Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SEraider on January 18, 2009, 10:50:20 PM
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I think this planse saw action towards the end of the war.
This plane was 20% lighter, carry the same loadout as the F6F and had cannon. Perfect little perk plane IMO.
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The first production aircraft was delivered in February 1945 and the first squadron was operational by 21 May, but World War II was over before the aircraft saw combat service.
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...but World War II was over before the aircraft saw combat service.
...and the F7F is in a similar boat.
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I've always thought that stipulation was kind of bogus. Axis get a big advantage
fighting over their own territory, not having to ship the aircraft/vehicles thousands of
miles to the warzone.
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Only a few Axis aircraft fall into that category though. The Ta152, He162 and perhaps the Me163. All other Axis aircraft in AH saw significant combat. The Do335 fails the criteria even though it was test flown in skies full of Allied aircraft. Conversely only a few Allied aircraft fail to get in due to it, the F7F, F8F, Spitfire F.21 and perhaps the Meteor Mk III.
There is a thread created recently asking for the only semi-decent Japanese tank, but it fails for the same reason the F8F does, they held it back and it didn't see combat before the war ended. If the nukes had not been used both that Japanese tank and the F7F and F8F would have seen combat in the invasion of Japan. Thankfully that didn't happen.
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I've always thought that stipulation was kind of bogus. Axis get a big advantage
fighting over their own territory, not having to ship the aircraft/vehicles thousands of
miles to the warzone.
:rofl
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.
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I've always thought that stipulation was kind of bogus. Axis get a big advantage
fighting over their own territory, not having to ship the aircraft/vehicles thousands of
miles to the warzone.
Maybe a quick refresher on war is in order...you don't WANT to fight the war over your own territory. This is what we in the military referred to as "bad".
I think what you meant to say is the Axis plane set in AH is a little more entertaining because the five examples of a particularly hot ride that escaped the factory before it was reduced to a smoking ruin with all hands were able to take off and immediatly "see action", which is a nice way of saying "die". Don't envy the axis.
We don't need the F7F or the F8F; it's all just incremental increase in capability.
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In fairness, Puck, I don't know of any Axis rides in AH that meet that description, let alone five. Even the Ta152 was delivered to squadrons.
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In fairness, Puck, I don't know of any Axis rides in AH that meet that description, let alone five. Even the Ta152 was delivered to squadrons.
He was speaking hyperbole to illustrate the point. ;)
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Only a few Axis aircraft fall into that category though. The Ta152, He162 and perhaps the Me163. All other Axis aircraft in AH saw significant combat. The Do335 fails the criteria even though it was test flown in skies full of Allied aircraft. Conversely only a few Allied aircraft fail to get in due to it, the F7F, F8F, Spitfire F.21 and perhaps the Meteor Mk III.
There is a thread created recently asking for the only semi-decent Japanese tank, but it fails for the same reason the F8F does, they held it back and it didn't see combat before the war ended. If the nukes had not been used both that Japanese tank and the F7F and F8F would have seen combat in the invasion of Japan. Thankfully that didn't happen.
i thought it was the spit 19 that nearly saw combat now that would have definately been perked
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Spitfire F.21s sank a midget sub.
I am not familiar with the use of the Spitfire Mk XIX.
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F8F would have air superiority from the ground!
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Maybe a quick refresher on war is in order...you don't WANT to fight the war over your own territory. This is what we in the military referred to as "bad".
I think what you meant to say is the Axis plane set in AH is a little more entertaining because the five examples of a particularly hot ride that escaped the factory before it was reduced to a smoking ruin with all hands were able to take off and immediatly "see action", which is a nice way of saying "die". Don't envy the axis.
We don't need the F7F or the F8F; it's all just incremental increase in capability.
Um, duh...and you aren't the only one that was in the service Einstein. I was refering to the game
"requirements" for adding aircraft to AH. I do wonder who appointed you the final arbiter of what "we"
need. It seems like any wish for new aircraft these days has to run the gauntlet of opinionated experts
as to why it should not be included. Any aircraft added is a good thing.
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In the time it takes a P51 to take off climb to 1500 ft do the traffic pattern and do a full stop landing the Bearcat can takeoff make 6 straffing passes on the Mustang climb to FL100 and then return to land. It would be the ultimate easy mode plane except for torque and ground handling.
I believe this plane is not in the running to be added though.
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The F8F was a sexy little fighter. It really does float my boat in terms of looks, if only it saw service in WW2! :cry
General characteristics
* Crew: 1 pilot
* Length: 28 ft 3 in (8.61 m)
* Wingspan: 35 ft 10 in (10.92 m)
* Height: 13 ft 10 in (4.21 m)
* Wing area: ft² (m²)
* Empty weight: 7,070 lb (3,207 kg)
* Loaded weight: 9,600 lb (4,354 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 12,947 lb (5,873 kg)
* Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney R-2800-34W "Double Wasp" two-row radial engine, 2,100 hp (1,567 kW)
Performance
* Maximum speed: 421 mph (366 knots, 678 km/h)
* Range: 1,105 mi (1,778 km)
* Service ceiling 38,700 ft (11,796 m)
* Rate of climb: 4,570 ft/min (23.2 m/s)
* Power/mass: 0.22 hp/lb (360 W/kg)
Armament
* Guns: 4× 0.50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns
* Rockets: 4× 5 in (12.7 mm) unguided rockets
* Bombs: 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs
(http://www.bluejacket.com/usn/images/ac/f/f8f_grumman_bearcat_e.jpg)
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4x50 cal only ?
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She's basically what the Wildcat would have been like if Grumman crammed an R-2800 in there.
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4x50 cal only ?
4 M3's in the -1
but heres the trick, they have a higher rate of fire than the M2, so it has the same weight of fire as a Hellcat with 6 M2 .50 cals
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...and the F7F is in a similar boat.
There should be an arena that's called 1946. There you could fly the entire plane set incliding all the planes that didn't quite make it into service. years agao I use to play the computer sim, called "Aces Over europe" . The " Aces Over The Pacific" included this 1946 senaro and it was very cool. It had F7's and F8's a couple of japanese planes as well and even a P-80.
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NOW THAT........ Is an interesting idea. And perhaps one day may come to fruition. :salute
There should be an arena that's called 1946. There you could fly the entire plane set incliding all the planes that didn't quite make it into service. years agao I use to play the computer sim, called "Aces Over europe" . The " Aces Over The Pacific" included this 1946 senaro and it was very cool. It had F7's and F8's a couple of japanese planes as well and even a P-80.
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I think that would be cool
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I think this planse saw action towards the end of the war.
This plane was 20% lighter, carry the same loadout as the F6F and had cannon. Perfect little perk plane IMO.
The 1B had the cannon there were 100 1Bs built. Even if we did get a break and get the F8F it would probably be the F8F-1 with the 4X 50 cals.
If you want cannons in an American bird you have to go P-38 or P-39...
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There should be an arena that's called 1946. There you could fly the entire plane set incliding all the planes that didn't quite make it into service. years agao I use to play the computer sim, called "Aces Over europe" . The " Aces Over The Pacific" included this 1946 senaro and it was very cool. It had F7's and F8's a couple of japanese planes as well and even a P-80.
Aces of the Pacific: WWII 1946 ROCKED.
Can I have an F2G? :D
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...and the F7F is in a similar boat.
I've always questioned this specific to the F7F. It deployed operationally in May of 1944 but never did see combat. Aces High is a simulation of WW2 era aircraft...not WW2 itself. Almost every plane we talk about in this type of thread didn't enter operational deployment at the squadron level they, were prototype or preproduction models. The F7F is the one plane that was available but withheld for purely political reasons. It is in fact the best prop fighter ever produced by any nation and its sad not to have it available IMO (It obviously would need to be heavily perked if it did show up).
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Aces High is a simulation of WW2 era aircraft...not WW2 itself.
Good point.
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Then I wonder why they wont let 1938 or 1946 skins on planes.
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Nah I don't think it should be added. Many many more planes need to be introduced before we get any more uber rides.
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Then I wonder why they wont let 1938 or 1946 skins on planes.
It does make you wonder, other than the aircraft the game itself has little to do with WWII in the Main arenas.
Granted FSOs Scenarios and AVA do tend to bring into account the actual war. For the three chesspiece war of the Main Arenas
the strict guidelines don't make much sense. Then again I'm not the owner.
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I think its worth adressing/dreaming about. I agree that there are a lot of hole in the planeset especially in early and midwar but think of the possibilities in 'what if' scenarios.
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Nah I don't think it should be added. Many many more planes need to be introduced before we get any more uber rides.
Of course, why add planes people will actually use? :aok
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Combat service or not I would love to have the Bearcat.
Might even make me ditch 109's.
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Of course, why add planes people will actually use? :aok
My post was only a few sentences long but yet you don't want to read the whole thing? come on now..don't be lazy :aok
I said more planes need to be added first (mainly EW planes to help fill in gaps for Scenarions FSOs, etc) before we get any more super LW planes. Please read/comprehend my whole post next time :lol
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This is the problem with adding almost all the American aircraft already. The players who want only American aircraft added will just be focusing on aircraft that didn't quite make it and asking for those.
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Only a few Axis aircraft fall into that category though. The Ta152, He162 and perhaps the Me163. All other Axis aircraft in AH saw significant combat. The Do335 fails the criteria even though it was test flown in skies full of Allied aircraft. Conversely only a few Allied aircraft fail to get in due to it, the F7F, F8F, Spitfire F.21 and perhaps the Meteor Mk III.
There is a thread created recently asking for the only semi-decent Japanese tank, but it fails for the same reason the F8F does, they held it back and it didn't see combat before the war ended. If the nukes had not been used both that Japanese tank and the F7F and F8F would have seen combat in the invasion of Japan. Thankfully that didn't happen.
U.S first jet plane was ready to go on it first sorite but miss it hours after Germany quit.
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U.S first jet plane was ready to go on it first sorite but miss it hours after Germany quit.
Hijack
Lookie here. a jet (http://www.1stfightergroup.org/Photos/P80inItaly.html)
wrongway
wrongway
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It seems like any wish for new aircraft these days has to run the gauntlet of opinionated experts
as to why it should not be included.
The criteria was always there. Who are you to question it?
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U.S first jet plane was ready to go on it first sorite but miss it hours after Germany quit.
I'd need to see documentation of that. To the best of my knowledge the only US jets during WWII were the abysmal YP-59 Airacomet and the YP-80 Shooting Star. Four YP-80s were sent to Europe, two to the UK and two to the Mediterranean for our pilots to give feedback on. None were sent into combat nor was there any intention of sending any into combat.
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F8F-1B and the F8F-2 had 4x20mm cannon. around 3000 were built..a few saw action with the French in Indochina...as far as the F7F goes..it was designed to be used on the Midway-class carriers because the Essex -class and other carriers had to small of decks for operation...and only 394 were built...and as a added bonus....of the 12 Tigercats still in existance, 3 are still flying... :salute
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Nah I don't think it should be added. Many many more planes need to be introduced before we get any more uber rides.
Add planes people wanna fly i would say. Look at the P-39 for a lesson learned.
Except B29 of course........ :O
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:aok
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F8F-1B and the F8F-2 had 4x20mm cannon. around 3000 were built..a few saw action with the French in Indochina...as far as the F7F goes..it was designed to be used on the Midway-class carriers because the Essex -class and other carriers had to small of decks for operation...and only 394 were built...and as a added bonus....of the 12 Tigercats still in existance, 3 are still flying... :salute
There may be 4 flying, not quite sure but 1 , the best one outta the bunch races at the Reno Air races. I saw 3 all flying one year at the Chino air show but heard the announcer say not all flying examples were here. Now there may have been one that restoration was completed on.
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There may be 4 flying, not quite sure but 1 , the best one outta the bunch races at the Reno Air races. I saw 3 all flying one year at the Chino air show but heard the announcer say not all flying examples were here. Now there may have been one that restoration was completed on.
I was told 7 were flyable/flying. 3 were at Reno this year--2 on static display and of course, Big Bossman. Shame no Japanese aircraft ever presented itself since they were deployed and flying combat missions--just not seeing any "combat". F8F doesn't get there because it wasn't in theater, not counting Hawaii and in transit. Personally, I think the Meteor III and F7F deserve serious consideration, but we need some other notables first.
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I was told 7 were flyable/flying. 3 were at Reno this year--2 on static display and of course, Big Bossman. Shame no Japanese aircraft ever presented itself since they were deployed and flying combat missions--just not seeing any "combat". F8F doesn't get there because it wasn't in theater, not counting Hawaii and in transit. Personally, I think the Meteor III and F7F deserve serious consideration, but we need some other notables first.
There may be by now a lot of new additions have been added to the flying WW2 community in the last few years. I'm still waiting to see any of the Me 262's that were suppose to have been in the air years ago. I also heard that they were building around 5 Ki-43's from the ground up. I have not seen any sign of them either.
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F8F doesn't get there because it wasn't in theater, not counting Hawaii and in transit. Personally, I think the Meteor III and F7F deserve serious consideration, but we need some other notables first.
F8F should be here just as much as Ta152 should be. F8F was in service @ squad level, and a WW2 production plane.
Ta saw combat cause we flew over their fields, F8F had to travel 4k miles to the front. Perk it 50 to 100 points, it should
be in AH eventually.
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HTC's criteria are pretty cut and dried: deployed in squadron size and had to have seen combat. F8F doesn't meet that for better or worse. Of course, HTC makes the rules and can do whatever they want in the future.
Regardless, there are many more needed aircraft that take priority first.
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I agree with Humble.
This game is about the era, not the specifics of the war. Bring the F7F to AH2. It is definitely worth having.
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And how much would it cost? At least as much as a 262..
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I'm not sure that it would be quite that dominant. Perhaps Tempest price or so. It wasn't a miracle plane, just technology at the crest of piston-powered fighter development.
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You think it'd be only slightly better than a tempest? By better I mean in terms of MA lethality/survivability.
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Well, armament is better, but only because of the extra caliber .50. Top speed at altitude--obviously faster. At typical MA altitudes? Will not turn or maneuver as well, will have comparable/slightly better rates of climb and comparable top speeds. Like I said, more-or-less the same perk price as a Tempest--my opinion anyway.
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It does have 4x 50 and 4x 20mm, right? Do you know how much ammo it carried? I'm surprised it definitely doesn't turn or maneuver as well as something as mediocre (kind of a strong word for it) as a tempest and only be slightly better in climbs. Thanks.
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Well, armament is better, but only because of the extra caliber .50. Top speed at altitude--obviously faster. At typical MA altitudes? Will not turn or maneuver as well, will have comparable/slightly better rates of climb and comparable top speeds. Like I said, more-or-less the same perk price as a Tempest--my opinion anyway.
The F7F would run rings around the tempest. This is a plane that is double superior to the F6F and has the best sight lines ever on a prop. View over the nose is exceptional and with 4x20mm and 4 x .50 cal all center mounted its got exceptional lethality. I'd guess it would be about a 100 perk ride.
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It's the US equivelant of Luft '46.
Screw that. Let Ubicrap (I mean UbiSoft) corner that market all they want.
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The market on WWII era warbirds?
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It's the US equivelant of Luft '46.
Screw that. Let Ubicrap (I mean UbiSoft) corner that market all they want.
Actually its USAAF 44. The plane was operating operationally on the squadron level in 1944. Thats the entire problem with this. Grumman had both the F6F and the F8F as well as the upcoming F9F and had absolutely no interest in pushing the F7F, especially since Corky Meyer was slotted to be chief test pilot for the Panther. This is an exceptional plane that became politically expendable, it is the exception to the rule IMO and exactly the type of scenario a sim like this can explore...
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And it's nothing like the oddball Luftwonder 46 designs.
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Compared to the F-6F, the F8F :was 20 % lighter, 30% better rate of climb and faster by as much as 50mph..visibility was almost 360 because of its canopy...in 1946 an unmodified f-8f-1 the time to record of attaining 10000 feet in 94 which stood for 10 years(broken by a jet fighter)...As for the F7F..it carried around 200/250 rds per gun...the cannon were mounted in the wingroots....
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And it's nothing like the oddball Luftwonder 46 designs.
I disagree.
It's exactly like them. Outrageous performance claims, no combat to prove them, and if the war had raged on for another full year (hence the '46) they would have had an impact. Instead the war ended and these planes planed NO part in that end result. The war was won with Hellcats and Corsairs. THAT "fits" the era of WW2. The F7F and F8F fit the post-war ("korea", I would say) era.
The F7F is no more relevant to WW2's "feel" or "era" than the Do355 Pfeil, the Horten flying wing, the cross-continental Nazi jet bomber, and many other Luft '46 ideas. None had any impact on the war, and none saw any legit action during the war (not counting LW prototypes).
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The F7F, F8F, Horten IX, Pfeil, Tempest, P80, Ta152 and 190D11+, P51H, F4U4, La9, Sea Fury, etc, are the pinnacle of WWII warbird design. Performance claims were outrageous for the F7F? Is that surprising? Didn't Widewing correct you on that, last time around? Why isn't the F8F surprising; or do you deny its performance too, just because it was late to action by a couple of days ?
The Ta152 is a late war design, tho unfinished.. Is that one dismissable too? There's a difference between off the wall VTOL UFOs with guided missiles and the F7F.
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The F7F and F8F fit the post-war ("korea", I would say) era.
The F7F is no more relevant to WW2's "feel" or "era" than the Do355 Pfeil, the Horten flying wing, the cross-continental Nazi jet bomber, and many other Luft '46 ideas. None had any impact on the war, and none saw any legit action during the war (not counting LW prototypes).
The F7F is much different than the gadget planes of the Luft '46 group. Whether or not it has a place in Aces High is a different discussion.
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While I think there are many aircraft that are more urgently needed.
I think there is a case for the F7F and F8F to be included. Looking at the USN historical site specifically the USN aircraft location report for 4 August, 1945 http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww-ii/loc-ac/1945/aug1945/4-8-45.pdf (http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww-ii/loc-ac/1945/aug1945/4-8-45.pdf)
I was able to find the following;
F8F's
48 F8F-1's with VF-19 at Santa Rosa ready for deployment with the CVG 19 Air Group USS Hornet
1 F8F-1 with CASU5 in San Diego
1 F8F-1 with Flag ComAirPac
for a total of 50 aircraft
F7F's
1 F7F-2P's with VMD-254
6 F7F-3P's with VMD-254
2 F7F-1's with VMFN-531
2 F7F-3's with VMFN-531
11 F7F-2N's with VMFN-531
1 F7F-1 with VMFN-532
3 F7F-3's with VMFN-532
6 F7F-2N's with VMFN-532
1 F7F-1 with VMF-911
1 F7F-1 with VMF-912
5 F7F-3's with VMF-912
for a total of 39 aircraft
While I completely agree that neither saw any combat, they were deployed in squadron strength, and ready for combat before the end of World War II.
Just one other point about the F7F, the 4 20mm cannon's are in the wing root's, only the 4 50cal machine gun's were in the nose.
:salute Baumer
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While I think there are many aircraft that are more urgently needed.
I think there is a case for the F7F and F8F to be included.
(numbers removed)
Aside from not meeting the criteria for inclusion mandated by the game designer and administrator.....
wrongway
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Did the P51H see combat? Because it was in one of the old polls for next AC to add, along with the P47N/M and Ta152.
It's still their game. They can change the rules and inclusion criteria whenever they want. I personaly wouldn't ever fly the yaba-daba-dooo contraptions like the Dewotine and spanish civil war biplanes (or whatever; tho I did say the same for the 25H and now it's one of my top 3 favs) but those tickle some people's fun the same way tearing around in late war monsters does it for others. Adding a couple of each from these extremes along with a majority of more historicaly relevant models isn't going to kill AH, on the contrary. It would enrich the context.
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he doesn't want a dewoitine !!! KILL HIMMMM :t
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AWwrgwy thank you for only quoting part of what I said, and not including the rest of the context. I believe that these two aircraft meet 2 of the 3 criteria that HTC has established for inclusion in the game. I also said they failed to meet the third.
While I completely agree that neither saw any combat, they were deployed in squadron strength, and ready for combat before the end of World War II.
Speaking with, and listening to HiTech and Pyro at the con, there were several discussions about expanding the plane set. Both towards WWI and Korea, so while they have clear guidelines for what aircraft have been including in the game. It appeared that, maybe, they were considering expanding their scope, and possibly be willing to consider aircraft that they wouldn't have in the past.
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Woops.
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AWwrgwy thank you for only quoting part of what I said, and not including the rest of the context. I believe that these two aircraft meet 2 of the 3 criteria that HTC has established for inclusion in the game. I also said they failed to meet the third.
Speaking with, and listening to HiTech and Pyro at the con, there were several discussions about expanding the plane set. Both towards WWI and Korea, so while they have clear guidelines for what aircraft have been including in the game. It appeared that, maybe, they were considering expanding their scope, and possibly be willing to consider aircraft that they wouldn't have in the past.
I imagine Combat is kind of an important criteria for a Combat Sim. Did the F8F even see combat in Korea? As I understand it the remaining active F8F squadrons at the time were based in the Atlantic and did not.
wrongway
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I believe the only combat the F8F was with French Air Force in IndoChina and I know the Thai Air Force had them...and I think we gave some to the Vietnamese air foce too.