Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on February 18, 2009, 10:35:40 PM
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Reading the BBS today something struck me. It seems to me that the only Japanese fighter that is respected here is the Ki-84. Fans of the European theater will often fly it as well. The N1K2-J is savaged as an aircraft for unskilled newbies. The Ki-61 isn't reviled, but gets put into the category of aircraft one uses if they want to show off, the category with things like the C.202 and P-40E. The A6Ms are both dismissed due to their slow speeds and lack of any protection.
But the Ki-84 is actually generally liked. Why is it treated differently?
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It is a good well rounded plane. Don't fly it much but thats how I feel about it when I do.
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It's the best fighter in the Japanese stable, and a good plane all-around. She's a dangerous opponent: Fast, climbs well, fairly rugged, highly maneuverable at low speeds. Her only major flaws are the limited usefulness and general inferiority of her guns, (the 20mm are better than the A6M2's but are no match for the Hispano, and the Japanese 12.7mm are quite poor in comparison to most other guns in its class) and her controls stiffen up REAL easily at speed.
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I'm not sure about why it is respected more than the others.
But if everything I've read about the plane is right, it isn't the plane it should be in this game.
Not sure why, but it seems to shed parts quicker than it should, and is not as fast as it should be.
I've read descriptions of it being as fast as a P-51!!
I've heard that this was the one Japanese plane that was to be avoided like the plague.
I'm sure there are reasons its not living up to the limited articles I have read, but I'm not sure what they are.
Enlighten me please.
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I tend to let KIs be when ever I am flying around.
Most of the time they are piloted well so I do my best not to engage them.
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The Ki84 is a P38 with training wheels.
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Community: "The Ki-61 is a POS." :rock I now just agree.
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The Ki-84 is respected because it's competitive enough with the late war planeset, but it has some nasty traits that require the pilot to pay attention and spend some time learning what the plane can do.
If you pull too much AoA, it will snap roll without much warning (compared to our other aircraft).
If you dive too fast, you will lose parts...quickly. :uhoh
You will sustain more pilot wounds in the Ki-84 than in the N1K or Ki-61.
The elevator becomes ineffective a higher speeds that are still slow enough not to cause structural failure.
That said, if you learn to work around these weaknesses, it is very competitive.
As a fighter, I used to think the Ki-84 was superior to the N1K, but after flying them more I've changed my mind. I believe the N1K is superior because it doesn't have all of the weaknesses listed above. You lose a little bit of speed, but the ability to dive without fear of losing parts is a big plus, and the control surfaces remain effective past 400mph ias. The truckload of 20mm doesn't hurt, either. ;)
The Ki-61 would be my favorite out of the three if it were faster. When I fly the 61 it seems like there's a "shoot me" sign on my back. A lot of people will drop what they're doing to attack it. Despite its superior diving qualities, it frequently happens that after a diving BnZ pass on a bandit I find a Spitfire XVI closing on my 6, someone who has dropped 10k ft of altitude for a shot at a slow target. The last time that happened I sent the XVI to the tower, but was ganged like crazy immediately afterward.
The A6M series is great for low CV battles, but it's not very gratifying to score most of your victories over enemy who only turned to avoid your faster countrymen. In this way it's a lot like the Hurri IIC: too slow to be effective on its own, scavenging on those who are already forced defensive.
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I never had trouble with the control authority of the Ki-84 once I learned that it needed combat trim off. I also found its guns to be just fine, even to the point of getting kills with just the 12.7mm Ho-103s after the 20mm were exhausted.
Anax's first line came closest to what I was saying. It is like the Ki-84 is good enough to be competitive, tough enough not to be a joke and quirky enough to take skill to use to its potential.
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Not sure why, but it seems to shed parts quicker than it should, and is not as fast as it should be.
Actually, the Ki-84 DID have issues losing parts and loss of control authority at high speeds
I've read descriptions of it being as fast as a P-51!!
Only in tests with capture examples using the higher-quality fuel available to the US.
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Saxman,
The only problem I have with it shedding parts is that it wasn't inherent to the design. It was a quality control issue and no other aircraft in the game suffers from quality control issues.
As to the speed, I have read a comment where a P-51 pilot was told there was a contact as x altitude moving y speed and to scramble and go get it. He said something like "Forget it, its a Frank." By that I didn't take it to mean the Ki-84 was faster than the P-51, just that it was enough faster than other Japanese aircraft that the P-51 could not take off, climb to its altitude and chase it down before having to turn back due to low fuel.
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Its really quite simple.
The Zero is as close as any fighter comes to being truly "easy mode" if the opponent chooses to play the Zero's game, and almost helpless to go offensive vs. most if they refuse.
The N1K is sort of the same circumstance, only less extreme. It doesn't help the N1Ks respectability that part of its "game" is typically HOing at every opportunity.
The Ki-84 by comparison is a moderately fast energy fighter. More difficult to get the most out of, yet more able to press the offensive against a wide variety of opposition once it is mastered.
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Saxman,
The only problem I have with it shedding parts is that it wasn't inherent to the design. It was a quality control issue and no other aircraft in the game suffers from quality control issues.
I dunno, the N1K2 had issues with its landing gear collapsing for that same reason and several of my squad experienced this first hand while taxiing in frame one of this month's FSO...
And while the shedding parts may not have been inherent, high-speed control stiffness WAS.
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Heaven help us if we ever get the N1K1-J, and with 1100 made we very well might, as it had telescoping landing gear to make up for the mid-wing design it inherited from the N1K1 floatplane fighter. They were very prone to failure and one of the big improvements on the N1K2-J was going to a low wing with normal landing gear.
The Ki-84 also had issues with landing gear failure due to improperly tempered steel.
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I never had trouble with the control authority of the Ki-84 once I learned that it needed combat trim off.
"i" and "k" are your friends, no doubt, but that doesn't make the Ki-84 elevator feel like a Ki-61's.
It doesn't help the N1Ks respectability that part of its "game" is typically HOing at every opportunity.
Funny, I almost thought you were talking about the typical P-51D. :devil
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Ki-84s make me shudder.
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Since I fly Spits a lot I'd say the Ki-84 is generally pretty easy to beat. It's the Ki-61 I hesitate against.
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As several others have said, it is an all around good plane. It does many things well and couple this with a great climb rate and in the right hands (like all planes in AH) it is a plane to respect.
***disclaimer****results listed below may not be the norm****
I have had lots of luck in the KI. Nearly beat 3 ponies at the same time, fought many 1vs 1's and 2vs1's, fought several many on 1's and most of those were against planes that have different fighting styles (ex 1 plane prone to BnZ and 1 plane prone to TnB which to me is an extremely difficult situation) and managed to get at least one kill most times if not win the engagements. All this with relatively little time in the plane. Now I may be lucky and definitely not good but there are several ways that this plane is forgiving. Either way respect the KI even the 61.
As far as the N1K is concerned, I think many label this as a dweeb plane because of the cannons it carries. All you need is one slapshot with this thing and parts will definitely be falling off your opponent's plane. Not to mention that the ballistics of these guns are up there with some of the higher ranked ones and the rate of fire is nothing to laugh at neither.
Finally the zeeks don't get much attention because of their lack of speed. Hard to really press a fight with these things when your opponent comes in with a ton of alt and is in a plane that handles it well. Not to mention if your in one and you start to lead turn to drain a con's "E" down the next con just comes in and takes advantage of your state and will usually pick you off. I do love flying these though when the furball makes it over my own field. It is amazing how fast you are discounted when others are upping in the more "uber" rides.
Really all of these deserve some respect as far fighting against them. It is so easy to become complacent when you see them that you can easily help that enemy beat you.
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Community: "The Ki-61 is a POS." :rock I now just agree.
I agree!!
:noid
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The Ki84 is a brutal fighter plane,
I've seen Kazaa and wilbuz take on many guys at once and make it look very simple. It has the characteristics of a spit16 and climbs just as well, It is durable if you don't get hit in the tail section but the same can be said for other planes, with the fast firing 20mm the guns are pretty lethal from close range.
drain the wing tanks and she rolls well too.
Most people fear the spitties and lala's, the bnzers go straight for the runstangs and 190's yet this thing is capable of beating them all.
Infact It should be perked :lol
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Reading the BBS today something struck me. It seems to me that the only Japanese fighter that is respected here is the Ki-84. Fans of the European theater will often fly it as well. The N1K2-J is savaged as an aircraft for unskilled newbies. The Ki-61 isn't reviled, but gets put into the category of aircraft one uses if they want to show off, the category with things like the C.202 and P-40E. The A6Ms are both dismissed due to their slow speeds and lack of any protection.
But the Ki-84 is actually generally liked. Why is it treated differently?
I think it's the nature of the Main Arena Karnak. Put any of the Japanese Fighters in a fairly historical setting for that model and they are all to be feared.
In the LWA only the latest and greatest will get any mass respect Just my opinon of course..
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Well it climbs good turns good rolls good and accelerates good. It can keep up with an F4U or the most part. Its just a overall well plane except for the fact if you dive you elevators rip off.
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Next to the 38, this is my favorite ride.. As Del says, it's a P-38 with training wheels.. It's fun to fly, does what ever you want it to do if you know where to keep it speed wise.
It will turn with or better than just about anything in the game.. For me, it feels like training mode sometimes.. I'm more than happy to dive into any situation where I will be
vastly outnumbered. Nothing is more fun than not even looking ahead of you because you're trying to dodge every other bird behind you wanting a piece. Seriously!!
The way this thing roles, turns and climbs: you can get out of almost any situation or put yourself into almost any situation :)
Only thing I still have an issue with is the guns.. I tend to set the convergence to 200 and try not to fire farther out than that. Otherwise, I can't hit anything..
Poorer ballistics probably..
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The A6Ms are both dismissed due to their slow speeds and lack of any protection.
That may be true in the LW arenas, but I fly mainly in the MW arena and both A6Ms, when encountered, are not to be taken lightly in that arena.
Mash ... I don't fly the Ki-61 as much as I did in AH I (it was a real sleeper then), but still love to jump in it every now and then and it's still a "sleeper".
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The Ki84 is a P38 with training wheels.
Knew that was coming LOL
oh and don't tell Karaya this
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But the Ki-84 is actually generally liked. Why is it treated differently?
Because its really the only meatball plane that can compete with late war ETO fighters from a performance perspective.
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I think it has much to do with the kind of players that fly them. It's been my experience that guys in the Ki-84 either know what they are doing, or wish to learn how to do so. It's much like a P-38, Corsair (away from furball lake in the DA) or P-51B in that regard. Generally, when I run into one, I know I'll be up against someone putting in an effort.
This, combined with the fact that a Ki-84 vs. a -1A is one of the best angle-fight matchups in the game, and I'm very happy every time I run into one.
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As a fighter, I used to think the Ki-84 was superior to the N1K, but after flying them more I've changed my mind. I believe the N1K is superior because it doesn't have all of the weaknesses listed above. You lose a little bit of speed, but the ability to dive without fear of losing parts is a big plus, and the control surfaces remain effective past 400mph ias. The truckload of 20mm doesn't hurt, either. ;)
I've never felt very threatened by a Niki in my Ki-84; unless my SA slips and I don't spot them until they are 400 off my 6 and opening up. The Ki-84 is a step above the Niki. Once you've engaged and moved the fight into the verticle the Frank will quickly gain an advantage when your speed hits the magic number to drop flaps.
As far as high speed manuevering goes you need to disable combat trim. Similar to the P38, the Ki84's combat trim will fight you at higher speeds. If your coming around in a low yo yo with some real juice but feel that no matter how hard you pull you aren't getting close to riding the black out you should just try giving it a bit of elevator trim. That will pull you right into your maximum turn.
I haven't lost parts on my Ki84 in a dive for a year at least now. You can certainly dive a bit but if the p51 or hog wants to get away and has some air beneath them you should go ahead and slowly level out. You can follow them a ways and if they decided to come back up to play you've got all the advantages you need.
The way I think about it is the Ki84 is the complete opposite of the P47. In a P47 you want the fight to be constantly going downward, in the Frank you want it to be nose up as much as possible.
As far as the OP goes I tend to think that a lot of the playerbase really has no idea of what a Ki84 is or is capable of. I'll routinely catch all but the fastest of the planeset; the Ki84 has a great top speed on the deck. I'll destroy spixtweenies in the verticle or in a turning match. Often p51's only option is to dive and run and if they don't have enough E stored to get away before I hit critical speeds they are in trouble.
If the Ki84 wasn't modeled with inferiour construction and crappy japanese gasoline it would have to be perked. Especially the 4x20mm version. :drool: mmmmmmmmmm
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Since I fly Spits a lot I'd say the Ki-84 is generally pretty easy to beat. It's the Ki-61 I hesitate against.
DA? :aok
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Funny, I almost thought you were talking about the typical P-51D. :devil
The difference is that that the HOing P-51D will come out on the short end of the stick if I'm in one of my ornery moods.
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I like the ki61 alot, probably 4th favorite fighter in game for me. I just dont seem to fly it much though. The A6m says I cant turn, the Niki says I cant aim. The Ki84 is a great plane though. Good balance I think. The nice thing about the A6ms is if you set it on fire and you ran out of bullets, he will still be there for you to get the kill when you come back from re-arm.
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The KI-84 also has two other advantages that make it a great bird. It accelerates very quickly, and it's wep recharge is unbelievable.
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DA? :aok
It won't matter, his quote echoes my sentiments.
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As far as high speed manuevering goes you need to disable combat trim. Similar to the P38, the Ki84's combat trim will fight you at higher speeds. If your coming around in a low yo yo with some real juice but feel that no matter how hard you pull you aren't getting close to riding the black out you should just try giving it a bit of elevator trim. That will pull you right into your maximum turn.
Don't assume I don't know to disable combat trim in a dive. Even with manual trim, Ki-84 elevator authority is inferior to the Ki-61 and N1K in a high-speed dive. This is especially true if you need to pitch down after you've trimmed for the ability to pitch up, and you're at 400mph+.
As for ballistics...
Ho-105: ~750m/s
HispanoII: ~880m/s
.50Cal Browning: ~887m/s
If you mostly fly Anglo-American aircraft you'll need to adjust for deflection shots.
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The KI-84 also has two other advantages that make it a great bird. It accelerates very quickly, and it's wep recharge is unbelievable.
But WEP only lasts for 90 seconds. So the recharge should better be rapid. ;)
But to add to the topic, the 84 never really showed up on my radar, neither as opponent nor as plane of choice.
I have more respect for the Ki-61 in both regards.
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DA? :aok
Sure. Shout at me if you see me online but I haven't been flying much lately.
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it kinda looks like a stoned turtle.
that might have something to do with it *shrug* :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid
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Bongaroo,
The Japanese built about 500 of the quad 20mm Ki-84s. Hopefully it will show up at some point.
But WEP only lasts for 90 seconds. So the recharge should better be rapid. ;)
Yes, it would be 180 seconds if it followed the standard recharge rate. It is actually 45 seconds though.
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Most of the time they are piloted well so I do my best not to engage them.
that's all the more reason to engage them.
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Co-alt Ki84's scare me ususally, because they climb like rockets, and can turn like it too, when slow that is. A nicely flown 61 with alt also scares me, can turn like an fm2 and the cannons are nice.
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Reading the BBS today something struck me. It seems to me that the only Japanese fighter that is respected here is the Ki-84. Fans of the European theater will often fly it as well. The N1K2-J is savaged as an aircraft for unskilled newbies. The Ki-61 isn't reviled, but gets put into the category of aircraft one uses if they want to show off, the category with things like the C.202 and P-40E. The A6Ms are both dismissed due to their slow speeds and lack of any protection.
But the Ki-84 is actually generally liked. Why is it treated differently?
I'd say the most respected Japanese fighter is the Ki61. Lethal if flown well by the likes of somebody like Kermit. The ki84 is generally liked but I still think it's an Ezmode plane. The only thing it can't do is dive, everything else it does it excels at.
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Since I fly Spits a lot I'd say the Ki-84 is generally pretty easy to beat. It's the Ki-61 I hesitate against.
Funny, as a KI pilot - I usually don't fear Spits. Took a break from them for a bit to try other things for awhile. But as long as they don't try to 3v1 me I feel pretty confident in the 1v1...one wrong move though and I'm done. Cant say that for the spit pilots, their whole defense is to just wiggle a heck load and make bad floating 'tron plane' turns then BAM they are on your six.
Great defense, but definitely incorrectly modeled planes. I won't fly them for this very reason.
I'm an average stick, when I started playing I had 4 kills to every death in spits...nuff said.
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The Ki84 is a brutal fighter plane,
I've seen Kazaa and wilbuz take on many guys at once and make it look very simple. It has the characteristics of a spit16 and climbs just as well, It is durable if you don't get hit in the tail section but the same can be said for other planes, with the fast firing 20mm the guns are pretty lethal from close range.
drain the wing tanks and she rolls well too.
Most people fear the spitties and lala's, the bnzers go straight for the runstangs and 190's yet this thing is capable of beating them all.
Infact It should be perked :lol
SPIITYS DESERVE TO BE FEARED. Besides KIs Arent much of a problem unless your in a 9 or 8 because the climb rate is its advantage and if you dive ...well you know the rest
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SPIITYS DESERVE TO BE FEARED. Besides KIs Arent much of a problem unless your in a 9 or 8 because the climb rate is its advantage and if you dive ...well you know the rest
Perhaps you'll join BaldEagl and I for some DA time?
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SPIITYS DESERVE TO BE FEARED. Besides KIs Arent much of a problem unless your in a 9 or 8 because the climb rate is its advantage and if you dive ...well you know the rest
Heh.
- oldman
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The Ki84 is a P38 with training wheels.
:rofl, Hmm lets see. If I wanted to race BMX bikes against someone and one of the bikes had training wheels, which one do you think would win ? :aok Once learned the P38 especialy the PJ is better than the KI84---> hands down!!
KI84 is easier to get goin in, But when pitted against the thuroughbred planes with thuroughbred pilots, it falls quite short and is very limited. LOL, equal pilots the 38 will OWN the HAYATE!! :aok
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This, combined with the fact that a Ki-84 vs. a -1A is one of the best angle-fight matchups in the game, and I'm very happy every time I run into one.
HERE HERE! :aok Another very excellent match-up is KI84 vs P38J < can be very intense with the right drivers at the controls :D
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LOL, equal pilots the 38 will OWN the HAYATE!!
:huh
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Ki-84s are one of my favorite rides in Aces High.
I don't think they are Uber, no do I think they're much feared/respected.
They don't have anywhere near the high speed handling to chase much down or dive on anything (or dive away from anything) so they are fairly limited in their ability to disengage.
While they are nimble, they are not "spit 16" quality. I love the guns but as said they fire very quickly and you can waste all your ammo on 2 enemy aircraft (although I've landed 7 with no reloads before, I tend to spray more nowadays). Overall it *is* a nice plane, but definitely not uber.
I actually liked it BEFORE it got the WEP and the higher boost ratings. It took a bit more skill to win fights for that short period of time when +200 was the highest boost you could reach.
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KI84 is easier to get goin in, But when pitted against the thuroughbred planes with thuroughbred pilots, it falls quite short and is very limited. LOL, equal pilots the 38 will OWN the HAYATE!! :aok
:huh
Equal pilots, the Ki84 will OWN the P38, you got it backwards. The ki84 is only limited in a dive, everywhere else it is the thoroughbred plane. What you smokin and where can I get some?
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I agree with Grizz...wth two equal pilots Ki-84 v P-38, the Ki84 will always win.
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LOL, equal pilots the 38 will OWN the HAYATE!!
Shrek is one of the few that can perform his own proctology exam because his head is often up there anyway.
The P38 is a bit better than the Ki84 at higher speeds but at low speeds (in particular nose high), the Ki84 is a much better bird. That said, I'll fight a Ki84 in my P38 anytime because victory over a Ki84 is all the sweeter because of it.
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Ki84 has a nice low speed climb rate, IF you can get a P-38 to lose it's E. Problem is they can immelman 3x before losing steam, and usually spiral climb tight enough to get a kill shot on the Ki before the KI can dominate the 38.
If the Ki can live long enough until the 38 bleeds some E off, it will own the 38, but the 38 can kill it quite easily a number of times on the merge.
I'd say it's quite balanced between the two, with slight overall edge to the P-38 (no slight to the KI84, though)
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Out of all the aircraft we have now, The Japanese Aircraft Set is my favorite :rock. It's Got one category for everything Aside from Rocket armament, and High speed.
I respect them all, But the Ki-84 does stand out for me, I love Everything about it really...
The look, The sound, the skins, the cockpit, the performance, the Armament (Even If The ballistics are worse than most of the cannons, I never really Notice, or really care for that matter, I just like the whole thing to much To really see it as a downside)
Now, my love for the Ki-84 being said, I don't respect it OVER any other Japanese aircraft;
-I Respect the Zero's Turn rate, But its limited in the later arenas By the speed.
-Ki-61; I respect its Well-rounded Features, And I find Its pretty stable,
-I Respect the N1K2-J But I Fear it more-so Than the respect factor, my respect for it stays the same though.
They all have their own respectable Parts, But in all I don't respect one plane over another.
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If the Ki can live long enough until the 38 bleeds some E off, it will own the 38, but the 38 can kill it quite easily a number of times on the merge.
I'd say it's quite balanced between the two, with slight overall edge to the P-38 (no slight to the KI84, though)
This really isn't a subjective matter here. The Ki84 owns the 38. Surprised you don't know that for how long you've been flying. :huh
The 38 will have no easy shot on the ki84 early on like you say it will if the ki84 has any clue.
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Shrek is one of the few that can perform his own proctology exam because his head is often up there anyway.
The P38 is a bit better than the Ki84 at higher speeds but at low speeds (in particular nose high), the Ki84 is a much better bird. That said, I'll fight a Ki84 in my P38 anytime because victory over a Ki84 is all the sweeter because of it.
LOL like I said, 38 is superior. Whether in the 38 or the KI I find the 38 has best opportunity for the 1st couple of shots, I will agree once the fight degenerates to around 200 mph then the ki starts holding the cards, If the ki can get its flaps out, then it's about over. At a standard merge above 300 mph the P38 (with a GOOD) gunner
at the controls will O W N the HAYATE!
Just keep tryin to stay in the--> (I'm superior cause I fly inferior plane) mode, so we can all bask in the light of your greatness. Hero :aok
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LOL like I said, 38 is superior. Whether in the 38 or the KI I find the 38 has best opportunity for the 1st couple of shots, I will agree once the fight degenerates to around 200 mph then the ki starts holding the cards, If the ki can get its flaps out, then it's about over. At a standard merge above 300 mph the P38 (with a GOOD) gunner
at the controls will O W N the HAYATE!
Just keep tryin to stay in the--> (I'm superior cause I fly inferior plane) mode, so we can all bask in the light of your greatness. Hero :aok
Hmmm....I think me and Del for all intensive purposes are close to equal in skill and could do 5-10 Ki84 vs 38 Duels and post the results. Ki84 used to be my ride and we all know what Del flies. Although I don't think it will be a very fun experiment for Del. :D My guess is in 10 Duels, Ki84 should win 7 or 8 fights with the 38 squeaking out 2-3 based on how good of a shot he is on his one shot opportunity.
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Hmmm....I think me and Del for all intensive purposes are close to equal in skill and could do 5-10 Ki84 vs 38 Duels and post the results. Ki84 used to be my ride and we all know what Del flies. Although I don't think it will be a very fun experiment for Del. :D My guess is in 10 Duels, Ki84 should win 7 or 8 fights with the 38 squeaking out 2-3 based on how good of a shot he is on his one shot opportunity.
He's 3 times the 38 pilot you are, but it might be interesting! Fly 20 duals and each of you fly 10 in each plane!, Del did say he would be better in an uber single engine plane to me once ;)
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He's 3 times the 38 pilot you are, but it might be interesting! Fly 20 duals and each of you fly 10 in each plane!, Del did say he would be better in an uber single engine plane to me once ;)
Not that you've ever fought my 38 in a fair engagement (You don't duel, remember?), but obviously he is better in the P38. Doesn't matter though, I'll do Ki84, he can do 38's. We don't have to switch planes. Your assumption is that he is a better pilot than me therefore if I beat him in the Ki84 it will further the presumption we have made that the Ki84 is a superior plane. You should try dueling sometime, you might learn something and be able to apply it to the MA. That is of course, if your ego can handle some failure in a fair fight for the sake of getting better.
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Hmmm....I think me and Del for all intensive purposes are close to equal in skill and could do 5-10 Ki84 vs 38 Duels and post the results. Ki84 used to be my ride and we all know what Del flies. Although I don't think it will be a very fun experiment for Del. :D My guess is in 10 Duels, Ki84 should win 7 or 8 fights with the 38 squeaking out 2-3 based on how good of a shot he is on his one shot opportunity.
Never heard of you up until about 5-6 months ago.
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Never heard of you up until about 5-6 months ago.
I'm sorry.
I flew Tour's 47-51 and also 95-97. I also flew AW1 on Aol, then Aw3 on gamestorm for years. I've been around.
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I tend to let KIs be when ever I am flying around.
Most of the time they are piloted well so I do my best not to engage them.
Just have to say, this is the exact attitude that I see more and more of recently. People simply flying around looking for easy kills and avoiding challenge. I don't understand this view at all.
When I started playing it was an honor and privilege to come across a good stick and get your butt handed to you. It was also considered desirable to engage planes you knew were better than you in performance or piloting, becuase of the lessons you would no doubt learn. (When Citabria played I'd engage every P38 I ever saw). The entire idea with the game for most people was to learn about and simulate WW2 era Air Combat Maneuvers and get better at dog fighting. Now it seems only a minority of the players are interested in this. :frown:
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Not that you've ever fought my 38 in a fair engagement (You don't duel, remember?), but obviously he is better in the P38. Doesn't matter though, I'll do Ki84, he can do 38's. We don't have to switch planes. Your assumption is that he is a better pilot than me therefore if I beat him in the Ki84 it will further the presumption we have made that the Ki84 is a superior plane. You should try dueling sometime, you might learn something and be able to apply it to the MA. That is of course, if your ego can handle some failure in a fair fight for the sake of getting better.
LOL I duel plenty! and I assume nothing. I said he is 3 times the 38 pilot that you are!! Please be factual. I don't think he could touch you if he flew ki84 vs ki84. Please stop trolling. If you want to duel me than say so, can't ever seem to catch your runnin 152 in the LW :aok It seems the "soft" ego here is yours! Please remember a quote, " don't take muppet banter seriously" A little advice, don't take shreck banter seriously :D
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Not that you've ever fought my 38 in a fair engagement
This a true statement! You are usually higher than me :aok :aok :rofl :rofl
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LOL I duel plenty! and I assume nothing. I said he is 3 times the 38 pilot that you are!! Please be factual. I don't think he could touch you if he flew ki84 vs ki84. Please stop trolling. If you want to duel me than say so, can't ever seem to catch your runnin 152 in the LW :aok It seems the "soft" ego here is yours! Please remember a quote, " don't take muppet banter seriously" A little advice, don't take shreck banter seriously :D
Heh, I guess you have a new policy towards dueling because you have refused all duels I have seen in the past. Sure, we can get a few rounds in soon.
This a true statement! You are usually higher than me :aok :aok :rofl :rofl
Higher than your horde maybe. :aok
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Heh, I guess you have a new policy towards dueling because you have refused all duels I have seen in the past. Sure, we can get a few rounds in soon.
Higher than your horde maybe. :aok
L I E !
and it is very funny you say horde, lol as I have watched you while on bish, horde with alt at the edge of bases A L L O T :rofl :rofl So I know you are well above the rest of us geeky game players but, IMO you are PLENTY tardish yourself :rofl :rofl
Please bathe before you sling your mud cowboy!
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When I started playing it was an honor and privilege to come across a good stick and get your butt handed to you. It was also considered desirable to engage planes you knew were better than you in performance or piloting, becuase of the lessons you would no doubt learn. (When Citabria played I'd engage every P38 I ever saw). The entire idea with the game for most people was to learn about and simulate WW2 era Air Combat Maneuvers and get better at dog fighting. Now it seems only a minority of the players are interested in this.
Well, things change. 15 buck paid, 15 bucks worth of enjoying the game in whichever way they like it.
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I am a mediocre stick but love to fly the kI-61.Well I like the slow turn fighters.When I do go up it seems like the little red dweebs ignore everyone else and go after me.The 84 is a great little plane but the 61 will outdive it all day long.
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L I E !
and it is very funny you say horde, lol as I have watched you while on bish, horde with alt at the edge of bases A L L O T :rofl :rofl So I know you are well above the rest of us geeky game players but, IMO you are PLENTY tardish yourself :rofl :rofl
Please bathe before you sling your mud cowboy!
I'm a cynic, but it seems like these days in the MA, you're either somewhere near someone's horde, or flying in the middle of nowhere with nothing to shoot.
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Larry ate me up in a Ki84 and I'm still trying to come up with an approach for a well flown La7. I guess I'd forgotten how good La7's are when the pilot knows what they are doing. I was tagged a couple times when I misread it's E entirely and was plucked roping up. Flaps out I wasn't even getting angles much.
One of the first when I started with a bit of an E advantage we both ended up spinning into the drink. So I called that a tie, but after a bunch of deaths I still hadn't figured out how to beat one that maintains an E advantage on you.
What would any of you do given a co-alt or higher La7 that isn't a lawndart newbie?
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What would any of you do given a co-alt or higher La7 that isn't a lawndart newbie?
(In my hog) I show them my 6, get them to dive in, and then turn hard. As soon as I see they will overshoot, I reverse fast and try to get a shot off before they extend out of range.
A more risky but sometimes very successful move is to get them to follow a turn. Get them to dive on you, but don't break hard. Instead start a slow turn and see if they will follow. As they get closer turn harder and they will overshoot, but hopefully have now given up some E.
If its a really good patient pilot the situation is worse. If you are low, try to drag to the deck where you can turn the fight horizontal and bleed his E. If you are high and he is just BandZing you, there is not a lot you can do other than keep turning to avoid his attacks, and hope he gets impatient and does something stupid.
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If its a really good patient pilot the situation is worse. If you are low, try to drag to the deck where you can turn the fight horizontal and bleed his E. If you are high and he is just BandZing you, there is not a lot you can do other than keep turning to avoid his attacks, and hope he gets impatient and does something stupid.
He wouldn't bite on the overshoot, very patient. I didn't get a chance to catch him with an E advantage myself. A few where I felt a little more confident usually had a second LA7 screaming through forcing me to react and take away my initiative.
All the other Lala's didn't give me much trouble, a well flown one is just dirty. :D
I'll keep trying. :salute
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420ace, I've flown the Ki-84 a bit in the AvA matchup against the La-7, and against good pilots I found it absolutely necessary to keep the nose-up so the flaps would not auto-retract. Once you get into a good position you can get more aggressive and follow nose low with some throttle work, but if the fight is equal you cannot go nose low. I've tried cutting the throttle and using rudder, but the flaps still auto-retract in a low yo-yo, which makes the maneuver an absolute waste of the 84's abilities.
Btw, I've been flying the 84 a lot recently, and once you get used to its quirks and avoid its nasty traits, it is a killer. Flying it for base defense last night it seemed like I was landing 5-6 kills every 15 minutes.
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Sunsfan and I did 6 Ki84 vs P38 duels (3 Each). We were planning on doing at least 10 but the fights were so lopsided that it was pointless. Ki84-5 Easy Wins
P38-1 tough win
Ki84 easily outperforms the 38 in all aspects.
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KI > 38 :aok