Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: VonMessa on December 22, 2008, 09:11:52 AM
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From what I have always gathered. Vulching aircraft on the runway or the re-arm pad has been frowned upon in the same vein as pilots bailing over the runway and shooting up folks with their .45, and other gamey tactics.
To clarify, I am specifically talking about aircraft with gear down (wheels on tarmac), either re-arming(stopped) or taxiing to/from the runway, not planes involved in the act of landing/taking off (wheels off ground).
Could someone clarify this for me, please? (preferably a CM for a concrete answer, but will entertain the opinions of others)
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70% of the plane has to be on rearm pad i think. :rock
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I wouldn't do it and I doubt my squad would get the opportunity. The only time I could see it concievably happening is if we were attacking an airbase and we found the defenders rearming. Still they should have some cover doing so and since they would be the threat I'd go after the ones in the sky.
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It's been my understanding that vulching is valid - as long as it's from an airplane and not a downed pilot on the ground with his sidearm. If a player chooses to land/rearm at a forward base that's under attack, he's taking a chance and should be ready to tower rather than lose his plane to a vulch.
The rules only stipulate that walking to a field and shooting pilots with your sidearm is forbidden - they say nothing about vulching.
- Pilots are expected to do their "fighting" from the AC or GV's that they have been assigned to by their CiC. Once you have been shot down, you should be heading to you tower. Shooting of Enemy AC with your .45 while they are on the ground is not allowed. You may be suspended for doing so.
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A bailed pilot will be ejected, or worse, for using his 45 on the field because he's invisible until it's too late, and there are no counter measures, so it falls into the category of griefing the event.
This is quite different from vulching, so provide cover for each other or move to a field further from the enemy.
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We have had Admin CM’s (the ones who design the events) state that vulching is not allowed. That is rare.
Under normal circumstances if you catch an enemy plane or planes on the field rearming I would be the first inline to dive in and get as many as possible.
Unless mentioned in the rules for a particular event Vulching in FSO is perfectly acceptable.
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Copy all.
Just needed a clarification.
Guess I gotta be better at covering the boss's arse in the future :noid
Thanks all.
:salute
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Bailed pilots shooting up planes on the rearm pad is banned. Basically because it is not realistic (among other reasons). A real base would be full of troops and such and a lone bailed pilot armed with a .45 would never get to the re-arm pad, it would be suicide. In AH a lone pilot can just waltz on over to it unless there is an enemy GV present that wants to take him out.
As for planes vulching other planes on the ground. Yes, except in rare cases where a CM stated a rule no vulching, it is allowed. This is why most squads do 1 or 2 things (normally both).
1) Leave a cap in place and have your pilots rearm in shifts. The CAP protects you while you are vulnerable on the ground.
2) Choose a base that is little distant from the fighting. Basically just watching the map here to see what is blinking and such and also picking a safe base that is a little bit back from the main front. Landing at a base that is right on the front lines or at base that is a designated target is usually very risky.
My squad usually does both.
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We were pretty far back, at a base that was not under attack (when we started landing guys to re-arm)
As the guys were going over the gate, it started flashing. We did have cap up (to be safe), but I failed miserably, I guess :furious
A (lone wolf) Jug came out of the clouds at 10-12K, dove the field, shot up one of our guys, and ran like hell.
Lucky SOB if ya ask me. All the ack was up and everything. None of us could give chase for long as we were out of fuel. I, personally, ran out and had to glide in and (miraculously) had enough momentum to make the runway and subsequent turn to the re-arm pad without hitting anything.
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Nice job, that's hard to do even with the engine running.
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I don't think that vulching really belongs in FSO.
I can understand it occuring at an airfield that is on the list of valid targets, and I can understand it at fields where jets are landing or taking off.
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"Vulching" was a very real part of the tactical air war. Obviously the Germans were much more at risk based on circumstance but it happened on all fronts. In fact trying to time an attack to catch planes on the ground was common. Look no farther then Midway to find the "ultimate vulch"...
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I don't think that vulching really belongs in FSO.
I can understand it occuring at an airfield that is on the list of valid targets, and I can understand it at fields where jets are landing or taking off.
Interesting...
Vulching shouldn't be allowed except for killing jets? :huh
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Interesting...
Vulching shouldn't be allowed except for killing jets? :huh
If I understand history correctly, that was actually a mission type to kill the jets, since they didn't have a lot of success catching them when they were at speed.
FSOs are restricted to 2 hours.. you can't really mirror all the different stages of flight status during that time.. and certainly not surprise attacks. I just don't feel that vulching needs to be part of it either.
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Maybe we should do it just like WWII and just fly around the bases waiting for the enemy to come up and fight a fair fight. :rofl :rofl.
In war Vulching is the preferred method to fight the enemy. The more enemy killed on the ground the less killing your fellow pilots. I say shoot them with every bullet you have and drop a bomb on their carcass on the way out. :aok
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Maybe we should do it just like WWII and just fly around the bases waiting for the enemy to come up and fight a fair fight. :rofl :rofl.
In war Vulching is the preferred method to fight the enemy. The more enemy killed on the ground the less killing your fellow pilots. I say shoot them with every bullet you have and drop a bomb on their carcass on the way out. :aok
You're still a charmer Hammy. ;)
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Lucky SOB if ya ask me. All the ack was up and everything. None of us could give chase for long as we were out of fuel.
That does happen. Also remember the ack is turned down in FSO. A single AC could dive in on a field, make a single straffing run, shoot up some AC on the ground, kill or damage them (so they can't reup) and run for home. Since it is turned down the two items ghostdancer mentioned are all the more important.
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I look at it this way....
If you fail to leave CAP above the field you choose to rearm at, or choose a field closer to the frontlines, you're putting yourself at risk.
Now the main reason you're doing so, is to gain an advantage over the enemy, in that you don't have to fly as far to rearm, and thus enter the fight that much quicker.
I see absolutely NO reason whatsoever to not attack aircraft on the ground if they've chosen to not take precautions to prevent such an attack. You're taking a risk, to gain something. If you are willing to take that risk, you need to accept the consequences.
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If there were no planes flying cap for the guys rearmers, It'd be smart to vultch them
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It might be a risk if the ack wasnt less then half of what it is in the MA.
A cap is useless unless there is 6 or so capping for 1 or 2 on the ground. And small squads are screwed entirely. Alot of the time you cant count on an friendly squad because they almost always have there own orders and agenda's.
This is not real war. It is a game in which dog fighting rules supreme above all else. If you take away the dogfight then you take away most of the fun and excitement on which this game is built.
It may just be the ravings of a lunatic. But that is my humble opinion.
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This is not real war, but in Aces High it's as close as it gets. If you land at a field on the edge of battle and expect the enemies to simply fly by and wave then it's easy to see who's at fault. I would believe that MOST squads in the FSO practice some form of CAP cover with any number of fighters in order to re-arm during the FSO.
One point that has been made several times is that re-arming further away from the front lessens the chance of being strafed. However, it's not guaranteed. Fighter sweeps sometimes go real deep into enemy territory to shoot down opposition so that the bombers can make their way to the target. On the way home, that same sweep may elect to drop down to 15k and look around for the ones coming home. If they're on the tarmac, I don't see why they can't shell them and prevent any further threats.
I believe a lot of us have fallen victim to the "vulch" in the FSO (I have, several times) but to discredit those who take the opportunity is unnecessary. It was a tactic used the WWII and the FSO is supposed to be as real as it gets.
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This is not real war, but in Aces High it's as close as it gets.
Hahahahhaha, sorry but no.
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EDIT: Nevermind, not really one for feeding trolls. :aok
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This is not real war. It is a game in which dog fighting rules supreme above all else. If you take away the dogfight then you take away most of the fun and excitement on which this game is built.
I agree with the principle as it pertains to the MA, but this is a special events...event :D
The purpose (as I like to think of it) of the FSO is for [mostly] historical battles with squad tactics and coordinated battleplans. This in and of itself requires some degree of dogfighting, but it isn't always "supreme above all else". Just one pilot's opinion. :)
If the purpose is to win the frame for your side, then vulching is completely valid if the opportunity presents itself. As has been said before, re-arming at a forward base is (and should be) a risky endevour.
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I agree with the principle as it pertains to the MA, but this is a special events...event :D
The purpose (as I like to think of it) of the FSO is for [mostly] historical battles with squad tactics and coordinated battleplans. This in and of itself requires some degree of dogfighting, but it isn't always "supreme above all else". Just one pilot's opinion. :)
If the purpose is to win the frame for your side, then vulching is completely valid if the opportunity presents itself. As has been said before, re-arming at a forward base is (and should be) a risky endevour.
Yup. :D
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Kuhn should know, he lost his 262 like that in Frame 1 didn't ya buddy? And what lesson did we learn? Fly far far away to rearm. :devil
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My squad always has the green light for vulching. We just regulate it by not counting vulches towards internal awards.*
* Some exceptions may apply.
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How many squads find themselves in a position to vulch in FSO? I can't remember ever having the chance.
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In a recent 8th Air Force event, I was flying a Fw 190A5 and had my engine oil shot out. I made it all the way to the runway, broke my gear off and skidded to a halt on the runway.
As soon as my engine died, I could hear an engine behind me. A Typhoon had been following me and strafed me as soon as I came to stop.
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As soon as my engine died, I could hear an engine behind me. A Typhoon had been following me and strafed me as soon as I came to stop.
Which is why (even under normal circumstances), I usually have the text buffer up and .ef already typed in as my gear touches the ground. Then all I do is hit Enter as soon as I'm stopped and don't waste time getting to the tower. :D
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Kuhn should know, he lost his 262 like that in Frame 1 didn't ya buddy? And what lesson did we learn? Fly far far away to rearm. :devil
I did that and you know it Low. Now stop trying to make your idol look bad. :D
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Most FSO squads I have worked with will provide CAP for another squad if asked. I have never seen anyone leave friendlies open for attack if they can help it. I would love to find a rearm pad full when i had a couple of 1000lbers under my plane too. :t
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Landing and re-arming with 1/2 the squad providing CAP until you take off again to cover them...eyes peeled, looking up, watching to see if the base starts to flash.....or being the guy who finds these guys and kills them...its part of what FSO is for me. There is risk at re-arming...do you want to chance it? You can tower out, but the night is over. Frankly I see towering more gamey, than the guy catching the planes on the ground.
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Maybe in the future we will have to unhook from our harness, pop the canopy, climb out of our aircraft and run for the nearest trench or bunker. ;)
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Stranger thinks have happened in the gaming world ;)
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Maybe in the future we will have to unhook from our harness, pop the canopy, climb out of our aircraft and run for the nearest trench or bunker. ;)
Now that would be cool!
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Until the cord from my headphones snapped me back or tripped me, gotta remember to take those things off.
On second thought, I might do that next time I play so the wife will look at me like I'm an even bigger idiot.
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Maybe in the future we will have to unhook from our harness, pop the canopy, climb out of our aircraft and run for the nearest trench or bunker. ;)
I don't know about that. Every time I try to get a close-up of my cockpit, there isn't anyone flying :noid
:D
Thanks all for clarify it. Now that I know, I won't pass up on a chance next time I get one. :devil
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Maybe in the future we will have to unhook from our harness, pop the canopy, climb out of our aircraft and run for the nearest trench or bunker. ;)
Seen that in a movie once, didn't end well.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/toko.jpg)
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Seen that in a movie once, didn't end well.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/toko.jpg)
Yeah ever so true....
BTW, that's me in the background there. :o
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BTW, that's me in the background there. :o
The mud??
Or is that manure??? :confused: