This topic I know has been talked about many times before in various threads, but I've never seen one specifically about it. I've heard arguments to both sides, and I'm creating this to curb my curiosity more than anything.
So, the question is: Are the P-51's flap performance in-game true to life?
I have no argument either way, and honestly I don't care much if the plane gets changed in-game. I think it's a challenging and fun aircraft the way it is now. However what I will say is that I notice that the last 2 or so notches of flaps don't seem to help the turn radius all that much compared to the other flap settings. From what I've heard and read makes me believe that perhaps there is an error in the 51's flight model in-game, but not being an expert, I cannot be certain.
Let the debate begin! I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about it.
I can't say what how it performs to the real life counterpart but you gain little turn radius improvement after two notches of flaps, relative to turn RATE performance and drag penalty. JUst my opinion, I fly the pony a bit.I agree, the last 3 or so notches on the Pony seem to be trival.
SectorNine50, you should say what you've read that makes you believe that there could be something wrong with the 51.What I've read makes me believe that there could be something wrong with the modeling on the P-51. :aok
So you have no references?Ohhh! That's what your asking for, that makes much more sense. 1 AM here, excuse the lapse in intelligence.
What has bugged me is how (what seems to be) every other aircraft's flaps seem to make a large difference in lift every notch.
i think that most any aircraft, be it military, commercial, or civilian, you'll find that once you go past 20 degrees of flaps, you're only increasing drag.
one of our cfi's should chime in shortly though.....
Lift continues to increase, but yes, the lift to drag ratio gets much worseCL increases, but Lift may or may not.
CL increases, but Lift may or may not.
Also consider that to overcome the nose-down pitching moment generated by large flap deflections,
I'm glad you brought that up...I'd give my eye teeth for large flap deflections in AHII to cause nose-down pitching, instead of having to reach over the keyboard and input full nose-down trim once I get into a slow fight w/flaps.... :devilI think you've already got him wrapped up there Chief. Ease off the stick a bit and the "Red" guy should magically appear. Unless of course you're using full down-elevator to keep that 6g turn from becoming a 9g turn. If so, then the rest of us are doomed. :D
I think you've already got him wrapped up there Chief. Ease off the stick a bit and the "Red" guy should magically appear. Unless of course you're using full down-elevator to keep that 6g turn from becoming a 9g turn. If so, then the rest of us are doomed. :D
The nose up thing is kind of annoying if you are constantly dropping and dumping several notches of flaps...I dunno about you, but having to apply back-pressure on the stick is fairly natural, if I have to push forward on the stick to keep the nose from rising, all sorts of bounce and the gunnery goes to hell. Trim input takes time and finding the right key. I need more buttons so I can map one to trim I suppose.Hey, I fly a Dora. The only time I drop flaps is to hopefully slow down below 200 before belly-flopping dead stick on to the runway.
Hey, I fly a Dora. The only time I drop flaps is to hopefully slow down below 200 before belly-flopping dead stick on to the runway.
But I know what you're talking about. You have scaled your stick to minimize nose bounce haven't you?
arent only the first notch or 2 supposed to be for manouvering on US birds and the rest for landing? the max speed you can deploy them should give an indication of what theyre for, any more than 2 in a jug or corsair feels more like an airbrake to me.You know, that's probably a good rule of thumb for all aircraft.
arent only the first notch or 2 supposed to be for manouvering on US birds and the rest for landing? the max speed you can deploy them should give an indication of what theyre for, any more than 2 in a jug or corsair feels more like an airbrake to me.
the thing about AHII vs. real life is that we have auto-retracting flaps and never have to worry about jamming/tearing them off at high IAS.Same can be said for the F4U's gear.
| Data says: | Max deployment speed: Limit speed with gear down & locked: | 250 kts 350 kts |
Same can be said for the F4U's gear.That is because the F4U's had a dive brake setting on their landing gear that would only drop the front gear and would keep the tail wheel up. You can drop the front gear at very high speeds but the tail wheel was a little more flimsy. This is just an easy way to execute it in-game.
Data says:
Limit speed with gear down & locked:250 kts
350 kts
But if I understand correctly, the F4U's gear can be deployed in-game at practically any speed. :huh But that's another matter.
That is because the F4U's had a dive brake setting on their landing gear that would only drop the front gear and would keep the tail wheel up. You can drop the front gear at very high speeds but the tail wheel was a little more flimsy. This is just an easy way to execute it in-game.You're correct that the mains only (and not the tail wheel) were lowered as dive brakes. That wasn't my concern. The gear could be lowered at relatively high speeds compared to other aircraft. I'm just wondering if it's not a bit excessive in AHII.
It has nothing to do with E bleed in the Jug.
With full flaps, a P-47D-25 sustains a turning radius over 50 feet smaller than a P-51D with full flaps, as well as a faster rate of turn.
We've tested these individually and head to head. I've said it many times; the drag model update absolutely killed the P-51s and their ability to maneuver at speeds below corner velocity with flaps deployed. Anything more than 3 notches of flaps is virtually worthless. All you do is trade a small decease in radius for a big hit in turn rate.
CL increases, but Lift may or may not.
In other words, CL does increase with increased flaps, but like BnZ said, drag increases disproportionately, so unless you have huge additional power at your disposal
I'd give my eye teeth for large flap deflections in AHII to cause nose-down pitching, instead of having to reach over the keyboard and input full nose-down trim once I get into a slow fight w/flaps.... :devil