement earlier....I wish they would go about it in a better way because I would really like to seen them be successful. There is no reason to hunt endangered species. It's not like Minke whale blubber cures cancer.
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Being possibly the only one on this BBS that is actually a biologist, I would like to state my side.
This show, is a very sorry attempt at nobility. Paul Watson (the Captain) is a whack job (in more than one circle), and the crew is as inept as any there has ever been. The only natural ending for this endeavor will be the loss of one or more of the crew in some inanely stupid accident, which will no doubt be left at the foot of the Japanese. (Which is also, I surmise, what Watson is truly and ultimately attempting to do) The "Sea Shepards" do their own cause a disservice simply by their existence, and their tactics. I am completely unsympathetic to these morons. This show is legitimately harming the very ideology they are out to spread. When people ask me what I think of them, I simple term them as "irrational and clueless".
I swear that the helicopter pilot thinks he's Maverick, walking around the ship with a patched out flight suit.(He wasn't a pilot, but an avionics technician in the USMC) I suppose that might work on some clueless eco-tail on that ship, who knows. I've watched the show in disbelief at the lack of seamanship dispalyed by nearly every member of the crew, and the zealot nature displayed by nearly every member of the command staff. The only peron that appears to have a rational side among them is the doctor.
That being said...
The Japanese are skirting the ban on commercial whaling, by claiming more than their "share" (as designated by the IWC moratorium) of whales for "scientific" purposes. They are killing these animals that are protected, and illegally profitting from the loophole in the maritime law that states the "entire animal must be used or consumed" after killing. It's honestly one of the largest jokes in marine biology, what the Japanese term "cetacean research". And don't be mistaken, they wouldn't send a fleet if it wasn't profitable.
Whether or not whaling should be legal is not up for discussion anymore. The IWC moratorium has been in place for many years. If, for example, a group went around killing bald eagles, (under the guise of research) then selling and making a profit from them, people would be absolutely horrified.
I honestly hope whoever is funding them (the Sea Sheppards) runs out of money. Neither continuation of their sorties into the Antarctic, nor the sinking of their ship and death of any or all of their crew, is good for anyone. I really just wish they would go away.... they aren't helping.
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what kind of biologist are you?
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Ok, allow me to sum up my philosophy on Wildlife..Let Nature take it's course! Take note on the fact that I have singled out WILDLIFE....NOT the whole Ecosystem! :furious
Now then, here is what I meant by straw-man...and you have done this in your previous reply's, intentional or Unintentional...guess in the long run, it doesn't really matter, fact is it happened.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position. While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.
I've already wasted way to much time on this topic....time to move on to other Windmills. :cool:
I understand what a straw man argument is. Essentially, your assertion that I'm using straw man tactics is a straw man tactic itself.
Quite simply, you said-
"Hunting "using scientific methods" is not going to guarantee the survival of any species...there will always be a "scientific group of idiots" that will make the incorrect decision on how to manage the species in question. The vast majority of decisions made by the aforementioned scientific groups are most often influenced by greed/monetary gain.
Mother Nature, on the other hand has no use for "monetary gain", and therefore is the best method of natural management."
Which looks to me like you're saying scientists have no clue, are mainly out for money, and are less effective than an imaginary entity (Mother Nature) at managing resources. Did you mean something other than that?
I'll admit I thought you were using "Mother Nature" as a way of referring to the Ecosystem. Although now you seem to be claiming to only be talking about wildlife?
Why do you keep tossing out vague, accusatory "straw-man", rude "now go outside and play, Dick", inaccurate "it's possible to not touch the environment" statements, and then attempt to close the door for anyone to have a discussion- "dentin (from Planet Earth) has left the building" "dentin has left the building" "I've already wasted way to much time on this topic....time to move on to other Windmills."???
If you feel threatened by someone disagreeing with your statements, why post them?
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I wasn't aware of the fact that the "native people in Alaska" used Whaling Ships, ie, Ships that displace >200 tons.
Your statement was that whaling, is and always has been a venture for profit. Just because the Alaskan natives didn't and still don't use ships that displace 200 tons does not negate the fact that they have been whaling for subsistence for thousands of years.
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I understand what a straw man argument is. Essentially, your assertion that I'm using straw man tactics is a straw man tactic itself.
Quite simply, you said-
"Hunting "using scientific methods" is not going to guarantee the survival of any species...there will always be a "scientific group of idiots" that will make the incorrect decision on how to manage the species in question. The vast majority of decisions made by the aforementioned scientific groups are most often influenced by greed/monetary gain.
Mother Nature, on the other hand has no use for "monetary gain", and therefore is the best method of natural management."
Which looks to me like you're saying scientists have no clue, are mainly out for money, and are less effective than an imaginary entity (Mother Nature) at managing resources. Did you mean something other than that?
Nope...thats EXACTLY what I meant..see the problem lies with you not keying on the words "scientific group of idiots"and "decisions made by the aforementioned scientific groups are most often influenced by greed/monetary gain."/i] Where did I say ALL SCIENTIFIC GROUPS...huh!? :furious
I'll admit I thought you were using "Mother Nature" as a way of referring to the Ecosystem. Although now you seem to be claiming to only be talking about wildlife?
Guess your "thoughts" were incorrect
Why do you keep tossing out vague, accusatory "straw-man",
Exactly what you were doing AND continue to do.[/quote]
rude "now go outside and play, Dick",
Innuendos tossed from rich46's yap...."Turnabout is fair play"...read the thread.
inaccurate "it's possible to not touch the environment" statements,
Perhaps I should have explained further..really didn't think you'd have a difficult time grasping the meaning..my mistake.
and then attempt to close the door for anyone to have a discussion- "dentin (from Planet Earth) has left the building" "dentin has left the building" "I've already wasted way to much time on this topic....time to move on to other Windmills."???
I should have dropped this WOT at the start..remember when I said "FYI, "straw-man" tactics won't work. This conversation is off to a bad start, so rather than get into a wizzing contest, I'll just end it now". I certainly made a mistake, by continuing this thread. Oh, and you DID ask "what planet are you from"?.
If you feel threatened by someone disagreeing with your statements, why post them?
Now that's funny.."threatened"..surely you jest.
As I said above...re: wizzing contest. This is no longer about "Whaling" it's become a contest. So, before I change from my gentleman demeanor into my nasty demeanor and get booted from this BBS...I'll leave ya with this: Keep the Straw-man away from flames...you'll be lost without it. :P
:cool: Dentin (from planet earth) has wasted enough time in pixel land and has left the building. :cool:
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Paul Watson finally got his own show, geez, he must be loving that. Pfft. Freakin drama queen.
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Why dont you guys go back and read everyone of Dentins posts. OK? Now there are two points that really stand out and one begs to be answered right?
The first is why are you guys trying to have an elevated conversation about whaling with him?
The second point, as it relates to the first, is why I left the thread.
Think about it? Think about everyone you've known thats been named "Dentin"? To be named "Dentin" you have to be a permanenet 14yo, with a faceful of zits, and mommy is always screaming for you to take out the trash.
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My girlfriend and I have been watching this show, first out of curiosity, now I don't know why I watch. I know nothing of Maritime law, nor anything about biology, or whaling. I assume I am a prime example of the demographic this show is targeting. This is my .02, and I considered myself a clean slate to begin with.
In my opinion they have made themselves look worse than the Whalers. They have absolutely no credibility. Their attempt to stage a kidnapping of their own people was a joke, the Japanese tried to let me them go, but they didn't want to leave the ship! There is only one way to release someone who is on a ship. It looks like in the next episode they are going to try a night boarding of a ship and sabotage their communication equipment. Is that even legal? Are they not putting the lives of the japanese sailors on that ship at risk by messing with their communication equipment? What's to keep them from destroying vital navigation equipment as well?
Captain Ding Dong is a manipulative sweetheart bag who must have a ship full of star struck lemmings. Rational responsible people would revolt against his ludicrous actions before the ship left port. I'm sure Steve Irwin must be rolling in his grave seeing his name on that vessel. I find myself rooting for the Whalers and hoping the Sea Shepherds fail miserably.
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I am quit suprise to see how many of you rutting for the japs. Although, them fruit cakes on the sea sheport are morons. I wouldn't past them if they have a room full of marijuana and sex orgies once a week.
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-Pukes-
:rock
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I am quit suprise to see how many of you rutting for the japs. Although, them fruit cakes on the sea sheport are morons. I wouldn't past them if they have a room full of marijuana and sex orgies once a week.
Hmmmmmm. i might need to rethink my life....
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Hurrah, orgies with unshaven overweight unwashed borderline lesbians! Hurrah!
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Hurrah, orgies with unshaven overweight unwashed borderline lesbians! Hurrah!
Hmmmm.. might need to rethink my rethinking of my life....
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:rofl
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Why dont you guys go back and read everyone of Dentins posts. OK? Now there are two points that really stand out and one begs to be answered right?
The first is why are you guys trying to have an elevated conversation about whaling with him?
The second point, as it relates to the first, is why I left the thread.
Think about it? Think about everyone you've known thats been named "Dentin"? To be named "Dentin" you have to be a permanenet 14yo, with a faceful of zits, and mommy is always screaming for you to take out the trash.
Sorry Rich, I guess I gave him too much credit. I though he wanted to converse intelligently. Oh well.
I am quit suprise to see how many of you rutting for the japs. Although, them fruit cakes on the sea sheport are morons. I wouldn't past them if they have a room full of marijuana and sex orgies once a week.
I don't think anyone is standing up for the whalers. Moray made some great points, and vigilanties aren't the way to stop the problem. When taking sides in this case it's limited to choosing between the better of two evils, and generally, attacking people is considered worse than attacking animals.
Drawing more attention to the illegal whaling activities in order to stop them is admirable, but there are better ways than the Sea Shepherd's crew are using. It's interesting that National Geographic has decided to give these guys fame. These types of extreme tactics have been used by anti's for a long time, attempting to support a lot of "causes". Abortion, hunting, trapping, fishing, wearing of fur, you name it. Generally though, we see these people as extremists on the news, not as TV stars. This show is giving other nut-cases ideas.
I wonder if someone could get a show on TV if they formed a band of vigilanties and went through the streets fighting crime. Anyone wanna go rid the seas of pirates? I bet we could get on TV if we did that! Anyone have a boat? Maybe something less-lofty as a starting point? We could maybe rid the highways of SUV's using some night raids?
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Hmmmm.. might need to rethink my rethinking of my life....
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
And Im not rutting for the japs, Im just rutting against the sea shepards.
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MtMan, Don’t be surprise that these TV executives would do something like having a show on vigilanties fighting street crime. Oh wait, "COPS" cover that part. Maybe we should get spits and ponies in the air and fight street crime by air. lol
Over all, the sea sheports are trying to do something in a way that is not normal, if you would say. They try to do this in 1940, i am sure the Japs would blow them out of the water.
Yes, i am against the japs for whaling more than they should be. i also understand that japs have been whaling for century too. But the fact that they TRY to tell us that whales they are killing is for research is kind of hard to believe. I am a biologist and i know it doesn’t take over a 1000 whale a year to study age, migration, behavior and what others studies they are looking at. In fact, just killing them is no way to doing research on an animal. Especially if they are endanger species.
And I don’t support environmentalist groups like PETA or other crap groups.
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Are you saying that a native alsakain can not be a modern day sailor?
The Native Americans in Alaska for the most part stick with traditional hunting methods when they go after whales.
ack-ack
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It's interesting that National Geographic has decided to give these guys fame. These types of extreme tactics have been used by anti's for a long
In all fairness, Nat'l Geographic wants nothing to do with them. The Discovery Network is backboning the "documentary", but not funding the actual running of the ship. I do wonder how long that might last should the ratings start elevating, though.
Also, Oakranger, to answer your question from a page or two prior, I'm a marine biologist. I'm currently on the east coast of Florida working with toxins/parasite vectors in Tursiops truncatus (Bottlenose Dolphin) found in the resident population of the Indian River Lagoon.
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Also, Oakranger, to answer your question from a page or two prior, I'm a marine biologist. I'm currently on the east coast of Florida working with toxins/parasite vectors in Tursiops truncatus (Bottlenose Dolphin) found in the resident population of the Indian River Lagoon.
Hey, that sounds intresting. How long have you been working on that? Hope you don't mind me asking, what is your hypothesis?
I am in Kansas, have my own consulting business for land management. Here is my web site, www.workforgrass.com. My specialty is range ecology or plant specialist.
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Hey, that sounds intresting. How long have you been working on that? Hope you don't mind me asking, what is your hypothesis?
I am in Kansas, have my own consulting business for land management. Here is my web site, www.workforgrass.com. My specialty is range ecology or plant specialist.
Well considering the various pathogens that have been showing up as of late, the short list is mismanagement of the land surrounding the Indian River Lagoon(Inordinately high phosphates and other organics from agriculture), compounded by mismanagement by the South FL water management district.(reduction of flow for human and agricultural use) These, coupled with a population of large mammals that are internally quite similar to humans, that don't move around all that much, (IRL dolphins have a very defined and small range, and very infrequently pass through the inlets here and range out to sea) gives a very bad cocktail mix to the health of the system. If you would like some more information, feel free to PM me. Linking papers I've published to this BBS may prove to be a bad idea, with the anti-science front so "developed" on this particular board site.
The link is a synopsis of some of the work I've been involved with, though. Lobomycosis was an extremely significant find in a wild population of dolphins. With a little further research, you may see why. Also, think about any where else you've heard of pappilomavirus. It may give you pause to consider for a minute or two, when you make the connections.
http://www.hboi.edu/downloads/pdf/Bossart_2007.pdf (http://www.hboi.edu/downloads/pdf/Bossart_2007.pdf)
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Hey Moray how many certs do you hold for scuba? Diving the Florida coast is pretty good although I would prefer Micronesia, Solomons and that area.
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In all fairness, Nat'l Geographic wants nothing to do with them. The Discovery Network is backboning the "documentary", but not funding the actual running of the ship. I do wonder how long that might last should the ratings start elevating, though.
Also, Oakranger, to answer your question from a page or two prior, I'm a marine biologist. I'm currently on the east coast of Florida working with toxins/parasite vectors in Tursiops truncatus (Bottlenose Dolphin) found in the resident population of the Indian River Lagoon.
Thanks for clearing that up Moray. It was hard to tell from the clips I saw, and I didn't delve deeper.
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Last week, Greenpeace Australia spokesperson Steve Shallhorn announced that Greenpeace would be sending a ship to Antarctic waters. The same day Japan announced that they would be sending a Japanese Coast Guard gunboat to defend the whaling fleet. It appears that the Japanese government has successfully frightened Greenpeace away this year.
"They can send the entire Japanese Navy down to the Southern Ocean if they like, but Sea Shepherd and the crew of the Steve Irwin will not be intimidated by this kind of brutal military thuggery. When we say we put our lives on the line to defend the whales, we mean it. It's not just a slogan for us," said Captain Watson. "I have not seen a whale die since I left Greenpeace in 1977 and I have no intention of seeing a whale die this year. They don't kill whales when we show up and they won't kill whales when we arrive again this year. They will have to sink us first."
I was reading the Sea Shepard web page on Whaling in the Antartic, and this is what I found. What a bunch of nuts.
Did anyone else notice in the first episode in the opening scene that they said someone was shot! :devil
I believe they said it was the captain. I dont know if it was to get you intrested and it happens in a later episode or it was from a previous year.
But every one of them are crazy! :huh
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What kind for crops and irrigation crops are there in the area? Do they have a established riparian system? What other factors reducing water flow?
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Hey Moray how many certs do you hold for scuba? Diving the Florida coast is pretty good although I would prefer Micronesia, Solomons and that area.
Open Water, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, DM and a governmental cert for Commercial and Scientific diving (required by my employer)
Florida diving has gone down markedly in the past decade. Water has too many organics, therefore heavy macroalgal blooms in close. Middle and upper Keys have a few spots that aren't spoiled yet.
Belize is by far the best diving in this hemisphere.
Micronesia would always be preferable, no doubt. Guam was quite impressive. It is sad that the Crown of Thorns starfish is having its' way with the corals around the Piti Bomb Holes. Sooner or later, they will start spreading out and destroying the rest of the reef.
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What kind for crops and irrigation crops are there in the area? Do they have a established riparian system? What other factors reducing water flow?
The problem is not the system, rather the demands upon the system. There have been attempts at establishing a system of runoff events, although, there really was never a natural system of flood events in the watershed to start with. Most of the bottom ecology was therefore shallow rooted and silty. The ony major flood events that occur in this area are landfalling hurrricanes, which average a hit once a decade (mean of every 7.4 years). The natural hydrology demands this slow release on the system followed by large purges....large releases of water will tend to favor organisms that are resistant to such force.... most of those being non-endemic to the area.
Add to that the high percentage of both sugar plantations and large tracts of central Florida dedicated to raising cattle, and you add a large amount of organic waste, and nitogenous base fertilizers, with phosphates added in. The St. Lucie River has times when it flows lime green from all the algal blooms, and is subsequently closed to fishing and other recreation.
(http://crca.caloosahatchee.org/img/algaebloom_big_080617.jpg)
It really is a matter of the overwhelming concentrations of both human and organic waste, ending up in a shielded lagoon with very little water swapping occuring between it and the ocean beyond.
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Interesting point of view from our media about the situation, seems like the general public is slowly tiring of the greenies antics:
Anti-whalers are tone deaf
THE LONG VIEW - RICHARD LONG
The Dominion Post | Tuesday, 02 December 2008
At the risk of being harpooned by the anti-whalers, could I ever so tentatively suggest that we ponder a change of approach from the dangerous full-on confrontations, ship collisions and drama in the dangerous Southern Ocean.
Without a doubt, continued Japanese whaling is a huge impediment to relations with Japan, our third-largest trading partner. But if there is one thing that will rally Japanese patriotism, it is foreigners pushing the country around in public. That makes it impossible for Japanese politicians to budge, especially as the Western furore over whaling is incomprehensible in Japanese terms.
I recall a Japanese ambassador's daughter snookering me, many years ago, in a discussion on the subject.
Newly arrived in Wellington from Tokyo, the intelligent, articulate university student was genuinely puzzled about our obsession.
She was incredulous that New Zealanders could shoot and eat Bambi. And also those little white lambs that looked so pretty frolicking around in our fields. She could not bring herself to do this and could not comprehend the contradiction in our stance, though, like most Japanese, she would not eat whale meat either.
This came to mind when newly appointed Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully warned last week that taxpayers could not be expected to fund rescue operations when protestors came to grief challenging Japanese whalers in the Southern Ocean.
The bravery, skill and idealism of the anti-whaling protestors is without doubt. The trouble is, these high-profile ritual protests seem to be contributing to the problem as well as endangering the participants. Far from hastening the end of whaling, they may actually be helping to prolong it.
The dramatic protests, while great for Greenpeace's image and fundraising, reinforce Japanese intransigence and make it more difficult for rational Japanese diplomats and bureaucrats to win the debate in the hugely powerful bureaucracies in Tokyo, and then in the Japanese parliament.
This was made clear in a revealing interview on these pages last week with Tomohiko Taniguchi, the official spokesman for the Japanese Foreign Affairs Ministry for the past three years.
No longer a government official, he candidly admitted he loathed having to defend whaling because it was damaging to Japanese interests and irrelevant to the economy.
Whaling accounted for only .0014 per cent of the economy and employed only a few thousand in a country of 130 million.
"The stake for Japan is near zero."
About 80 Japanese politicians supported whaling, but it was a core issue for only six to eight, Mr Taniguchi pointed out.
His view was that a lowering of the level of protest could help the persuasion progress within Japan, rather than entrenching political support.
Alowered tone in debate with Japan has never been a predominant Kiwi characteristic. Former Labour deputy prime minister Bob Tizard once created worldwide shock waves for observing, after the death of the Japanese emperor, that he should have been chopped into pieces after the war.
That was a sentiment no doubt privately cheered by Western servicemen, but the diplomatic flurry it created was off the Richter scale.
Former prime minister Rob Muldoon once proclaimed, in a trade dispute, that he planned to drag the Japanese kicking and screaming into the 20th century.
He publicly demanded a "squid pro quo" trade deal with Japanese agriculture minister Ichiro Nakagawa. Japanese intransigence saw it never got off the ground. Mr Muldoon, in effect, got Nakagawed.
Anti-whalers are more inclined to the Bob Tizard full- frontal approach, in spite of the useful signals from Mr Taniguchi, and the Sea Shepherd protest ship will continue confrontations this year. But Greenpeace, interestingly, has opted instead for a public relations campaign in an endeavour to sway Japanese public opinion.
Of course, no one is taking the long view, to the period following a whaling ban. Ultimately there will need to be culling of non- baleen whales, which eat tonnes of fish, in much the same way as some African countries cull elephant herds to match the environment.
Either that or, as these species proliferate, we may see certain fish stocks depleted to such an extent that they are priced off our tables.
And then there are those protected and proliferating seal colonies around our coasts, consuming vast amounts of fish.
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CRAP. So at this point, there really is no method of reversing the pollution other than stop agricultural in the area.
Well Moray37, you know as much as i know that wildlife will get low priority where agricultural and development get higher priority.
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I have Watched the 4 episodes so far and they said that they rammed a japanese fuel tanker to make it leave 3 years or so back.
WTF
if they had spilled oil from that tanker they would have killed all the whales within 5 miles!
THEY JUST DON'T THINK
I hope that the Japanese eventully capture them (mostly the captain) and imprison them in jail until they realize that they were probably the cause for more whales getting killed
-NEARY
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In honor of your Whale Wars thread I tried loading my eskimo-hunting-whale avatar (thank you Xargos! I love the avatar!), but it was too big.
I guess it's the thought that counts though, right? ;)
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Here is a clip from when the captain supposedly gets "shot".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u138Ez4Tio&feature=related
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Here is a clip from when the captain supposedly gets "shot".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u138Ez4Tio&feature=related
Right at the heart. he is lucky
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It looks like in the next episode they are going to try a night boarding of a ship and sabotage their communication equipment.
This sounds like an act of terrorism against the whaling ship. Treat them hippie nutjobs as terrorists if they board the ship and say thery were killed while trying to cripple a ship out at sea.
Better let, keep the gunboat nearby and let the nutjobs know that if they "breach" the perimiter, they will be considered hostile and will be fired upon. After their little toy boat is sunk, they will think twice next time if there are any survivors left. Perhaps they just "happen" to dissapear oneday
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I wouldnt put it past em to fake that whole deal. Wouldnt be hard to pop one of those vests before you put to sea. It defintly looked like a impacted bullet tho. The part that gives me pause is he wasnt even sore or bruised. With soft armor like that you KNOW you have been hit. Even hard armor (ie plate) will give you a good thwack. Those looked like flash bangs being thrown. I doubt it was from one of those but I really couldnt be sure.
Race
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A few machine guns would save the whalers.
So far the score is:
1) Dont eat whales
2) Dont eat fresh water fish
3) Dont eat any land animals
4) Use corn for fuel
5) Fast Food is evil and will kill you
6) Duck Hunting is evil (Dick Cheney-ism)
7) Agriculture is a pollution hot-bed
8) Cows are evil CO2 emitters (belchers) but you cant eat them either
Sounds like what they really are is human haters that rather then screaming 'I hate humans they must die' protest all forms of sustaining human life to meet their goals (less humans). Genius! Woefully inadequate morons also.
The whaling captain should experiment with new chum including a few camera crews.
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My favoritve part of all the ramming garbage is that they will never do any damage, thier ship is only like 1/7 the size of the japaneese vessel. What are the japenese supposed to say? "oh noes, a dent! lets go home...". I was always taught in my rules of the road the law of gross tonage, though you might have right of way over a bigger ship, the bigger ship will win in the end. I also thinking about it now realize that sea shepard is responsible for all those collisions because they are the overtaking vessel, which is funny because the captain is always like "well they cut into us and we couldnt avoid them". I wish these guys would hurry up and piss somebody off enough that a military goes in and sinks them.
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I got a whale killing email this morning. Here:
"Stop whaling in Iceland! ´Global` boycott against products, ´made in Iceland`
Dear ladies and gentleman,
I am hereby informing you of my intention to join the European-wide boycott against Iceland because of its policy of non-stop whaling.
Our appeal to the Icelandic government is simple; stop the scientific whaling in Iceland immediately.
Until Iceland stops the whaling I will not buy any products from Iceland, I will not take any vacation in Iceland or visit the country for any reason, as long as Iceland continues this whaling. I will inform all international tour operators, hotels and anyone who are partners of tourism in Iceland, that we are making this boycott.
Until Iceland stops the whaling, I’ll place no more money with an Icelandic bank.
I will also boycott any company who are in business with Icelandic companies, I will not purchase any of their produces. Even if they are European companies, who work together with Iceland, I will also inform them of this boycott.
I will also lobby the E.U commission that Iceland should not become a member until they stop the whaling.
I’ll continue with all these boycotts until Iceland stop the slaughter.
I’ll inform all my friends and the media about these boycotts against Iceland and I am sure, they will follow me.
We would, however, like to encourage Iceland to use the whales to introduce whale watching in its own country, this is already a booming business internationally.
Therefore, we would like to ask you, to promote the immediate termination of the scientific whaling programme of your
government, so that you won’t have to suffer heavy financial losses yourselves.
Thank you for your understanding.
Greetings"
My reply:
"Hello there.
Our nation does some whaling, minke whaling to be precize, some 30 animals annually out of the rough 800.000 in the seas.
The minke whales inside our waters are estimated to gobble up more fish than our entire fishing fleet.
We are one of the smalles whaling nations in the world.
We also probably have the worst banking system in the world right now.
So, boycott our banks, I will still happily eat my whale roast without blushing, while chuckling over foolish boycott propoganda like this.
BOYCOTT SPAMMERS!"
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Sorry to bump such an old thread, but it looks like the idiots just sealed their own fate.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=06d_1233928779
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:lol
wow, those guys are idiots.
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Them japs will get to the point of using deadly weapons the them hippies keep it up.
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Them japs will get to the point of using deadly weapons the them hippies keep it up.
Half those hippies look like whales, they can say they got confused. ;)
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tonight I will be offered pickled whale-fat for dinner.
I will skip that one, but the beef of a whale is however delicious....
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Half those hippies look like whales, they can say they got confused. ;)
:rofl
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:lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl
One crew member on the Steve Irwin required five stitches after being hurt while disorientated by Japanese long-range acoustic devices, according to the Sea Shepherd. The activists accused the whalers of using high-pressure water cannons and acoustic weapons against them.
hahahaha thats just embaressing, someone got dizzy, bonked there head, and got a boo boo, and then they whine and cry, if i walked past some speakers, got disorented and cut open my head i would keep my mouth shut.
And this isnt the first time, these tards ram whale ships all the time, they have run over and sunk a handful of longliners of South America, killed a handfull of fisherman in the process, yet they are still out there.
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I'm all for saving the whales but these sweetheart bags are REALLY making it look BAD. There was one scene where the captain got hit by shrapnel from a flash bang and was claiming he had been shot. The piece didn't even break the skin.
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public opinion in NZ is starting to turn against them. The collisions represent a massive danger to the environment, what happens when a hull is split and oil gets into the sealife around the antarctic? And while the japanese use water cannons, ie harmless water, sea shepherd is throwing polluting waste and garbage at the japanese (ie polluting the antarctic).
I wish someone would put a torpedo in sea sherpherd (once she was out of antarctic waters).
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I'm all for saving the whales but these sweetheart bags are REALLY making it look BAD. There was one scene where the captain got hit by shrapnel from a flash bang and was claiming he had been shot. The piece didn't even break the skin.
It was all a setup. I haven't watched it in a while but from what I remember the captain and another guy where at the back of the boat while all the other crewmembers are at the front tossing stuff at the Japanese. Then all of the sodden people are yelling that he's been shot and they pull a bullet out of the vest. There was no marks and no sign of bruising on the captain. Which makes me think he and his second in command butt buddy went out and shot the vest before going out to sea.
All the crewmembers are a bunch of sheep being lead by a lieing attention potato. If he really wants to help he would be in the front with all the others trowing stuff and boarding the ships, but instead he sits back because he knows if the Japanese gets their hands on him he wont be coming back home. Any of them that board those ships or try to do damage to them should be arrested and hung for piracy.
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I have found myself rooting for the Japanese fleet. Screw captain Santa Claus and the Sea Hippies.
I've never tried whale meat, but I'd like to now. I wouldnt "get to know" a chick on the sea sheaperd though. They prolly dont shower to conserve water. :rolleyes: I don't want to get crabs.
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Necro bump FTW. Yeah I root for the whalers looks like a awesome job hunt whales throw stuff at hippes spray them with water cannons. :rock
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Necro bump FTW. Yeah I root for the whalers looks like a awesome job hunt whales throw stuff at hippes spray them with water cannons. :rock
At least I didnt start a new thread. :aok :devil :devil :devil :devil (post #) :devil :devil :devil
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Well it's a long bump and all, Dmbear, but I'm glad you did it. I just found this show a few weeks ago and can't watch it without my jaw dropping and my eyebrows raising. Politics, whaling, and/or any fuzzy feelings aside, those guys on the Steve Irwin are just... Well, I'm not sure I can come up with a word suitable to describe their ineptitude. They have to be the absolute worst sailor/para-pirate group on the high seas.
They are going to get themselves killed.
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It's a justified bump because the current season is showing the Japanese owning those whales like a hippie owns BO. The Japanese are hauling up whales in front of them. Sorry, maybe they'll spin it different, but I doubt that the processing boat that the Irwin follows is the only one down there.
It's a hunch, but I think the Japanese have several processing vessels.
But that wouldn't make for a good show...and it might even stop donations to the cause.
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They are going to get themselves killed.
:pray
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I laugh every episode. Last episode I was yelling at the freaking guy manning the harpoon to pull the trigger. They whine at everything though which is annoying. They are also the biggest hypocrites.
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It annoys me how often the phrase "I am ready to die for this" is followed by, "Well, I'm not doing THAT..." It also annoys me how the people who most often say the first thing are the ones in the least harm's way. That skinny Dutch fellow seems to say it the most, and he's on the bridge... Get in the small boats if you feel that way...
I understand they are all volunteers, but often they act like they're volunteering for a tag sale or some such... It is in their very best interests to have a crack down on discipline and come up with some sort of clear chain of command. They're in far too dangerous of an environment to be a democracy...
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:lol The Japs seem to be doing good this year despite the bad economy
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Haha thanks for the bump. I was looking for this thread after the last episode. I also think they will likely get themselves killed, and a talented camera crew will be lost :cry .
What amazes me is that the Japanese are for the most part using non-violent defense mechanisms against them, and doing it well. Yeah throwing bolts and golf balls at them wasn't exactly non-violent, but everything else they've done is. And eventually the Japanese have now figured out that they can just go ahead and fish right in front of them, as if they aren't even there. The Sea Sheppards got owned, hard, this past episode. They just figured out that they are totally ineffective at stopping whaling. Too bad for them.
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Sadly, I root for the whalers now too.
I Just started watching this season and I hadn't even seen the rammings yet when all of a sudden they're trying(keyword: trying) to destroy the japanese ship's prop. They're pirates as far as I'm concerned.
And I'm no chopper pilot but that guy flies way too low. With those floats on the bottom he might even survive an autorotation on the open sea, but he sure as hell isn't gonna pull it off at 50 feet. And I know there's some law about buzzing ships.
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Unless we're no longer going to let our Eskimos shoot whales with machine guns for their traditional hunt, they don't have a leg to stand on.
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icrwhales.org has all stuff from the Jap side.
http://www.icrwhale.org/eng/090206SS.wmv
:rofl
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Unless we're no longer going to let our Eskimos shoot whales with machine guns for their traditional hunt, they don't have a leg to stand on.
I just watched a show on this the other night, i think that the Eskimos are required to use "traditional" hunting methods to take the whales. Although with that said, they do use explosive tipped harpoons. Not sure how "traditional" that is.
<S>
Mbailey
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"You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war" Napoleon Bonaparte
I am sorry but I have watched both seasons. Last season and this season you can tell the Japs studied up on Paul Watson and the Steven Irwin plans of attacks. If you noticed everything they crew of the Steve Irwin did the Japs had a counter to... They had netting up for the Buteric Acid (which is toxic) they had higher pressure water cannons for the keeping the smaller boats at bay. They had the LRAD for the physcological aspect and making the Steve Irwin crew scared and have that in the back of there head. They had something on the bottom of there harpoon boats so when the prop fowlers went out they did not catch the props.
Paul Watson went to the well way to many times. It was a matter of time when his plan wouldnt work. Any military person here can tell you the same thing, and I never been in the military. I believe the Japs played Paul Watson like a fine tune fiddle. They knew his main goal was that processing ship and laid a trap. They lead the Steve Irwin to there fishing grounds only so Steve Irwins crew can watch them Harpoon those whales right infront of them. Sorry I thought it was a great plan on the Japs part. Just my opion.
Now I read that Sea Shepards recieved 3 ships for next season
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2009/06/whale-war-saga-between-japanese-hunters-and-sea-shepherd-to-escalate-.html
The Earthrace is a fast boat but was made for speed not for Ice or dangerous stuff that Paul Watson does.
I hear the Third boat is for the camera crews. They felt there life was at constent harms way the whole time and that the third boat will be there for there safety.
Yes I am rooting for the Japs in this battle! :rock
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Ok, im not an eco nut at all, but i think its wrong what there doing..... have you seen what they do? They chase the whales for miles, and shoot them with a 6 foot harpoon, then they drag them along side of boat, if the whale isnt dead yet, they start shooting it with rifles...I am against animal abuse to.... but im just saying, leave the dang whales alone
-BigBOBCH
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Back from the dead, this thread!
The problem is, both sides are right, and both are wrong.
The Japanese are making whaling an industry. It's obvious. There is not a shred of science being done on that ship. One single whale would take days to scientifically examine properly, and they're doing it in about 2 hours from haul out??? I call BS there. There just isn't any kind of time to process the specimen adequately. One single Tursiops truncatus (Bottlenose Dolphin) necropsy takes longer, and it's only 1/50th the size of a Minke.
As such:
The quality of science involved in the JARPN study is astonishingly poor. At the 2001 meeting of the IWC Scientific Committee, 32 scientists representing many different countries submitted a document expressing their belief that the Japanese program lacked scientific rigour and would not meet minimum standards of academic review that are widely in use in science world-wide (Clapham et al. 2002, 2003).
It angers me that the Japs are hiding behind science, while not actually doing any real science.
But, as I said before the Sea Sheppards are complete idiots, to the degree of functional retardation. There are correct ways to document and catch these guys, without risking lives. I have said all along, this show will end with deaths.
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I was going to post something to that effect Moray but your opinion pretty much sums it up.
Both sides should be ashamed in their own ways....
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I have said all along, this show will end with deaths.
After posting my last thread I have been reading up on some other threads posted on animal planet. Moray I understand your a Marian Biologist (i think you said in another post) and understand completely what you are saying.
You are also right about people dying
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Ishikawa, H. and Shigemune, H. 2008. Comparative Experiment of Whaling Grenades in the Japanese Whale Research Program under Special Permit (JARPA and JARPN). Jpn. J. Zoo Wildl. Med. 13(1): 21-28.
Konishi, K., Tamura, T., Zenitani, R., Bando, T., Kato, H. and Wallﾃｸe, L. 2008. Decline in energy storage in the Antarctic minke whale (Balaenoptera bonaerensis) in the Southern Ocean. Polar Biol: 31: 1509-1520.
Yunoki, K., Ishikawa, H., Fukui, Y. and Ohnishi, M. 2008. Chemical Properties of Epidermal Lipids, Especially Sphingolipids, of the Antarctic Minke Whale. Lipids (2008) 43: 151-159.
You be the judge. 950 whales were culled in 2008. This was the amount of science garnered from that entire season (taken DIRECTLY FROM THE JARPA site, http://www.icrwhale.org/JARPA91paper.htm (http://www.icrwhale.org/JARPA91paper.htm), one of which was a study of "whaling grenade effectiveness".
While the Sea Sheppard's are idiots, it's obvious that the Japs are playing the loophole.
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I agree the Japanese are hiding behind "research".
Why don't the Japanese just leave the IWC and start another organisation that isn't overrun with an anti whaling tone. Who enforces the IWC anyways? :rolleyes:
I doubt they want to exterminate the species. How would that benefit them?
BTW, anyone tried whale? I'm getting hungry.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/WhaleWars.jpg)
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Ok, im not an eco nut at all, but i think its wrong what there doing..... have you seen what they do? They chase the whales for miles, and shoot them with a 6 foot harpoon, then they drag them along side of boat, if the whale isnt dead yet, they start shooting it with rifles...I am against animal abuse to.... but im just saying, leave the dang whales alone
-BigBOBCH
Have you seen what goes on in a chicken processing plant? Butchering animals isn't a pretty business. Lobsters and crabs are boiled alive, yeah that's humane...
I eat beef and pork, and both come from mammals. I also hunt Deer once in a while; also a mammal. Why should I be against the Japanese hunting these sea-cows?
Didn't the scandinavians sink these idiots a few years back? Too bad they survived.
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I eat beef and pork, and both come from mammals. I also hunt Deer once in a while; also a mammal. Why should I be against the Japanese hunting these sea-cows?
Last time I checked none of those were on the protected/endangered species list.
Most whales are....
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Last time I checked none of those were on the protected/endangered species list.
Most whales are....
The ones being hunted?
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Most whales are....
Just did a quick check (you know, what you should have done before posting that): There currently are 41 species of whale. Only 11 of them are on the endangered list. So no, most whales are not endangered species. Get your facts straight.
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Both sides of this are ugly really , but I'm in thought if I was captain of a ship working the sea and these clowns came close I would defend myself and my crew with any and all means possible . That group of eco pirates should do us all a favor and go down with their ship , or as previously stated go attack the Russians and see what they get .
To hide behind rules , laws , and eco brand of ideas . All are wrong IMO however if no law is broken by the Japenese then they should be allowed to work without hassle.
Nutte :salute
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forget it :(
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I wonder if the LA Times comment thread is still open... At least one troller on each side was posting, but it's died down a bit lately.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2009/06/whale-war-saga-between-japanese-hunters-and-sea-shepherd-to-escalate-.html
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It angers me that the Japs are hiding behind science, while not actually doing any real science.
I think they have a major contribution to Gastronomy science. Though some may argue that this should be classified as art - in that case, they kill whales for art. Now that sounds a lot more sophisticated and stylish...
The only real question is whether they are over-hunting a specific kind into extinction. As long as the answer is no, fire at will.
Ok, im not an eco nut at all, but i think its wrong what there doing..... have you seen what they do? They chase the whales for miles, and shoot them with a 6 foot harpoon, then they drag them along side of boat, if the whale isnt dead yet, they start shooting it with rifles...I am against animal abuse to.... but im just saying, leave the dang whales alone
Hunting is the most humane method of killing an animal for its meat. I believe that the animal should live as its kind lives in the wild, till you come and kill it. I have a much bigger moral issue with the way some geese and cows are raised for butchering. Animal are hunted in nature, by humans or others - that's the way of nature and in a way, an essential part of it (see: evolution).
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The only real question is whether they are over-hunting a specific kind into extinction. As long as the answer is no, fire at will.
Hunting is the most humane method of killing an animal for its meat. I believe that the animal should live as its kind lives in the wild, till you come and kill it. I have a much bigger moral issue with the way some geese and cows are raised for butchering. Animal are hunted in nature, by humans or others - that's the way of nature and in a way, an essential part of it (see: evolution).
+1 QFT
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I agree the Japanese are hiding behind "research".
Why don't the Japanese just leave the IWC and start another organisation that isn't overrun with an anti whaling tone. Who enforces the IWC anyways? :rolleyes:
I doubt they want to exterminate the species. How would that benefit them?
BTW, anyone tried whale? I'm getting hungry.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/WhaleWars.jpg)
:rofl
Would be pretty funny for the japanese to take a surplus WW2 destroyer (if there is any left afloat) and temporarily rename it to the "stingray." Heck, even use a small light carrier and have some Kates or Val's as they buzz the hippies. Equip some dummy torps on the kates and lets videotape the hilarity
Imagine everyone on the hippie boat to cry "Crikey! Its a stingray!" :uhoh :cry
:D
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I have to say go Japs sink the retards already. I dont nesicarily agree with the japs and their "Research" But those physco Eco nuts have to go.
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Have you seen what goes on in a chicken processing plant? Butchering animals isn't a pretty business. Lobsters and crabs are boiled alive, yeah that's humane...
I eat beef and pork, and both come from mammals. I also hunt Deer once in a while; also a mammal. Why should I be against the Japanese hunting these sea-cows?
Didn't the scandinavians sink these idiots a few years back? Too bad they survived.
yes, but heres the thing.... chickens, cows, and such will basically all ways be there since there are large farms... that isnt so with whales, you cant make a giant farm and have them born and raised.
-BigBOBCH
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All the endangered whale species are rebounding quite nicely. There are millions of great whales in the oceans now. Even the Blue Whale, once on the brink of extinction, are growing in numbers. Why do you think whales will not always be there?
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yes, but heres the thing.... chickens, cows, and such will basically all ways be there since there are large farms... that isnt so with whales, you cant make a giant farm and have them born and raised.
-BigBOBCH
... and therefore we should eat more whales. Applying the same logic, any specie that becomes a trendy dish in the western world, is almost guaranteed the survival of its kind. If you are economical, you do not go extinct. If the market is big enough there will be whale farms. There will be submerged cages or whatever, where whales growth is accelerated by injected hormones and plankton is shoved down their throat. They will not be much of a whale anymore, but their kind will survive. Personally I prefer it to stay an exotic dish and let a few of them be hunted, instead of farmed, to supply it.
reality is ugly.
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My country (Iceland) has recently cropped some unpopularity by hunting minky whale. Not many, like 30 a year with an estimated population of several thousands around the country. The population of them is estimated to eat more fish than our whole fishing fleet brings to port, but you have the greenies critisizing the fishing as well. (We're one of very few european countries that don't overfish dangerously and it's one of the basic reasons for us not being in the EU).
We stopped whaling for some 20 years period, yet were always branded with the "Whale killer" slogan.
But whale farming.....that's one angle. You'd have to fence off a whole fjord for that. I doubt it is possible though.
BTW, minky whale tastes like good beef with a whiff of some ocean flavour. It's very very good! Greenland whale is also quite nice. Whale gullash, mmmmm.
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My country (Iceland) has recently cropped some unpopularity by hunting minky whale. Not many, like 30 a year with an estimated population of several thousands around the country. The population of them is estimated to eat more fish than our whole fishing fleet brings to port, but you have the greenies critisizing the fishing as well. (We're one of very few european countries that don't overfish dangerously and it's one of the basic reasons for us not being in the EU).
Whales eat small schooling fish. People like to eat the larger predatory fish like Tuna. You don't mean numerically more fish, right? Because that wouldn't be very surprising.
If Iceland fishes sustainably, then good for them. Most of the world doesn't.
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I just don't think the whale wars dudes are very smart. Going into international waters, attacking other boats, and then complaining, when the people, who are just trying to put food on their tables, retaliate.
There's probably a few other ways to protest their actions that what they're doing. Because that's dangerous for both sides.
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Whales eat small schooling fish. People like to eat the larger predatory fish like Tuna. You don't mean numerically more fish, right? Because that wouldn't be very surprising.
If Iceland fishes sustainably, then good for them. Most of the world doesn't.
I like small schooling fish. Ever had sardines or anchovies? I think they eat cod and herring too.
I'm pretty sure killer whales dont stick too little fishies and krill.
Those bastages are killing all the poor small fish!
If the queen knew this she'd be pretty pissed at those eco killing whales! :D
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If you prefer sardines to fresh Tuna, then we must be a different species. ;)
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If you prefer sardines to fresh Tuna, then we must be a different species. ;)
Tuna is my favorite sushi. No, Yellowtail is. No, I like salmon the best. Dang I love it all.
If im eating it cooked Ill take Mahi.
However, a few hours before the sunrise I'd actually prefer a few crackers and a can of sardines or herring.
I will happily try whale as soon as I get the chance. These dern cow steaks arent big enough. :D
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Its all fake. All parties are making money from it.
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caught me a mahi last week...haven't cooked the bugger yet. Should have had more. Guys on the other side of the boat were slamming them. But I had my 8 yr old with me so I had to tend to his fish as well as trying to get the school of mahi to hit. You have to give it to mahi, the will eat the bait no matter how big it is, the mahi I lost was maybe 25 inches or so and hit a 9 inch ballyhoo. In hindsight I should have been tossing the sardines instead of the ballyhoo since the school was all peanuts.
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Ok, im not an eco nut at all, but i think its wrong what there doing..... have you seen what they do? They chase the whales for miles, and shoot them with a 6 foot harpoon, then they drag them along side of boat, if the whale isnt dead yet, they start shooting it with rifles...I am against animal abuse to.... but im just saying, leave the dang whales alone
-BigBOBCH
Just found out they use explosive harpoons that either kill the whale outright, or knocks it unconscious. That's a lot more considerate and "humane" than what most of our harvested animals (like fish) get.
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If those whales are really as smart as those flamers say they are they should do a split-s when the harpoon ship gets on their 6 rather than running like a no-skilled dweeb. Those ships can't follow them in a dive and can't turn fast enough to catch up to them after they are already extending the other way. All they need is to use some SCM and maintain their SA. Duhhh.