Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Spikes on December 15, 2008, 05:28:34 PM
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Hi all, I've been wondering about the stall limiter...I've turned it off a few times and well, naturally, I stall out more and get into flat spins. With it off, basically it just does not limit you in say, a vertical? I fly the 38 and F4U mostly, would it be advisable to try turning it off again? I've been trying to learn more about it and see what is best for me...
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Keep it off, learn to fly again. Youll die, but believe in Krishna, and you can reup
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take the training wheels off and you'll find out what your plane can really do :aok
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Stall limiter will ignore any stick input that would cause any point on your wings to reach stall conditions. Under most conditions, you'll unable to get max maneuvering performance out of a plane with it on.
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I noticed the biggest difference in the 38 when i turned it off, next would have been F4U. It only took a couple days to get used to it.
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Just a little addition...
When in the 38 turn off combat trim. You only have to trim the elevator. Helps immensely.
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Take it from someone who wishes he'd turned it off from the beginning -- TURN IT OFF.
Look at what Murdr said and think about it. Two huge problems come from stall limiter:
1. YOUR airplane will stop turning, banking, nosing down, whatever SOONER than your unlimited opponent. He gets to make tighter turns than you do, so YOU'RE getting handicapped by having stall limiter on.
2. (What I think is even more important) = You don't get the chance to "feel" the limits of your airplane, so you don't learn to ride the edge of control. You don't get to appreciate when you're cutting it close, and when you have more maneuverability than you think. It deprives you of some immersion, but even more it keeps you from feeling things about your plane's capabilities, SO you have a harder time instinctively knowing when you won't be able to cut a corner or get a shot.
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The most important thing is to be smooth with the stick no jerky motions ( insert huge amounts of LOL ). Fly with it off all the time the rewards are great :salute
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3 step program:
1) Educate yourself on how to recover from a bad stall quickly, because you will stall (and most likely while in combat), and you can recover from them quickly if you know what to do.
2) Turn off the stall limiter and learn to fly your planes to the bleeding edge of a stall but not stall out.
3) Profit.
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Thanks for the info guys. Is there anything I should do for a little practice? Such as go into the TA and spawn at those 30K bases or anything? (Sometimes I just like to tool around with something new before diving in)
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I wouldn't go to the 30k bases - the high altitudes make manouvering more difficult, and losing control easier. You might want to up from a dive-bombing base and use the air-spawn, but then you will start with engine off and falling from 10k or so. I'm not sure if there's a way to start at whatever altitude you want in the offline arena, but that might be an option.
But for sure go to the TA - just take off and fly around a little with the limiter off and get used to it as you climb to about 15k - then practice some stalls and recoveries. Give a holler on Country if you need some help - there's usually someone around willing to assist.
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Thanks for the info guys. Is there anything I should do for a little practice? Such as go into the TA and spawn at those 30K bases or anything? (Sometimes I just like to tool around with something new before diving in)
Next time you see me online, give me a shout. We'll go to the TA and play follow the leader and see if you can stick on my six the entire time I'm hard maneuvering without stalling out. We'll keep at it until you can maneuver without getting into a stall.
Here's a tip that does help...listen to your stall buzzer. As it increases in pitch, the closer you are to an accelerated stall and just ease up on the stick a little. Also, practice into getting into accelerated stalls. This way you can identify the beginning of a stall and recover before it becomes a liability.
ack-ack
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i dont have it on i can crank the turns to stalling and i now know when to stop pushing it but i still ocasionaly get into flat spins
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I wouldn't go to the 30k bases - the high altitudes make manouvering more difficult, and losing control easier. You might want to up from a dive-bombing base and use the air-spawn, but then you will start with engine off and falling from 10k or so. I'm not sure if there's a way to start at whatever altitude you want in the offline arena, but that might be an option.
But for sure go to the TA - just take off and fly around a little with the limiter off and get used to it as you climb to about 15k - then practice some stalls and recoveries. Give a holler on Country if you need some help - there's usually someone around willing to assist.
The main reason was so I didn't have to climb. :P Mainly so I had speed and could practice verticals in it.
Next time you see me online, give me a shout. We'll go to the TA and play follow the leader and see if you can stick on my six the entire time I'm hard maneuvering without stalling out. We'll keep at it until you can maneuver without getting into a stall.
Here's a tip that does help...listen to your stall buzzer. As it increases in pitch, the closer you are to an accelerated stall and just ease up on the stick a little. Also, practice into getting into accelerated stalls. This way you can identify the beginning of a stall and recover before it becomes a liability.
ack-ack
I'll keep a look out for you, thanks!
By the way, what would you consider accelerated stalls?
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Keep it off. Everyone goes thru a "spin 'o death phase" until they learn the basics of stall recovery (or learn to avoid stalling in the first place).
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Keep it off. Everyone goes thru a "spin 'o death phase" until they learn the basics of stall recovery (or learn to avoid stalling in the first place).
Well, I know how to recover from a stall...but I find it easier, obviously with it on. Guess I'll just dive in next time I get to play.
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Well, I know how to recover from a stall...but I find it easier, obviously with it on. Guess I'll just dive in next time I get to play.
with it on... it's automagic... you *can't* stall enough to need to recover, you just wallow around til u right yourself, but you won't stall.
also not all planes have the same stall conditions/warnings/clues or recovery... but the generic advice has been given i'm sure. there's even a pop-up box when you login sometimes explaining this.
bottom line tho'... with the limiter on, you're also limiting yourself if you're slow.
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OFF.
You'll never find the ragged edge with it on.
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Stall limiter off gives a much tighter turn. However, you have to keep your stick calibrated as perfectly as possible. Any wobble and it's over.
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The main reason was so I didn't have to climb. :P Mainly so I had speed and could practice verticals in it.I'll keep a look out for you, thanks!
By the way, what would you consider accelerated stalls?
Anytime you put your plane at such an angle that the lack of airflow over the wings no longer provides sufficient lift. At least that's the basic layman's definition, I'm sure someone will stop by and give a more scientific definition.
Have you ever flown at a high rate of speed and then put your plane at such an angle of attack (AoA) that you hear the stall buzzer going off and you notice that one of your wings has lost lift? That in a nutshell is an accelerated stall. Losing lift due to a high AoA, so stalls just don't happen when your plane is to slow that the airflow over the wings no longer provides any lift, it can happen at any speed.
One of the things I tell new players is to hop in a plane and go offline and fly lufberry circles, progressively pulling the stick back to make the turn tighter and tighter with each revolution until they enter into an accelerated stall. I tell them to keep practicing and soon they'll start to recognize the point where the plane's wing will start to lose lift and they'll be able to react fast enough to correct it before they enter into a full accelerated stall. Then I tell them to repeat it but this time, ride the edge as long as they can without entering into a stall. Soon after a couple hours of practice, most new players will be able to ride the edge of an accelerated stall safely and able to recover quick enough when they start to enter into one. YMMV.
ack-ack
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Question....
What stall mode is this? Flying a 51 B I notice when I am pulling out of the downward section of a loop (or any downward manuever) there is a wierd stall. The plane stalls while trying to drop a wing and then starts turning harder. Its a constant fight to keep wings level with slight downward elevator to avoid a complete stall. Ive seen the G meter jump nearly 1 G while doing a 3 G turn. Typically this all happens at very low airspeed with alot of flaps out. I dont know if its a wierd stall process or a small FM glitch. Was curious if any knew?
Steel
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ahhh the snap roll of doom. I fly 109's and they have a serious tendency toward that especialy in the conditions you described. Like everyone is saying about the stall limiter its the same just takes getting used to and learning ur plane(s). The cool thing is that once you are used to countering this seemingly suicidal tendency of torque it can really work to your favor. I (who am no great stick) have won some fights due to being able to just keep my plane from augering while being at 200 or less feet off the ground going less than 100 mph. All that said there was about a week worth of snap roll to augers that did temporarily effect my mental health.
throttle management and flaps are a big part of it as well. At least that is the case for me and my 109k4.
off topic; That sounds like the makings of a good song. "Me and my 109"
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Angle of Attack (AoA)is the angular relationship between the chord line of the airfoil (wing in this case) and the relative wind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_attack
Every airfoil has a critical AoA. Exceeding that critical angle interrupts the airflow over the top of the airfoil resulting in a loss of lift, commonly called a stall.
An accelerated stall is any stall occurring at greater than 1 G on the airframe.
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Not going to read all the posts... just yet
Can't tell you how many people I have helped find that blasted thing and had them turn it off. I suppose if your new it could come in handy but the moment you get your stick set up properly and understand the physics of flying OFF IT SHOULD GO.
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If you want to hang with the best turn it off.
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What would be a proper stick setup for this. I've found that with it off, anything I fly falls out of the sky like a brick and I have a hard time believing anyone can fly with the damn thing off in any event. I also don't see a lot of folks falling out of the sky whilst fighting them so I wonder how many people actually fly with it off.
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Bubba, the first day or so sucks. You just have to accept the fact there are gonna be some unpleasant surprises at first but really it only takes a couple days and you will start getting the feel for it. After that it becomes second nature.
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If I'm reading what the "arena settings" tab in the menu has to tell me offline, it would appear the stall limiter holds your airplane 2 degrees short of the critical AoA. Which is quite a bit when it comes to milking max turn performance out of a plane.
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What would be a proper stick setup for this. I've found that with it off, anything I fly falls out of the sky like a brick and I have a hard time believing anyone can fly with the damn thing off in any event. I also don't see a lot of folks falling out of the sky whilst fighting them so I wonder how many people actually fly with it off.
Go offline and practice for a few hours until you can turn as tight as you can until you can do at least 5 revolutions without entering into an accelerated stall. Afterwards, get some altitude and practice again, this time get yourself into an accelerated stall and start practicing how to recover from them. Pay close attention to the point of departure and make sure that you memorize the signs of the stall so you can recover before you fully enter into it.
Practice, practice, practice!
ack-ack
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What would be a proper stick setup for this. I've found that with it off, anything I fly falls out of the sky like a brick and I have a hard time believing anyone can fly with the damn thing off in any event. I also don't see a lot of folks falling out of the sky whilst fighting them so I wonder how many people actually fly with it off.
The proper stick setup depends on the stick you have, and how you wield it. If you're a bit "ham-fisted" and tend to slam the stick all around, you really should try to be more gentle and make smaller, more smooth movements - you'll be amazed at how well you fly after you retrain yourself. You can also go into the controller setup in AH2 and play with the scaling and/or dampening of the joystick axes.
Proper calibration in Windows and AH2 is critical, smooth movements while in flight is equally so. Even if you are able to adjust the stick settings to make up for being "ham-fisted", you should really get into the habit of being smooth. Adjusting the game to make up for being heavy-handed on the stick really cripples your ability to maneuver.
The use of rudders also helps with turning, but it sounds like your problem is over-controlling the stick.
The first thing I did when I fired up AH2 is turn off the stall limiter. I stalled all the time, but it didn't take long to settle down and now I can ride the edge until I either get out-flown (happens more than I'd like), or I get stupid and pull just that little extra bit to try to force a shot I should pass on, instead of working towards a better one.
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i can recover if i am atleast 2000 ft if not i crash and burn