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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: WarTooth on January 16, 2009, 08:36:06 AM

Title: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: WarTooth on January 16, 2009, 08:36:06 AM
Guys,

Most feel it is a good thing to let new guys fly the uber planes to learn the game (perked and unperked).  There are a few planes where the debate rages over the lack of perking.  The LA7 and Spit16 for example.  :furious

Suggestion
For pilot accounts over 6 months old perk the LA7 and Spit16.

Some common type defensive responses to this type thing are:
etc. etc. etc.  All True.  :aok

Staying on point my question is:
Would having this feature be better than not having it?  Would game play be improved (even slightly) with it?

Thanks for considering,  :salute

WT
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: LLogann on January 16, 2009, 09:04:29 AM
Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.



Select a tour to see the planes's statistics.
                   

Late War Tour 107 Statistics for all planes
Plane Name    Kills    Deaths    Kill/Death Ratio

Panzer IV H    64799    82067    0.79
Wirbelwind           50123    30058    1.67
Sherman VC    48433    18890    2.56
P-51D           40771    37627    1.08
Spitfire Mk XVI    31709    29742    1.07
N1K2             20300    17981    1.13
Il-2                   19500    17029    1.15
Typhoon IB    19390    13353    1.45
F4U-1D           15543    20116    0.77
La-7                   15371    14557    1.06
Tiger I           15252    4007            3.81
T-34/85           14630    10496    1.39
SeaFire           13389    16489    0.81
P-38J           11822    6796            1.74
Fw 190D-9           11618    7902            1.47
F6F-5           11420    15202    0.75
Spitfire Mk VIII    10986    11848    0.93
A6M5b            10952    12662    0.86
F4U-1A             9957    6856            1.45
Hurricane Mk IIC    9722            6928            1.40
P-38L             9523    13291    0.72
Bf 110G-2             9401    15383    0.61
Fw 190A-8             9257    8356            1.11
F4U-1C             9093    3655            2.49
Spitfire Mk IX    8630      8142     1.06
Ki-84-Ia             8537    6637     1.29
Bf 109K-4      8031     6380     1.26
B-24J            6938           17786    0.39
Ostwind            6612            6248     1.06
P-47-D40       5919     7172     0.83
Tempest            5489       804       6.83
A-20G            5482            4206      1.30
T-34/76            5217      9644      0.54
Bf 109G-14    5069            4298     1.18
PT Boat            4758     13932    0.34
Yak-9U            4748      5647     0.84
Lancaster III    4540     19236    0.24
M-8              4431     6938     0.64
Mosquito Mk VI    4232            5024     0.84
B-17G            3977     10883    0.37
Fw 190A-5     3890     3716     1.05
F4U-4            3744     1564     2.39
B-25H            3681      7981     0.46
C.205            3593     3461     1.04
P-47N            3552      4901     0.72
FM2               3486     3990     0.87
Me 262            3367     704            4.78
LVTA4            3015     8735     0.35
P-51B            2818      3329     0.85
M-3                    2579     14600    0.18
Bf 109G-6            2572     2957     0.87
B-26B            2530      7699            0.33
Ta 152H           2351            1565           1.50
LVTA2           2263            7881           0.29
Bf 109G-2           2215           2166           1.02
F4U-1           2051          2068           0.99
P-47-D25           1986           1584           1.25
Ki-61           1934           1604           1.21
Yak-9T           1833           2145           0.85
La-5FN           1608           1771           0.91
Spitfire Mk V    1404           2583           0.54
Bf 109F-4           1389           1565           0.89
Fw 190F-8           1325           1999           0.66
Spitfire Mk XIV    1213           1028           1.18
P-40E           1210           1578           0.77
P-47-D11           1207           1105           1.09
P-38G           1157           1098           1.05
M-16           1041           2232           0.47
P-39Q           969           1472           0.66
A6M2           938           2100           0.45
Ju 88           890           7060           0.13
Hurricane Mk IID    750           1659           0.45
TBM-3           611           4146           0.15
F4F-4           503           806           0.62
Hurricane Mk I    463           1179           0.39
Me 163B           437           106           4.12
P-39D           372           773           0.48
C.202           358           644           0.56
Ar 234           332           796           0.42
B-25C           320           2563           0.12
Ju 87D-3           319           1136           0.28
Ki-67           318           1497           0.21
C-47A           309           6520           0.05
Bf 110C-4b    307           658           0.47
Jeep                  271           3290           0.08
P-40B           267           1056           0.25
SBD-5           265           1183           0.22
B5N2                  261           915           0.29
Spitfire Mk I    259           1149           0.23
Boston III           192           1122           0.17
Bf 109E-4           189           547           0.35
D3A1           143           593           0.24
SdKfz 251           109           814           0.13

Totals           650737    695661    0.94


Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Lusche on January 16, 2009, 09:16:41 AM

Staying on point my question is:
Would having this feature be better than not having it?  Would game play be improved (even slightly) with it?


1) No

2) No

Also, how old one player's account is doesn't mean anything. You could still be at "n00b" skill level after 4 years just because you don't have the time to fly more than a few hours per week. Or a "vet" can simply make a new account after 6 months.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 16, 2009, 09:19:20 AM
Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.

If you look at a broad cross-section of performance statistics the Spit XVI ranks with or above the F4U-1C.  The La-7, on the other hand, has weaknesses, e.g. low velocity cannon, poor performance at 10k ft.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: LLogann on January 16, 2009, 09:19:54 AM
Lusche I should have let you put a graph up, mine looks bad.   :D
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: SmokinLoon on January 16, 2009, 09:21:30 AM
Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.



Select a tour to see the planes's statistics.
                   

Late War Tour 107 Statistics for all planes
Plane Name    Kills    Deaths    Kill/Death Ratio

Panzer IV H    64799    82067    0.79
Wirbelwind           50123    30058    1.67
Sherman VC    48433    18890    2.56
P-51D           40771    37627    1.08
Spitfire Mk XVI    31709    29742    1.07
N1K2             20300    17981    1.13
Il-2                   19500    17029    1.15
Typhoon IB    19390    13353    1.45
F4U-1D           15543    20116    0.77
La-7                   15371    14557    1.06
Tiger I           15252    4007            3.81
T-34/85           14630    10496    1.39
SeaFire           13389    16489    0.81
P-38J           11822    6796            1.74
Fw 190D-9           11618    7902            1.47
F6F-5           11420    15202    0.75
Spitfire Mk VIII    10986    11848    0.93
A6M5b            10952    12662    0.86
F4U-1A             9957    6856            1.45
Hurricane Mk IIC    9722            6928            1.40
P-38L             9523    13291    0.72
Bf 110G-2             9401    15383    0.61
Fw 190A-8             9257    8356            1.11
F4U-1C             9093    3655            2.49
Spitfire Mk IX    8630      8142     1.06
Ki-84-Ia             8537    6637     1.29
Bf 109K-4      8031     6380     1.26
B-24J            6938           17786    0.39
Ostwind            6612            6248     1.06
P-47-D40       5919     7172     0.83
Tempest            5489       804       6.83
A-20G            5482            4206      1.30
T-34/76            5217      9644      0.54
Bf 109G-14    5069            4298     1.18
PT Boat            4758     13932    0.34
Yak-9U            4748      5647     0.84
Lancaster III    4540     19236    0.24
M-8              4431     6938     0.64
Mosquito Mk VI    4232            5024     0.84
B-17G            3977     10883    0.37
Fw 190A-5     3890     3716     1.05
F4U-4            3744     1564     2.39
B-25H            3681      7981     0.46
C.205            3593     3461     1.04
P-47N            3552      4901     0.72
FM2               3486     3990     0.87
Me 262            3367     704            4.78
LVTA4            3015     8735     0.35
P-51B            2818      3329     0.85
M-3                    2579     14600    0.18
Bf 109G-6            2572     2957     0.87
B-26B            2530      7699            0.33
Ta 152H           2351            1565           1.50
LVTA2           2263            7881           0.29
Bf 109G-2           2215           2166           1.02
F4U-1           2051          2068           0.99
P-47-D25           1986           1584           1.25
Ki-61           1934           1604           1.21
Yak-9T           1833           2145           0.85
La-5FN           1608           1771           0.91
Spitfire Mk V    1404           2583           0.54
Bf 109F-4           1389           1565           0.89
Fw 190F-8           1325           1999           0.66
Spitfire Mk XIV    1213           1028           1.18
P-40E           1210           1578           0.77
P-47-D11           1207           1105           1.09
P-38G           1157           1098           1.05
M-16           1041           2232           0.47
P-39Q           969           1472           0.66
A6M2           938           2100           0.45
Ju 88           890           7060           0.13
Hurricane Mk IID    750           1659           0.45
TBM-3           611           4146           0.15
F4F-4           503           806           0.62
Hurricane Mk I    463           1179           0.39
Me 163B           437           106           4.12
P-39D           372           773           0.48
C.202           358           644           0.56
Ar 234           332           796           0.42
B-25C           320           2563           0.12
Ju 87D-3           319           1136           0.28
Ki-67           318           1497           0.21
C-47A           309           6520           0.05
Bf 110C-4b    307           658           0.47
Jeep                  271           3290           0.08
P-40B           267           1056           0.25
SBD-5           265           1183           0.22
B5N2                  261           915           0.29
Spitfire Mk I    259           1149           0.23
Boston III           192           1122           0.17
Bf 109E-4           189           547           0.35
D3A1           143           593           0.24
SdKfz 251           109           814           0.13

Totals           650737    695661    0.94




A K/D ratio is not a good judge as to whether or not a plane needs perking, imo.  The actual attributes of the aircraft are.  Even then... the "uber-few" still are where on the list???
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 16, 2009, 10:16:22 AM

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The idea that there is "nothing special" about the La7/Spit16 is one of the second type and whoever said it ought to be ashamed of themselves. ;)

Okay, here is some of the 3rd type:

Late War Tour 108 Statistics for BnZs
     Kills    Deaths
   Kills In    Kills Of  KilledBy Died In
A-20G    0    1    0    0
A6M5b    0    5    0    0
B-24J    0    5    1    0
B-26B    0    1    1    0
B5N2    0    1    0    0
Bf 109F-4    0    2    0    0
Bf 109G-14    0    1    2    0
Bf 109G-2    0    1    0    0
Bf 110G-2    0    1    0    0
C-47A    0    1    0    0
C.205    0    1    0    0
F4U-1A    0    1    1    0
F4U-1D    0    2    0    0
F6F-5    0    1    0    0
Fw 190A-5    9    2    0    6
Fw 190A-8    0    4    1    0
Fw 190D-9    4    1    4    1
Hurricane Mk IIC    0    2    2    1
Il-2    0    1    0    0
Ki-61    0    1    0    0
Ki-84-Ia    0    2    0    0
La-5FN    0    1    0    0
La-7          20    3    2    3
Lancaster III    0    1    0    0
Mosquito Mk VI    0    1    0    0
N1K2    0    3    3    0
P-38G    0    1    0    0
P-38J    0    1    0    0
P-38L    0    2    0    0
P-39D    0    0    1    0
P-47-D11    0    1    0    0
P-47-D40    0    3    0    0
P-47N    12    1    0    3
P-51D    4    8    4    0
SeaFire    12    1    1    10
Sherman VC    2    1    2    2
Ship Gunner    3    0    1    0
Spitfire Mk I    0    1    0    0
Spitfire Mk V    0    1    0    0
Spitfire Mk VIII    0    2    0    0
Spitfire Mk XVI    11    11    0    2
T-34/76    0    1    0    0
T-34/85    0    1    0    0
Ta 152H    2    0    0    0
Tempest    3    0    1    1
Typhoon IB    0    1    2    0
Wirbelwind    4    1    2    2
Yak-9U    0    2    0    0
     86 Kills    31 Deaths

....Now I am not a trained statistician, but there are a couple of k/d ratios that stick out right there for me, especially when you consider I have used the SpitXVI and La7 exclusively for desperate base defense while pissed off and flying like a lunatic, instead of in a cool and predatory manner. Gentleman, I am not that good. The plane does make a difference. I'm not 100% saying they must be perked, I am saying there is some reason to the idea of perking them.

As to OPs idea though...all I can say is damn yer eyes if you think I ought to have to pay more perk points to fly X because I've been paying to play this fine game for awhile. I'd cancel my account if they slapped me in the face with something like that.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Lusche on January 16, 2009, 10:34:06 AM

Late War Tour 108 Statistics for BnZs
 

Using personal statistics to judge a plane's capability, or even the impact of a certain plane in a certain arena have only anecdotal value. Nothing more. It all depends on thing like  how used a player is to a certain plane, in what situation does he fly it, what's his preferred fighting style. And most of all, it simply lacks sufficient data...with  a handfull kills & deaths only, luck plays a very prominent role.

Snailmans overall K/D (all tours with this handle)
P-51B 16.73
190A-5 14.7
La-7 9
F4U-4 8.83
Spit XVI 5.72

Whoa, P-51B and the A-5 must be much better planes than LA, Spit 16 or F4U-4...  ;)
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 16, 2009, 10:38:03 AM
Yeah, but I know specifically what situations I have used these planes in 100% of the time this tour. Situations where with most planes, a k/d of 1:1 would be doing well.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: indy007 on January 16, 2009, 10:57:12 AM
Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.

Perk those damn 262s, Tempys, F4U4, C-Hogs, 163s, and Tiger Is!  :furious

oh wait...
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Karnak on January 16, 2009, 11:37:05 AM
If you look at a broad cross-section of performance statistics the Spit XVI ranks with or above the F4U-1C.  The La-7, on the other hand, has weaknesses, e.g. low velocity cannon, poor performance at 10k ft.
I don't care what your numbers say, their impact on the arena is not excessive.  The P-51D has more kills and deaths and is showing increased use over the other "big 4" with only the Spitfire Mk XVI holding even.  Perk the La-7, N1K2 and Spitfire Mk XVI as many demand and all you'll do is reduce the variety in the MA as the P-51D gains even more.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 16, 2009, 11:57:04 AM
I don't care what your numbers say, their impact on the arena is not excessive.  The P-51D has more kills and deaths and is showing increased use over the other "big 4" with only the Spitfire Mk XVI holding even.  Perk the La-7, N1K2 and Spitfire Mk XVI as many demand and all you'll do is reduce the variety in the MA as the P-51D gains even more.

Karnak, the only reason the XVI doesn't excessively impact the arena is because a lot of the more experienced pilots refuse to fly them because of the stigma. ;)  If you took all those P-38J pilots (best K/D for non-perked fighter) and forced them to fly XVIs instead, its K/D ratio would far surpass any other non-perked ride, despite all the newbs who fly it (my guess is it would be more than 2:1).  Keep in mind that the XVI is also the ride of choice for base defense, which is another factor that keeps its K/D low.

What's more, if we emphasize turn-rate and other furballing criteria, the XVI is even better than the XIV. :D

The 51D's usage is high because a lot of Americans are intoxicated with it.  I'm sure the 190 or 109's usage would be a lot higher if most players were German.  In terms of performance the 51 is far behind its total use; a lot of the time it's used as a high-speed ords porker.

The N1K is the most over-rated 5 ENY aircraft in the game.  It's slow.  It rolls poorly.  Its success is only due to idiotic flying by the opposition, which amplifies its cannons and turn-rate.

Again, a lot of people have a hard time aiming the cannons on the La-7, and if you're not flying it 5k ft and below you're outside of its best performance.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Lusche on January 16, 2009, 12:01:22 PM
Karnak, the only reason the XVI doesn't excessively impact the arena is because a lot of the more experienced pilots refuse to fly them because of the stigma. ;)  If you took all those P-38J pilots (best K/D for non-perked fighter) and forced them to fly XVIs instead, its K/D ratio would far surpass any other non-perked ride, despite all the newbs who fly it (my guess is it would be more than 2:1).  Keep in mind that the XVI is also the ride of choice for base defense, which is another factor that keeps its K/D low.

And therefore, no unbalancing effect on gameplay -> no need to perk it :)
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 16, 2009, 12:05:09 PM
And therefore, no unbalancing effect on gameplay -> no need to perk it :)

Invalid deduction.  By that logic, the XIV should be unperked simply because it isn't used effectively.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Lusche on January 16, 2009, 12:08:53 PM
Invalid deduction.  By that logic, the XIV should be unperked simply because it isn't used effectively.

No way invalid at all.
Fact is the XVI is not, and has never been unbalancing the arena in any way. Just perking because it could when it actually never did is invalid logic.
Actually your "If all those top notch P-38j would only fly the 16" logic can be applied to almost every plane in the planeset :)

And yes, by that logic the XIV really should be unperked.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 16, 2009, 12:16:27 PM
I'm not opposed to unperking the XIV.  That thing is a beast to fly.

Still, if the 262 were not perked, but everyone flew it in such a way that it never had more than a 1:1 K/D ratio, that would not be an argument against perking it.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Karnak on January 16, 2009, 12:19:47 PM
Anaxogoras,

You are stating as fact things you are only guessing at.  In addition you fail to explain why the P-51's use is increasing lately.  It isn't like Americans have suddenly become more infatuated with it.

And some Americans, such as myself, aren't at all infatuated with it and consider it overhyped.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 16, 2009, 01:32:29 PM
It correlates pretty darn well with the decline in N1K use:

(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5848/clipboard01oz2.jpg)

But truly, only the gods know why the P-51D's use has increased lately. :D
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: WarTooth on January 16, 2009, 01:35:56 PM
Stats are only true within a limited context.  When you are reading them perhaps (or not).

If you are at a base and 6 cons are up and 4 of them are Spit16s all 5k above you the stats that say most people don't up Spit16s and the like won't help you.  You cannot instantly transport back to base to re-up another plane or change your altitude.

We all deal in perceptions here.  Whether they are right or wrong.  The planes are flown based on ever evolving beliefs on what they do or don't do (opponent plane's included).

There is no answer to the perking of planes pros and cons.  I certainly don't know.

You guys have help me realize that the premise for my request was based on BS.  Please delete this post from your memory. 

My apologizes.  :salute

WT

Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: LLogann on January 16, 2009, 01:39:31 PM
Actually I think it is the only judgment on perked planes.....
A K/D ratio is not a good judge as to whether or not a plane needs perking, imo.  
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Karnak on January 16, 2009, 01:47:02 PM
It correlates pretty darn well with the decline in N1K use:
Yes it does, but the people likely to favor the N1K2-J don't seem to be the type to enjoy the P-51's style, they are practically opposites.  They also don't strike me as the people who care about a plane's history.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 16, 2009, 02:03:51 PM
I'm favorable to the explanation that a chunk of N1K pilots liked the 51 for historical reasons but weren't good enough to fly it.  The only things the N1K does well are what the Pony does most poorly: turn and firepower, both of which are easy enough for a new player to make use of.  Speed and roll-rate, on the other hand, usually require a skilled pilot to make them effective attributes.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Karnak on January 16, 2009, 04:04:01 PM
Speaking from experience, speed does not take much skill to make use of.  Roll rate, yes, but speed, no.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Cajunn on January 16, 2009, 05:32:25 PM
I don't think that would work I know ppl that been playing the game for a couple of years and are still not that great....like me :lol
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 16, 2009, 06:46:25 PM
Speaking from experience, speed does not take much skill to make use of.  Roll rate, yes, but speed, no.

Unless you use it for something *other* than running away. Like converting to energy in the vertical, or using section tactics for set-ups. Then it can be quite abit more difficult than situations where you can saddle up-turn until the target fills the windcreen-*BOOM*.

IMO, roll rate sorta "pads" your ACM, if that makes any sense. You don't have to predict where he's going to be quite accurately if you can readjust with a brisk roll rate, you don't have to pick up that bandit on our six quite as soon if you can get out of phase quicker.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Becinhu on January 16, 2009, 07:00:13 PM
Where's your G-14 stats Lusche? Seems to be all your in when you shoot me down... ;)
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Karnak on January 16, 2009, 11:08:02 PM
Unless you use it for something *other* than running away. Like converting to energy in the vertical, or using section tactics for set-ups. Then it can be quite abit more difficult than situations where you can saddle up-turn until the target fills the windcreen-*BOOM*.

IMO, roll rate sorta "pads" your ACM, if that makes any sense. You don't have to predict where he's going to be quite accurately if you can readjust with a brisk roll rate, you don't have to pick up that bandit on our six quite as soon if you can get out of phase quicker.
I agree about the roll rate, but I found speed very easy to use as a tool to get guns on target and as a tool to increase survivability.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 17, 2009, 12:13:54 AM
I found speed very easy to use as a tool to get guns on target...

When you were new to online air combat? ;)
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: Karnak on January 17, 2009, 02:58:21 AM
When you were new to online air combat? ;)
Fairly new.  Not the first month, no, but soon thereafter.  And I'll also note that I could do a lot more with a Spitfire than just turn as tight as I could by then too.  It isn't like the Spitfire is only capable of trying to bite its own tail.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 17, 2009, 03:02:00 AM
Eh, we've all played this game, we all know what the score is.

A fast brick gets frustrating because of the difficulty following things around to shoot them, a turny kite gets frustrating when you can't catch anything or get cornered and bnz'ed to death by 5 of 'em.

Real life, I want the fast plane so I can run to live when it gets too hot, as far as which is more desirable in a game however, I say 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: FYB on January 17, 2009, 10:38:52 AM
1) No

2) No

Also, how old one player's account is doesn't mean anything. You could still be at "n00b" skill level after 4 years just because you don't have the time to fly more than a few hours per week. Or a "vet" can simply make a new account after 6 months.
Ive been playing for a year and a half and im a nub cake. Its true, i dont play very often. But i have to agree with Lusche.

1) No

2) No

-FYB
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: E25280 on January 17, 2009, 10:47:42 AM
Eh, we've all played this game, we all know what the score is.

A fast brick gets frustrating because of the difficulty following things around to shoot them, a turny kite gets frustrating when you can't catch anything or get cornered and bnz'ed to death by 5 of 'em.

Real life, I want the fast plane so I can run to live when it gets too hot, as far as which is more desirable in a game however, I say 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.
What is especially amusing to me is when those in the runstangs get all whiney when the "turny kite" gets a HO shot on them.   :D
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 17, 2009, 11:51:21 AM
What is especially amusing to me is when those in the runstangs get all whiney when the "turny kite" gets a HO shot on them.   :D

There is no sensible reason to HO in any situation where one can survive either by turning or using speed. The *only* way anyone ever survives a HO shot without severe damage/mutual destruction for both parties is that one party was actually trying to avoid it. So, unless you are in really deep and going to be dead soon anyway, there are a million more sensible things you can do. HOing instead of using them is a form of griefing.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: E25280 on January 17, 2009, 04:10:44 PM
There is no sensible reason to HO in any situation where one can survive either by turning or using speed. The *only* way anyone ever survives a HO shot without severe damage/mutual destruction for both parties is that one party was actually trying to avoid it. So, unless you are in really deep and going to be dead soon anyway, there are a million more sensible things you can do. HOing instead of using them is a form of griefing.
:rofl

Please, then, keep doing your non-griefing by BnZing a turny plane for ten minutes.  If the guy on the receiving end gets bored after three, though, expect a HO.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 17, 2009, 06:00:35 PM
:rofl

Please, then, keep doing your non-griefing by BnZing a turny plane for ten minutes.  If the guy on the receiving end gets bored after three, though, expect a HO.

Looks like someone needs to get back on the ADD meds...

Oh, btw, here is how you shoot down a faster plane b'n'zing you *without* HOing: Generate an overshoot, hit your shot before they get out of range. Simple, though not necessarily easy. But both parties have gunnery difficulties in the E fighter vs. angles fighter match-up.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: E25280 on January 17, 2009, 07:02:20 PM
Looks like someone needs to get back on the ADD meds...

Oh, btw, here is how you shoot down a faster plane b'n'zing you *without* HOing: Generate an overshoot, hit your shot before they get out of range. Simple, though not necessarily easy. But both parties have gunnery difficulties in the E fighter vs. angles fighter match-up.
:rofl

Now anyone who disagrees with your concept of what qualifies as griefing in the game needs meds . . .

"Simple, though not necessarily easy."

You keep getting funnier!


I have completely lost patience with "safety flyers."  Once I recognize one, I go for the face shot just to get rid of him.  9 times out of 10 they end up running and whining about the mean old target who won't cooperate with him.
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 17, 2009, 07:33:38 PM
Sorry, but you are the one who comes off as whiny if you believe someone not flying as you wish constitutes a legitimate reason to embrace what is otherwise a frowned-upon and unproductive practice. You can do what you want to of course, I'm just saying that it is not different than going about spraying people on the initial merge.


"You keep getting funnier!"

I guarantee you, give Batfink a Stuka and you take a Tempest or a 262, doesn't matter. He'll still be able to dodge your passes and chew parts off as you go. If I don't have the timing and accuracy to hit back at the guy bnz'ing me like I want to...well that would be MY fault now wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: E25280 on January 18, 2009, 12:38:09 AM
Sorry, but you are the one who comes off as whiny if you believe someone not flying as you wish constitutes a legitimate reason to embrace what is otherwise a frowned-upon and unproductive practice.
:rofl
In the same breath you "frown upon" how someone else flys, and yet you claim I am the one saying someone shouldn't fly in a way I don't wish?

You're a riot!

I don't care if someone BnZs me all day long.  If I get bored with it, though, he will end up with a face full.  The fact someone else may "frown upon" me for doing so only makes the subsequent whining funnier.

And actually, I find it very productive in certain situations.  If you don't, more power to you.  I wouldn't dream of telling you how you should or shouldn't fly, nor would I call someone a "griefer" for any type of "fighting" style.  I'll leave all of that up to you.   :D
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 18, 2009, 02:06:13 PM
It is not so much the HOing, it is the idea that you have some sort of "justification" for it that makes you different from other HOers. Well, sorry no, it is just the same as spraying everything you meet head-on, which one can of course do, its your $15, but like I say, don't kid yourself that its any different.

A good shot in a Spit Mk1 can end your sortie in a HO pass, no matter how many cannons your bird possesses. So therefore, HOing when you have any other option is undeniably stupid. One wonders what you do when you get "bored" with a Typhoon...oh so bravely commit suicide?

And I don't know what you mean "bnz" here. If someone is making one pass at you and heading for the horizon, then you have ample time to extend in the opposite direction in a cruise climb, forcing them to have a longer chase each time they come back-thus gradually equalizing the E. Or in the big picture, you can be gradually moving the fight under friendlies who may have the E to catch the bandit.

Took me perhaps 10 minutes of dodge, refuse to get roped, extend and gain E, to slow this Pony down, equalize the E, and get in the saddle. I suppose I should have gotten "bored" after 3 and just hosed him in the face, probably ending my sortie as well.

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1je92wgmxq (http://www.mediafire.com/?d1je92wgmxq)

On the other hand, if you *survive* 10 minutes of someone bnz'ing you in the proper manner, you should praise whatever diety has made crooked the aim of a pilot who is otherwise proved your master in aerial maneuvering. Hope it's me and not Widewing, he don't miss...  :D

http://www.mediafire.com/?1vgdz0332xm (http://www.mediafire.com/?1vgdz0332xm)


Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: E25280 on January 18, 2009, 02:45:46 PM
It is not so much the HOing, it is the idea that you have some sort of "justification" for it that makes you different from other HOers. Well, sorry no, it is just the same as spraying everything you meet head-on, which one can of course do, its your $15, but like I say, don't kid yourself that its any different.  Where did I say I was any different?  Just said I've come to a point where I am bored chasing safety flyers.  It annoys me to finally get to a relatively equal altitude and/or speed only to see the runstang dive for the deck and exit.  Complete waste of my time as far as I am concerned.  Ergo, when recognizing the type and if given the opportunity, I will face shoot them.  If they whine about it afterwards, so much the better!

A good shot in a Spit Mk1 can end your sortie in a HO pass, no matter how many cannons your bird possesses. Agreed. So therefore, HOing when you have any other option is undeniably stupid. Why?  Planes are free and no one really dies.  If it amuses me to face shoot a safety flyer, I'll do it!" One wonders what you do when you get "bored" with a Typhoon...oh so bravely commit suicide? :rofl Takes no bravery to commit cartoon suicide.  But, if you must know, I don't care what flavor of safety flyer it is -- runstang, run90, run09, runtyph, runtemp, runhog, runjug, makes no difference.

And I don't know what you mean "bnz" here. If someone is making one pass at you and heading for the horizon, then you have ample time to extend in the opposite direction in a cruise climb, forcing them to have a longer chase each time they come back-thus gradually equalizing the E. Or in the big picture, you can be gradually moving the fight under friendlies who may have the E to catch the bandit. See previous response.  Sure, I could do it, but all I end up with afterwards is a runner I can't catch until he dives for and begins circling in his ack. 

Here is the thing you seem to have missed -- for me to get a face shot on him, he has to accept it, being the plane with the alt and speed advantage.  If he pulls off, denying me a shot, goody for him!  But they usually don't -- and they are never guns cold themselves.  Sorry if I don't feel the least bit guilty about returning the favor.   :D
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: BnZs on January 18, 2009, 03:38:42 PM
"Sure, I could do it,"

Could you? You might have to suppress the urge to honk back on the stick and HO for longer than 3 minutes.

"If he pulls off, denying me a shot, goody for him!"

If he's that smart, then trying to honk and Ho is likely bad choice, kills your chances of equalizing the E. Unless you do something real "cute" like let the other fighter get you within his guns envelope and *then* decide to use a really tight turning radius to swap ends and go kamikaze.


 "...but all I end up with afterwards is a runner I can't catch until he dives for and begins circling in his ack."

Try a faster plane. Besides, I caught the P-51...

Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: E25280 on January 18, 2009, 04:16:38 PM
"Sure, I could do it,"

Could you? You might have to suppress the urge to honk back on the stick and HO for longer than 3 minutes.
 :rofl You seem to have conveniently forgotten where we started -- could do, can do, still do occasionally, but more often than not, not bothering anymore, due to the aforementioned reasons (plus, I admit, most likely a little bit of burn-out).  Try to keep up.

"If he pulls off, denying me a shot, goody for him!"

If he's that smart, then trying to honk and Ho is likely bad choice, kills your chances of equalizing the E. Unless you do something real "cute" like let the other fighter get you within his guns envelope and *then* decide to use a really tight turning radius to swap ends and go kamikaze.Correct -- if he is smart, and if he is actively fighting me -- but then he wouldn't be a "safety flyer" in that circumstance, would he?  Again, try to keep up.


 "...but all I end up with afterwards is a runner I can't catch until he dives for and begins circling in his ack."

Try a faster plane. Besides, I caught the P-51... If I am out to catch runners, sure, I will fly a faster plane.  But I don't go actively hunting runners -- too boring (as I've stated).  So, how about instead I fly what I want and HO the safety flyers when given the chance.  Sound good to you?   :D Or do you still think that is "griefing?"   :rofl

I'll keep watch on 200 for the whining.   :D
Title: Re: Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game
Post by: E25280 on January 18, 2009, 04:17:59 PM
Ahem -- since we have totally hijacked this thread, let me state for the record -- As far as I am concerned, the system is fine the way it is, no need to change it to the OP's wish.