Whale Wars

[MORAY37]

Hey, that sounds intresting.  How long have you been working on that?  Hope you don't mind me asking, what is your hypothesis? 

I am in Kansas, have my own consulting business for land management.  Here is my web site, www.workforgrass.com.  My specialty is range ecology or plant specialist. 

Well considering the various pathogens that have been showing up as of late, the short list is mismanagement of the land surrounding the Indian River Lagoon(Inordinately high phosphates and other organics from agriculture), compounded by mismanagement by the South FL water management district.(reduction of flow for human and agricultural use) These, coupled with a population of large mammals that are internally quite similar to humans, that don't move around all that much, (IRL dolphins have a very defined and small range, and very infrequently pass through the inlets here and range out to sea) gives a very bad cocktail mix to the health of the system.  If you would like some more information, feel free to PM me.  Linking papers I've published to this BBS may prove to be a bad idea, with the anti-science front so "developed" on this particular board site. 

The link is a synopsis of some of the work I've been involved with, though.   Lobomycosis was an extremely significant find in a wild population of dolphins.  With a little further research, you may see why.  Also, think about any where else you've heard of pappilomavirus.  It may give you pause to consider for a minute or two, when you make the connections. 


http://www.hboi.edu/downloads/pdf/Bossart_2007.pdf

[Buzzard7]

Hey Moray how many certs do you hold for scuba? Diving the Florida coast is pretty good although I would prefer Micronesia, Solomons and that area.

[mtnman]

In all fairness, Nat'l Geographic wants nothing to do with them.  The Discovery Network is backboning the "documentary", but not funding the actual running of the ship.  I do wonder how long that might last should the ratings start elevating, though.

Also, Oakranger, to answer your question from a page or two prior, I'm a marine biologist.  I'm currently on the east coast of Florida working with toxins/parasite vectors in Tursiops truncatus (Bottlenose Dolphin) found in the resident population of the Indian River Lagoon.  

Thanks for clearing that up Moray.  It was hard to tell from the clips I saw, and I didn't delve deeper.

[Jebus]

Last week, Greenpeace Australia spokesperson Steve Shallhorn announced that Greenpeace would be sending a ship to Antarctic waters. The same day Japan announced that they would be sending a Japanese Coast Guard gunboat to defend the whaling fleet. It appears that the Japanese government has successfully frightened Greenpeace away this year.

"They can send the entire Japanese Navy down to the Southern Ocean if they like, but Sea Shepherd and the crew of the Steve Irwin will not be intimidated by this kind of brutal military thuggery. When we say we put our lives on the line to defend the whales, we mean it. It's not just a slogan for us," said Captain Watson. "I have not seen a whale die since I left Greenpeace in 1977 and I have no intention of seeing a whale die this year. They don't kill whales when we show up and they won't kill whales when we arrive again this year. They will have to sink us first."

I was reading the Sea Shepard web page on Whaling in the Antartic, and this is what I found.  What a bunch of nuts.

Did anyone else notice in the first episode in the opening scene that they said someone was shot!

I believe they said it was the captain.  I dont know if it was to get you intrested and it happens in a later episode or it was from a previous year.

But every one of them are crazy!

[oakranger]

What kind for crops and irrigation crops are there in the area?  Do they have a established riparian system?  What other factors reducing water flow?

[MORAY37]

Hey Moray how many certs do you hold for scuba? Diving the Florida coast is pretty good although I would prefer Micronesia, Solomons and that area.

Open Water, AOW, Rescue, Nitrox,  DM and a governmental cert for Commercial and Scientific diving (required by my employer)

Florida diving has gone down markedly in the past decade.  Water has too many organics, therefore heavy macroalgal blooms in close.  Middle and upper Keys have a few spots that aren't spoiled yet.

Belize is by far the best diving in this hemisphere.

Micronesia would always be preferable, no doubt.  Guam was quite impressive.  It is sad that the Crown of Thorns starfish is having its' way with the corals around the Piti Bomb Holes.  Sooner or later, they will start spreading out and destroying the rest of the reef.

[MORAY37]

What kind for crops and irrigation crops are there in the area?  Do they have a established riparian system?  What other factors reducing water flow?

The problem is not the system, rather the demands upon the system.  There have been attempts at establishing a system of runoff events, although, there really was never a natural system of flood events in the watershed to start with.  Most of the bottom ecology was therefore shallow rooted and silty.  The ony major flood events that occur in this area are landfalling hurrricanes, which average a hit once a decade (mean of every 7.4 years).  The natural hydrology demands this slow release on the system followed by large purges....large releases of water will tend to favor organisms that are resistant to such force.... most of those being non-endemic to the area.

Add to that the high percentage of both sugar plantations and large tracts of central Florida dedicated to raising cattle, and you add a large amount of organic waste, and nitogenous base fertilizers, with phosphates added in.  The St. Lucie River has times when it flows lime green from all the algal blooms, and is subsequently closed to fishing and other recreation.



It really is a matter of the overwhelming concentrations of both human and organic waste, ending up in a shielded lagoon with very little water swapping occuring between it and the ocean beyond.

[Vulcan]

Interesting point of view from our media about the situation, seems like the general public is slowly tiring of the greenies antics:

Anti-whalers are tone deaf
THE LONG VIEW - RICHARD LONG
The Dominion Post | Tuesday, 02 December 2008

At the risk of being harpooned by the anti-whalers, could I ever so tentatively suggest that we ponder a change of approach from the dangerous full-on confrontations, ship collisions and drama in the dangerous Southern Ocean.
Without a doubt, continued Japanese whaling is a huge impediment to relations with Japan, our third-largest trading partner. But if there is one thing that will rally Japanese patriotism, it is foreigners pushing the country around in public. That makes it impossible for Japanese politicians to budge, especially as the Western furore over whaling is incomprehensible in Japanese terms.
I recall a Japanese ambassador's daughter snookering me, many years ago, in a discussion on the subject.
Newly arrived in Wellington from Tokyo, the intelligent, articulate university student was genuinely puzzled about our obsession.
She was incredulous that New Zealanders could shoot and eat Bambi. And also those little white lambs that looked so pretty frolicking around in our fields. She could not bring herself to do this and could not comprehend the contradiction in our stance, though, like most Japanese, she would not eat whale meat either.
This came to mind when newly appointed Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully warned last week that taxpayers could not be expected to fund rescue operations when protestors came to grief challenging Japanese whalers in the Southern Ocean.
The bravery, skill and idealism of the anti-whaling protestors is without doubt. The trouble is, these high-profile ritual protests seem to be contributing to the problem as well as endangering the participants. Far from hastening the end of whaling, they may actually be helping to prolong it.
The dramatic protests, while great for Greenpeace's image and fundraising, reinforce Japanese intransigence and make it more difficult for rational Japanese diplomats and bureaucrats to win the debate in the hugely powerful bureaucracies in Tokyo, and then in the Japanese parliament.
This was made clear in a revealing interview on these pages last week with Tomohiko Taniguchi, the official spokesman for the Japanese Foreign Affairs Ministry for the past three years.
No longer a government official, he candidly admitted he loathed having to defend whaling because it was damaging to Japanese interests and irrelevant to the economy.
Whaling accounted for only .0014 per cent of the economy and employed only a few thousand in a country of 130 million.
"The stake for Japan is near zero."
About 80 Japanese politicians supported whaling, but it was a core issue for only six to eight, Mr Taniguchi pointed out.
His view was that a lowering of the level of protest could help the persuasion progress within Japan, rather than entrenching political support.
Alowered tone in debate with Japan has never been a predominant Kiwi characteristic. Former Labour deputy prime minister Bob Tizard once created worldwide shock waves for observing, after the death of the Japanese emperor, that he should have been chopped into pieces after the war.
That was a sentiment no doubt privately cheered by Western servicemen, but the diplomatic flurry it created was off the Richter scale.
Former prime minister Rob Muldoon once proclaimed, in a trade dispute, that he planned to drag the Japanese kicking and screaming into the 20th century.
He publicly demanded a "squid pro quo" trade deal with Japanese agriculture minister Ichiro Nakagawa. Japanese intransigence saw it never got off the ground. Mr Muldoon, in effect, got Nakagawed.
Anti-whalers are more inclined to the Bob Tizard full- frontal approach, in spite of the useful signals from Mr Taniguchi, and the Sea Shepherd protest ship will continue confrontations this year. But Greenpeace, interestingly, has opted instead for a public relations campaign in an endeavour to sway Japanese public opinion.
Of course, no one is taking the long view, to the period following a whaling ban. Ultimately there will need to be culling of non- baleen whales, which eat tonnes of fish, in much the same way as some African countries cull elephant herds to match the environment.
Either that or, as these species proliferate, we may see certain fish stocks depleted to such an extent that they are priced off our tables.
And then there are those protected and proliferating seal colonies around our coasts, consuming vast amounts of fish.

[oakranger]

CRAP.  So at this point, there really is no method of reversing the pollution other than stop agricultural in the area. 

Well Moray37, you know as much as i know that wildlife will get low priority where agricultural and development get higher priority. 

[NEARY]

I have Watched the 4 episodes so far and they said that they rammed a japanese fuel tanker to make it leave 3 years or so back.

WTF

if they had spilled oil from that tanker they would have killed all the whales within 5 miles!
THEY JUST DON'T THINK

I hope that the Japanese eventully capture them (mostly the captain) and imprison them in jail until they realize that they were probably the cause for more whales getting killed


-NEARY

[texasmom]

In honor of your Whale Wars thread I tried loading my eskimo-hunting-whale avatar (thank you Xargos! I love the avatar!), but it was too big.

I guess it's the thought that counts though, right? 

[RAIDER14]

Here is a clip from when the captain supposedly gets "shot".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u138Ez4Tio&feature=related

[oakranger]

Here is a clip from when the captain supposedly gets "shot".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u138Ez4Tio&feature=related

Right at the heart.  he is lucky

[Meatwad]

 It looks like in the next episode they are going to try a night boarding of a ship and sabotage their communication equipment.  

This sounds like an act of terrorism against the whaling ship. Treat them hippie nutjobs as terrorists if they board the ship and say thery were killed while trying to cripple a ship out at sea.

Better let, keep the gunboat nearby and let the nutjobs know that if they "breach" the perimiter, they will be considered hostile and will be fired upon. After their little toy boat is sunk, they will think twice next time if there are any survivors left. Perhaps they just "happen" to dissapear oneday

[Race]

      I wouldnt put it past em to fake that whole deal. Wouldnt be hard to pop one of those vests before you put to sea. It defintly looked like a impacted bullet tho. The part that gives me pause is he wasnt even sore or bruised. With soft armor like that you KNOW you have been hit. Even hard armor (ie plate) will give you a good thwack. Those looked like flash bangs being thrown. I doubt it was from one of those but I really couldnt be sure.

Race