Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: kilo2 on February 28, 2009, 01:42:03 AM
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Do 335 Pfeil
Crew: one, pilot
Length: 13.85 m (45 ft 5 in)
Wingspan: 13.8 m (45 ft 1 in)
Height: 4.55 m (15 ft)
Wing area: 55 m² (592 ft²)
Empty weight: 5,210 kg (11,484 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 8,590 kg (19,500 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Daimler-Benz DB 603A 12-cylinder inverted engines, 1,750 PS (1,726 hp, 1,287 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 765 km/h (474 mph)
Combat radius: 1,160 km (721 mi (half load))
Service ceiling: 11,400 m (37,400 ft)
Armament
1 × 30 mm MK 103 cannon (as forward engine-mounted Motorkanone)
2 × 20 mm MG 151 cannons
Up to 1000 kg (2,200 lb) bombload
This plane was a project that was completed at the end of 1944. 11 were produced and there is only one recorded case of it accutally being met in the air by another pilot. A british pilot flying a tempest saw it flying tree top level in germany gave chase but was unable to catch it. It was built as an attack plane might be fun to have it, maybe perked as its fast and well armed just a thought.
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I think there is a 150 aircraft produced minimum but not sure. :(
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Production was too late getting into its stride to enable the Do 335, or Ameisenbar (Ant Eater) as it was dubbed by some pilots, to attain operational status with the Luftwaffe. It is therefore conjecture as to how this highly unusual warplane may have fared in combat....
No combat.
wrongway
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moin
thats not completly coreckt. one un armed lufthansa version saw combat between berlin and stokholm, 2 p51 try to attack here but the pilot turns so sneaky that the 2 p51 colidet wich each other :aok.
cu chris3
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moin
thats not completly coreckt. one un armed lufthansa version saw combat between berlin and stokholm, 2 p51 try to attack here but the pilot turns so sneaky that the 2 p51 colidet wich each other :aok.
cu chris3
Any source for that? I'm wondering how the hell the Lufthansa did aquire a Do-335 ;)
EDIT:
:rofl
I found the page.. it's a prank :)
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Not squadron strength
No combat record
We'll see the P-63 before this thing. :aok
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French ace Pierre Clostermann claims the first Allied combat encounter with a Pfeil in April 1945. Leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests from No. 3 Squadron RAF over northern Germany, he intercepted by chance a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade. In spite of the Tempest's considerable speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position.
looked it up it is a claim but why would he lie? doesnt really matter though thought it might be fun to fly :D
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We'll see the P-63 before this thing. :aok
I hope so :aok
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I think there is a 150 aircraft produced minimum but not sure. :(
Nope. We have several units that fail that mark. The F4U-1C, Ta152, Ostwind and Wirbelwind all have lower production than 150.
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I've seen a number of hints that Clostermann isn't a reliable source.
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Nope. We have several units that fail that mark. The F4U-1C, Ta152, Ostwind and Wirbelwind all have lower production than 150.
Erm... 200 Chogs were produced.
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Erm... 200 Chogs were produced.
Ah. I remembered it as 100.
Me163 might also be below 150, I am not sure.
The other three I mentioned were below 150 for sure though.
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I've seen a number of hints that Clostermann isn't a reliable source.
:aok
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(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9231/inflight.jpg) (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=inflight.jpg)
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moin
@lusche
here is the link.
http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/sczedo335pb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/scze335p.htm&usg=__hyjXN6MKVGqdBbIPT4uATUCVOhs=&h=392&w=469&sz=37&hl=de&start=2&um=1&tbnid=r4c3Jk_zR8CRkM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlufthansa%2Bdo%2B335%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_deDE282DE282%26sa%3DN (http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/sczedo335pb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/scze335p.htm&usg=__hyjXN6MKVGqdBbIPT4uATUCVOhs=&h=392&w=469&sz=37&hl=de&start=2&um=1&tbnid=r4c3Jk_zR8CRkM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlufthansa%2Bdo%2B335%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_deDE282DE282%26sa%3DN)
(http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/sczedo335pa.jpg)
cu chris3
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You did note that the model builder was making it up as he went along correct?
Kinda like that famous or infamous Lancaster/Fortress mix of a model a guy did that had the weekend 'historians' scrambling because they bought his well written 'history' of the plane.
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From all accounts I have read it was a very good plane. If they had been able to produce it earlier it would have played a major role in the war.
And it doesnt matter if he was making it up as he along it met all the goals that was set for it plus some it was just way too late.
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And it doesnt matter if he was making it up as he along it met all the goals that was set for it plus some it was just way too late.
:rofl omg my sides hurt. bwaahahhahahahhaha.
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moin
you sure that the model builder wrote the story to his model? sorry my english is not so god do not notice any facks in a other language hehe, but it sounds historycaly coreckt....the part with Lufthansa lines... not hitlers escape lol. but maybe thay planed the posible escape with one of these lufthansa birds.
would be nice if we finde som real pics from this bird.
cu chris3
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moin
you sure that the model builder wrote the story to his model? sorry my english is not so god do not notice any facks in a other language hehe, but it sounds historycaly coreckt....the part with Lufthansa lines... not hitlers escape lol. but maybe thay planed the posible escape with one of these lufthansa birds.
would be nice if we finde som real pics from this bird.
cu chris3
Would you like to buy a bridge?
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???????????
what do you mean?
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Well bronk glad you got a good laugh from that. I didnt read the model thing chris posted thought he was talking about the planes creator my bad. :aok
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moin
you sure that the model builder wrote the story to his model? sorry my english is not so god do not notice any facks in a other language hehe, but it sounds historycaly coreckt....the part with Lufthansa lines... not hitlers escape lol. but maybe thay planed the posible escape with one of these lufthansa birds.
would be nice if we finde som real pics from this bird.
cu chris3
Even some non-english things things should have given you a hint. for example the alleged name of the three planes "Max Mümmelmann" "Wahnfried von Lichthofen" and "Oswald Kolle" - I wonder why the Lufthansa would name a plane in 1945 after the famous sex educator of the 60's and 70's :D
Or the Pilot's name "Winfried R. Ledigt" - for my non german friends: If you read it aloud in German, it sounds like "Winfried is done."
Or the claim they planned to add another two(!) ejection seats + additional fuel tanks for Adolf & Eva Braun
Funny page all in all ;)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
ok next time i should read all hehe.
sorry guys, i hope you got some good laughts because of me ....
but btw two more ejection seats plus extra fuel tanks......why not? thay planned alot in the last days...
cu chis3
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It acually did have ejection seats, first plane of all time. I know that parts true because it sounds logical, would you like to get hit by the prop in the back? I know I wouldn't.
I know I'll never see this plane in AH2, unless they come out with "AH2 weird plane game"
It never saw combat nor did it have any squadron use. Never play in this game.
I thought it was the Niki that had fewer than 150? I'm probably wrong but that's my assumption here. When they add the G.55, after they remodel the C.2's, that I think had fewer than 150 as well.
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It acually did have ejection seats, first plane of all time.
Wasn't the first. The first ejection was from a He 280 prototype. The first plane with ejection seats in serial-production was the He 219.
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Combat\No Combat who can to confirm this with 100% certainty.
Perk it if you have to but please add this plane. :aok
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Combat\No Combat who can to confirm this with 100% certainty.
Perk it if you have to but please add this plane. :aok
not squadron strengthen... sorry it's out.
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It acually did have ejection seats, first plane of all time. I know that parts true because it sounds logical, would you like to get hit by the prop in the back? I know I wouldn't.
I know I'll never see this plane in AH2, unless they come out with "AH2 weird plane game"
It never saw combat nor did it have any squadron use. Never play in this game.
I thought it was the Niki that had fewer than 150? I'm probably wrong but that's my assumption here. When they add the G.55, after they remodel the C.2's, that I think had fewer than 150 as well.
There were around 400-500 or so N1k2-Js built in WW2 but around 1500 in total of the N1k series so it does deserve a spot even though other japanese aircraft were far more numerous I think the n1k is there as it was one of the best pacific fighters - game balance.
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Unlike many other planes people are asking for, say the beaufighter as one, this plane would be used. Even though this plane wasn't produced
in large numbers (it is arguable in how many there where and there was a semi squadron who had these planes) it was a great plane a
answer to the p-51 d and from all accounts it would have at least been an equal to it if not better i applaud all the people lobbying for the
hanger queens but this plane has a use.
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Unlike many other planes people are asking for, say the beaufighter as one, this plane would be used. Even though this plane wasn't produced
in large numbers (it is arguable in how many there where and there was a semi squadron who had these planes) it was a great plane a
answer to the p-51 d and from all accounts it would have at least been an equal to it if not better i applaud all the people lobbying for the
hanger queens but this plane has a use.
As much as I like quirkly Luftwaffe aircraft (and the 335 is definitely a weird bird), to say that the Pfiel is the answer to the P-51 is just plain silly.
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Unlike many other planes people are asking for, say the beaufighter as one, this plane would be used. Even though this plane wasn't produced
in large numbers (it is arguable in how many there where and there was a semi squadron who had these planes) it was a great plane a
answer to the p-51 d and from all accounts it would have at least been an equal to it if not better i applaud all the people lobbying for the
hanger queens but this plane has a use.
What you speak to is probably the biggest downfall of AH. 99% of the people are only interesting in flying the latest and greatest, and have little interest in the history.
If the logic for adding planes is MA use percentage then we might as well only add late war SWOTL birds so that everyone can think they are uber pilots.
It speaks to folks not wanting a challenge, but to have every advantage they can get. The bird in question did not see combat, saw no useful purpose in the war other then to take up development resources.
A hanger queen is only that because folks are afraid to take the challenge of flying them and succeeding.
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I would love to see this in the game more than anyone here. I built one, a big one, that's why I would love it in the game. But knowing that this is only a dead argument, it will not get anywere in the thread.
I know for a fact it would be the answer to the Pony, it was the fastest fighter/attack in the war. Pilots who flew it said it flew with great ease, and no trouble at all. They had problems keeping the back engine running, due to no engine cooling. It probably could have done great damage in the war, if they produced it, but Hitler was only interested in jets, so it got no were. The first designs were acually made in 1939, very early in the war. It never got completed until the end of the war, and when they started to produce it, the factories that made it were bombed by allies.
It's just too bad that we can't have it. You would have to put a perk nearly as large as the 262. I would certainly be spending my perkies on it.
This is just a dead argument.
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I know that parts true because it sounds logical, would you like to get hit by the prop in the back? I know I wouldn't.
If IL-2 has anything right (and you figure they would in this respect), when the ejection seat was triggered, the rear prop was automatically jettisoned.
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If IL-2 has anything right (and you figure they would in this respect), when the ejection seat was triggered, the rear prop was automatically jettisoned.
From Wings of the Luftwaffe by Capt. Eric Brown
On the starboard side of the cockpit was a row of three buttons If the first button was depressed a charge was exploded which, in theory, blew off the rear airscrew, the second button activating another charge blew off the vertical tail surfaces, while the third button armed the ejector seat. The hood then had to be jettisoned manually and, finally, the seat was fired by squeezing a trigger on the arm rest.
Also:
Particularly fascinating was the story that when the two prototypes came to grief the bodies of their pilots were found to be devoid of arms. The story, recounted to me by a German pilot, alleged that the loss of the upper limbs had resulted when the unfortunate victims had gripped two inclined levers at sill level and pulled them aft to activate the hood jettison system. This action released the hood effectively, but since the levers were attached to the hood, a firm grip meant, so the story went, that the hands and arms were wrenched off with the rapidly departing canopy.
wrongway
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I know for a fact it would be the answer to the Pony, it was the fastest fighter/attack in the war.
You know this for a fact? We don't see 262's sweeping the skies of ponies, and their speed advantage over the Pony is clearly higher than that of the 335. Speed isn't everything. Granted the 335 appears to have fairly low wing loading, but a lot of rotational inertia goes with all that mass. I wouldn't expect this beast to dart around like a Yak.
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You know this for a fact? We don't see 262's sweeping the skies of ponies, and their speed advantage over the Pony is clearly higher than that of the 335. Speed isn't everything. Granted the 335 appears to have fairly low wing loading, but a lot of rotational inertia goes with all that mass. I wouldn't expect this beast to dart around like a Yak.
I can porbably tell you for a fact, that if it can beat a Tempest any day in a turn fight, then I'm almost positive that it can out turn a pony.
You answerd your own question BTW. The Do had a fairly low wing loading, and the pony had a high wing loading. Thus, a pony probably would not turn inside a Do.
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I can porbably tell you for a fact, that if it can beat a Tempest any day in a turn fight, then I'm almost positive that it can out turn a pony.
You answerd your own question BTW. The Do had a fairly low wing loading, and the pony had a high wing loading. Thus, a pony probably would not turn inside a Do.
If you read that, then you should have picked up on my comment concerning the high inertia. Agility would not be the 335's strong suit. Also IIRC, the sole encounter between the 335 and a Tempest did not involve any maneuvering per se. The 335 simply outran the Frenchman in the Tempest.
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Cthulhu have you ever looked into the hints that Clostermann either made up the encounter, or mistook something else for a Pfeil?
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Cthulhu have you ever looked into the hints that Clostermann either made up the encounter, or mistook something else for a Pfeil?
I've seen several sources in the past that hint at that, but I've never dug further into it. Wasn't the 335 being escorted by an orange-red Ta 152?? :D
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Hehe... Actually I was so lucky as to get a couple of answers directly from J.Crandall about that one :)
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Hehe... Actually I was so lucky as to get a couple of answers directly from J.Crandall about that one :)
It really existed didn't it?
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It did and he gave me a pretty exact RLM color value for it, but the log for that day said there was no enemy contact. So it fails that inclusion criteria.
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Let me put this in simple terms. How can a plane with higher wing loading, and a lower climb rate, out turn a plane with lower wing loading, and higher climb rate? You know what your saying right? That's like tring to tell somone a Yak can out turn a spit.
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Let me put this in simple terms. How can a plane with higher wing loading, and a lower climb rate, out turn a plane with lower wing loading, and higher climb rate? You know what your saying right? That's like tring to tell somone a Yak can out turn a spit.
F4U...... :noid
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F4U...... :noid
Could it do it without flaps? I can turn a spit with a 109, but when you take away flaps, I'll never win. Moot can do it with the 152, but can't do it without flaps.
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There's enough Do 335 hype on the internet to nearly rival the Ki-100 for BS factor. One site raves about the Do 335 being able to climb to 26,250 feet in under 15 minutes. Compare that to the P-38J which could get to 26k in less than 8 minutes. A P-51B at "Normal Power" (less than MIL power, much less than WEP) could get to 26k in under 14 minutes.
Another states that the "Do 335 was the fastest piston engine fighter of WWII."
Of course, the P-47M was faster and the P-51H was even faster than the Jug. This excludes prototypes like the XP-47J (504 mph at 32k) and the XP-72 (490 mph at 25k).
There is always much hype about German fighters that never saw combat. It's very much like the lost-cause culture that permeates American Civil War discussions. 90% myth, with just enough truth to suck in the gullible.
Add to the above; only 11 Do 335A-1s were completed, with none serving in operational units in combat.. This is an easy one to decide.. No way. Especially when there were F7F-3Ns and P-51Hs in operational combat units, flying combat sorties during the last week of WWII. Since no enemy were encountered, they didn't fire their guns in anger. Thus, those two are disqualified. There's the F8F-1, in operational combat units aboard carriers, just days from combat... Not qualified.
Spitfire Mk.21s saw combat in the last month of the war... Then there's the Meteor F.3 which saw considerable combat, credited with 43 Luftwaffe aircraft destroyed on the ground. How about the P-47M? This fighter equipped the entire 56th FG and saw much combat in the last two months of the war.
The fact is that the Do 335 was not built in any numbers and certainly not ready for combat before the factory was captured. It should not be in the game.
There's dozen of other aircraft of vastly greater significance that should be added before anyone even gives the late war, "almost made it" fighters any consideration.
My regards,
Widewing
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e.
There's dozen of other aircraft of vastly greater significance that should be added before anyone even gives the late war, "almost made it" fighters any consideration.
My regards,
Widewing
P-63 :noid
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PWNED! Widewing: 1 Do335: 0
Will you accept a bribe to recant your testimony on the F8F? :D
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i play the DO-335 in MS's Combat Flight Simulator III BoB .. i love it !
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Slightly off topic here but my question is, was there another German plane produced that resembled the 335, but only single engine. Reason I ask is this, several years ago here at the local airport there are several companies that deal, repair and whatever else in WWII era aircraft. For about a year sat on a tarmac a plane that was a dead ringer for the 335 minus rear engine and was ( and I'm guessing here ) same size or slightly larger. Anyways just curious.