Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: 1701E on January 13, 2009, 10:56:34 PM
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Currently I am looking for a new PSU. Most likely I won't be getting it til about March, but I figure they can only get cheaper over time, and if worse comes to it I ask again in March.
I am looking to replace my 30$ PSU as it is off-brand and is not the most powerful. I have to get one that is 5.5" (144mm) or smaller in depth to make it worth it; max supported is actually 5.9". I an looking for one that can power a GeForce 9800GTX if at all possible (Currently using a 7900GS). Also if possible I would like Modular. I will put a pic in to show where wires would be best placed coming out of the PSU to allow maximum room. Aside from the 5.5-5.9" depth restriction it is standard sizes for ATX PSU.
This is the room I have to work with on the top level of case (Also HDD is now next to the PSU), my good pics seem to have disappeared on Mediafire. PSU fan is now on bottom, and the PSU is 5.9" long.
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1bc78a7dea0e749feeb2ec608f3a074b4g.jpg)
As seen the Wires would be best coming out so they come into that big empty space next to (not overlapping) the Optical drive.
So anyone know a good PSU that fits this? Sorry I'm picky, but this new case, as sweet as it is, is a tiny bit small on PSU space.
And the GPU I asked about in December, I never got due to some financial issues, and plan to get a better one after a PSU upgrade anyways.
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NEW PSU = NEW CPU + NEW MOTHERBOARD + NEW CASE.... Just kidding. Post brand and model of computer if you cannot post pic.
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Some good advice to consider when selecting a new PSU: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page1.html
-C+
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Modular while cool looking is not a great idea since it adds another failure point into the line.
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Modular while cool looking is not a great idea since it adds another failure point into the line.
Failure point? Can you please explain this to me. I am a system builder by trade and an overclocker (world ranked) and I have been using modular since then came out. They increase airflow thru the case (heat is the biggest enemy of a computer) since your only using the needed cables. The cabling attaches to a PSU securely same way the power cables connect to the MB in most cases (Tagan and a few others are exceptions). Every high end builder, boutique system builder, pick your parts builders I know prefer and charge extra (along with the PSU makers) for using Modular.
With over 1800 systems built with modular PSU's and not one failure due to PSU (lots of MB's) please please tell me about failure points.
As for the poster, need system maker or case specs to actually recommend a PSU
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The failure point is in the connector.
Every mechanical link is a potential failure point, where the contact can become contaminated and/or corroded creating high resistance and low voltage transfers (even a few mV can have a significant effect) or higher than intended loads.
Yes you can get gold plated connectors, but even they are not immune to contamination.
It's pretty easy to tie off unused cables and place them in an area that does not impede airflow.
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SD67 is on track. As a EE, I can tell you that the cheap connectors used in those modular supplies are a source for noise (via capacitance) to be introduced into the computer circuits.
The ripple introduced is bad enough that it will serve to shorten the life of various components in the system. Of course, that could still mean years, or months. The levels of noise will vary. The levels of damage will vary. The ripple also introduces more unwanted heat into the system, as the components have to deal with the ripple, which is done by dissipation of the excess current as heat. These properties get more and more exaggerated over time due to the connectors resistance increasing through the long term effects of capacitance discharge.
If you hooked up a good quality scope today, then again in 6 months, then again in another 6 months, you would see how those cheap connectors are causing potential damage to your computer.
If the power supply companies used a high quality gasless connector, such as a Euro-style connector, it would be a non-issue, but the supplies would cost quite a bit more money. It is a bit ironic. As those connectors get worse, the power supply will have to compensate by generating more power, which causes the effects of those connectors to get worse, which causes the supply to generate more power,..and so on.
These effects are a known quantity and have been known for over 30 years. It is the reason there are high quality gasless connectors on the market.
While I am not crazy about the bundle of cables left over, they can be dressed completely out of the way. It really depends on the computer case design. I had no problems dressing the cables out of the way in my computer. Everything runs nice and cool.
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Well modular or no, I am using an Aerocool M40 Cube case.
If need be I have some extra room for cables.
As I now notice that MediaFire doesn't like me as it deleted all my files I had, including the original hosted image.
The Case looks like this:
The HDD cage is not installed in the same spot on mine due to it hits my GPU/PSU:
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/xoxide_2035_97255281)
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/xoxide_2035_97395677)
Lower Level: Cooling consists of 1x 120mm intake and 2x 80mm fans.
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/xoxide_2035_97490267)
Amazingly it Fits PSU sizes of standard ATX aside from the 144mm limitation in Depth.
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The failure point is in the connector.
Every mechanical link is a potential failure point, where the contact can become contaminated and/or corroded creating high resistance and low voltage transfers (even a few mV can have a significant effect) or higher than intended loads.
Yes you can get gold plated connectors, but even they are not immune to contamination.
It's pretty easy to tie off unused cables and place them in an area that does not impede airflow.
SD67 is on track. As a EE, I can tell you that the cheap connectors used in those modular supplies are a source for noise (via capacitance) to be introduced into the computer circuits.
The ripple introduced is bad enough that it will serve to shorten the life of various components in the system. Of course, that could still mean years, or months. The levels of noise will vary. The levels of damage will vary. The ripple also introduces more unwanted heat into the system, as the components have to deal with the ripple, which is done by dissipation of the excess current as heat. These properties get more and more exaggerated over time due to the connectors resistance increasing through the long term effects of capacitance discharge.
If you hooked up a good quality scope today, then again in 6 months, then again in another 6 months, you would see how those cheap connectors are causing potential damage to your computer.
If the power supply companies used a high quality gasless connector, such as a Euro-style connector, it would be a non-issue, but the supplies would cost quite a bit more money. It is a bit ironic. As those connectors get worse, the power supply will have to compensate by generating more power, which causes the effects of those connectors to get worse, which causes the supply to generate more power,..and so on.
These effects are a known quantity and have been known for over 30 years. It is the reason there are high quality gasless connectors on the market.
While I am not crazy about the bundle of cables left over, they can be dressed completely out of the way. It really depends on the computer case design. I had no problems dressing the cables out of the way in my computer. Everything runs nice and cool.
Now the same connectors are used at the other end of the PSU to the components, yes I agree using modular will have dbl the amount of connectors (one at each end) but again (Yes Skuzzy I agree with the meters loss over time) the amount of loss voltage is so small, their will be no visible effect on the components or system overall. IMHO I think the advantages out weigh the disadvantages
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It is not the voltage loss that is an issue really. It is the noise/ripple introduced into the power feed that is the primary issue with the connectors.
You are free to have your own opinion about this, but the long term effects of the connectors being used is quantifiable and documented.
I am sure you can find public papers written on this topic. In a previous life, I qualified power supplies for the company I worked for. I learned more than I wanted to know about power supplies.
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Hey now you two, see rule #2 :D .
Looks like I'll get normal, non-modular. Any ideas for a good one 144mm or less deep?
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Ahhhhh 1701e,..the title is simply "PSU". I am pretty sure the discussion was about power supplies. :)
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Mr.technicality strikes a hard blow. :D
Anyways I was looking at two PSUs that fit and have good power ratings, but I want to get a good brand.
I am looking at a 550Watt Rosewill PSU (2x 12V rails each at 18A) 60$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182030
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A 550Watt Corsair (41A on single 12V rail) 80$ after Mail-in rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004
Which would be better, or is there an even better one? Hard to look since NE hates listing the sizes of these.
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I'd drop the thought on the Rosewill:
BFG is sourcing the power supply from the same Chinese company that many others are using, including Antec, Rosewill, and a barrage of others.
I would not trust that supply. The Chinese company making all those supplies are using very cheap capacitors. It might last a year in regular use, but when it goes, it will probably take everything else with it.
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Well, Corsair does not actually make thier supplies either, but the Rosewill one is a straight-up OEM supply with their name on it. I would not touch it with a ten foot pole.
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Well, is there at least a certain brand name that is best to look for? OCZ, Coolmax, PC Power & Cooling, Antc, Thermaltake, etc.
If I can at least establish a what brands are best to look for and avoid, I can search much easier. Not even sure what brand my current one is, all the box says is "PC Power Supply" [Made in Thailand]. Lasted almost a year now though.
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PC Power & Cooling and OCZ are good brands. I prefer PCP&C, though.
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Seasonic is actually a pretty decent supply and they make supplies for a number of other companies as well.
There are probably only 4, maybe 5 power supply manufacturers left on the planet who make all the supplies for all these companies selling them. In some cases, the supply is a generic supply being sold under 20 different names, in other cases the supply is built to a specific design standard and maybe only being sold under 10 different names.
It is a grab bag at times.
What makes it really hard are WEB sites which claim to be doing a review of a power supply only to find they will never say anything negative about any company that advertises on their site. So, before you go off reading the reviews, make sure to check who is advertising with them first.
On the other hand, that same WEB site might just rip apart a company product if they do not advertise on their WEB site.
It's all pretty cheesy. It is virtually impossible to find a true objective review of computer parts anywhere on the Internet. eagl, I know you are a big fan of that one site, but that site has proven more than once, they will bury a product if you piss them off. The bias is strong with that lot. To the point where you never know if anything they say is true or not. They wrecked their own credibility as far as I am concerned.
They are not the only ones though and stand in good company with others who are just as big.
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Wow Skuzzy SeaSonic Power Supplies are perfect. The one I am looking at (650Watt version) is 139mm long, and supplies enough power for everything.
Little high on the price, but that is understandable since I am looking for higher-end parts. Currently it is 160$ before 30 Mail-in rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151028
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eagl, I know you are a big fan of that one site, but that site has proven more than once, they will bury a product if you piss them off. The bias is strong with that lot. To the point where you never know if anything they say is true or not. They wrecked their own credibility as far as I am concerned.
Who's eagl?
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Seems pointless to start a new thread when my question is on PSUs. Plus this one is not over 30 days old.
I was just curious, is a "+2.5V reading at 1.22V" bad? My BIOS shows no 2.5V, but Everest and the PSU label both show one, and I wanted to make sure it was not something to worry about, or uf it is I want to go ahead and fix it.
All my others read fine, Everest shows:
Voltage Values
CPU 1.18V
+2.5V 1.22V
+3.3V 3.42V
+5V 5.05V
+12V 11.97V - 12.03V
+5V Standby 4.92V
VBAT Battery 3.14V
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I've never heard of a 2.5V line.
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That has to be a typo. There is a 1.5v, but no 2.5V. At any rate, 1.22V is a bit low for the 1.5V. Matter of fact, that is right on the edge of the operational envelope.
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Well I'm not sure how I have two typos, but if there is no 2.5V rail, I guess I am unlucky.
Is it bad enough to think about replacing the PSU as soon as possible? Or would it be fine for a while?
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Do the values drift? It is always possible for the BIOS reading to be off.
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The strange thing is the value is not even shown in BIOS. It only shows on Everest, however it does go from 1.20 to 1.26 at times of gaming.
Is there a chance Everest is lying about a rail?