Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: kamori on December 01, 2008, 11:12:02 PM
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Here's this years take...My 12yr old daughter got this 23 3/4" wide 3 x 4 Mule deer Saturday..Mine is The 4 x 4 whitetail taken Friday..Enjoy :salute
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0418.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0419.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0421.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0422.jpg)
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Good shots. What will you do with the hides. I can used them for reenactment.
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poor bambi and its mom. good shots
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Hides go to the recyclers for a few pair of gloves..
Kam
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poor bambi and its mom. good shots
ummm yenny, these are bucks (males).
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:aok
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Couple nice bucks!
Was the whitetail in the lower areas? River bottom or valley maybe? Or up with the mulies?
Whereabouts in Montana? I went to school in Missoula. I'm hoping to hunt deer in Montana in 2010.
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All I can say is..I'm Calling PETA...... :D
Nice job Kamori :aok
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I step on bugs for the hell of it. Does that count as hunting too?
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Nice Kamori, good job by your daughter as well
:aok
Wurzel (mmmmmm Venison)
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Couple nice bucks!
Was the whitetail in the lower areas? River bottom or valley maybe? Or up with the mulies?
Whereabouts in Montana? I went to school in Missoula. I'm hoping to hunt deer in Montana in 2010.
mtnman...Yeah the Whitetail was in lower elevation around 5,700' elev. The Mulie was in very steep terrain at around 6,800' elev.
I have 40 acres SW of Lincoln, Mt. I live in Kalispell.
Kamori
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Nice bucks. What did you both take them with and what was the range? Ground hunting or tree stands? Details.....need details.
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OK you have removed the "deer threat." Job well done, now get back in the game!
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Then I ran accross this when I was surfing liveleak site today:
"SEDALIA, Mo. — A Sedalia hunter bagged a big buck on the second day of firearms season, but the kill caused him a lot of pain.
Forty-nine-year-old Randy Goodman said he thought two well-placed shots with his .270-caliber rifle had killed the buck on Nov. 19. Goodman said the deer looked dead to him, but seconds later the nine-point, 240-pound animal came to life.
The buck rose up, knocked Goodman down and attacked him with his antlers in what the veteran hunter called "15 seconds of hell." The deer ran a short distance and went down, and died after Goodman fired two more shots.
Soon Goodman started feeling dizzy and noticed his vest was soaked in blood.
So he reached his truck and drove to a hospital, where he received seven staples in his scalp and was treated for a slight concussion and bruises.
"
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Then I ran accross this when I was surfing liveleak site today:
"SEDALIA, Mo. — A Sedalia hunter bagged a big buck on the second day of firearms season, but the kill caused him a lot of pain.
Forty-nine-year-old Randy Goodman said he thought two well-placed shots with his .270-caliber rifle had killed the buck on Nov. 19. Goodman said the deer looked dead to him, but seconds later the nine-point, 240-pound animal came to life.
The buck rose up, knocked Goodman down and attacked him with his antlers in what the veteran hunter called "15 seconds of hell." The deer ran a short distance and went down, and died after Goodman fired two more shots.
Soon Goodman started feeling dizzy and noticed his vest was soaked in blood.
So he reached his truck and drove to a hospital, where he received seven staples in his scalp and was treated for a slight concussion and bruises.
"
My uncle Roy (Rest his soul) had that happen to him about 18-20 years ago. He went out with his brand new Marlin 30-30 rifle opening day of deer season and had his son along with him. Took a nice 10 point down. Walked up to the deer and grabbed it by the antlers, placed his new rifle in the rack, and had my cousin take a picture. Soon as the flash on the camera went off, so did the deer with my uncles new rifle tangled up in the antlers by the sling. They tried to track that deer for 4 hours but never found it.
My uncle in typical Roy fashion, had the picture blown up poster size, frammed it in a nice solid oak frame, with a big brass plauqe on the bottom that said "The one that got away"
Hearing his story taught me to never assume an animal I shot is dead. First thing I do when I get to a deer I've shot is gut it with my knife right then and there to make sure it's dead.
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My uncle Roy (Rest his soul) had that happen to him about 18-20 years ago. He went out with his brand new Marlin 30-30 rifle opening day of deer season and had his son along with him. Took a nice 10 point down. Walked up to the deer and grabbed it by the antlers, placed his new rifle in the rack, and had my cousin take a picture. Soon as the flash on the camera went off, so did the deer with my uncles new rifle tangled up in the antlers by the sling. They tried to track that deer for 4 hours but never found it.
My uncle in typical Roy fashion, had the picture blown up poster size, frammed it in a nice solid oak frame, with a big brass plauqe on the bottom that said "The one that got away"
Hearing his story taught me to never assume an animal I shot is dead. First thing I do when I get to a deer I've shot is gut it with my knife right then and there to make sure it's dead.
:rofl
i wounder if another hunter shot that same deer and saw that he got a free Marlin 30-30 rifle.
Kamori, what are the scores on them?
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Kam WTG. were you spawn camping? :rofl
now you can send me some of that venison and ill whoop ya up some Kick butt jerky!
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Nice bucks. What did you both take them with and what was the range? Ground hunting or tree stands? Details.....need details.
Hornet...
Mine was taken at about 100 yards slight downhill behind the shoulder with a Remington Model 721 30-06 180 grain Nossler Partition
My daughters mulie was 75 yards down hill very steep terrain with a 270 Remington Model 721 150 grain out of the Box with iron sights on the rifle
Both on the ground we were Hunting Elk both times we came across theses..
Both guns were my Grand Dads
Kam
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Oak I didnt score them but The Mulie is 23 3/4" spread and the Elk I got in 2005 was a 315 with deductions 327 without deductions...6 x 6
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/280.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/Dispelk1.jpg)
Kam
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nice pets, do they eat much?
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My God man you cut his legs off....LOL
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Hey Kam.
Seriously on this, give your kid a WTFG for me. My pop never hunted and it wasn't until 1999 I even took a Hunter Safety course. My father-in-law and his good friend have taught me a lot. I also enjoy the time that "Dad" and I don't get when the wife is present. I got my first and only deer (6 point Buck) in 2000. I had just purchased a Sig SHR-970 30-06 with a Redfield scope.
WTFG can be whatever you want, hug, hi-5, just tell him "Jay" said congrats.
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Very nice animals. Congrats to all. :salute
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Very nice..I live in Grangeville ID... :salute
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In all seriously you can't say they were hunted.
If you chased them down with a knife then maybe you could say they were hunted, but shooting them .... no way. It's not like there was a possibility they would fight back is there.
wipass
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mmm...bbq deer chops :rock
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In all seriously you can't say they were hunted.
If you chased them down with a knife then maybe you could say they were hunted, but shooting them .... no way. It's not like there was a possibility they would fight back is there.
wipass
Spoken with the ignorance of a NON-Hunter...LOL That elk I HUNTED him for 2 seasons to learn his patterns and habits. He Was hunted..Oh BTW look up the definition of Hunt. My Daughter and I spent 7 1/2 hours hiking on Saturday in very steep Mountainous terrain at 6,800 + Elev. No Tree stands or grain fields or deer scent or Calling them in. Clean Kill with Lots of skill involved. You want to run around in the forest with a rifle I'll Hunt you...:)
Kam
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In all seriously you can't say they were hunted.
If you chased them down with a knife then maybe you could say they were hunted, but shooting them .... no way. It's not like there was a possibility they would fight back is there.
wipass
You're ignorant.
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In all seriously you can't say they were hunted.
If you chased them down with a knife then maybe you could say they were hunted, but shooting them .... no way. It's not like there was a possibility they would fight back is there.
wipass
"As he gobbles down the hamburger somebody made for him by hitting a helpless cow over the head with a hammer".
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"As he gobbles down the hamburger somebody made for him by hitting a helpless cow over the head with a hammer".
OMG.....LMFAO That is good :rofl :rofl <S> Bro Great Line
Kam
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Whats the fishing like up there Kamori?
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Here's this years take...My 12yr old daughter got this 23 3/4" wide 3 x 4 Mule deer Saturday..Mine is The 4 x 4 whitetail taken Friday..Enjoy :salute
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0418.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0419.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0421.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj212/skerlock/DSCN0422.jpg)
I like very much! can i have sexy time with your girlfriend? i can pay you very much for sexy time! She very beutifull.
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You may have stalked him for a season or two, you may think you are a hunter. But you shot him, you aren't a hunter or even close to being a hunter, you are a target shooter. There was no risk to you at all, an animal that was aware of "normal" predators was shot and killed. End of story !
wipass
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Says "Sally".
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You may have stalked him for a season or two, you may think you are a hunter. But you shot him, you aren't a hunter or even close to being a hunter, you are a target shooter. There was no risk to you at all, an animal that was aware of "normal" predators was shot and killed. End of story !
wipass
OK, I'll bite. Go ahead and define hunters for us there, Nugent.
To OP, cool pics, congrats to the young ones as well.
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You may have stalked him for a season or two, you may think you are a hunter. But you shot him, you aren't a hunter or even close to being a hunter, you are a target shooter. There was no risk to you at all, an animal that was aware of "normal" predators was shot and killed. End of story !
wipass
Definitions:
Hunt or hunting includes shooting, shooting at, pursuing, taking, catching, or killing any
wild animal.
That's how the state defines it anyway- do you have a better version?
You're correct that he didn't engage in hand to hoof combat with those critters on "even" conditions. Had he, he'd have gotten his *** kicked, as it would actually have been a very unfair fight. It also would have been an extremely "unnatural" way to "hunt".
You're sadly ignorant of the predator-prey relationship if you think that predators give their quarry an "equal" chance. They'll take advantage of any situation they can, capitalize on any weakness, and seize any opportunity to capture/kill their quarry with minimal danger to themselves. That's what makes a predator successful. Unsuccessful predators die, and usually don't live long enough to produce offspring. Predators that attack on "equal" terms simply die, and probably a long painful death from injuries and/or starvation.
A falcon doesn't give a duck a chance to inflict damage. Does it have a chance to get away? Sure. But even that isn't "given", but rather earned by evasion. An owl kills without alerting its prey to its presence- until it no longer matters. Wolves attack in packs, with those in front distracting the quarry while those in back hamstring and disembowel it. Mountain lions attack from ambush. Many predators don't even kill before eating their quarry. Why bother? The requirement is to capture, subdue, and eat. Death (and its resulting transmission of life) is a by-product. Larger, more dangerous prey is rendered incapable of escape or defense, but smaller prey is simply swallowed. An example of each is a hawk catching a rabbit, or wolves attacking moose, vs a hawk catching a mouse, or a bass eating a minnow, or a barn swallow catching flies. "Rendered incapable of escape or defense" is far from synonymous with "dead".
Kamori's use of a weapon is an example of the human races ability to manipulate objects and its environment to its advantage. Without that, none of us would be here. Is a firearm a "natural" way to hunt? Yes, of course it is. It's a natural use of a tool naturally devised by a natural organism. It started out as a thrown rock or stick, became a thrown rock tied to the tip of a stick, then to a rock tied to a stick and then propelled by a stick, then propelled by a piece of string tied to a stick (spear, atlatl, and bow) and finally (so far) to a specialized "rock" propelled by a mixture of natural materials (charcoal, sulfur, and potassium nitrate) or man-made (synthetic) versions of the same.
Kamori hunted well, and has taught his offspring to hunt as well. He's a successful predator. And like the rest of us, I'm sure he scavenges to supplement his diet as well. Scavenging is when you find and eat something that has died or been killed by another organism and left laying around. A trip to the grocery store and sorting through the meat cooler is a perfect example of scavenging.
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Karaya and others, you are clueless. wipass is trying to get a point across- people like him- real men- hunt with nothing but their hands and teeth. Hiding behind rocks, jumping out and wrestling the beast to the earth as did your ancestors thousands of years before you. Then, with bare hands, killing the animal in a way that does not make use of opposable thumbs- that would be unfair- the animal is killed and eaten raw (the animal does not have fire, why should you?). The carcass of the real hunt is then used as a shelter until the next victim arrives.
That is how you hunt.
:rofl
Edit; I knew it was 'opposable', freaking Firefox. :furious
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Karaya and others, you are clueless. wipass is trying to get a point across- people like him- real men- hunt with nothing but their hands and teeth. Hiding behind rocks, jumping out and wrestling the beast to the earth as did your ancestors thousands of years before you. Then, with bare hands, killing the animal in a way that does not make use of imposable thumbs- that would be unfair- the animal is killed and eaten raw (the animal does not have fire, why should you?). The carcass of the real hunt is then used as a shelter until the next victim arrives.
That is how you hunt.
:rofl
:D
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Karaya and others, you are clueless. wipass is trying to get a point across- people like him- real men- hunt with nothing but their hands and teeth. Hiding behind rocks, jumping out and wrestling the beast to the earth as did your ancestors thousands of years before you. Then, with bare hands, killing the animal in a way that does not make use of opposable thumbs- that would be unfair- the animal is killed and eaten raw (the animal does not have fire, why should you?). The carcass of the real hunt is then used as a shelter until the next victim arrives.
That is how you hunt.
:rofl
Edit; I knew it was 'opposable', freaking Firefox. :furious
WOW..Great responses guys..I couldn't have defended it better my self.
A bit more on this season..On Opening Day my son and I ran into a Grizzly bear 50 yards away from us. Now i don't know about wipass but my 30-06 didn't seen to impressive at that time. Maybe your bear spray makes you feel safer. The Bear called the shots he decided to walk away and not attempt to have a meal. I'm very thankful for that as is my 14yr old son. My daughter and I saw a full grown Wolf on that day she got her deer again under 100yards away. I have taught my kids that your on their terms in the woods. We are no longer at the top of the food chain out there, Like these judgmental vegans in the grocery store all mighty and powerful scavenging for roots and twigs. Try filling your freezer with food for 1 year without a grocery store. It amazes me how weak some of the human race has become. What would they do if bar codes diapered. I would have loved to see wipass hiding behind a log with his bear spray... :rofl
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Definitions:
Hunt or hunting includes shooting, shooting at, pursuing, taking, catching, or killing any
wild animal.
That's how the state defines it anyway- do you have a better version?
You're correct that he didn't engage in hand to hoof combat with those critters on "even" conditions. Had he, he'd have gotten his *** kicked, as it would actually have been a very unfair fight. It also would have been an extremely "unnatural" way to "hunt".
You're sadly ignorant of the predator-prey relationship if you think that predators give their quarry an "equal" chance. They'll take advantage of any situation they can, capitalize on any weakness, and seize any opportunity to capture/kill their quarry with minimal danger to themselves. That's what makes a predator successful. Unsuccessful predators die, and usually don't live long enough to produce offspring. Predators that attack on "equal" terms simply die, and probably a long painful death from injuries and/or starvation.
A falcon doesn't give a duck a chance to inflict damage. Does it have a chance to get away? Sure. But even that isn't "given", but rather earned by evasion. An owl kills without alerting its prey to its presence- until it no longer matters. Wolves attack in packs, with those in front distracting the quarry while those in back hamstring and disembowel it. Mountain lions attack from ambush. Many predators don't even kill before eating their quarry. Why bother? The requirement is to capture, subdue, and eat. Death (and its resulting transmission of life) is a by-product. Larger, more dangerous prey is rendered incapable of escape or defense, but smaller prey is simply swallowed. An example of each is a hawk catching a rabbit, or wolves attacking moose, vs a hawk catching a mouse, or a bass eating a minnow, or a barn swallow catching flies. "Rendered incapable of escape or defense" is far from synonymous with "dead".
Kamori's use of a weapon is an example of the human races ability to manipulate objects and its environment to its advantage. Without that, none of us would be here. Is a firearm a "natural" way to hunt? Yes, of course it is. It's a natural use of a tool naturally devised by a natural organism. It started out as a thrown rock or stick, became a thrown rock tied to the tip of a stick, then to a rock tied to a stick and then propelled by a stick, then propelled by a piece of string tied to a stick (spear, atlatl, and bow) and finally (so far) to a specialized "rock" propelled by a mixture of natural materials (charcoal, sulfur, and potassium nitrate) or man-made (synthetic) versions of the same.
Kamori hunted well, and has taught his offspring to hunt as well. He's a successful predator. And like the rest of us, I'm sure he scavenges to supplement his diet as well. Scavenging is when you find and eat something that has died or been killed by another organism and left laying around. A trip to the grocery store and sorting through the meat cooler is a perfect example of scavenging.
Very impressive writing MtnMan....Ever make up to Montana ill treat you to some great hunting..
KAM
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Definitions:
Hunt or hunting includes shooting, shooting at, pursuing, taking, catching, or killing any
wild animal.
That's how the state defines it anyway- do you have a better version?
Here's one: Noun 1. hunting - the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport <-------
Here's another :Blood sport Noun 1. any sport involving the killing of an animal.
You're correct that he didn't engage in hand to hoof combat with those critters on "even" conditions. Had he, he'd have gotten his *** kicked, as it would actually have been a very unfair fight. It also would have been an extremely "unnatural" way to "hunt".
Where did "wip" indicate: "hand to hoof combat" was the accepted method to satisfy his definition of "hunting"?
Answer: He didn't. So, don't you think you SHOULD have asked "wip" what he meant, before you typed out a short dissertation on "hunting", et al and in the process intimate that he (wip) was "sadly ignorant of the predator-prey relationship if you think that predators give their quarry an "equal" chance"? I think you should have asked for more input from him.
I've done my share of "hunting" in my younger years, and (Kamori) I'm absolutely sure I will survive any "food crunch"...as it were. Call hunting whatever you want...in this day and age it's not necessary (in THIS country)to hunt for survival, ergo it's a Blood Sport...IMHO.
You're sadly ignorant of the predator-prey relationship if you think that predators give their quarry an "equal" chance.
------snip------
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I've done my share of "hunting" in my younger years, and (Kamori) I'm absolutely sure I will survive any "food crunch"...as it were. Call hunting whatever you want...in this day and age it's not necessary (in THIS country)to hunt for survival, ergo it's a Blood Sport...IMHO.
------snip------
I have 3 kids I support on my own. It is absolutely necessary for us to fill our freezer .... LMAO Blood Sport...For some it might be a sport..Not here...That Bull I got mounted was so he'll always be remembered. He was a very elusive adversary and deserves my respect.
Kam
KAM
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Here's one: Noun 1. hunting - the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport <-------
Here's another :Blood sport Noun 1. any sport involving the killing of an animal.
Where did "wip" indicate: Answer: He didn't. So, don't you think you SHOULD have asked "wip" what he meant, before you typed out a short dissertation on "hunting", et al and in the process intimate that he (wip) was "sadly ignorant of the predator-prey relationship if you think that predators give their quarry an "equal" chance"? I think you should have asked for more input from him.
I've done my share of "hunting" in my younger years, and (Kamori) I'm absolutely sure I will survive any "food crunch"...as it were. Call hunting whatever you want...in this day and age it's not necessary (in THIS country)to hunt for survival, ergo it's a Blood Sport...IMHO.
------snip------
No they shouldn't have, as a matter of fact, we're ignoring your posts as well. Preach to someone else. "Blood Sport", LMFAO.
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No they shouldn't have, as a matter of fact, we're ignoring your posts as well. Preach to someone else. "Blood Sport", LMFAO.
Kam, WTG very nice sir.
The best thing about hunting is the time in the field with your kids. My father took me hunting as soon as i was old enough. My father passed away 2 yrs ago this February. The fondest memorys i have is our hunting trips. I can still picture us sitting on an old fallen tree, his snow encrusted glove wiping the moisture from the stock of his rifle, staring out over the meadow behind our house.
Funny the way that works, i remember being disappointed after missing a really nice doe. My pop just looked at me and put his hand on my shoulder and explained that its not about getting something when you go out, its about the sounds, smells and feeling of the outdoors.
I'd give anything to have just 15minutes more with him on that old log.
Keep building the memories sir.
<S>
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I have 3 kids I support on my own. It is absolutely necessary for us to fill our freezer .... LMAO Blood Sport...For some it might be a sport..Not here...That Bull I got mounted was so he'll always be remembered. He was a very elusive adversary and deserves my respect.
Kam
KAM
It is what it is..whatever works for you...there is no "Grey area" imho.....ymmv.
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No they shouldn't have, as a matter of fact, we're ignoring your posts as well. Preach to someone else. "Blood Sport", LMFAO.
Not preaching...just expressing MY OPINION. Be careful now, y'all only have one derrière albeit located in questionable position on your anatomy, at the time you were typing your response. :t Ignoring MY post!?? Sorry bunky, as soon as you hit "quote" ...well I'm sure you can figure that one out. :rolleyes:
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Not preaching...just expressing MY OPINION. Be careful now, y'all only have one derrière albeit located in questionable position on your anatomy, at the time you were typing your response. :t Ignoring MY post!?? Sorry bunky, as soon as you hit "quote" ...well I'm sure you can figure that one out. :rolleyes:
Yeah, you just keep name calling. You failed "the test". Welcome to ignore.
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Kam, WTG very nice sir.
The best thing about hunting is the time in the field with your kids. My father took me hunting as soon as i was old enough. My father passed away 2 yrs ago this February. The fondest memorys i have is our hunting trips. I can still picture us sitting on an old fallen tree, his snow encrusted glove wiping the moisture from the stock of his rifle, staring out over the meadow behind our house.
Funny the way that works, i remember being disappointed after missing a really nice doe. My pop just looked at me and put his hand on my shoulder and explained that its not about getting something when you go out, its about the sounds, smells and feeling of the outdoors.
I'd give anything to have just 15minutes more with him on that old log.
Keep building the memories sir.
:salute Mrbaily..
Very sorry for your loss...
My daughter and I both shoot the 2 guns my Grand Father owned.. Remingtons Model 721 .270 and .30-06. Tons of Memories over generations..To Me being out there is living life at it's finest.. :salute :salute To all who have had the opportunity to build theses type of memories..I feel sorry for thoses that never get to experience it..
Kam
<S>
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Here's one: Noun 1. hunting - the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport <-------
Here's another :Blood sport Noun 1. any sport involving the killing of an animal.
Where did "wip" indicate: Answer: He didn't. So, don't you think you SHOULD have asked "wip" what he meant, before you typed out a short dissertation on "hunting", et al and in the process intimate that he (wip) was "sadly ignorant of the predator-prey relationship if you think that predators give their quarry an "equal" chance"? I think you should have asked for more input from him.
I've done my share of "hunting" in my younger years, and (Kamori) I'm absolutely sure I will survive any "food crunch"...as it were. Call hunting whatever you want...in this day and age it's not necessary (in THIS country)to hunt for survival, ergo it's a Blood Sport...IMHO.
------snip------
<SNICKER!>
I'd be tempted to ignore you too Dentin, if you weren't so entertaining.
How much of the hunting definition did you need to delete to get it to fit your needs?
Who says hunting needs to be necessary to be legitimate? What do you yourself do as a past-time that's necessary?
As for Wipass- he said "In all seriously you can't say they were hunted.
If you chased them down with a knife then maybe you could say they were hunted, but shooting them .... no way. It's not like there was a possibility they would fight back is there.
wipass"
What do you think he meant by that? Are we allowed to take his words and interpret a meaning from them? Or should we read his writing, take no meaning from it, and ask him- "Wipass, what on earth do you mean?" If he responds, can we make a judgement based on what he writes? Or not? Should I then ask- "Wipass, what on earth do you mean by your response to my question?"
As to your response Dentin- I have no idea how to interpret your meaning from your post. What do you mean? Are you trying to communicate with us? Are you agreeing with me/us? Are you disagreeing with me/us? Do you have any idea yourself? Any opinion? Please respond in a manner we can interpret- bearing in mind we'll not be able to understand your intent through your written word without asking what you mean...
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Not preaching...just expressing MY OPINION. Be careful now, y'all only have one derrière albeit located in questionable position on your anatomy, at the time you were typing your response. :t Ignoring MY post!?? Sorry bunky, as soon as you hit "quote" ...well I'm sure you can figure that one out. :rolleyes:
What do you mean?
:rolleyes:
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Very impressive writing MtnMan....Ever make up to Montana ill treat you to some great hunting..
KAM
Aww, man Kamori!
My brother and I (with two others) are actually in the planning stages for a mule deer hunt in (hopefully) 2010. Mind if I keep you in mind as a possible question/answer reference?
I have a friend in Missoula I'm hoping can help with some advice too. Since I moved back here in 1994, I've only hunted Colorado and Wyoming. I'm basically starting from scratch again for Montana.
We're really looking to do a do-it-yourself hunt on public land for deer or possibly elk. When I was in Missoula I really only hunted upland game and waterfowl. The main reason we want to try Montana this time is because three of us will be driving from central Wisconsin, with my brother driving from Seattle. Western Montana is a much better drive for him than Colorado or even Wyoming. We're hoping we can work out a horse rental. Montana as an option just popped up a few weeks ago, so I haven't had much time to look into any of it.
We know how to go about setting up a hunt in Colorado, but I suspect things may be different in Montana- for instance, can we go anywhere we want? Or do we need a guide for wilderness areas? How many preference points will we need? What's a good option for an area to draw a tag, have public land access, and a decent chance to find animals? We're hoping to apply for a preference point this coming application period, so we'll have a point when we apply for the 2010 season.
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Kamori finally got those trouble makers knocking down his trash can. :aok
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<SNICKER!>
I'd be tempted to ignore you too Dentin, if you weren't so entertaining.
Hey, I try..it "ain't" easy...especially with the likes of y'all. :P However, "feel free" to ignore my posts...I really couldn't care less...go ahead, succumb to temptation.
How much of the hunting definition did you need to delete to get it to fit your needs?
Tell ya what: Why don't YOU do a search and derive an answer that'll satisfy your curiosity.
Who says hunting needs to be necessary to be legitimate? What do you yourself do as a past-time that's necessary?
Jeez Louise, here we go again with the "straw-man" crap...I didn't use legitimate in my statement...read, man, READ! Oh, and FYI, MY "past-time" has absolutely NO relation to "hunting...(sniff, sniff, sniff )...hmmm I detect an odor...smells like straw.
As for Wipass- he said "In all seriously you can't say they were hunted.
If you chased them down with a knife then maybe you could say they were hunted, but shooting them .... no way. It's not like there was a possibility they would fight back is there.
wipass"
What do you think he meant by that? Are we allowed to take his words and interpret a meaning from them? Or should we read his writing, take no meaning from it, and ask him- "Wipass, what on earth do you mean?" If he responds, can we make a judgement based on what he writes? Or not? Should I then ask- "Wipass, what on earth do you mean by your response to my question?"
:rofl Now that's funny...make yourself dizzy, did ya.
As to your response Dentin- I have no idea how to interpret your meaning from your post. What do you mean? Are you trying to communicate with us? Are you agreeing with me/us? Are you disagreeing with me/us? Do you have any idea yourself? Any opinion? Please respond in a manner we can interpret- bearing in mind we'll not be able to understand your intent through your written word without asking what you mean...
Now that IS :rofl So, what do YOU mean?? :t and what do you mean by "WE/US ?? Are you pregnant OR do you have a Mouse in your pocket?? :t I really don't see (anywhere) in the above statement what/where the correlation to "hunting" is. Is the statement above a feeble attempt to toss in a "straw-man" ...if it is, FAIL!
It's getting increasingly difficult to reply to your posts. You seem to have lost your ability to stay on subject, without innuendos,/personal attacks.
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So, did you mean something by that? Or not?
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We know how to go about setting up a hunt in Colorado, but I suspect things may be different in Montana- for instance, can we go anywhere we want? Or do we need a guide for wilderness areas? How many preference points will we need? What's a good option for an area to draw a tag, have public land access, and a decent chance to find animals? We're hoping to apply for a preference point this coming application period, so we'll have a point when we apply for the 2010 season.
You can hunt on any public land as an out of stater as long as you have a tag...I think (but I'm not sure) if you can get a general license for the state. Or you might have to specify what areas you want to hunt. There are general elk tags here that allow you to Hunt Bull's or special drawing tags , if drawn allow you to get a cow (elk)...Look me up in the MA sometime and ill give you my Cell# we can talk. I'm on Ch 169 on rook when I'm on...<S> bro
KAM
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Nice.
Anyone who says that shooting an animal isn't "hunting" are ignorant. Humans cant chase down most pray on foot. We don't have razor sharp claws or teeth. We cant fly and swoop down to grab pray. All perdeters have some sort of weapon to take down their pray. Humans have a weapon that we use, its called our brain. So until the day we can chase down a buck jump on it and take it down with a few bite to the throat we use whatever our brain can come up with. Would you feel better if the deer were raised in captivity, and when you wanted some meat you go there pick out your buck and have it herded in to a room where they shock it until it was unconscious then slit its throat?
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So, did you mean something by that? Or not?
I'm not sure...what's your definition of "mean"? :devil
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Nice.
Anyone who says that shooting an animal isn't "hunting" are ignorant. Humans cant chase down most pray on foot. We don't have razor sharp claws or teeth. We cant fly and swoop down to grab pray. All perdeters have some sort of weapon to take down their pray. Humans have a weapon that we use, its called our brain. So until the day we can chase down a buck jump on it and take it down with a few bite to the throat we use whatever our brain can come up with. Would you feel better if the deer were raised in captivity, and when you wanted some meat you go there pick out your buck and have it herded in to a room where they shock it until it was unconscious then slit its throat?
Ok, try this: Enter into the Deer's domain with a Spear...and leave the Deer's domain WITH a Deer....then you can truly wear the "hunters badge" :t
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Ok, try this: Enter into the Deer's domain with a Spear...and leave the Deer's domain WITH a Deer....then you can truly wear the "hunters badge" :t
There are Laws that are specific state to state that would not allow you to do that.
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Go to the grocery store and watch the human animal foraging for food. Nice deer!<S>
Swoose
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Ok, try this: Enter into the Deer's domain with a Spear...and leave the Deer's domain WITH a Deer....then you can truly wear the "hunters badge" :t
Its called evolution. Humans started using stones to kill their food, then spears, atalatals, bows, and now firearms. Hell if I wanted to I could set a net up in a tree and but food under it. Wait until a buck comes by and let the net drop over him then while he's trying to get out I can club him over the head with a big stick a few times until hes unconscious then find a sharp rock to cut his throat. That may be what you call hunting but I doubt its leagel I its not very humane. I along with most other hunters kill for food, and I don't want to make the animal suffer no more then it needs to to make that happen. We evolved to make more effective tools to kill our food. If you don't like it then you should go put body armor on all the deer you can find.
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You can hunt on any public land as an out of stater as long as you have a tag...I think (but I'm not sure) if you can get a general license for the state. Or you might have to specify what areas you want to hunt. There are general elk tags here that allow you to Hunt Bull's or special drawing tags , if drawn allow you to get a cow (elk)...Look me up in the MA sometime and ill give you my Cell# we can talk. I'm on Ch 169 on rook when I'm on...<S> bro
KAM
TY Sir! I'll keep an eye open for you...
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Ok, try this: Enter into the Deer's domain with a Spear...and leave the Deer's domain WITH a Deer....then you can truly wear the "hunters badge" :t
That wouldn't actually be that tough, were it legal. I've been in a position to do it many times, but used an arrow instead. I'm not aware of any state where spears are legal for deer. Feral animals such as hogs, yes, but not deer. Same goes for the knife idea that someone else mentioned.
A few years ago I shot a deer with my muzzleloader from less than 10 feet away. It had no idea I was there, and a spear would have sufficed.
In terms of killing, an arrow and a spear kill basically the same way (a blade causing major hemorrage). The arrow and the spear are both tools used to deliver the object that matters, which is the blade. Is one worthy of more praise than the other? If I use a hammer to drive a nail, am I better for it than if I drove the nail with an pneumatic nail gun?
(That's really the extent of my comment on you post Dentin- the rest is just my own rambling).
As one who's done a huge amount of hunting, I think it's important to realize that the actual effort/technique used to kill the animal is a very small part of the hunt. Far less than 1% of the total effort exerted and time expended is used to squeeze the trigger, draw the bow, or whatever.
I have to admit though, I find the technique I use to hunt far more important (to me) than my "success rate". I'd relish the legal chance to hunt with a spear, or even to use the stone heads I've knapped for my arrows. That's a big part of why my hunting is mainly (not entirely) limited to falconry, muzzleloaders, and archery. I favor removing as much "modern technology" from my hunt as possible. I do that because I want to, not because I think it's any "better" than another person's legal methods. I also like to be able to turn the animals I hunt into many products other than food.
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Quote from: dentin on Yesterday at 09:51:49 AM
Ok, try this: Enter into the Deer's domain with a Spear...and leave the Deer's domain WITH a Deer....then you can truly wear the "hunters badge" Evil
That wouldn't actually be that tough, were it legal. I've been in a position to do it many times, but used an arrow instead. I'm not aware of any state where spears are legal for deer. Feral animals such as hogs, yes, but not deer. Same goes for the knife idea that someone else mentioned.
A few years ago I shot a deer with my muzzleloader from less than 10 feet away. It had no idea I was there, and a spear would have sufficed.
In terms of killing, an arrow and a spear kill basically the same way (a blade causing major hemorrage). The arrow and the spear are both tools used to deliver the object that matters, which is the blade. Is one worthy of more praise than the other?
Short answer: "More praise"?? yes, meaning, (to clarify my meaning :t ) more skill is required to "hunt" with a Spear, Bow&Arrow OR black powder....AND the preceding methods excludes the use of a "deer stand"/artificial lures, etc.
If I use a hammer to drive a nail, am I better for it than if I drove the nail with an pneumatic nail gun?
Tsk, tsk... :) Sure, you'd be "better for it" IF you were hunting with a hammer :rofl Well, hey, I thought it was funny. :cool:
(That's really the extent of my comment on you post Dentin- the rest is just my own rambling).
As one who's done a huge amount of hunting, I think it's important to realize that the actual effort/technique used to kill the animal is a very small part of the hunt. Far less than 1% of the total effort exerted and time expended is used to squeeze the trigger, draw the bow, or whatever.
No disagreement there. ^^^^
I have to admit though, I find the technique I use to hunt far more important (to me) than my "success rate". I'd relish the legal chance to hunt with a spear, or even to use the stone heads I've knapped for my arrows. That's a big part of why my hunting is mainly (not entirely) limited to falconry, muzzleloaders, and archery. I favor removing as much "modern technology" from my hunt as possible. I do that because I want to, not because I think it's any "better" than another person's legal methods. I also like to be able to turn the animals I hunt into many products other than food.
Correct me if I'm incorrect, but based on the above statement , your preferred methods of "hunting" is more in line with my definition than not.
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Correct me if I'm incorrect, but based on the above statement , your preferred methods of "hunting" is more in line with my definition than not.
I guess it would depend on what you mean by "my definition".
If you're referring to a more skillful method earning a higher "praise", sure I'd agree.
The difficulty factor is important to me, but I don't believe it needs to be, or should be, important to everyone. Hunting can be broken down into different "stages", that aren't necessarily progressed through, or progressed through in any set order. There's the guy who just simply wants to succeed, or the guy who wants to get his "limit", or only a "big" animal, or a certain color of animal, or who only wants to use a certain tool or weapon. I find myself mainly in that last category, although I had to progress through some of the other categories first. I get a kick out of working with old, hand-powered tools. That couldn't always be termed "efficient", and is actually probably "unnatural", and sometimes even unsafe. What other organism does things the "hard way" by choice, for enjoyment?
If you mean the definition mentioning "unnecessary" and "blood sport" (I'm not going back to look at it to get the specific wording) then no, I'm not in line with that, for a few reasons. It could be argued that the existance of humans isn't "necessary", so why would anything we do be "necessary"?
Besides being unnecessary, our lives impact other organisms, and cause their death, whether we intend it or not. Practically every facet of our lives impacts the other organisms sharing the planet. I'm typing on a computer using electricity derived from burning fossil fuels. The components of the computer were also made from petroleum products, and the gathering of materials to construct the components in all likelyhood caused habitat destruction and displaced animals (as did the building of my house, and the city I work in. I eat a lot of pre-packaged food. Beyond the food itself, the packaging process isn't environmentally friendly. I work for a food package manufacturer. We made enough plastic film last year in our fairly small facility to run a 5 foot wide strip around the earth over 11 times. Some of what we made was "waste" that we processed. All the "good" material ends up in a landfill after the final customer empties the potato chip's bag and throws it away. By helping make the product, I'm responsible for part of the environmental damage that occurs as a result. By eating the pre-packaged food I'm monetarily supporting the process as well. By eating food and going to work (burning gas in the process) I'm impacting the environment, and causing a lot more harm to it than I would in a lifetime of "hunting". I'm not planning to ever hunt polar bears, but my everyday, non-hunting actions could theoretically be helping them to go extinct. I need a job though, and my family needs to eat. But is the survival of my family "necessary"? Would our death have an effect on the world? Being unnecessary, are my actions illegitimate? And much of my use of products isn't even remotely justifiable. I watched a football game on TV this weekend, purely for enjoyment. What harm was done by the manufacture/transport/use of the TV, or the couch I sat on, or the house I was in, or the toilet I flushed, or...
I also think you're muddying the water with "deer stand" and "artificial lure". What constitutes the "terms" of difficulty/fairness you're looking for? I've never been big on lures for hunting, but their use is natural (many animals use lures). Many "natural" (non-artifical) lures are illegal. By "deer stand" do you mean pre-manufactured? Or location (in a tree, or on a hill, or behind a bush?) Use of terrain, and features there-on, is natural for any predator. And again, the tree stand (or even the lure) is simply a tool, made for a purpose, by a tool-making, tool-using organism, so therefore its use would be natural too, right? I shot a deer a few years back with a bow, from 1 row of standing corn into the next. I used the corn as a tool to hide my presence , movement, and sound, and used the wind as a tool to hide my scent. I was stationary, and let the deer come to me. Does that meet/exceed the "deer stand" definition? What if I'd have been in a tree? Using a device to aid my safety?
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Don't take any of that an attack on you, or your opinions Dentin.
I'm simply looking for a good, mind-opening conversation. May as well be informed, entertained, and enlightened as I use my environmentally unfreindly computer (which is probably still better than paper, right?)
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If you don't like it then you should go put body armor on all the deer you can find.
Ya think that would help??..naw, that would encourage the use of AP munitions. :t
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I don't think body armor stops centerfire rifle bullets anyway. My little .22-250 will put a tiny 55g bullet through 1/4 steel plate at 200 yds. My .270 puts a bigger hole through the same steel plate at 200 yds.
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I guess it would depend on what you mean by "my definition".
if you're referring to a more skillful method earning a higher "praise", sure I'd agree.
Really not thinking " praise".."skill" pretty much nails it. :) Once again, couldn't pass it up. :D
The difficulty factor is important to me, but I don't believe it needs to be, or should be, important to everyone.
In my opinion, a "true hunter" such as you appear to be, welcomes the challenge to pit his/her "hunting skills" against the quarry. The more rudimentary the weapons, the more it meets my definition of a "hunter".
I also hold the opinion that hunting (misnomer in the following sense) WITH A 30-06 or any high power rifle w/ a scope, sitting in a tree, or other elevated structure, using artificial scents, salt licks, feed of any kind (probably missed a few) becomes imho, a "blood sport". BTW, do a search on the preceding..you'll discover that I didn't use "selective definition"..or not. :)
Hunting can be broken down into different "stages", that aren't necessarily progressed through, or progressed through in any set order. There's the guy who just simply wants to succeed,
Simply for the sake of " succeeding" (we're talking hunting here) for the sport of it...makes no sense to me.
or the guy who wants to get his "limit"
See "succeeding" above..
or only a "big" animal, or a certain color of animal,
The above statement equates to a "trophy hunt"...AKA, Blood Sport...imho.
or who only wants to use a certain tool or weapon.
Like what..a Bazooka, Chainsaw, Bolo..sorry, crept up on me. :) sure I have no problem with someone wanting to use a "certain tool", just as long as its a "Spear, Bow&arrow, Muzzle Loader( no wheeled cannons), etc. :cool:
I find myself mainly in that last category, although I had to progress through some of the other categories first.
And why did you have to progress through some of the other categories ? I think I already know the answer. :)
I get a kick out of working with old, hand-powered tools. That couldn't always be termed "efficient", and is actually probably "unnatural", and sometimes even unsafe.
I Don't think "old hand-powered tools are "unnatural OR unsafe...my F.I.L (recently passed @ 93 yrs old) was an antique dealer for 70 yrs, and worked with MANY old tools, very skilled in their use, never had any problems. There is much to be said about using tried & true methods..AKA preserving the past...but not in this thread. :)
What other organism does things the "hard way" by choice, for enjoyment?
Well I did see a Chimp antagonize a dog by yanking on the dog's tail...does that qualify?
If you mean the definition mentioning "unnecessary" and "blood sport" (I'm not going back to look at it to get the specific wording) then no, I'm not in line with that, for a few reasons.
I think I've explained my opinion on the above quotes...and my arthritis is hindering my typing abilities, ergo I don't think I'll revisit my position.
It could be argued that the existance of humans isn't "necessary", so why would anything we do be "necessary"?
I suppose it could be argued, but not on a "hunting thread"....just a tad too subjective for me, at this time.
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I also think you're muddying the water with "deer stand" and "artificial lure". What constitutes the "terms" of difficulty/fairness you're looking for?
I do believe I've already answered that question.
I've never been big on lures for hunting, but their use is natural (many animals use lures).
I shot a deer a few years back with a bow, from 1 row of standing corn into the next. I used the corn as a tool to hide my presence , movement, and sound, and used the wind as a tool to hide my scent. I was stationary, and let the deer come to me. Does that meet/exceed the "deer stand" definition?
No comparison..you utilization involved natural vegetation, although the corn WAS planted by a human...still doesn't compare to a device constructed in a tree.
What if I'd have been in a tree? Using a device to aid my safety?
Depends, how safe is the safety device? I suppose you could, theoretically, fall from the tree and in the process hang yourself...and if this act was accomplished in the presence of a Deer, well you can just imagine the entertainment you just provided. :rofl
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Don't take any of that an attack on you, or your opinions Dentin.
I'm simply looking for a good, mind-opening conversation. May as well be informed, entertained, and enlightened as I use my environmentally unfreindly computer (which is probably still better than paper, right?)
Entertained..I might be able to dance around the edge of that..as far as the others..naw, to difficult. :)
Better than paper? You've most certainly heard of the many products derived from the Hemp plant, paper being one of the many. So no, it's(your computer) not better. :cool:
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I don't think body armor stops centerfire rifle bullets anyway. My little .22-250 will put a tiny 55g bullet through 1/4 steel plate at 200 yds. My .270 puts a bigger hole through the same steel plate at 200 yds.
Sure it does..to wit: type IV .30-06 =.30 M2 AP Armor Piercing, 166 grains (10.8 g) 2,850
If I'm not mistaken the 22-250 is around 3700 fps, so, that particular weapon probably would inflict some damage. Know anyone thats willing to test the theory? :)
More info at http://www.bulletproofme.com/NIJ_Test_Rounds_CHART.shtml