Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Kuhn on December 11, 2008, 05:38:49 PM

Title: P-47-D11
Post by: Kuhn on December 11, 2008, 05:38:49 PM
I wish the skin for the Checkertail P-47-D11 was available. Why would that ever be gone?   :cry
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Spikes on December 11, 2008, 05:41:26 PM
There's more than 15 skins for it, so they rotate them in and out.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Kuhn on December 11, 2008, 05:42:40 PM
I wish the skin for the Chekertail P-47-D11 was available. Why would that ever be gone?   :cry
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: rogerdee on December 12, 2008, 09:31:04 AM
you cant have everything,theres like 30 odd submitted d11 skins from what i can gather and we can only have 15. some have to be changed some get deleted and some get replaced.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: lowZX14 on December 12, 2008, 09:44:43 AM
 :furious  It'll come back around Kuhn, we'll just have to wait.  (He likes flying his jug pretending he's an actual 325th pilot) :noid
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: caldera on December 12, 2008, 09:45:46 AM
What happens if you save a skin and later, it is deleted from the 15?  Can you still use it?
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Kuhn on December 12, 2008, 11:13:43 AM
:furious  It'll come back around Kuhn, we'll just have to wait.  (He likes flying his jug pretending he's an actual 325th pilot) :noid

You better duck Lowboy!!!

And hey, this is the wish list isn't it?
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: lowZX14 on December 12, 2008, 11:17:47 AM
Yes it sure is, and yes I'd like to see the skin back as well. 
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Steel on December 12, 2008, 11:47:14 AM
Why cant we have more than 15 skins?

Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Seadog36 on December 19, 2008, 10:16:44 AM
We need D-11 razorbacks to carry ords. All early model jugs were retrofitted with underwing hardpoints by 1944. At least in late war  :salute
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 19, 2008, 10:20:01 AM
We need D-11 razorbacks to carry ords. All early model jugs were retrofitted with underwing hardpoints by 1944. At least in late war  :salute

Don't forget paddle-props and 70" MAP as a lightly perked option...
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Rebel on December 19, 2008, 11:51:41 AM
Don't forget paddle-props and 70" MAP as a lightly perked option...
:aok Hell yeah, man. 

Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Banshee7 on December 19, 2008, 12:00:03 PM
We need D-11 razorbacks to carry ords. All early model jugs were retrofitted with underwing hardpoints by 1944. At least in late war  :salute


field mod?
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Rebel on December 19, 2008, 12:37:40 PM

field mod?

D-11 introduced automatic water/methanol injection- previous models supported it, but it wasn't automatic. 

D-15 introduced the wing racks, which were also made wet for drop tank use.  The Paddle prop was also installed at the factory at this point.

Field mods for the razorbacks focused on turbo-supercharger wastegate manipulation- this was done to increase the boost to the -2800 up front, supplying more power.   Widewing has a great post in here regarding an interview with Bob Johnson.  He talks about it, and brags about his Thunderbolt and what she could do.

When 150 octane fuel was introduced, they could increase the boost even more to the tune of 78-80" hg.

Paddle props were sent to the theater with mod kits, I know that.  Basically, at the end of it- all Jugs in Europe were toting the paddle blade.

I don't know about wing rack mods.  I know some were removable, but as to which models I really don't know.  Widewing would know more. 
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: macerxgp on December 19, 2008, 03:06:18 PM
I'd love paddle props on Jugs. Apparently, a P47 with paddle props and WEP going it could match a 109 in a climb.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Krusty on December 19, 2008, 03:20:10 PM
I'm pretty sure it already can.

Those 190As are really abyssmal in their climb rates....
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Rebel on December 19, 2008, 03:22:37 PM
I'd love paddle props on Jugs. Apparently, a P47 with paddle props and WEP going it could match a 109 in a climb.

At high alt.  Not at low alt ;)   That has been the source of many a teeth gnashing.

Even now, without it's paddle blade or MP upgrade (both of which are verifiable field mods, btw), the D-11 itself starts to outclimb the 109G6 starting somewhere between 25 and 30K- I think it's 27K.  
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: macerxgp on December 19, 2008, 03:41:19 PM
At high alt.  Not at low alt ;)   That has been the source of many a teeth gnashing.

Even now, without it's paddle blade or MP upgrade (both of which are verifiable field mods, btw), the D-11 itself starts to outclimb the 109G6 starting somewhere between 25 and 30K- I think it's 27K.  

Who the hell even flys anything that high outside a MoM mission!? (Not an invitation to tell me you do, guys) IMHO, that statistic is irrelevant. The 109's loose performance at that alt due to their superchargers, not their props.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Rebel on December 19, 2008, 04:02:31 PM
Who the hell even flys anything that high outside a MoM mission!? (Not an invitation to tell me you do, guys) IMHO, that statistic is irrelevant. The 109's loose performance at that alt due to their superchargers, not their props.

Irrelevant?  Dude, the 47 is a total beast up there.  NOTHING comes close to it.    In FSO's, scenarios, and the like (not to mention Combat Tour when it was still being worked on), that's it's playground.

The 109's props weren't called into question.  The 47 D-11 doesn't have one, nor does it have a MP boost available like it should, simply because everything is modeled as "factory stock". 

Adding these two things to the D-11 will make it accelerate faster, climb better overall (making it even more dominant up high), and give it even more of a speed advantage. 

I don't think the designers at Republic had Aces High gameplay in mind when they were designing their machine to kill Germans at high altitude ;) 
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 19, 2008, 04:26:42 PM
Re-fitting with paddle blades was standard, so it should be available for razorbacks too by late-war.

Higher boost mods were common to the point of being nigh ubiquitous, but because still should be lightly perked IMO.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Rebel on December 19, 2008, 04:47:46 PM
Re-fitting with paddle blades was standard, so it should be available for razorbacks too by late-war.

Higher boost mods were common to the point of being nigh ubiquitous, but because still should be lightly perked IMO.

Eh, you could make an argument for a light perk for the 150 fuel (with a small perk to each barrel- i.e. a 25% load would be less then a 100% load), the paddle prop, and the aftermarket turbocharger mods.

As the standard is "factory stock" anything above and beyond that which is made available should be perkable.  I like the idea of a 150 octane paddle bladed super-turbocharged Jug storming into a furball, though. :) 


Not only that, but the perkies give this new super jug reason to be careful. 
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: ALLEN86 on December 21, 2008, 02:10:24 AM
the p47 was also fitted to carry 4000lbs of bomb ords later in the war. perhaps a double under the fuselage and one one each wing?
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: B4Buster on December 21, 2008, 03:10:45 PM
I'd love paddle props on Jugs. Apparently, a P47 with paddle props and WEP going it could match a 109 in a climb.

read an excerpt in a book from a pilot who had a mock dogfight with a spit 8 I belive it was. He said the spit was on his 6, so he pulled up in a zoom climb and easily pulled away from the spit.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 21, 2008, 03:47:37 PM
read an excerpt in a book from a pilot who had a mock dogfight with a spit 8 I belive it was. He said the spit was on his 6, so he pulled up in a zoom climb and easily pulled away from the spit.

Well, no. What Robert Johnson said was that the Spit9b he was mock dogfighting could "shoot past him" in a steady climb, but when he dove the Spit lost ground, and when he zoomed the Spit lost even more ground *until* they were both back to their steady climb speed, at which point the Spit began rapidly gaining again. He also found the Spit much inferior in rolling.

IIRC, basically what he did was do a high-speed zoom against a Spit, hammerhead, and come down straight at his canopy with the 8 machine guns all pointing at him. This is all well and good, and will work in AHII, except that most AHII pile-its, and I mean 90% of them, will pull up for a retarded M.A.D. HO pass with you if they have any speed left for vertical maneuvering at all.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: bj229r on December 21, 2008, 05:18:15 PM
At any rate, paddle prop not much help at 5k where all the fights are....could it even be a hindrance?
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 21, 2008, 05:20:51 PM
At any rate, paddle prop not much help at 5k where all the fights are....could it even be a hindrance?

Nah, it will improve thrust at low IAS at any alt. I think the prop difference is the main reason the D-11 climbs slower than D-25 despite being the lightest Jug in the bunch.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: B4Buster on December 21, 2008, 07:14:33 PM
Well, no. What Robert Johnson said was that the Spit9b he was mock dogfighting could "shoot past him" in a steady

You're right it was a Spit 9, not 8, but I didn't say anything about a steady climb, I did say zoom  :)
He said the spit was on his 6, so he pulled up in a zoom climb and easily pulled away from the spit.

Quoted from Robert S. Johnson:

"...We (the Spit 9B) flew togeather in formation, and then I decided to see just what this airplane had to is credit....I opened the throttle full and the Thunderbolt forged ahead. A moment later exhaust smoke poured from the Spit as the pilot came after me. He couldn't make it; the big Jug had a definate speed advantage. I grinned happily; I'd heard so much about this airplane that I really wanted to show the Thunderbolt to her pilot. The Jug kept pulling away from the Spitfire; suddenly I hauled back on the stick and lifted the nose. The Thunderbolt zoomed upward, soaring into the cloud-flecked sky. I looked out and back; the Spit was straining to match me, and barely able to hold his position..."

Keep in mind he wrote this before his plane was retrofitted with a paddle prop and a water injected engine. He went up against a Spit9B with these modifications again and there was no contest.

You definately know your stuff though BnZs
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 21, 2008, 07:27:13 PM
Buster,
FWIW, I agree that Johnson's account definitely depicts the Jug stacking up better against the Spit9 than is the typical case in AHII, albeit it is only one case with many unknown variables. As a general principle though, I'd say better mass/drag ratio/zoom climb does not *seem* to stack up well against higher power/weight in a Co-E state in-game.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: macerxgp on December 21, 2008, 07:31:12 PM
When I said that that statistic is irrelevant, I meant that it was an uneven comparison between the two aircraft because they weren't at similar performance levels at that altitudes. If I say that one plane out-climbs another, than that means that when they are at a level where performance degradation is NOT a factor, one plane will climb faster than the other. Meaning; a clean 109G6 and a clean P-47-D11 are traveling at 325 mph @ 15K altitude. They both nose up the same amount. Which one will climb faster/higher than the other? THAT is what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: B4Buster on December 21, 2008, 07:32:50 PM
With the paddle prop Johnson said no 190 or 109 ever outclimbed him again max
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 21, 2008, 07:52:13 PM
Welp, I went to DokGonzo's and looked at the climb numbers for 190A-5 and 109G-6 against P-47D-11 and P-47N (as kind of a surrogate for a D-11 with a paddle prop and 70" of MAP available.) Pretty close above 20K, Jug becoming superior above 25K. Considering that Johnson's P-47 also gave him a higher level speed, it indeed seems perfectly plausible that no 190 or 109 could get away from him by climbing at typical engaging altitudes during the period in which he flew.

That is not even considering the speculative high-alt performance for the relatively  lightweight D-11 with the paddle prop AND hotrodded for 70" MAP.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: B4Buster on December 21, 2008, 08:58:07 PM
Welp, I went to DokGonzo's and looked at the climb numbers for 190A-5 and 109G-6 against P-47D-11 and P-47N (as kind of a surrogate for a D-11 with a paddle prop and 70" of MAP available.) Pretty close above 20K, Jug becoming superior above 25K. Considering that Johnson's P-47 also gave him a higher level speed, it indeed seems perfectly plausible that no 190 or 109 could get away from him by climbing at typical engaging altitudes during the period in which he flew.

That is not even considering the speculative high-alt performance for the relatively  lightweight D-11 with the paddle prop AND hotrodded for 70" MAP.

interesting BnZs, would like to see what a paddle prop water injected jug could do versus other planes in the MA
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: Rebel on December 22, 2008, 11:14:23 AM
interesting BnZs, would like to see what a paddle prop water injected jug could do versus other planes in the MA

It wouldn't be spectacular- we're not talking about a Spit XIV, here.  But it's vertical capability, as well as it's ability to regain E would be significantly helped- these two bonuses would help to "cover up" the Jug's biggest weak spots, thus making it a more complete high performance package. 

Toss 150 octane and 70" hg, though, and it helps even more. 
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: B4Buster on December 22, 2008, 01:00:56 PM
It wouldn't be spectacular- we're not talking about a Spit XIV, here.  But it's vertical capability, as well as it's ability to regain E would be significantly helped- these two bonuses would help to "cover up" the Jug's biggest weak spots, thus making it a more complete high performance package. 

Toss 150 octane and 70" hg, though, and it helps even more. 

Oh yeah, my guess is with the added speed is it wouldn't turn as well but would be a real nice E fighter like a Dora
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 22, 2008, 08:46:01 PM
Oh yeah, my guess is with the added speed is it wouldn't turn as well but would be a real nice E fighter like a Dora

Ummm...added horsepower in and of itself does *nothing* to reduce turning ability. You don't *have* to firewall the throttle.  :D
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: B4Buster on December 22, 2008, 08:48:31 PM
Ummm...added horsepower in and of itself does *nothing* to reduce turning ability. You don't *have* to firewall the throttle.  :D

Trust me I'm not one to firewall the throttle but generally if it's faster, the turning radius is larger. Simple physics
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: BnZs on December 22, 2008, 09:18:05 PM
Trust me I'm not one to firewall the throttle but generally if it's faster, the turning radius is larger. Simple physics

A D-11 with the paddle and/or capable of pulling 70" would represent a thrust increase without a significant weight increase...the added thrust would in fact allow it to sustain a better turn than an identical craft with less thrust.

Speaking of speed, IIRC the paddle prop in and of itself actually cuts ~5 mph off the top end, the toothpick design being more efficient at high speed, albeit I think this would be a worthwhile sacrifice if it improves the D-11's climb and acceleration as much as some accounts would seem to claim.
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: B4Buster on December 23, 2008, 07:50:08 AM
A D-11 with the paddle and/or capable of pulling 70" would represent a thrust increase without a significant weight increase...the added thrust would in fact allow it to sustain a better turn than an identical craft with less thrust.

That makes sense I suppose, more power to whip it around in the turns
Title: Re: P-47-D11
Post by: bj229r on December 23, 2008, 07:16:46 PM
I'm waiting for WW to weigh in!