Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sirvlad on January 10, 2009, 12:55:43 PM
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Tired of these $%#% $^^ il2`s popping my turret or exploding my tigers so damm easily. For 6-7 years they couldn`t now they can and i hate it !!!!! Amazing how they now got this sudden amount of fire power.
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The wonders of Dual 37mm? I hate it too, now they can rival with my B25 against gvs. :)
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The wonders of Dual 37mm? I hate it too, now they can rival with my B25 against gvs. :)
LOL he missed the update. :D
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bla bla update Back in the day no il2 could fly around and kill 1/2 a dozen tanks and no matter how much mc gunning you do to them they r nvr downed. The il2 was most acceptable to damage from the bottom,exactly where we shoot them,but nothing happens.
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"Back in the day" I don't think the Il2 used 37mm cannons.
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Tired of these $%#% $^^ il2`s popping my turret or exploding my tigers so damm easily. For 6-7 years they couldn`t now they can and i hate it !!!!! Amazing how they now got this sudden amount of fire power.
Ummm...IL2 received new guns not to long ago.
ack-ack
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"Back in the day" I don't think the Il2 used 37mm cannons.
They did so! The il-2 was the most produced aircraft in history with 36,000 produced and many of them were used for anti tank duty! If you are tired of them then get good in a flak. or learn to fire your tank gun at a plane! i got 11 plane kills in a panzer in 1 sortie once because the guy kept upping an il-2 and firing on the deck welll into my turret range.
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Boner was talking about in-game.
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Boner was talking about in-game.
either way 37mm guns are pretty fair just up a flak and you can kill so many of them...
i think we also need the ju-87 G1
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Boner was talking about in-game.
Correctamundo!!
TY Ranger! :salute
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They did so! The il-2 was the most produced aircraft in history with 36,000 produced and many of them were used for anti tank duty!
To be honest, real IL-2 didnt use 23 or 37 much vs armors, they used special antitank hollow bombs which was real bane for armors.
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bla bla update Back in the day no il2 could fly around and kill 1/2 a dozen tanks and no matter how much mc gunning you do to them they r nvr downed. The il2 was most acceptable to damage from the bottom,exactly where we shoot them,but nothing happens.
Back in the day, sure they could. 23mms are deadly enough to Panzers and lighter vehicles. The Sherman is a bit more challenging, but also killable. It is all about angle and auger avoidance.
The 37mm upgrade is quite acceptable IMO if for no other reason than as a counterbalance to the ease at which Wirbys (at least the ones I am not shooting from) can take down low flying attackers.
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Ummm...IL2 received new guns not to long ago.
ack-ack
wheres your avatar?
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Tired of these $%#% $^^ il2`s popping my turret or exploding my tigers so damm easily. For 6-7 years they couldn`t now they can and i hate it !!!!! Amazing how they now got this sudden amount of fire power.
Sorry for popping your turret so much...I'll stop if it means that much to you... :(
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all that the tanks have to do is hit one of the wing roots because of the oil coooler will break with 2 hits
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(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4109/tankkillersej0.jpg)
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(http://www.brendanpoga.com/machinima/il2ah.jpg)
http://www.mediafire.com/?li3ztmobliv
Video Codec
Download the divx codec here:
http://www.divx.com/
Original thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253018.0.html
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Please tell the wirble drivers that they can't shoot down my il-2 then...they didn't get the memo.
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Would you like some CHEESE with that WHINE
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Tired of these $%#% $^^ il2`s popping my turret or exploding my tigers so damm easily. For 6-7 years they couldn`t now they can and i hate it !!!!! Amazing how they now got this sudden amount of fire power.
Personally I'm impressed with the update of the 37mm's
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/turretpop.jpg)
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Personally I'm impressed with the update of the 37mm's
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/turretpop.jpg)
I thought the best approach was from the rear of the tank at that angle. This Pic appears to be a frontal approach on the thicker frontal armor.
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I thought the best approach was from the rear of the tank at that angle. This Pic appears to be a frontal approach on the thicker frontal armor.
Panzers can be done with enough angle. T-34/shermans not so much due to slope of armor. Have yet to try a tiger. Betting almost vert from the front will pop em.
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The Smart Il2 pilots come in at a steep angle to avoid tank guns. The days of Tanks with no antiaircraft defense are gone. However the kill power of one or two bullets may be overmodeled.
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Personally I'm impressed with the update of the 37mm's
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/turretpop.jpg)
That pic reminds me of yesterday where i poped an M4 with a short burst of 37mm.. then he reuped and got me with his turret :(
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However the kill power of one or two bullets may be overmodeled.
You have data to support this claim?
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Armor penetration for HS-37
http://www.battlefield.ru/pics/il2_test3.gif
I doubt it could penetrate 50mm frontal Pz4H armor, but I havnt enough data. Some reports say there was several Panthers destroyed by IL-2's HS-37 but no details.
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The NS-37, unusually for the USSR, used a short-recoil mechanism and was belt-fed. It was a particularly slim weapon, with a compact mechanism, suitable for fitting between the banks of a liquid-cooled vee-engine to fire through the hollow propeller hub. The powerful 37x195 ammunition is quoted as penetrating 48mm / 500m / 90 degrees, enough to pose a threat to the side or rear armour of virtually any tank. The 45x185 cartridge of the NS-45 increased this to around 58mm.
From
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
And the shot lynx posted was probably through the top armor.
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I hate it too, now they can rival with my B25 against gvs. :)
That will change if HTC will ever give us the AP mix carried by the real thing (5AP + 16HE, I think)
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The powerful 37x195 ammunition is quoted as penetrating 48mm / 500m / 90 degrees, enough to pose a threat to the side or rear armour of virtually any tank.
IL-2 used BZT-37 ammunition against armors, its penetration shown in my previous post. I didnt know where 48mm at 500m comes from.
btw, I was blind, first column on diagram is for 50mm armor.
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IL-2 used BZT-37 ammunition against armors, its penetration shown in my previous post. I didnt know where 48mm at 500m comes from.
btw, I was blind, first column on diagram is for 50mm armor.
Oleg, I was just trying to add a bit of info. That is from Tony Williams sight. I think his assessment is accurate.
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IL2 37mms vs Wirble...either way you'r screwed. You might kill the IL2 but he'll get yout turret.
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Panzers can be done with enough angle. T-34/shermans not so much due to slope of armor. Have yet to try a tiger. Betting almost vert from the front will pop em.
Best to hit a tiger with a Hurri IID, they can get the vertical shot a lot easier than the IL-2, as well as that the Vickers disable the turret pretty well.
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Best to hit a tiger with a Hurri IID, they can get the vertical shot a lot easier than the IL-2, as well as that the Vickers disable the turret pretty well.
While I luv the D... It is much easier to pop tigers with the IL-2 now. Try off line , I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion.
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Panzers can be done with enough angle. T-34/shermans not so much due to slope of armor. Have yet to try a tiger. Betting almost vert from the front will pop em.
Gotta get a pretty good angle on the back of a Tiger to pop it.
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While I luv the D... It is much easier to pop tigers with the IL-2 now. Try off line , I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion.
Yup.. I was a avid hurri D flyer until Wirbel came out..
but in direct comparison, Il2 is now the "better" tiger killer, more ammo, higher rof, better trajectory while having almost 40% more energy at the muzzle. It'S much easier to kill Tigers with it.
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Well we dont want a lethal, historically accurate, tank killer interfering with the rights of AH campers. :lol So lets "dumb the IL-2 down".http://www.vectorsite.net/avil2.html
The Kursk salient became a storm of combat, but on 13 July Hitler, confronted with the Anglo-American invasion of Sicily, called off CITADEL. The Battle of Kursk was a significant Soviet victory, and would soon lead to rolling back the Germans all along the Eastern Front. The Shturmovik had made a major contribution to the success of Red arms. Il-2s destroyed 70 tanks of the 9th Panzer Division in a mere 20 minutes, inflicted losses of 2,000 men and 270 tanks in two hours of attack on the 3rd Panzer Division, and effectively destroyed the 17th Panzer Division in four hours of strikes, smashing 240 vehicles out of their total of almost 300.
If I remember right this was "above" before the 37mms were added.
The Shturmovik's armor made it generally invulnerable to anything less than 20 millimeter fire. Even that had to be accurate and precise to do the aircraft damage, and an Il-2 moving fast and jinking wildly at low altitude was very hard to hit. Despite their survivability, Shturmovik losses were high, for they fought in the teeth of the worst combat with no place to hide. Soviet factories continued churn out the simple, reliable aircraft, and those that fell were quickly replaced with new aircraft with weaknesses eliminated. Red pilots refined their tactics and training to help reduce the losses.
Or at least thought they were. The Soviets attempted to launch a preemptive air strike early that morning, but the Germans quickly sensed the move and sent up their own fighters, destroying 70 Red aircraft at little loss to themselves. German Army ground units made progress in their attack on the Soviet flanks. Within a day, however, the Soviets rallied, and on 7 July 1943 they responded with overwhelming attacks that smashed German panzer divisions. The Shturmoviks were in their element and delivered hammer blows to enemy tanks.
Against armor in offensive formation, however, they preferred the "Circle of Death" attack, in which a Shturmovik group would flank around the enemy and then peel off successively, each Il-2 making a shallow diving attack, then pulling up and around for another pass. The beauty of the Circle of Death was that it kept the enemy under continuous fire for as long as the aircraft had fuel and ammunition. One Shturmovik pilot, Senior Lieutenant Alexander Yefinov, wrote: "We usually tried to attack from the rear, where the armor was thinner and where the most vulnerable components of the vehicles were located: the engines and the gas tanks." He proudly added that "the effect was staggering as Hitler's celebrated Tigers burned under the strikes." Il-2M3s armed with 37 millimeter guns were able to destroy Panthers and Tigers with their guns alone, blasting into their thinner top armor.
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Oleg, I was just trying to add a bit of info. That is from Tony Williams sight. I think his assessment is accurate.
All my sources said same - 50mm at 200m / 90 deg. Unfortunately, they are all in Russian.
Doesnt really matter too much, anyway, because it can penetrate top armor of any tank for sure.
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Tired of these $%#% $^^ il2`s popping my turret or exploding my tigers so damm easily. For 6-7 years they couldn`t now they can and i hate it !!!!! Amazing how they now got this sudden amount of fire power.
Once again, proof the TIGER is the most over priced and useless GV in the game!----> truely sad :mad:
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Once again, proof the TIGER is the most over priced and useless GV in the game!----> truely sad :mad:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/3156728435_6b190f865c_o.png)
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/3156728435_6b190f865c_o.png)
wow almost 4:1 yup no need for a relatively hi perk. :rolleyes:
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wow almost 4:1 yup no need for a relatively hi perk. :rolleyes:
Bronk, I think the chart shows that the Sherman is too cheap, more than that the Tiger is too expensive.
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Bronk, I think the chart shows that the Sherman is too cheap, more than that the Tiger is too expensive.
My bad ... I'm up for 10-15 for the sherm.
I'm interested on your thoughts on the wirble.
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I haven't investigated the wirble enough to have more than a gut opinion, but its ENY seems too high. I like them unperked for the fact that they deter vulching, but the number of vehicle perks you can get with one is impressive.
Here's a fun Il-2 picture:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/3155111156_5b41d516a0_o.png)
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Fair enough... here is the reason I ask.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5453/aakilldistrirc9.jpg)
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You realize it's hard to argue that the wirbel should be perked but not the Il-2? :D
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You realize it's hard to argue that the wirbel should be perked but not the Il-2? :D
The 37mm package should be a diff AC and a very light perk. IMO
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The 37mm package should be a diff AC and a very light perk. IMO
Perk Ord System. :noid
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Perk Ord System. :noid
:aok :D
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If the 37mm Il-2 were given a small perk along with the wirbly all would be well. :aok
...at least then we'd have something to spend bomber perks on.
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Fair enough... here is the reason I ask.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5453/aakilldistrirc9.jpg)
I'm afraid this argument isn't sufficient ;)
Wirbel has just the same % of kills as Ostwind had before...and Ostwind wasn't perked either, nor did anybody seriously ask it, IIRC
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Aye but we still have the osti and hows the % on the M-16?
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Lately Ive been noticing IL-2 sticks and friendly armor working together. The tanks focusing on the wirbels, the IL-2s hitting enemy tanks, and, spotting for their own tankers.
Enemy armor seems to have better wirbel protection of the tanks now that guys are adopting. The entire situation has forced people to work together to be effective. The only ones suffering are the campers. Anyone else notice far less, "#### lands 40 kills in his Tiger-ll"? People are only going to take so much spawn camping before they come back with an IL-2.
IL-2 courtesy , at least I try to, is avoid upping them for GV base vs GV base tankfights. Or TT tank fights. If its an airbase however? I'm upping an IL-2 for defense. Another thing I try and do more, now that I'm an IL-2 fanatic, is to run GV supplies out to the tankers more between flights.
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Well we dont want a lethal, historically accurate, tank killer interfering with the rights of AH campers. :lol So lets "dumb the IL-2 down".http://www.vectorsite.net/avil2.html
At the Battle of Kursk was first used PTABs (anti-tank bombs I mentioned above) as primary IL-2 anti-tank weapon. Single IL-2 can carry about 200 (two hundreds) bombs, when dropped from ~150-200 meters they covered about 15 х 200 square meters (1 bomb for 15 sq.m., average area of tank is ~20 sq.m.) and single hit was enough to disable or destroy any tank. Because of large masses of german tanks was crowded at limited spaces, PTABs was very effective, sometimes hitting several tanks with single drop. About 500.000 PTABs was dropped during the Battle of Kursk.
Once again, PTABs was primary IL-2's anti-tank weapon, not guns. Stop spreading myths please.
Speaking about NS-37, though it was able to penetrate armor of medium tanks, real effectiveness vs tanks was quite low. Guns was used agains soft targets mostly.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/3156728435_6b190f865c_o.png)
I don't think this shows the whole picture about the tiger! I would say most people who use tigers, use them very conservatively as the sherman is used very liberaly. If the tiger was used as often and without care as the sherman I believe the K/D for the tiger would be far worse than that of the sherman. You also left out the kill comparison tween tiger and sherman! Which is very close to being even, with the tiger costing 6 times as much :aok Also don't forget to take into account that the tiger is always the 1st consideration of ALL planes that are heavy and looking for GVs.