$%#$ , ^&^%&*% il2`s

[Spikes]

IL2 37mms vs Wirble...either way you'r screwed. You might kill the IL2 but he'll get yout turret.

[Enker]

Panzers can be done with enough angle. T-34/shermans not so much due to slope of armor. Have yet to try a tiger. Betting almost vert from the front will pop em.

Best to hit a tiger with a Hurri IID, they can get the vertical shot a lot easier than the IL-2, as well as that the Vickers disable the turret pretty well.

[Bronk]

Best to hit a tiger with a Hurri IID, they can get the vertical shot a lot easier than the IL-2, as well as that the Vickers disable the turret pretty well.

While I luv the D... It is much easier to  pop tigers with the IL-2 now.  Try off line , I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion.

[1pLUs44]

Panzers can be done with enough angle. T-34/shermans not so much due to slope of armor. Have yet to try a tiger. Betting almost vert from the front will pop em.

Gotta get a pretty good angle on the back of a Tiger to pop it.

[Lusche]

While I luv the D... It is much easier to  pop tigers with the IL-2 now.  Try off line , I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion.

Yup.. I was a avid hurri D flyer until Wirbel came out..

but in direct comparison, Il2 is now the "better" tiger killer, more ammo, higher rof, better trajectory while having almost 40% more energy at the muzzle. It'S much easier to kill Tigers with it.

[Rich46yo]

Well we dont want a lethal, historically accurate, tank killer interfering with the rights of AH campers. So lets "dumb the IL-2 down".http://www.vectorsite.net/avil2.html

The Kursk salient became a storm of combat, but on 13 July Hitler, confronted with the Anglo-American invasion of Sicily, called off CITADEL. The Battle of Kursk was a significant Soviet victory, and would soon lead to rolling back the Germans all along the Eastern Front. The Shturmovik had made a major contribution to the success of Red arms. Il-2s destroyed 70 tanks of the 9th Panzer Division in a mere 20 minutes, inflicted losses of 2,000 men and 270 tanks in two hours of attack on the 3rd Panzer Division, and effectively destroyed the 17th Panzer Division in four hours of strikes, smashing 240 vehicles out of their total of almost 300.

If I remember right this was "above" before the 37mms were added.

The Shturmovik's armor made it generally invulnerable to anything less than 20 millimeter fire. Even that had to be accurate and precise to do the aircraft damage, and an Il-2 moving fast and jinking wildly at low altitude was very hard to hit. Despite their survivability, Shturmovik losses were high, for they fought in the teeth of the worst combat with no place to hide. Soviet factories continued churn out the simple, reliable aircraft, and those that fell were quickly replaced with new aircraft with weaknesses eliminated. Red pilots refined their tactics and training to help reduce the losses.

Or at least thought they were. The Soviets attempted to launch a preemptive air strike early that morning, but the Germans quickly sensed the move and sent up their own fighters, destroying 70 Red aircraft at little loss to themselves. German Army ground units made progress in their attack on the Soviet flanks. Within a day, however, the Soviets rallied, and on 7 July 1943 they responded with overwhelming attacks that smashed German panzer divisions. The Shturmoviks were in their element and delivered hammer blows to enemy tanks.

Against armor in offensive formation, however, they preferred the "Circle of Death" attack, in which a Shturmovik group would flank around the enemy and then peel off successively, each Il-2 making a shallow diving attack, then pulling up and around for another pass. The beauty of the Circle of Death was that it kept the enemy under continuous fire for as long as the aircraft had fuel and ammunition. One Shturmovik pilot, Senior Lieutenant Alexander Yefinov, wrote: "We usually tried to attack from the rear, where the armor was thinner and where the most vulnerable components of the vehicles were located: the engines and the gas tanks." He proudly added that "the effect was staggering as Hitler's celebrated Tigers burned under the strikes." Il-2M3s armed with 37 millimeter guns were able to destroy Panthers and Tigers with their guns alone, blasting into their thinner top armor.

[Oleg]

Oleg, I was just trying to add a bit of info. That is from Tony Williams sight. I think his assessment is accurate.

All my sources said same - 50mm at 200m / 90 deg. Unfortunately, they are all in Russian.

Doesnt really matter too much, anyway, because it can penetrate top armor of any tank for sure.

[shreck]

Tired of these $%#% $^^ il2`s popping my turret or exploding my tigers so damm easily. For 6-7 years they couldn`t now they can and i hate it !!!!! Amazing how they now got this sudden amount of fire power.

Once again, proof the TIGER is the most over priced and useless GV in the game!----> truely sad 

[Anaxogoras]

Once again, proof the TIGER is the most over priced and useless GV in the game!----> truely sad 

[Bronk]

(Image removed from quote.)

wow almost 4:1 yup no need for a relatively hi perk.

[Anaxogoras]

wow almost 4:1 yup no need for a relatively hi perk.

Bronk, I think the chart shows that the Sherman is too cheap, more than that the Tiger is too expensive.

[Bronk]

Bronk, I think the chart shows that the Sherman is too cheap, more than that the Tiger is too expensive.

My bad ... I'm up for 10-15 for the sherm.
I'm interested on your thoughts on the wirble.

[Anaxogoras]

I haven't investigated the wirble enough to have more than a gut opinion, but its ENY seems too high.  I like them unperked for the fact that they deter vulching, but the number of vehicle perks you can get with one is impressive.

Here's a fun Il-2 picture:

[Bronk]

Fair enough... here is the reason I ask.

[Anaxogoras]

You realize it's hard to argue that the wirbel should be perked but not the Il-2?