Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: shreck on February 17, 2009, 01:02:11 PM
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Get rid of it!
I think this would help sustain a more realistic scoring system!
If you up with ord, you automatically are in bomber mode! NO ord= fighter mode!!
Or you must destroy a ground target for your sortie to be scored as "BOMBER" all other sorties will automaticaly be scored as fighter!! I would think this would make the fighter score a little more realistic and honor those who are quite good "GAMING PILOTS" :rock
As we all know, most folks lurk and hide in the attack category :aok
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Thats like asking for base captures to be removed or maybe you like to be a little safer in GVs? :rofl
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I like the idea of getting rid of attack mode, but if you up a fighter with bombs you're still in fighter mode. :t
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I see now that both of you are more concerned about score then anything else. Carry on.
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So what do you class IL-2/ hurr IID/ B-25-h with no ords gunning gvs? The hurri isn't a bomber.... and the other 2 sure as hell arn't fighters.
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So what do you class IL-2/ hurr IID/ B-25-h with no ords gunning gvs? The hurri isn't a bomber.... and the other 2 sure as hell arn't fighters.
Well I guess if you DON'T destroy some sort of ground target, you'll be scored as fighter! Pretty simple. So don't up those planes without the intention of killing a ground target :aok again---> pretty simple! :D
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Well I guess if you DON'T destroy some sort of ground target, you'll be scored as fighter! Pretty simple. So don't up those planes without the intention of killing a ground target :aok again---> pretty simple! :D
WTF are GVs on? Ohh yea , the ground.
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I see now that both of you are more concerned about score then anything else. Carry on.
I think the point is that IF the score system showed "ACTUALLY" who was best, 99% of the population would be supportive ! IMHO At least that's what I get after reading so much score related posts here on the bbs!!
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WTF are GVs on? Ohh yea , the ground.
W O W ! now your batting a thousand :rolleyes:
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W O W ! now your batting a thousand :rolleyes:
Better than wiffing... like you. :aok
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Keep the attack category for attack planes..
A20, Stuka, Gun nose B25, IL2 etc etc...
Fighters stay in fighter mode..
I think during the war they gave 1/2 kills for
targets on the ground.. Planes or GVs...
RC
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Keep the attack category for attack planes..
A20, Stuka, Gun nose B25, IL2 etc etc...
Fighters stay in fighter mode..
I think during the war they gave 1/2 kills for
targets on the ground.. Planes or GVs...
RC
Kills on the ground only counted in the 8th AF and only until the end of the war, when the credit for ground kills was rescinded. This was for "Ace" status.
Killing a truck, tank, train or boat counted as killing a truck, tank, train, or boat.
wrongway
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W O W ! I'm totally suprised more wouldn't like to see the attack category removed! It has become the category that is used liberally to protect ones fighter score! Hmm I guess there are waaaaaaaaay more peeps shedding and hiding in attack mode than I figured :huh
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Yeah, I was pretty surprised by challenge's troll. Usually it's the defenders of "attack" that are using it to protect a fighter score earned with Tempest's and 262s.
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Another wish for a way to better measure an Internet cartoon pee pee. :rolleyes:
Or at least a way for the wishers to think theirs is bigger. :rolleyes:
No wonder I have so little desire to fly these days.
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Another wish for a way to better measure an Internet cartoon pee pee. :rolleyes:
Or at least a way for the wishers to think theirs is bigger. :rolleyes:
No wonder I have so little desire to fly these days.
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
a common-sense way of thinking, from a wise man.
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Leave the attack mode here just change a few things:
In attack/fighter only if you up with bombs it's automatically an attack sortie and if you up clean wing it's a fighter sortie. Done!
Leave light bombers/attack ac alone.
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Leave the attack mode here just change a few things:
In attack/fighter only if you up with bombs it's automatically an attack sortie and if you up clean wing it's a fighter sortie. Done!
Leave light bombers/attack ac alone.
That is not a bad idea at all. However, I'd say that it might be better if you had to load ordnance of some type before being given the option to select attack scoring. In other words, if you load bombs and/or rockets, you can select attack mode. If you load no ordnance on a fighter, you cannot select attack mode, and are stuck with fighter mode. Further, a pop up window in the tower would tell you IF attack mode is an option and allow you to select before launching.
I really see no need to change scoring. I'd just as soon see it all removed, at least to the point where all you saw was your statistics, and no score was actually published.
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Yeah, I was pretty surprised by challenge's troll. Usually it's the defenders of "attack" that are using it to protect a fighter score earned with Tempest's and 262s.
I dont worry about score if thats what you mean by 'troll.' If you really want to know how score mongers feel about attack ask SHawk or pacerr. I have tried to watch that little 'attack/fighter' button and changing it depending on the mission and my score doesnt change much my k/d stays about the same and I constantly forget when I am rushed to catch up with the squad. When I flew nothing but fighter sorties it ended up being pretty much business as usual so making the change or leaving it wont make any difference to me. I do want to one day see pure attackers in the game (A36 for instance) so yes I am against your idea.
Something like strokers idea is more appropriate.
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Leave the attack mode here just change a few things:
In attack/fighter only if you up with bombs it's automatically an attack sortie and if you up clean wing it's a fighter sortie. Done!
Leave light bombers/attack ac alone.
Hmm, still waaaay to easy to geek the fighter score. Easy enough to up with bombs then jettison them to fight in the furball, protecting your fighter score the same as it is done now!
Why should there be a category where people will fly differently than while in another category?
I think when in attack mode peeps are more aggressive and less concerned with losing than when in fighter mode! Isn't that what most want, a "realistic, unprotected" representation of score ?
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The smart ones are not concerned with score at all.
Removing attack will only succeed in making some people even more timid in order to protect their precious rank, it will not make any of them any less timid. And it will not make the score any more valid.
Being the holder of top score in any category is worth exactly $0. It won't make you rich. It won't make you popular. It won't get you a car, it won't get you a house, it won't even get you a cheap cup of coffee. It won't get you laid, it won't even get you kissed. So why worry? The most it will get you is your name on the front page for a day or two, and who notices, or cares?
The guys I know and see having the most fun do not worry about score. At the most they'll fool around to see how it can be manipulated. And no matter what you do, score can and will be manipulated. As far as what those guys having the most fun for their $15 go, they use their statistics to judge whether or not they are improving with a new idea or technique, and then only if there is not a huge difference.
Changing the score format does nothing other than slightly alter how a few fly to pad their score, and change who the format favors. Again, it would be best for the fights, and the game, if only statistics were available, so that players could determine if they are improving or getting worse, and possibly where they need help. The rest is completely pointless, since holding a high score will get you nothing, regardless of the format it is done under. Score and ranking is probably the worst thing for the game, the fights, and the community.
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For me there should be an attack category.
there should also be attack perks (for buying ordinance) perks earned in attack mode cannot then be used in fighter mode (or elsewhere)
you then have 4 categories
Fighter, Attacker, Bomber, Vehicle.
Each category can win and lose perk points for that category
Now we can use them to solve some age old problems (somewhat)
Fighters do not carry ord. (Load ord and you are forced into attack)
Some aircraft are only enabled as attackers. IL2m3, Ju87, Val?, A20G (basically attack orientated stuff with no bomb aiming sight......)
In attack mode you cannot use either F3 or F6 (No gamey IL2 external view "fighters" bombs can only be released from pilot view)
In attack mode you cannot use formations. (those are for bombers)
Some aircraft can be either attacker or bomber. (Ju88, Boston, B25) in bomber mode they get formations but can only release bombs from F6
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For me there should be an attack category.
there should also be attack perks (for buying ordinance) perks earned in attack mode cannot then be used in fighter mode (or elsewhere)
you then have 4 categories
Fighter, Attacker, Bomber, Vehicle.
Each category can win and lose perk points for that category
Now we can use them to solve some age old problems (somewhat)
Fighters do not carry ord. (Load ord and you are forced into attack)
Some aircraft are only enabled as attackers. IL2m3, Ju87, Val?, A20G (basically attack orientated stuff with no bomb aiming sight......)
In attack mode you cannot use either F3 or F6 (No gamey IL2 external view "fighters" bombs can only be released from pilot view)
In attack mode you cannot use formations. (those are for bombers)
Some aircraft can be either attacker or bomber. (Ju88, Boston, B25) in bomber mode they get formations but can only release bombs from F6
Another well thought out viable alternative.
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I see now that both of you are more concerned about score then anything else. Carry on.
That is the troll.
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Removing attack will only succeed in making some people even more timid in order to protect their precious rank, it will not make any of them any less timid.
Changing the score format does nothing other than slightly alter how a few fly to pad their score, and change who the format favors.
Who are they?
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For me there should be an attack category.
Fighters do not carry ord. (Load ord and you are forced into attack)
The fighter score is the most manipulated category in the game, and arguably the most competative IMO.
Folks in the BKs, Muptwits, 80th and the Few are arguably some of the best sim players in this game, yet they hardly ever rank anywhere, and probably mostly fly in fighter mode. The current score system has made them apathetic to it "viewing it as (completely bogus)" and I agree. But also I would think "if the score system was altered to show actual ability" some how, long time players such as these would thaw to it and just maybe embrace it a bit. One way to alter the gaminess of fighter rank is to make it virtually impossible to protect! With the above suggestion it is still easy to up with ord "so you are in attack mode" then pickle the ord and go furballing with NO risk to your fighter rank, and when you want to geek the fighter score you can still be ultra carefull and protect it, this actuality is what makes the fighter scoring soooooooo ridiculous! With your idea I could still very easily score in the top 10 with little effort :rofl When I'm probably not in the top 50% of gamers in this community! <-- that is just wrong and why so many have become apithetic to score IMHO
Removing the attack category and making it so " when ord is loaded and you are required to kill a ground target to be in bomber mode" would go a long way to showing some actual truth to the fighter rank. Also IF there is NO attack category, then I can see less running and UBER plane vulching goin on, as "if you wanted a good fighter rank" than youd spend soooo much time protecting it, you'd never get much playing in! I believe peeps would tire of this and just GET STUCK IN as the Brits like to say :aok :salute
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Removing the attack category and making it so , when ord is loaded you are in bomber mode ONLY would go a long way to showing some actual truth to the fighter rank.
I don't understand why. What's less gamey about being in "bomber" mode instead of "attack" mode in a fighter?
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Any fix is going to be gamed as well as has been noted, plus I agree with Tilt that there should be an attack mode. However, the reason we don't care is because we know a majority of the people who play for score truly do suck, and because they have to game the system to get any rank at all, we laugh at them and how they did it. If anyone actually good wants to rank, he'll beat out any other the gamers easy because he's just flat out better, and a gamer can only do so much to game his score. It's just boring to play a whole camp that way, and a lot less fun.
This is why I laugh at pacerr and relish any chance to own him (whenever I see him), cause I know it ruins his day... probably his month, lol.
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The fighter score is the most manipulated category in the game, and arguably the most competative IMO.
Folks in the BKs, Muptwits, 80th and the Few are arguably some of the best sim players in this game, yet they hardly ever rank anywhere, and probably mostly fly in fighter mode. The current score system has made them apathetic to it "viewing it as (completely bogus)" and I agree. But also I would think "if the score system was altered to show actual ability" some how, long time players such as these would thaw to it and just maybe embrace it a bit.
Do you actually KNOW any of those people? I know a few of them, some for over a decade. They are so good because for the most part they don't care about score, at all. Exactly what is it that makes you think they'd suddenly embrace "score"? Knowing some of the best people ever to fly flight sims, I can tell you that they will never embrace score, because they love the fight. They have no need for score, because they have no need for artificial affirmation of their skill level.
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Do you actually KNOW any of those people? I know a few of them, some for over a decade. They are so good because for the most part they don't care about score, at all. Exactly what is it that makes you think they'd suddenly embrace "score"? Knowing some of the best people ever to fly flight sims, I can tell you that they will never embrace score, because they love the fight. They have no need for score, because they have no need for artificial affirmation of their skill level.
oops :D Well maybe I think they should be recognised in some measurable way for their ability!
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I don't understand why. What's less gamey about being in "bomber" mode instead of "attack" mode in a fighter?
you're correct I had to change my post!! please re-read <S>
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you're correct I had to change my post!! please re-read <S>
Ok, your edit makes for something workable. But now I see that you have 15 fighter sorties and 125 attack sorties. Do you love ground attack that much? :devil
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I'd like to see certain AC designated as attack only. Hurri D, IL-2 and the B-25H, if the 87G is ever introduced it would fall into this category.
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Ok, your edit makes for something workable. But now I see that you have 15 fighter sorties and 125 attack sorties. Do you love ground attack that much? :devil
See exactly what I'm talkin about!! I stopped goin for score awhile back and just haven't changed modes around and don't really care what mode I'm in these days. Although I would still like to see some realistic scoring system. The system as it is actually made me APITHETIC to scoring!!
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The current score system has made them apathetic to it "viewing it as (completely bogus)" and I agree. But also I would think "if the score system was altered to show actual ability" some how, long time players such as these would thaw to it and just maybe embrace it a bit.
This analogy referencing AH's scoring system comes to mind...
Boy that golf scoring system must be totaly screwed, because the best golfer I know of dosn't care to try for a good score any more, and instead just goes out to see how many hole in ones he can make. But lesser players always get better scores. Man that golf score system sucks. It just dosn't reflect who is the better gollfer.
HiTech
If a sizeable number of players in golf suddenly played only to see how many holes in one they could make while everyone else played for score, then the golf scoring system would not provide an accurate measure of skill. It would rank winners and losers based on existing golf rules, sure, but as a metric for skill it would suffer.
Bull puppy.
The system would still accuratly provide a measure of golf skill. But your players are no longer playing golf they are now playing a different game. And since your players are not interested in their golf score, they wouldn't even keep track.
So are you interested in playing golf, or do you just want to head to the driving range. Both are perfectly acceptible, but don't try tell the golfers they should forget about it and just go to the driving range instead, because in your view distance is the only TRUE method for messuring a golfers talents.
HiTech
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oops :D Well maybe I think they should be recognised in some measurable way for their ability!
Excellence is a reward all its own. See, even without score, you know these guys are good. So, what does score really matter? They and their peers know, and those who seek to know who is good and why know. What else is there that really matters?
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This analogy referencing AH's scoring system comes to mind...
Bull puppy.
The system would still accuratly provide a measure of golf skill. But your players are no longer playing golf they are now playing a different game. And since your players are not interested in their golf score, they wouldn't even keep track.
So are you interested in playing golf, or do you just want to head to the driving range. Both are perfectly acceptible, but don't try tell the golfers they should forget about it and just go to the driving range instead, because in your view distance is the only TRUE method for messuring a golfers talents.
HiTech
...and for those in Rookland....he is saying that system works for those that are playing for score. Makes perfect sense (he actually does that, occassionally :)). The scoring system, like many other things in the game, is simply there. It isn't the fault of the system that some don't "use" it. I use it. When nothing is posted here for me to make fun of....I go look at my score and practice. :D
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Excellence is a reward all its own. See, even without score, you know these guys are good. So, what does score really matter? They and their peers know, and those who seek to know who is good and why know. What else is there that really matters?
This is true enough, although a scoring system of some kind is here to stay IMO, so with that in mind, why not make it practical and accurate as much as possible. With this said, I believe IF the scoring system were to be removed, many many players would leave the game. They enjoy some form of consistent measure of progress! Waiting around for a possible encounter with the old guard just doesn't cut it for todays modern gamers, which incidently is who dominently populates the game now! I guess my main point is, a new era of sim gaming is at hand, might as well try and get some of the gaminess out now if possible. Cause with most things that don't work and are not addressed, they just continue on in there obvious uselessness! Just look at your government! :rofl :rofl :huh
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Hmm, still waaaay to easy to geek the fighter score. Easy enough to up with bombs then jettison them to fight in the furball, protecting your fighter score the same as it is done now!
Why should there be a category where people will fly differently than while in another category?
I think when in attack mode peeps are more aggressive and less concerned with losing than when in fighter mode! Isn't that what most want, a "realistic, unprotected" representation of score ?
This is true but if you just drop your bombs on nothing it will hurt your bombing% and a true score potatoe won't like that either. Not perfect but I do believe the scoring system is fun. Ranked #6 over all but I do try to run fighter/attack sorties in the right section. I don't consider myself a score potatoe (maybe I am) but I try to enjoy all parts of the game. Removing the attack part would be taking away part of the game I enjoy. Rank truely means alittle to me as I work on my k/d, hit% and landing sorties. Those things are important to me and if a better score comes with it so be it. I don't furball, rarely vulch (I know your going to call BS), and don't make a habit of hitting strats.
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There is a world of difference between keeping stats vs rank. Being a bit analytical, I love stats... Rank isn't so exciting. Everyone says it's easy to get a high rank if you do a certain laundry list of chores, and they are right. I tested the theory once and finished #6 over-all, and I'd only call myself an above-average pilot. :lol It's much more fun to just do your own thing and not worry about gv hit %, bomber field captures and other lame categories that reward attacking stationary objects.
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This is true enough, although a scoring system of some kind is here to stay IMO, so with that in mind, why not make it practical and accurate as much as possible. With this said, I believe IF the scoring system were to be removed, many many players would leave the game. They enjoy some form of consistent measure of progress! Waiting around for a possible encounter with the old guard just doesn't cut it for todays modern gamers, which incidently is who dominently populates the game now! I guess my main point is, a new era of sim gaming is at hand, might as well try and get some of the gaminess out now if possible. Cause with most things that don't work and are not addressed, they just continue on in there obvious uselessness! Just look at your government! :rofl :rofl :huh
Statistics provide almost all of the measure of progress or improvement that matters, and the input of your true peers, if you are truly an enthusiast and lover of the game, will provide the rest. Again, score gains you nothing, especially if you are not one of the very few listed for a few days on the front page. And score combined with ranking means little, especially since we know that any scoring system can and will be manipulated, and as such it provides no real honest measure of anything.
I do not believe anyone who really wants to play or fly will leave if they remove score, ranking, and the display of such on the front page.
Further, the practices of the so called "modern gamer" playing for score are diametrically opposed to the very things that serve to promote good fights and game play. It is in fact those very things that should not be encouraged under any circumstances.
You may not believe that or understand it. But here is why. To change the main dynamic of the game to best suit and support newcomers does not build or support a solid player base. It only serves to build a high rate of turn over. In the business world, it is FAR cheaper to keep existing customers than it is to seek and gather new ones. The need for growth does necessitate the seeking of new customers. But not at the expense of current customers. What happens when you seek new customers at the expense of your current customers, especially the long term solid customer base, is that you drive off good solid customers in hopes of gaining new ones. Then you have a high percentage of those new customers only stay for the short term, then leave. By that time, your long time sold customers are gone, most likely never to return, so both a large portion of new customers are gone, AND a large portion of the old solid long time customers are gone as well. It results in a net loss, and recovery from that can be very difficult, if not impossible. Many businesses have failed for just this reason. Many sports have either died off, or fallen by the wayside for just that reason.
How do I know this? I myself own a small business, and have managed others. I also have been part of some of those sports as well. I have seen all of those things first hand, and know exactly how it works.
One other thing. The combat flight sim genre is something different, all its own. It has not ever worked the way other games have, and if it is ever forced to, it is doomed to die off when it is no longer the new "in game" of choice. This thing we call AH II is not a fad, it is not new. To force it to act and work like a new fad would be to destroy it.
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That is the troll.
That is a conclusion evidenced by your desire to remove attack as a score category. :rofl
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That is a conclusion evidenced by your desire to remove attack as a score category. :rofl
You're trolling again.
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No I am accusing you of having an inside agenda ie: to bump your score above people you see as inferior.
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No I am accusing you of having an inside agenda ie: to bump your score above people you see as inferior.
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