Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Bronk on December 30, 2008, 10:34:46 AM
-
With the new (well not so new) fad of horde noe avoiding the fight base taking. I say remove the minimum alt requirement for bar dar. At least make it show when x amount of ac are in a sector.
That is what this game is about.. the fight....not on how to avoid it.
-
I don't see this thread ending well...
If your baiting, its a good one. :aok
That being said, I really don't like this idea. If you insist on a large fight, go do some furballing -- never hard to find. Taking away NOE is removing a fun element of the game for no real purpose. Additionally, most people who care that much about "the fight" could care less about losing a base in the first place.
-
I don't see this thread ending well...
If your baiting, its a good one. :aok
That being said, I really don't like this idea. If you insist on a large fight, go do some furballing -- never hard to find. Taking away NOE is removing a fun element of the game for no real purpose. Additionally, most people who care that much about "the fight" could care less about losing a base in the first place.
Please explain to me the fun of taking an undefended base? Do the toolsheds fight back that well?
-
Against a country that is quasi-cognisant, it won't be undefended. Additionally, half the fun is generally in the flight to the base, not in getting torn up by ack and WW's :) This is especially true in the very hilly maps.
Conducting a well-run noe in a small efficient strike force with a good group of friends is a very enjoyable experience in my mind. Granted, some NOE raids are just gratuitous mobs, but those happen at any altitude.
To be frank, I don't see how taking away NOE stealth would improve gameplay or realism in any way. Just my opinion.
-
To be frank, I don't see how taking away NOE stealth would improve gameplay or realism in any way. Just my opinion.
Improve game play..... hmm no more sitting waiting for a base to flash to find a fight. LOOK a huge bar dar fun to be had.
Realism???? 1 guy controlling 3 buff and slaved guns ...realism? Check how often US fighters carried 1000 lb bombs. Shall I go on.
There are concessions a plenty on realism to enhance gameplay.
I'd settle for no noe on big maps.....small ones less places to hide.
-
Improve game play..... hmm no more sitting waiting for a base to flash to find a fight. LOOK a huge bar dar fun to be had.
Realism???? 1 guy controlling 3 buff and slaved guns ...realism? Check how often US fighters carried 1000 lb bombs. Shall I go on.
There are concessions a plenty on realism to enhance gameplay.
I'd settle for no noe on big maps.....small ones less places to hide.
Are you really gonna tell me you need to wait for a base to flash now to find a fight? :rofl
I never said the game was realistic as is now, simply made the point that we don't need to detract any more from it.
-
Are you really gonna tell me you need to wait for a base to flash now to find a fight? :rofl
I've seen maps where you had to. Go to ew or mw you have to wait for a base to flash to find the enemy at times.
What''s next?
-
How much NOE hording do you see going on in EW and MW?
-
To some, taking bases (undefended or not) is their way of having fun. If you were to get rid of alt minimums just so you can find them easier, it is forcing them to play the game your way - which has been said time and time again by the HTC staff, is not what the game is all about or will ever become.
-
POTW take bases without going NOE all the time, we by far dont have the best sticks or the most pilots but when we work together are radio communication helps and gives us the advantage.
-
Think of it this way, if the element of surprise is so overwellming that there is no way to defend against, then that is the path of least resistance, and hence will become the primary mode of attack. That is the state of affairs as it stood previously with big maps.
Now there are NOE raids that do not cause this, I.E. NOE raids to acheive singular objectives, I.E. hitting cities, factories, possibly 1 open field deep in enemy territory. But if all objectives can be taken by NOE raids, IT creates non defensible game play.
2nd it easy to say, well people should just defend then. Think about what it really takes to defend against NOE raids, and do you really want to do that defense.
To defend successfully at NOE raids, you need more than 1 player.
2nd to defend against them you have to sit in the tower, waiting for the base to flash, and then up soon as it does.
Does that defense sound fun to you ? I.E. do you really want to just wait in tower for something that might or might not occur? Sure if you new a NOE mission was otw, but didn't know where it might be fun. But not where you don't even know if one is going to occur.
Hence what we are talking about is simply balance. I see where NOE raids can be fun, but we have to have a system where they do not become the path of least resistance for base capture.
HiTech
-
How much NOE hording do you see going on in EW and MW?
LOL go to ew....all ya see.
-
To some, taking bases (undefended or not) is their way of having fun. If you were to get rid of alt minimums just so you can find them easier, it is forcing them to play the game your way - which has been said time and time again by the HTC staff, is not what the game is all about or will ever become.
The base is still there... take it.
ZOMG I r forcing joo to fight peoplzez...In an MMO.. the humanity.......the horror...
Ohh and BTW HT has stated the game is about the fight. Base taking is just a tool to get people to fight.
have fun with that little tid bit. :aok
Edit: I'm not forcing you to fight my fight. I would however like you to fight period. :aok
-
Ohh and BTW HT has stated the game is about the fight. Base taking is just a tool to get people to fight.
Thats where GV and Buffs come into gameplay....to promote Air Combat.
As for the OP: "Brilliant!"
-
Take it up directly with the man who has thus far chosen not to change it, at least not right away.
-
No ... unlike all the other b-29 other gimme gimme wishes. This actually addresses the current game situation. You are free to post reasoning for or against it. Unlike others I welcome the dissenting opinion of it.
-
gavagai
The bonus to this is people like yourself who wish for more high alt gameplay. Think of it.. heavies actually coming in at designed alts...with escorts no less.
Zomg teh realism. ;)
-
but in reality, isn't there such a thing as flying under the radar, I know it's an expression so it had to have been true at one time...
and WWII radar was very primative, so just be happy that the game lets you know as much as it does I.E. friendlies every where on the map and enemies when they are within the radar ring, not to mention dar bars to give you an estimate of how many on either side.
come on now, thats more than enough of an advantage, and it's definatly beyond historically acurate. I've seen many NOE missions fail, it's not like its an unstoppable force, the only hard part is getting people together to help you, but thats hard to do no matter what you're trying to acomplish in this game.
-
gavagai
The bonus to this is people like yourself who wish for more high alt gameplay. Think of it.. heavies actually coming in at designed alts...with escorts no less.
Zomg teh realism. ;)
That's some of the most fun gameplay I ever find in Aces High. :aok
-
NOE by a small force needs the element of surprise to have a chance to take the base. With a limited number of aircraft, it takes a bit of time to get all the town buildings down, during which time even a single or two determined uppers can often thwart the attack. Kill the goon, or take down one attacker each time you up, and a 5 person NOE raid disolves quickly.
Take away the NOE option, there is a group of people whose fun you just negatively impacted. Not good IMO.
But I don't think this is the type of raid the OP is talking about, because the small raid can and often is defended against successfully. The monster, 20 110s and 10 goons escorted by 30 Nikis raids are a horse of a different color . . .
But now ask yourself -- if you take away the option of a 5-6 player / small squad NOE raid, what is the next logical step? It would seem to me the next step would be that several small squads that used to do NOE raids would instead band together and come in as one of those monster raids . . .
So, the net unintended consequence of this idea, IMO, will be more hordes and hording behavior, not less. I personally don't think that would be a good thing.
-
NOE by a small force needs the element of surprise to have a chance to take the base. With a limited number of aircraft, it takes a bit of time to get all the town buildings down, during which time even a single or two determined uppers can often thwart the attack. Kill the goon, or take down one attacker each time you up, and a 5 person NOE raid disolves quickly.
Take away the NOE option, there is a group of people whose fun you just negatively impacted. Not good IMO.
But I don't think this is the type of raid the OP is talking about, because the small raid can and often is defended against successfully. The monster, 20 110s and 10 goons escorted by 30 Nikis raids are a horse of a different color . . .
But now ask yourself -- if you take away the option of a 5-6 player / small squad NOE raid, what is the next logical step? It would seem to me the next step would be that several small squads that used to do NOE raids would instead band together and come in as one of those monster raids . . .
So, the net unintended consequence of this idea, IMO, will be more hordes and hording behavior, not less. I personally don't think that would be a good thing.
"At least make it show when x amount of ac are in a sector." From the op.
-
I'm not at all in favor of NOE missions but here is my idea to make it a little more difficult.
Change the radar view from 500' to 100' and disable ALL autolevel keys below 500'. This way, if you want to go NOE, you will have to work a little.
-
Why wait for a flashing base. Why not go and start flashing one yourself. Pretty sure the fight will come to you eventually.
I like NOE missions. They're a lot of fun if not exciting. Sometimes they are not that successful, especially if a wayward enemy spots it coming and alerts the troops, then the element of surprise is gone and the NOE mission has a "welcoming committee" to deal with.
Changing the radar ceiling really doesn't need changing. Not everyone likes or participates in NOE missions. I have found that flying on the stick rather than using auto-pilot especially in rolling countryside is a challenge in itself. I have seen a few NOE missions where up to half of the force is lost because of tree and hills....that's half the fun IMHO.
-
No to this idea. No viable reason has been put forward to make a change.
-
No to this idea. No viable reason has been put forward to make a change.
Spoken like an NOEer.
:noid
-
Normally if I spot a flashing town (yes I watch the map for them) which turns out to be an Noe mission,I usually see an overwhelming response to up and defend against it. (usually)
The beauty of defending (if you catch it in time) against an Noe is the fact that its going to be a quick low alt turn fight.
Don't have to climb for 10 minutes to be co-alt with most of the cons.
They are served to you on a silver platter on the deck!
It really don't get much better than that.
The only thing that I find that comes close is a good CV attack. Good,quick low alt fights.
Either way its a good fight and thats what its about, right?
While I'll be the 1st to admit that defending against some of these Noe missions can be an exercise in futility, so can trying to fight cons that incessantly come in at 20k.
Pick your poison and play the game.
It is what it is.
-
"At least make it show when x amount of ac are in a sector." From the op.
<==== <smacks forehead>
-
With the new (well not so new) fad of horde noe avoiding the fight base taking. I say remove the minimum alt requirement for bar dar. At least make it show when x amount of ac are in a sector.
That is what this game is about.. the fight....not on how to avoid it.
Their 15$$, their chance to have fun. Why ruin their 15$$ and their fun?
-
The way i see it. If a compromise is not found, big maps will go away.....again.
Or the return of the base chained base capture system....which I liked.
-
The way i see it. If a compromise is not found, big maps will go away.....again.
When I'm on bish, I see usually about 1/2 of the NOE's I see not working or getting busted. Go up at an NOE an get some kills. Some squads like to do NOEs as others like to furball.
-
The way i see it. If a compromise is not found, big maps will go away.....again.
Or the return of the base chained base capture system....which I liked.
Just add a third LWA.
<runs and hides>
-
The base is still there... take it.
ZOMG I r forcing joo to fight peoplzez...In an MMO.. the humanity.......the horror...
Ohh and BTW HT has stated the game is about the fight. Base taking is just a tool to get people to fight.
have fun with that little tid bit. :aok
Edit: I'm not forcing you to fight my fight. I would however like you to fight period. :aok
Bronk from the offical AHII web site on the objective of the game, can you tell me where it says that the dogfight is the objective: "Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective in Aces High II. The arena terrain is divided into three countries (Bishop, Knight, and Rook), with each country starting with an equal number of fields, towns, cities, task groups, and a single headquarters for each country. All countries have an equal amount of territory at the beginning of a war.
The map is broken up into zones, with each zone having a master field. The master field controls the ownership of the factories which supply all other fields in the zone.
When a master field is captured, the factories will supply all fields in the zone owned by the capturing country. Each country has a primary zone which contains the country HQ, and this zone cannot be captured.
Territory is gained by capturing a field. A field consists of an airfield, vehicle field, or port and an adjacent town. The town is normally situated 2-3 miles from the field or port and contains the strategic map room for the entire field.
All buildings in the town must be destroyed before attempting to capture the field. Destroyed town buildings will stay down for approximately 45 minutes (this variable can be adjusted), during which time 10 troops must be delivered to the map room via one of the troop carriers to capture the field. After the tenth troop safely makes it into the map room, a system message will appear in the message buffer announcing the captured field number and the capturing country."
If you are so interested in the pure fight, why are you ever in any arena except the DA? Isn't the purpose of the DA to provide an arena where furballers can dogfight all day long, the fight is always available 24/7/365. Your radar is 100 percent you can see where every aircraft is at all times.
"
-
Traveler, these guys have the mindset the game was made solely for them.
-
moin
to be snacky, to be a fighter, to be a bomber, to be a gver........thats all a part of the game. why do some fitherpilots do not understand that the game is so much more than an endles furball.
btw a attacked base is blinking if you come into the 12 milie circle, noe or not ;).
cu chris3
-
There was, and still is, a "minimum altitude" for most radar systems. This is a realistic part of WWII, and there were several airbase attacks conducted by the Germans late in the war (when they got desperate) that were "NOE." You think the term nap of the earth came from AH...?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap-of-the-earth
There is nothing unbalancing about NOE raids, any well organized attack, whether it be at 20k, or 100 feet, is going to be effective.
-
Snipped for brevity..
Read my sig on what the game is about.....
Combat ...not avoiding it by horde monkey noe. See anax repost of HT.
Take all the bases you like...just have actual combat over em.
-
There was, and still is, a "minimum altitude" for most radar systems. This is a realistic part of WWII, and there were several airbase attacks conducted by the Germans late in the war (when they got desperate) that were "NOE." You think the term nap of the earth came from AH...?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap-of-the-earth
There is nothing unbalancing about NOE raids, any well organized attack, whether it be at 20k, or 100 feet, is going to be effective.
Please don't bring realism into it...again. The concessions to promote game play are multiple.
-
The problem with NOEs is if they are well run they are VERY hard to defend against. There is a quote by HT around about NOEs being defensible only if your sitting in the tower waiting for them. This is why they are becoming the "Mission of the day" for most squads. Easy to run, less chance you run into a real fight and so on. If things continue we will loose the big maps..... again, maybe they will add more auto-ack guns in the fields and towns.... again, and so on.
The OP posted a solution... lets flesh it out a bit.... Lower the radar to 100' above ground level, enable dar bar for 7 or more aircraft below radar. This way small groups can still run NOEs...which is what an NOE really is anyway.... and it will make it easier to spot large groups curbing the tendency of large squads trying to avoid a fight. Sounds like a good idea to me.....
.....or we could wait for one of Hi-tech's diabolical fixes :devil
-
I've got no problem with reducing NOE alt under maybe 250' instead of 500'. 100' is a little hairy if your not flying over level terrain, particuarly with ords.
As for numbers, I wouldn't mind some sort of indicator of a large NOE strike coming in. Say 10 planes or more would give an indication of some sort. The fun NOE strikes which I don't want to see lost are the small 5-8 man well-run squad raids, not the mobs. However, as I've stated plenty of times at this point -- elminating NOE entirely would detract from the game.
-
Spoken like an NOEer.
:noid
Nope, you got this one wrong Bronk. It is spoken like someone who regularly spots NOE'ers and fights them. So let's watch the labeling until you know where I am coming from and what I am about Sir. Just ask the more famous NOE types/squads and see if I show up a lot at their target. Hell, last night I had a countryman ask me "You're not gonna kill them all are you?" Look, I sympathize with your position, but do not feel that it is that difficult to find and intercept those that do not prefer outright battle. The current system functions fine.
-
.....or we could wait for one of Hi-tech's diabolical fixes :devil
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/comptest2.JPG)
I am all for it. :aok
-
Nope, you got this one wrong Bronk. It is spoken like someone who regularly spots NOE'ers and fights them. So let's watch the labeling until you know where I am coming from and what I am about Sir. Just ask the more famous NOE types/squads and see if I show up a lot at their target. Hell, last night I had a countryman ask me "You're not gonna kill them all are you?" Look, I sympathize with your position, but do not feel that it is that difficult to find and intercept those that do not prefer outright battle. The current system functions fine.
When you have multi winged mega squads going in one NOE...the system is broken. A handful of uppers can do nothing.
As fugitive alluded to..NOE should be limited to a small strike force. Not 32 people or more.
I'm definitely thinking he is on to it with the 7-10 strikers. Before bar dar pops.
-
Is that map supposed to indicate an order in which bases have to be captured? Can you imagine the improved fights we would have if that were imposed? There would be armageddon between those bases that were next in line! :lol
-
Setting a Plane limit for DAR pop I have to chew on. It's not a bad idea. As far as establishing a base capture order, I would love it. The fights would be absolutely colossal, maybe even legendary. I like it!
-
Is that map supposed to indicate an order in which bases have to be captured? Can you imagine the improved fights we would have if that were imposed? There would be armageddon between those bases that were next in line! :lol
We had it I loved it...there was much whine. :aok
-
We had it I loved it...there was much whine. :aok
The "majority" hated it.
It disapeared.
-
The "majority" hated it.
It disapeared.
Why, because they could not longer attack undefended bases?
-
With the new (well not so new) fad of horde noe avoiding the fight base taking. I say remove the minimum alt requirement for bar dar. At least make it show when x amount of ac are in a sector.
That is what this game is about.. the fight....not on how to avoid it.
Noe's are the same tactic as Frogman and SPEC OPS use, sneak in undetected, yet the game gives you a means of detecting them with the base flashing.... Now you want a dar bar to make it easier for you to defend. :cry
-
The horde monkey NOEers (majority) hated it.
It disapeared.
Fixed :aok
-
Noe's are the same tactic as Frogman and SPEC OPS use, sneak in undetected, yet the game gives you a means of detecting them with the base flashing.... Now you want a dar bar to make it easier for you to defend. :cry
Yea the use a division of spec ops to achieve their objective.
Sad :rofl
-
Yea the use a division of spec ops to achieve their objective.
Sad :rofl
Effective is more like it.... :rock
-
Effective is more like it.... :rock
Sad was in reference to you sad analogy....although it does reflect on your avoidance of cartoon combat also. :aok
-
Sad was in reference to you sad analogy....although it does reflect on your avoidance of cartoon combat also. :aok
I am happy knowing that you are frustrated and are begging for a means to defend against something that can easily be defended against. But you chose to rant and whine, typical of someone that cant fight when its not on your terms or just the way you want it. Thats the whole meaning behind NOE's and other tactics, to keep you frustrated, and it works. :lol
I have not needed to run an NOE in some time now, I have posted many missions at ALT and taken the base because of frustration like yours, your too easy.
Your complaint is mostley about EW not the others anyway. So, you can rationalize any way you chose, but your still the one whining. :lol
-
Try reading this again slowly. I suggest you get a dictionary for bigger words.
Killjoy: Element of surprise, while sounding great from an offensive mode, create big problems for actual game play.
Think of it this way, if the element of surprise is so overwellming that there is no way to defend against, then that is the path of least resistance, and hence will become the primary mode of attack. That is the state of affairs as it stood previously with big maps.
Now there are NOE raids that do not cause this, I.E. NOE raids to acheive singular objectives, I.E. hitting cities, factories, possibly 1 open field deep in enemy territory. But if all objectives can be taken by NOE raids, IT creates non defensible game play.
2nd it easy to say, well people should just defend then. Think about what it really takes to defend against NOE raids, and do you really want to do that defense.
To defend successfully at NOE raids, you need more than 1 player.
2nd to defend against them you have to sit in the tower, waiting for the base to flash, and then up soon as it does.
Does that defense sound fun to you ? I.E. do you really want to just wait in tower for something that might or might not occur? Sure if you new a NOE mission was otw, but didn't know where it might be fun. But not where you don't even know if one is going to occur.
Hence what we are talking about is simply balance. I see where NOE raids can be fun, but we have to have a system where they do not become the path of least resistance for base capture.
HiTech
Keep avoiding the combat...it's what your best at. :aok
-
Sad was in reference to you sad analogy....although it does reflect on your avoidance of cartoon combat also. :aok
isnt it that what you want......cartoon combat??!!
cu chris3
-
isnt it that what you want......cartoon combat??!!
cu chris3
Horde noe is all about avoiding combat... or do you not understand "the path of least resistance."?
-
Look here donkey, no it isnt.
There is a time and a place for NOE's and when its used correctley will and has dispersed the hordes that are defending or attacking bases.
You stated that you saw NOE's regurlarly in the EW, cant speak for that. But they are used in the LW and are defended against by some known adversaries. I rarely see 25-30 guys in NOE's much less that many in the EW arena, more often than not they are 10=15 in an NOE.
Either way they can be defended against. You dont have to sit in a tower to wait for a blinking base, you can still fly and keep an eye, or in your case an ear, on the game.
-
It's in all arenas late war is just a bigger horde..but you of all people know that. :aok
-
It's in all arenas late war is just a bigger horde..but you of all people know that. :aok
and more defenders, but you wouldnt know that..... :aok
-
and more defenders, but you wouldnt know that..... :aok
Yes everyone bail from what they are doing to stop you and your flying horde monkeys....or better yet sit in the tower waiting for a base to flash.
I guess HT needed to use smaller word in the quoted post you failed to comprehend. But that is to be expected from a horde monkey. :aok
-
Yes everyone bail from what they are doing to stop you and your flying horde monkeys....or better yet sit in the tower waiting for a base to flash.
I guess HT needed to use smaller word in the quoted post you failed to comprehend. But that is to be expected from a horde monkey. :aok
Oh dont do that,,, your score will just fall away,,,,
But if you did, and upped from the flashing field it would be a fight that you so eagerly avoid. Fun for all donkey.... :)
-
Hey Bronk!
I think we get it.
You don't like Noes.
So because YOU don't like them,they shouldn't exist.
We get it, its your way or the highway.
Anything else to add?
Or you just gonna keep repeating this tired old argument.
There are 2 sides to this discussion and neither side will ever agree with the other.
-
Bronk, you've done nothing in this thread but flame those who disagree (which by the sounds of it, is just about everyone). This isn't changing anyone's mind, it will just make them more stubborn and makes you look childish.
This thread is just a big fat whine. NOE's are part of the game, they aren't going anywhere, so cope and deal.
-
Yes everyone bail from what they are doing to stop you and your flying horde monkeys....
One more question before I bail from this lame discussion.
If you're so busy with "the fight" why do you even care that guys are taking bases? Noe or otherwise?
-
Hey Bronk!
I think we get it.
You don't like Noes.
So because YOU don't like them,they shouldn't exist.
We get it, its your way or the highway.
Anything else to add?
Or you just gonna keep repeating this tired old argument.
There are 2 sides to this discussion and neither side will ever agree with the other.
No..NOEs are fine as a small strike tactic. However used as a primary tactic of the horde... lame ???
I've amended it not to eliminate but to what fugitive has proposed. 100' bar dar, no auto pilot under that alt with a 7-10 plane limit.
Or do you feel horde noe is the way to go?
-
Hey, now we're making progress. 100 feet is VERY low, I think tree's would become an issue at that point, maybe 250 feet with no auto pilot would be fine. I'm not sure how you would limit the aircraft though, I think hordes are just part of the game whether high or low, and your not going to be able to limit them.
I was thinking though, what if we had an "ENY" limit? You could only have so many low-eny aircraft in a mission, that way we don't get ridiculous aircraft in the mobs. But if there were less pilots, you could have better aircraft... Would make sense to me.
-
One more question before I bail from this lame discussion.
If you're so busy with "the fight" why do you even care that guys are taking bases? Noe or otherwise?
I've bailed from many a "boo they sunk the cv/they dropped the fh" to up at a flashing base.
Sometimes I find a small noe mission sometimes the horde monkies.
The small mission guys put up a fight and I <S> them for it no matter the outcome.
The horde monkeys are there for the protection of the horde. The path of least resistance.
-
Hey, now we're making progress. 100 feet is VERY low, I think tree's would become an issue at that point, maybe 250 feet with no auto pilot would be fine. I'm not sure how you would limit the aircraft though, I think hordes are just part of the game whether high or low, and your not going to be able to limit them.
I was thinking though, what if we had an "ENY" limit? You could only have so many low-eny aircraft in a mission, that way we don't get ridiculous aircraft in the mobs. But if there were less pilots, you could have better aircraft... Would make sense to me.
I'm sure code can be written to the extent of anything more than 10 in a given sector bar dar shows.
-
I've bailed from many a "boo they sunk the cv/they dropped the fh" to up at a flashing base.
Sometimes I find a small noe mission sometimes the horde monkies.
The small mission guys put up a fight and I <S> them for it no matter the outcome.
The horde monkeys are there for the protection of the horde. The path of least resistance.
Are you stuck on stupid? Your trying to hang on with a thin thread, its pathetic.
-
But if you did, and upped from the flashing field it would be a fight that you so eagerly avoid. Fun for all donkey.... :)
You truly are stuck on stupid aren't you. I's not a fight, again read the ht quoted post.
Nice use what i've used on you before in the collision thread...so you can read..that's a plus.
-
You gotta remember that no human being will ever pick the path of most resistance, that's not our nature. Well, it's not any living thing's nature except maybe for Salmon trying to swim up-stream. You'd be crazy to put out more effort to accomplish the same task.
You know what would be cool, instead of having automatic dar bar after 10 aircraft, is small radar stations placed around the map that will detect NOE aircraft, you'd have to scout a bit, and then it would take like 1000 lbs to destroy them (But only the team who owns the stations can see them on their map). Could add some more tactics to taking bases NOE.
-
Now thats an idea. :aok
-
You truly are stuck on stupid aren't you. I's not a fight, again read the ht quoted post.
Nice use what i've used on you before in the collision thread...so you can read..that's a plus.
I read it several times,,,, what you fail to hear or read in response is my concern......
You continue to avoid repsonses and call names to justify your lack of concern. You read them.
-
my concern......
Being caught in combat.. I knew this already.
-
Being caught in combat.. I knew this already.
Your in denial donkey, when will you let it go.... save some face what little you have left.
-
Your in denial donkey, when will you let it go.... save some face what little you have left.
Stick with your horde... you need it.
-
Stick with your horde... you need it.
same song and dance......
-
How many times have NOE's been busted by 1 guy? More than I can count. One guy with the guts to up in the face of 20 to 1 odds, pilots with the foresight to fly defensive air patrol at frontline bases. Most NOE captures can be accomplished with less than is used,I agree. But the fact is if any side doesnt take land,then they lose the war.
I love NOE flying, the only time I autopilot is if i have to go afk, the whole of the flight is the pure love of weaving through valleys,missing the windmills and ribbing squaddies who crash. I kill far less during these,the thrill is in the journey and not the destination.
-
same song and dance......
Kinda like rolling bases noe ?
-
Read my sig on what the game is about.....
Combat ...not avoiding it by horde monkey noe. See anax repost of HT.
Take all the bases you like...just have actual combat over em.
Your signature is not the stated objective of the game as published on the offical AHII web site. Also if you read your entire signature.
"The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up." It appears to me that you don’t understand your own signature.
stated another way: Conquering bases by no means is more or less justified then just going out and mixing it up (furballing).
The idea was to promote combat, be it on land, sea or in the air. However, it takes two sides to have combat. So the next time the horde strikes at a base go defend at the base. Then you will get your combat. One side can not know if a base will be defended or not when they plan a strike. If no one defends at a base, the base gets rolled, that's not the fault of the attacker if the other side does not defend.
-
Up a fast plane and goon hunt...problem solved...at any monent there is 1 PERSON in the tower to up at that field and grab 2k alt and come in fast to kill the goon...NOE has been part of the game for awhile no point in getting rid of it now.
-
If no one defends at a base, the base gets rolled, that's not the fault of the attacker if the other side does not defend.
I see your hyperbole and up the anti with a well reasoned reply.
Killjoy: Element of surprise, while sounding great from an offensive mode, create big problems for actual game play.
Think of it this way, if the element of surprise is so overwellming that there is no way to defend against, then that is the path of least resistance, and hence will become the primary mode of attack. That is the state of affairs as it stood previously with big maps.
Now there are NOE raids that do not cause this, I.E. NOE raids to acheive singular objectives, I.E. hitting cities, factories, possibly 1 open field deep in enemy territory. But if all objectives can be taken by NOE raids, IT creates non defensible game play.
2nd it easy to say, well people should just defend then. Think about what it really takes to defend against NOE raids, and do you really want to do that defense.
To defend successfully at NOE raids, you need more than 1 player.
2nd to defend against them you have to sit in the tower, waiting for the base to flash, and then up soon as it does.
Does that defense sound fun to you ? I.E. do you really want to just wait in tower for something that might or might not occur? Sure if you new a NOE mission was otw, but didn't know where it might be fun. But not where you don't even know if one is going to occur.
Hence what we are talking about is simply balance. I see where NOE raids can be fun, but we have to have a system where they do not become the path of least resistance for base capture.
HiTech
-
I see your hyperbole and up the anti with a well reasoned reply.
You don't understand your own signature.
-
Bronk, you keep posting that quote from HiTech, and it isn't saying what you think it is. The last line says it all:
"Hence what we are talking about is simply balance. I see where NOE raids can be fun, but we have to have a system where they do not become the path of least resistance for base capture."
Essentially, yes, they are fun, but they are not the best or easiest way to accomplish base captures. The system they implemented works well to balance out NOE and high-alt attacks.
-
I am IN. This was going nowhere from post #1.
-
You don't understand your own signature.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat.
Hmmm thats a tough one.
Does it mean hide under dar with horde and steam roll undefended bases?
Please... enlighten me.
-
"Hence what we are talking about is simply balance. I see where NOE raids can be fun, but we have to have a system where they do not become the path of least resistance for base capture."
Go to that thread he is speaking of the test base capture system.. It was tested because of the noe crap. Shortly after that big maps went poooof. I fear that is OTW again.
-
Noe's should remain in gameplay....
if you take an undefended base u get a horde of people trying to take it back and a large gv battle or most likelya furball produces...
-
Noe's should remain in gameplay....
if you take an undefended base u get a horde of people trying to take it back and a large gv battle or most likelya furball produces...
You missed the point my young friend. I do not wish to remove NOE. I wish to remove horde noe as the mainstay of base taking in the MA.
-
"Fair, there is nothing fair in a fight. What you want in DA is an optimal start of an engagment, if you have practiced for that and anticipate the move, its easy."
Dads...if you like...I will give you 5k alt adv. Same planes tho...you can pick. And feel free to HO...well...try to. Let me know when a good time would be(as long as it is before the 7th, I have an underway). Best 3 out of 5.
-
Bronk, after 6 pages, I'd think you'd understand. These guys like to play like this. It's their 15$$, and if Skuzzy made it impossible for them to run NOEs, that's over 50-60 people that would be quitting.
What's wrong with running NOEs? It's "spineless" but it's something to do. I'll logg in sometimes, and I'll see the fight only on Rook/Knit front, so what do I do, I join NOE's when I see them.
You missed the point my young friend. I do not wish to remove NOE. I wish to remove horde noe as the mainstay of base taking in the MA.
You keep missing the point, this has been around a long time, it isn't going. Nothing is fair in a fight, it looks like you've been getting killed too much by NOEs. I personally like hordes, when I jump into them, if I last more than 2 minutes, chances are, I learned some bit of ACM in the midst of it. My best fights in Aces High have been in 2 v 1s, 3 v 1s, and even me jumping into the midst of an NOE trying to survive.
Bronk, if you want only 1 v 1s, go to the DA.
-
snipped for for being clueless
Funniest part is how clueless you really are.... Skuzzy has almost 0 do to with game play... he is tech support. This is only one reason why your post is next to worthless. :aok
-
Funniest part is how clueless you really are.... Skuzzy has almost 0 do to with game play... he is tech support. This is only one reason why your post is next to worthless. :aok
No, you don't know how clueless you really are. It doesn't matter if it's Skuzzy, Hitech, or anyone there for that matter, it's HTC as a team. They made it possible almost 10 years ago (probably 10 years ago) and made the game great the way it is. If you really don't like people running NOE's, it's your problem.
I have no problem with it whatso ever.
But why do you? "Because they wont fight" they fight alright. I've had blasts fighting the Lynchmob when they'd go rook, or RT when I'd not be Bishop. Some of the greatest sticks in the game are in the "horder" squads. :rolleyes:
-
I don't see this thread ending well...
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Well maybe we should put those tall red flags on GVs like they do on those low level plastic tricycles.
-
The problem is not NOE missions. No one is asking for the end of NOE missions. The problem is NOE missions with 30 people attacking.
Up and defend, someone says. You either get vultched endlessly or HO'd repeatedly. Up from another base? Gone before you can get there. I've seen bases captured before a gv could drive to the town. But remember, this is a hoard sneaking into an out-of-the-way base.
The "NAVY SEAL" analogy: I don't think they take 20 or 30 SEALs on a covert mission. Kind of kills the 'covert' part.
The "Real Life" argument? Radar or not, Lots of planes are hard to hide. A few planes are easier to hide.
It's all about the numbers, not about the NOE itself. More of this has been happening lately because we have had three days of Titanic Tuesday and there are more people on in general due to the holidays. When you have 270 people flying on your side, what's a little 30 person raid?
wrongway
-
The problem is not NOE missions. No one is asking for the end of NOE missions. The problem is NOE missions with 30 people attacking.
Up and defend, someone says. You either get vultched endlessly or HO'd repeatedly. Up from another base? Gone before you can get there. I've seen bases captured before a gv could drive to the town. But remember, this is a hoard sneaking into an out-of-the-way base.
The "NAVY SEAL" analogy: I don't think they take 20 or 30 SEALs on a covert mission. Kind of kills the 'covert' part.
The "Real Life" argument? Radar or not, Lots of planes are hard to hide. A few planes are easier to hide.
It's all about the numbers, not about the NOE itself. More of this has been happening lately because we have had three days of Titanic Tuesday and there are more people on in general due to the holidays. When you have 270 people flying on your side, what's a little 30 person raid?
wrongway
Spot on.
I guess you have to be older than 6 to get it...or is that an IQ higher than 6.
-
Spot on.
I guess you have to be older than 6 to get it...or is that an IQ higher than 6.
Actually bronk, I get it. But you still don't. It isn't hard to bust an NOE, but I guess you need an IQ higher than 5 to get it, since mine is apparently 6.
While you're being a complete dick about this, somehow, me a 16 year old kid, is keeping calm about this. I don't understand how you get so worked up over it? The map gets reset the next week. So it's not like the NOE'ers are getting their way. This thread may have been more spot on about a year ago.
Your own signature is the exact thing I'm trying to point out to you. These squads aren't there just to NOE, they're there to have fun. Why ruin their fun? Over a base and cartoon planes because you cant have your way? Quit pouting about it and get in your cartoon plane and prepare to get them back! :)
-
No, you don't know how clueless you really are. It doesn't matter if it's Skuzzy, Hitech, or anyone there for that matter, it's HTC as a team. They made it possible almost 10 years ago (probably 10 years ago) and made the game great the way it is. If you really don't like people running NOE's, it's your problem.
I have no problem with it whatso ever.
But why do you? "Because they wont fight" they fight alright. I've had blasts fighting the Lynchmob when they'd go rook, or RT when I'd not be Bishop. Some of the greatest sticks in the game are in the "horder" squads. :rolleyes:
Can you read? I have no problem with noe.... it's horde noe I have a problem with. I guess ack ack was right ... a ho and go type cant figure it out.
Once again clueless. HT tired of endless horde noe once before. He implemented and ordered base take system. But the whine was so tremendous it was pulled...... along with big maps. I guess he just forgot why he pulled the big maps.
-
Perfectly calm squeaker... I just want a straight up fight.... do you?
-
:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
They're almost never "horde" NOE's, they sometimes never exceed 15 people. And about ack-ack, he's a griefer. Straight up. I've never seen him make a single positive comment about anyone for anything. As far as I see it, to him, it's a "vertical rolling maneuver" or something lame like that, when I do it, it's "picking."
The biggest idiots of the game go in your group, you and ack-ack. It isn't because you're "bad" at the game. It's your view into it. I grew up looking at things positively, try it. Look at the game positively, or go to another, there's 3 others you know that have a very nice community. I'm sure they'd welcome you and ack-ack, wait, no they wouldn't. They'd send you off the rail almost immediately.
Perfectly calm squeaker... I just want a straight up fight.... do you?
haha, squeaker... Like I haven't heard that before, after 2 years. And is that a DA offer? :rolleyes:
I could care less about cartoon planes to tell you. I up, and have fun, whether I be on the dying side of it or not.
Try it. People like you and ack-ack are the #1 problems in this game, not the "horders." The main blame is pointed to bish throughout this thread, but I've been watching bish get steamrolled all december and even last night. Get over it, even on small maps, there'll still be "NOE horders" which consists of "anyone and anything that kills me because I'm too l337 to die" sorry, but the game wasn't made solely for you. As much as you'd hate to know, there's many many MANY more people that play the game other than you. As a fact, most aren't even bothered by these "NOE hordes!!!11! zOMG!" Until recently, the "NOE horde" apparently hasn't been much of a horde at all. You wont ever get your wish, they'll just get more #s and then go at you from high alt, you'll then be complaining about getting picked all the time, so keep complaining.
I'm through with this thread. Arguing with a 5 year old is harder than arguing with someone my age. You feel you have to say anything else, just shoot me a PM bud.
:salute
-
Snipped for ridiculousness.
Hyperbole it's in you. :aok
-
I wish to remove horde noe as the mainstay of base taking in the MA.
Good luck.
-
Good luck.
Again horde is one thing horde noe is another. Separate entities.... you know this.
-
Without going into detail about why this is the silliest thing ever.........
I will say this Bronk, go someplace else if the only enjoyment you get out of the game is dogfighting/killing/vulching/... or whatever it is you do. Maybe the DA........ Since you know you'll get a fair fight there..... RIGHT?
Bronk has tunnel vision, that's his choice........ But what about the hundreds of PAYING customers that get a little bit more out of the game then you do, that enjoy noe's, that enjoy being a little more sneaky.... How would the knits ever bomb the rook HQ if there is unrealistic dar signatures flying at 100 ft?
Next thing he'll wish for is a Tomcat..... Oh but if he did that, this never would have made page 7. But what is the difference? Neither would be very realistic.
Go play a different game, or at least get out of the arena. I hear there are fair fights in the DA..... Or did I mention that already?
:salute
Now at the same time, I have to greatly credit Bronk for thinking about how to better make the game. I just dont think this is the path to choose.
It's true!!! Pyro..... Use Pyro for such things! :aok
Skuzzy has almost 0 do to with game play...
-
Bronk has tunnel vision, that's his choice........ But what about the hundreds of PAYING customers that get a little bit more out of the game then you do, that enjoy noe's, that enjoy being a little more sneaky.... How would the knits ever bomb the rook HQ if there is unrealistic dar signatures flying at 100 ft?
Hey numpty... Horde noe .... or are you hard of reading?
-
So you're real wish is for a code rewrite to automatically give altitude of 600ft to more then what, 6 pilots flying NOE? :huh What about to groups passing NOE friendly in the night?
Hey numpty... Horde noe .... or are you hard of reading?
Yes, I can hear the words you spew........ But they make no sense. Tired about complaining about the horde? Let's figure out how to make the horde sound worse then it is.............. NOE HORDE! Yeah, that will do it!
-
So you're real wish is for a code rewrite to automatically give altitude of 600ft to more then what, 6 pilots flying NOE? :huh What about to groups passing NOE friendly in the night?
Yes, I can hear the words you spew........ But they make no sense. Tired about complaining about the horde? Let's figure out how to make the horde sound worse then it is.............. NOE HORDE! Yeah, that will do it!
I've already given the basics if you care to read.
100-200' before bar dar pops.
No auto pilot below that alt
Anything more than say 10.. or it can be adjusted by eny.
The horde is bad enough... but when they come in at alt at least you can have actual combat.
Can't have that with the horde noe...that's what they want ..no combat.
Ohh... I know being in the conga line fighting over the 3-4 defending uppers is combat..in and of itself. WTG on your 1337 conga skillz. :aok
-
I couldn't figure out why LLogann was getting so uppity and laying into Bronk, until I saw his signature......
I get it now :D
-
I gotta say, I enjoy NOE hordes...
Last night I upped in my B-Pony as usual in Blue Arena, and was gaining altitude when I noticed a HUGE mob of red entering A36 (I believe). Well, I was at 10k and we got enough Bish scrambled to defend the base that I was able to just calmly pick them off. Ended up landing 4 kills without even breaking a sweat. NOE hordes are usually much less than effective IMHO...
-
I gotta say, I enjoy NOE hordes...
Last night I upped in my B-Pony as usual in Blue Arena, and was gaining altitude when I noticed a HUGE mob of red entering A36 (I believe). Well, I was at 10k and we got enough Bish scrambled to defend the base that I was able to just calmly pick them off. Ended up landing 4 kills without even breaking a sweat. NOE hordes are usually much less than effective IMHO...
Gratz on already being up and spotting them. Now, defend when a base at the other end of the map is flashing. I doubt you'll get to 10k once the base starts flashing and your forced to up from it.
-
Gratz on already being up and spotting them. Now, defend when a base at the other end of the map is flashing. I doubt you'll get to 10k once the base starts flashing and your forced to up from it.
Ah, I wasn't very clear. I actually upped when I saw the base flash, I didn't notice it was a huge horde until they poped dar. I actually was on the other side of the map too! :) I usually scan the map between sorties to see if there is anything more interesting than where I'm at.
When you see the base flash, just take off in the opposite direction of the enemy base, gain alt, and it's free kills for days! :P
-
:salute
I couldn't figure out why LLogann was getting so uppity and laying into Bronk, until I saw his signature......
I get it now :D
But see there can be some fun with NOE horde's...... Or half hordes, like the AK's last night......... And Bronk, you're forgetting something about an NOE horde........ It's NOE, everything works against NOE as there are far fewer advantages. Once we saw the AK's coming last night, it was simply reup and grab 5k. Plenty of time and we had their vector.
That works for you as well, provided your country works together and announces the horde. Could it be that the real wish should be a little more teamwork?
Or perhaps it comes down to ACM.................. My eyes get big and my mouth waters when i see an NOE horde (3 times thus far). Dive in, cross your fingers and kill 3 or 4 in the first run. Hope you make it through and get back up...... Roll back into them before fighters can get any type of pursuit on you.
What makes your adrenaline go more then that? Furball at TT?
-
Or perhaps it comes down to ACM
:rofl :rofl from you... :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
:rofl :rofl from you... :rofl :rofl :rofl
Bronk his post was legitimate, he wasn't flaming anyone. Remember that post like the one you just posted don't get anything done and more often than not ruin the OP's argument.
-
Not much ACM involved with hordes on undefended fields...or ones that have an 1-4 uppers. The 1-4 uppers must use some ACM to have any success...
-
Not much ACM involved with hordes on undefended fields...or ones that have an 1-4 uppers. The 1-4 uppers must use some ACM to have any success...
Not necessarily. They can just Ho everything in sight. If they go down, they can up within 5 seconds. Everyone from the attacking horde has to fly all the way to get back into fight. The 1-4 defenders can break the cap without any actual ACM that way ;)
-
Good point. Although, according to some, the HO is a valid ACM...
-
Good point. Although, according to some, the HO is a valid ACM...
It certainly is when you are barely wheels up and the vulcher is screaming down on you.
I prefer the IL-2 for generalized HOing/vulch-breaking, YMMV.
-
And they say HT doesn't grant wishes.
TY HT :aok
-
And they say HT doesn't grant wishes.
TY HT :aok
So you bump a 2 year old thread to throw that in peoples faces that disagreed with you. :rolleyes:
Weak
-
So you bump a 2 year old thread to throw that in peoples faces that disagreed with you. :rolleyes:
Weak
1st its a 1 1/2 years notice the last reply. I know math is't your best subject... HOing is.
2nd The topic of the thread is one of current conversation.
3rd It dispelled the myth that ht doesn't grant wishes.
4th It was a thanks
Yea and a :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener:
-
1st its a 1 1/2 years notice the last reply. I know math is't your best subject... HOing is.
2nd The topic of the thread is one of current conversation.
3rd It dispelled the myth that ht doesn't grant wishes.
4th It was a thanks
Yea and a :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener:
:lol :lol :lol
:rolleyes:
-
This wasnt the only thread that got heated over this discussion I think waystin2s got locked :devil
-
This wasnt the only thread that got heated over this discussion I think waystin2s got locked :devil
:D
-
Anyone noticed how many more hordes there have been from all sides since the changes?
-
NOE by a small force needs the element of surprise to have a chance to take the base. With a limited number of aircraft, it takes a bit of time to get all the town buildings down, during which time even a single or two determined uppers can often thwart the attack. Kill the goon, or take down one attacker each time you up, and a 5 person NOE raid disolves quickly.
Take away the NOE option, there is a group of people whose fun you just negatively impacted. Not good IMO.
But I don't think this is the type of raid the OP is talking about, because the small raid can and often is defended against successfully. The monster, 20 110s and 10 goons escorted by 30 Nikis raids are a horse of a different color . . .
But now ask yourself -- if you take away the option of a 5-6 player / small squad NOE raid, what is the next logical step? It would seem to me the next step would be that several small squads that used to do NOE raids would instead band together and come in as one of those monster raids . . .
So, the net unintended consequence of this idea, IMO, will be more hordes and hording behavior, not less. I personally don't think that would be a good thing.
Glad to see my point of view has at least been consistent over the last 18 months or so.
-
Glad to see my point of view has at least been consistent over the last 18 months or so.
You sir are nothing but. :D
-
Anyone noticed how many more hordes there have been from all sides since the changes?
At least its horde on horde now..... :rock