Modest Plane Perk Enabled By Pilot Time in Game

[WarTooth]

Guys,

Most feel it is a good thing to let new guys fly the uber planes to learn the game (perked and unperked).  There are a few planes where the debate rages over the lack of perking.  The LA7 and Spit16 for example. 

Suggestion
For pilot accounts over 6 months old perk the LA7 and Spit16.

Some common type defensive responses to this type thing are:

• A good pilot can kill anyone flying anything.
• I pay my $18/month and can fly anyway I want.

etc. etc. etc.  All True. 

Staying on point my question is:
Would having this feature be better than not having it?  Would game play be improved (even slightly) with it?

Thanks for considering, 

WT

[LLogann]

Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.



Select a tour to see the planes's statistics.
                   

Late War Tour 107 Statistics for all planes
Plane Name    Kills    Deaths    Kill/Death Ratio

Panzer IV H    64799    82067    0.79
Wirbelwind           50123    30058    1.67
Sherman VC    48433    18890    2.56
P-51D           40771    37627    1.08
Spitfire Mk XVI    31709    29742    1.07
N1K2             20300    17981    1.13
Il-2                   19500    17029    1.15
Typhoon IB    19390    13353    1.45
F4U-1D           15543    20116    0.77
La-7                   15371    14557    1.06
Tiger I           15252    4007            3.81
T-34/85           14630    10496    1.39
SeaFire           13389    16489    0.81
P-38J           11822    6796            1.74
Fw 190D-9           11618    7902            1.47
F6F-5           11420    15202    0.75
Spitfire Mk VIII    10986    11848    0.93
A6M5b            10952    12662    0.86
F4U-1A             9957    6856            1.45
Hurricane Mk IIC    9722            6928            1.40
P-38L             9523    13291    0.72
Bf 110G-2             9401    15383    0.61
Fw 190A-8             9257    8356            1.11
F4U-1C             9093    3655            2.49
Spitfire Mk IX    8630      8142     1.06
Ki-84-Ia             8537    6637     1.29
Bf 109K-4      8031     6380     1.26
B-24J            6938           17786    0.39
Ostwind            6612            6248     1.06
P-47-D40       5919     7172     0.83
Tempest            5489       804       6.83
A-20G            5482            4206      1.30
T-34/76            5217      9644      0.54
Bf 109G-14    5069            4298     1.18
PT Boat            4758     13932    0.34
Yak-9U            4748      5647     0.84
Lancaster III    4540     19236    0.24
M-8              4431     6938     0.64
Mosquito Mk VI    4232            5024     0.84
B-17G            3977     10883    0.37
Fw 190A-5     3890     3716     1.05
F4U-4            3744     1564     2.39
B-25H            3681      7981     0.46
C.205            3593     3461     1.04
P-47N            3552      4901     0.72
FM2               3486     3990     0.87
Me 262            3367     704            4.78
LVTA4            3015     8735     0.35
P-51B            2818      3329     0.85
M-3                    2579     14600    0.18
Bf 109G-6            2572     2957     0.87
B-26B            2530      7699            0.33
Ta 152H           2351            1565           1.50
LVTA2           2263            7881           0.29
Bf 109G-2           2215           2166           1.02
F4U-1           2051          2068           0.99
P-47-D25           1986           1584           1.25
Ki-61           1934           1604           1.21
Yak-9T           1833           2145           0.85
La-5FN           1608           1771           0.91
Spitfire Mk V    1404           2583           0.54
Bf 109F-4           1389           1565           0.89
Fw 190F-8           1325           1999           0.66
Spitfire Mk XIV    1213           1028           1.18
P-40E           1210           1578           0.77
P-47-D11           1207           1105           1.09
P-38G           1157           1098           1.05
M-16           1041           2232           0.47
P-39Q           969           1472           0.66
A6M2           938           2100           0.45
Ju 88           890           7060           0.13
Hurricane Mk IID    750           1659           0.45
TBM-3           611           4146           0.15
F4F-4           503           806           0.62
Hurricane Mk I    463           1179           0.39
Me 163B           437           106           4.12
P-39D           372           773           0.48
C.202           358           644           0.56
Ar 234           332           796           0.42
B-25C           320           2563           0.12
Ju 87D-3           319           1136           0.28
Ki-67           318           1497           0.21
C-47A           309           6520           0.05
Bf 110C-4b    307           658           0.47
Jeep                  271           3290           0.08
P-40B           267           1056           0.25
SBD-5           265           1183           0.22
B5N2                  261           915           0.29
Spitfire Mk I    259           1149           0.23
Boston III           192           1122           0.17
Bf 109E-4           189           547           0.35
D3A1           143           593           0.24
SdKfz 251           109           814           0.13

Totals           650737    695661    0.94

[Lusche]

Staying on point my question is:
Would having this feature be better than not having it?  Would game play be improved (even slightly) with it?

1) No

2) No

Also, how old one player's account is doesn't mean anything. You could still be at "n00b" skill level after 4 years just because you don't have the time to fly more than a few hours per week. Or a "vet" can simply make a new account after 6 months.

[Anaxogoras]

Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.

If you look at a broad cross-section of performance statistics the Spit XVI ranks with or above the F4U-1C.  The La-7, on the other hand, has weaknesses, e.g. low velocity cannon, poor performance at 10k ft.

[LLogann]

Lusche I should have let you put a graph up, mine looks bad.   

[SmokinLoon]

Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.



Select a tour to see the planes's statistics.
                   

Late War Tour 107 Statistics for all planes
Plane Name    Kills    Deaths    Kill/Death Ratio

Panzer IV H    64799    82067    0.79
Wirbelwind           50123    30058    1.67
Sherman VC    48433    18890    2.56
P-51D           40771    37627    1.08
Spitfire Mk XVI    31709    29742    1.07
N1K2             20300    17981    1.13
Il-2                   19500    17029    1.15
Typhoon IB    19390    13353    1.45
F4U-1D           15543    20116    0.77
La-7                   15371    14557    1.06
Tiger I           15252    4007            3.81
T-34/85           14630    10496    1.39
SeaFire           13389    16489    0.81
P-38J           11822    6796            1.74
Fw 190D-9           11618    7902            1.47
F6F-5           11420    15202    0.75
Spitfire Mk VIII    10986    11848    0.93
A6M5b            10952    12662    0.86
F4U-1A             9957    6856            1.45
Hurricane Mk IIC    9722            6928            1.40
P-38L             9523    13291    0.72
Bf 110G-2             9401    15383    0.61
Fw 190A-8             9257    8356            1.11
F4U-1C             9093    3655            2.49
Spitfire Mk IX    8630      8142     1.06
Ki-84-Ia             8537    6637     1.29
Bf 109K-4      8031     6380     1.26
B-24J            6938           17786    0.39
Ostwind            6612            6248     1.06
P-47-D40       5919     7172     0.83
Tempest            5489       804       6.83
A-20G            5482            4206      1.30
T-34/76            5217      9644      0.54
Bf 109G-14    5069            4298     1.18
PT Boat            4758     13932    0.34
Yak-9U            4748      5647     0.84
Lancaster III    4540     19236    0.24
M-8              4431     6938     0.64
Mosquito Mk VI    4232            5024     0.84
B-17G            3977     10883    0.37
Fw 190A-5     3890     3716     1.05
F4U-4            3744     1564     2.39
B-25H            3681      7981     0.46
C.205            3593     3461     1.04
P-47N            3552      4901     0.72
FM2               3486     3990     0.87
Me 262            3367     704            4.78
LVTA4            3015     8735     0.35
P-51B            2818      3329     0.85
M-3                    2579     14600    0.18
Bf 109G-6            2572     2957     0.87
B-26B            2530      7699            0.33
Ta 152H           2351            1565           1.50
LVTA2           2263            7881           0.29
Bf 109G-2           2215           2166           1.02
F4U-1           2051          2068           0.99
P-47-D25           1986           1584           1.25
Ki-61           1934           1604           1.21
Yak-9T           1833           2145           0.85
La-5FN           1608           1771           0.91
Spitfire Mk V    1404           2583           0.54
Bf 109F-4           1389           1565           0.89
Fw 190F-8           1325           1999           0.66
Spitfire Mk XIV    1213           1028           1.18
P-40E           1210           1578           0.77
P-47-D11           1207           1105           1.09
P-38G           1157           1098           1.05
M-16           1041           2232           0.47
P-39Q           969           1472           0.66
A6M2           938           2100           0.45
Ju 88           890           7060           0.13
Hurricane Mk IID    750           1659           0.45
TBM-3           611           4146           0.15
F4F-4           503           806           0.62
Hurricane Mk I    463           1179           0.39
Me 163B           437           106           4.12
P-39D           372           773           0.48
C.202           358           644           0.56
Ar 234           332           796           0.42
B-25C           320           2563           0.12
Ju 87D-3           319           1136           0.28
Ki-67           318           1497           0.21
C-47A           309           6520           0.05
Bf 110C-4b    307           658           0.47
Jeep                  271           3290           0.08
P-40B           267           1056           0.25
SBD-5           265           1183           0.22
B5N2                  261           915           0.29
Spitfire Mk I    259           1149           0.23
Boston III           192           1122           0.17
Bf 109E-4           189           547           0.35
D3A1           143           593           0.24
SdKfz 251           109           814           0.13

Totals           650737    695661    0.94

A K/D ratio is not a good judge as to whether or not a plane needs perking, imo.  The actual attributes of the aircraft are.  Even then... the "uber-few" still are where on the list???

[BnZs]

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

The idea that there is "nothing special" about the La7/Spit16 is one of the second type and whoever said it ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Okay, here is some of the 3rd type:

Late War Tour 108 Statistics for BnZs
     Kills    Deaths
   Kills In    Kills Of  KilledBy Died In
A-20G    0    1    0    0
A6M5b    0    5    0    0
B-24J    0    5    1    0
B-26B    0    1    1    0
B5N2    0    1    0    0
Bf 109F-4    0    2    0    0
Bf 109G-14    0    1    2    0
Bf 109G-2    0    1    0    0
Bf 110G-2    0    1    0    0
C-47A    0    1    0    0
C.205    0    1    0    0
F4U-1A    0    1    1    0
F4U-1D    0    2    0    0
F6F-5    0    1    0    0
Fw 190A-5    9    2    0    6
Fw 190A-8    0    4    1    0
Fw 190D-9    4    1    4    1
Hurricane Mk IIC    0    2    2    1
Il-2    0    1    0    0
Ki-61    0    1    0    0
Ki-84-Ia    0    2    0    0
La-5FN    0    1    0    0
La-7          20    3    2    3
Lancaster III    0    1    0    0
Mosquito Mk VI    0    1    0    0
N1K2    0    3    3    0
P-38G    0    1    0    0
P-38J    0    1    0    0
P-38L    0    2    0    0
P-39D    0    0    1    0
P-47-D11    0    1    0    0
P-47-D40    0    3    0    0
P-47N    12    1    0    3
P-51D    4    8    4    0
SeaFire    12    1    1    10
Sherman VC    2    1    2    2
Ship Gunner    3    0    1    0
Spitfire Mk I    0    1    0    0
Spitfire Mk V    0    1    0    0
Spitfire Mk VIII    0    2    0    0
Spitfire Mk XVI    11    11    0    2
T-34/76    0    1    0    0
T-34/85    0    1    0    0
Ta 152H    2    0    0    0
Tempest    3    0    1    1
Typhoon IB    0    1    2    0
Wirbelwind    4    1    2    2
Yak-9U    0    2    0    0
     86 Kills    31 Deaths

....Now I am not a trained statistician, but there are a couple of k/d ratios that stick out right there for me, especially when you consider I have used the SpitXVI and La7 exclusively for desperate base defense while pissed off and flying like a lunatic, instead of in a cool and predatory manner. Gentleman, I am not that good. The plane does make a difference. I'm not 100% saying they must be perked, I am saying there is some reason to the idea of perking them.

As to OPs idea though...all I can say is damn yer eyes if you think I ought to have to pay more perk points to fly X because I've been paying to play this fine game for awhile. I'd cancel my account if they slapped me in the face with something like that.

[Lusche]

Late War Tour 108 Statistics for BnZs
 

Using personal statistics to judge a plane's capability, or even the impact of a certain plane in a certain arena have only anecdotal value. Nothing more. It all depends on thing like  how used a player is to a certain plane, in what situation does he fly it, what's his preferred fighting style. And most of all, it simply lacks sufficient data...with  a handfull kills & deaths only, luck plays a very prominent role.

Snailmans overall K/D (all tours with this handle)
P-51B 16.73
190A-5 14.7
La-7 9
F4U-4 8.83
Spit XVI 5.72

Whoa, P-51B and the A-5 must be much better planes than LA, Spit 16 or F4U-4... 

[BnZs]

Yeah, but I know specifically what situations I have used these planes in 100% of the time this tour. Situations where with most planes, a k/d of 1:1 would be doing well.

[indy007]

Neither of those planes are special and neither have a high enough K/D to justify perking them.

Perk those damn 262s, Tempys, F4U4, C-Hogs, 163s, and Tiger Is! 

oh wait...

[Karnak]

If you look at a broad cross-section of performance statistics the Spit XVI ranks with or above the F4U-1C.  The La-7, on the other hand, has weaknesses, e.g. low velocity cannon, poor performance at 10k ft.

I don't care what your numbers say, their impact on the arena is not excessive.  The P-51D has more kills and deaths and is showing increased use over the other "big 4" with only the Spitfire Mk XVI holding even.  Perk the La-7, N1K2 and Spitfire Mk XVI as many demand and all you'll do is reduce the variety in the MA as the P-51D gains even more.

[Anaxogoras]

I don't care what your numbers say, their impact on the arena is not excessive.  The P-51D has more kills and deaths and is showing increased use over the other "big 4" with only the Spitfire Mk XVI holding even.  Perk the La-7, N1K2 and Spitfire Mk XVI as many demand and all you'll do is reduce the variety in the MA as the P-51D gains even more.

Karnak, the only reason the XVI doesn't excessively impact the arena is because a lot of the more experienced pilots refuse to fly them because of the stigma.   If you took all those P-38J pilots (best K/D for non-perked fighter) and forced them to fly XVIs instead, its K/D ratio would far surpass any other non-perked ride, despite all the newbs who fly it (my guess is it would be more than 2:1).  Keep in mind that the XVI is also the ride of choice for base defense, which is another factor that keeps its K/D low.

What's more, if we emphasize turn-rate and other furballing criteria, the XVI is even better than the XIV.

The 51D's usage is high because a lot of Americans are intoxicated with it.  I'm sure the 190 or 109's usage would be a lot higher if most players were German.  In terms of performance the 51 is far behind its total use; a lot of the time it's used as a high-speed ords porker.

The N1K is the most over-rated 5 ENY aircraft in the game.  It's slow.  It rolls poorly.  Its success is only due to idiotic flying by the opposition, which amplifies its cannons and turn-rate.

Again, a lot of people have a hard time aiming the cannons on the La-7, and if you're not flying it 5k ft and below you're outside of its best performance.

[Lusche]

Karnak, the only reason the XVI doesn't excessively impact the arena is because a lot of the more experienced pilots refuse to fly them because of the stigma.   If you took all those P-38J pilots (best K/D for non-perked fighter) and forced them to fly XVIs instead, its K/D ratio would far surpass any other non-perked ride, despite all the newbs who fly it (my guess is it would be more than 2:1).  Keep in mind that the XVI is also the ride of choice for base defense, which is another factor that keeps its K/D low.

And therefore, no unbalancing effect on gameplay -> no need to perk it

[Anaxogoras]

And therefore, no unbalancing effect on gameplay -> no need to perk it

Invalid deduction.  By that logic, the XIV should be unperked simply because it isn't used effectively.

[Lusche]

Invalid deduction.  By that logic, the XIV should be unperked simply because it isn't used effectively.

No way invalid at all.
Fact is the XVI is not, and has never been unbalancing the arena in any way. Just perking because it could when it actually never did is invalid logic.
Actually your "If all those top notch P-38j would only fly the 16" logic can be applied to almost every plane in the planeset

And yes, by that logic the XIV really should be unperked.