Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Agent360 on March 22, 2009, 09:48:35 PM
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The muppets flew around an entire hour with no contact. WHAT we did find was a lone scout flying on the deck purposely flashing V93, A82 . A single rtb player found him south of A92 at about T+50. At T+65 we saw a single bomber group come in from the west.
I am pretty sure a single buff group with a NOE fighter to flash bases does not constitutesa credible attack.
I do not believe the the allies made a creditable attack on the A82 or V93. Further it specifically states in the rules that "flashing bases" for the purpose of a faint is not allowed.
There were 4 other squads on our patrol area and none saw any contact. I think there were around 50 or more fighters who flew around for an hour watching the bases flash due to the twittling fighter on the deck.
It seems lately we are having more and more "gaming the game" instead of "playing the game".
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VMF-251 was escorting LCA to hit 82 and 93. VMF-251 was sweeping to soften up fighter defenses, with LCA providing the strike package. 251 got wiped out by AKs and 325th Checkertails. LCA was down by T+60 after what made it through dropped on 82, but before anyone reached 93.
So yeah, there was a strike package. It just got exterminated before it could hit both targets.
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The bug reported that the south east side of Italy got hit hard. Mostly of the allies where there. The western part of Italy didnt get much of anything. The bug try to send you guys over to help us out.
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So yeah, there was a strike package. It just got exterminated before it could hit both targets.
:D
Great defensive plan...well executed by all. Nice to be on the other side of the smackdown for a change - even if I had to glide my 109 down from 20k after getting engine shot out.
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It was like the Roach Motel for us. We got in..we just didnt get out. Not using the A20 much I used up my ammo strafing a hangar down. By the time I needed it, it was gone.
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after over an hour of -nothing- most of AOM landed and went to the mains in disgust, Tec and myself decided to rearm and headed towards NME territory when we reached there airfield at around 20 k, we were soundly pounced upon by an uncountable number of spits mostly with a major alt advantage :rofl
talk about - mine...mine...mine...mine...m ine
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Was quite rewarding and yummy for the UNFORGIVEN ;) wtg
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I don't envy the allies...the axis fielded 25% more fighters than their opposition.
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The 367th was also tasked with escorting the 83-92 strike. Our formation of P-40s was attacked on the way to the rally point by 6-8 +Precision 109s. All attempts to break contact and make the rendezvous were unsuccessful. By the time we dispatched these 109s we were already too low and slow to catch the bombers. We also had two or three more 109s harassing the formation and preventing us from regaining our altitude. At this point most of the squad was flying bent birds and extremely low on ammo. But we decided to turn nose on 93 and attempt to arrive before the formation and tie up some of the CAP. I don’t believe we made it to within 40miles of 93 before we encountered the Unforgiven, were overwhelmed and killed. Sorry we couldn’t provide some entertainment, we were too busy getting out arses kicked.
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The 367th was also tasked with escorting the 83-92 strike. Our formation of P-40s was attacked on the way to the rally point by 6-8 +Precision 109s. All attempts to break contact and make the rendezvous were unsuccessful. By the time we dispatched these 109s we were already too low and slow to catch the bombers.
Arses kicked? At least some of you rtb'd. Your attackers did not. :P
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Despite being shot up and low on ammo we attempted to make it to 93 and support LCA. We didn’t know the bombers were already dead. We were able to knock down a few but none of us made it home.
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Hmmm... the logs show some of the 367th as having landed safely.
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I saw that too. Don’t know where that’s coming from but if you look at the detailed report all our aircraft were shot down. Couple of the guys who died early joined the remaining a/c… could it be counting those?
Ah well, it was an exciting frame just one of those were everyone knows before we launch that it’s going to be a one way trip.
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The only successful landing I saw was as a gunner-observer, and that person had all ready been shot down.
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The LCA was about 2 sectors from A82 when Saxman reported contact ahead. We turned from our course to avoid contact, and was able to do so. We then went nose on to target. Our formation separated a bit in the turn and and a few B-26's in the back were already engaged with 109's. By the time we were 60 seconds out we had lost 25% of our planes. I was bounced 15 seconds from drop and had to switch to my guns. I was able to switch back and make a drop but missed. Then was shot down shortly after. Most of the B-26's fell to about the same fate. I gunned for the last B-26 and just about made it to target before being bounced and shot down by 3 FW190's and at least a dozen 109's.
The LCA would like to :salute the defending forces. Nice job :salute
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It's always easier to defend than attack.
Allies had 8 targets to attack, 2 to defend.
Axis had 2 to attack, 8 to defend.
In hind site, I should have put more of our groups in escort, but we all learn, and move on.
There were more Axis pilots in than Allies, and Allies had a lot of Buffs in the air.
That's not a good mix for the Allies. The Axis plan worked well against us.
:salute
TY Allies for attempting to to execute the plan.
Agent360, learn how to spell, and welcome to what may happen in any FSO.
:salute
Newman
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The 367th was also tasked with escorting the 83-92 strike. Our formation of P-40s was attacked on the way to the rally point by 6-8 +Precision 109s. All attempts to break contact and make the rendezvous were unsuccessful. By the time we dispatched these 109s we were already too low and slow to catch the bombers. We also had two or three more 109s harassing the formation and preventing us from regaining our altitude. At this point most of the squad was flying bent birds and extremely low on ammo. But we decided to turn nose on 93 and attempt to arrive before the formation and tie up some of the CAP. I don't believe we made it to within 40miles of 93 before we encountered the Unforgiven, were overwhelmed and killed. Sorry we couldn't provide some entertainment, we were too busy getting out arses kicked.
:salute Jappa
The one thing you did accomplish is take the escorts away from our JU-88's. When we got close to your boats we were annihilated before being able to drop one bomb. Our Gunners did take some with us, but a failed mission non the less.
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<S> Allies
We had a slow start to our night also. We were tasked to defend C112 with 2 other groups. After 55 minuets of waiting the buffs finally trickled in, with only 2 targets we expected a horde but were supprised it was only a few buffs and even fewer escorts. After rearming at 84 we went and harassed 51 and 85 until low on fuel and ammo. Ended the night with 22 confirmed kills and only 2 losses for the group, a good night.
These are the things we have come to expect. Some nights you have non stop action, some nights are half and half, some nights are nothing at all. We like the fact that you never know what to expect, brings another element into it.
<S>
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To the comments above....... so go the fortunes of war.
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It's always easier to defend than attack.
Allies had 8 targets to attack, 2 to defend.
Axis had 2 to attack, 8 to defend.
In hind site, I should have put more of our groups in escort, but we all learn, and move on.
There were more Axis pilots in than Allies, and Allies had a lot of Buffs in the air.
That's not a good mix for the Allies. The Axis plan worked well against us.
:salute
TY Allies for attempting to to execute the plan.
Agent360, learn how to spell, and welcome to what may happen in any FSO.
:salute
Newman
First off to hell with your spelling comment. ..|.. And second I have been playing FSO for years so don't patronise me.
"Defending is easier than attacking"....so what the hell does that have to do with anything. That is nothing but superfluous rhetoric
The axis had more pilots than allies....so what. Sounds like you are making excuses.
The fact remains the allies DID NOT make a creditable attack. Even if all there buffs were shot down they still didn't attack V93 or A82. And what about the single plane flashing the bases on purpose????????
No figher sweep. No attack on mandatory targets. Nothing!!! There was absolutely NO attempt by any allied planes enter those sectors.
Are you telling me that every single fighter and buff the allies had was shot down and that is why they didn't attack their targets? And even if that is what happened then the penalty should still apply. It doesn't say anything in the rules about "if all your planes are shot down" then you don't get the penalty. In fact I know its not true because 2 muppets re armed and went back out and got jumped by large numbers of p40's....why didnt those p40's at least make an attempt to fighter sweep the targets I mentioned?????
Further, these two bases were two of the three forward targets. So out of all your planes you could only manage to hit one stinking target out of a total of 5!!!...omg you have got to be kidding.
That is why the rules are the way they are. If the planning is such that you fly a very risky plan and your forces are decimated that is your fault and you get any penalties due.
Not to mention the "Spirit of the event"...which seems to have been forgotton.
There is no shortage of "back slapping....good job salute" but any time someown speaks up about the "dirty laundry" they always seem to be labled a whiner..tool or whatever.
Hey if I got it all wrong then point out the evidence. If I am right then own up to it.
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I don't think the penalty would apply if indeed the allies simply never made it to target. Whether that's what happened is something else. I wasn't there so I can't comment. The defensive line was solid for the whole time I was there. At least two layers of fighters going back and forth at ~20k, uncontested.
I shot down the airplane (single spitfire in pink camo, seemingly afk at 25k on a slightly north-of-west heading) that made a couple of bases (94 and probably 92, 89, 90 before it) flash, and then found a single B26 formation missing one drone and leaking oil (if not engine dead) on one of the two remaining planes trying to bomb A82 from relatively low altitude (was something like 15k or les. As far as I saw during the scenario (ripped a wing off on my own, somehow, then logged), that's all that got to mandatory targets A82/A93.
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See Rule #4
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Hummmmmm 81 allied planes landed.
The Axis had 255 pilots while the Allies had 242. That is only a difference of 13 pilots. Not enough to make any difference. And what about those 81 planes that landed.?
The Allies landed 33% percent of thier forces land but still could not attack thier targets. :rolleyes:
Allies stats:
Pilots: 242 Kills: 169 Assists: 154
Objects Destroyed: 50 Deaths: 105 Landed: 81
Bailed: 20 Captured: 42 Crashed: 15
Ditched: 9 Disco'd: 10
Axis stats:
Pilots: 255 Kills: 214 Assists: 164
Objects Destroyed: 12 Deaths: 89 Landed: 103
Bailed: 40 Captured: 22 Crashed: 14
Ditched: 8 Disco'd: 10
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See Rule #6
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See Rule #4
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my god i can't stop basking in the glow of you outraged muppets
The stats themself show the axis made alot of kills. You're just crying that your plans failed.
Please dont tell me you're giving up on the oink thing and now trying to make people conform in FSO?
Seriously, im not stirring the pot, I cannot see what this is apart from another avenue for you to vent your displeasure at 'what the game has become'
alarmed,
bat
:salute
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My god I can't stop basking in the radioactive glow of your inane stupidity.
See what I did there?
Agent might be pissed off, and totally wrong (I think both, personally), but that's got nothing to do with our squad or 'what the game has become' or whatever fantasy your hormone imbalance made you dream up this time.
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Now now moot, trying to get personal wont do your intelligence any justice. Frankly, i thought better of you. Hormone imbalance or too much reefer, i dont mind what you want to think of me.
For the case in hand:
The muppets flew around an entire hour with no contact.
[snip]
It seems lately we are having more and more "gaming the game" instead of "playing the game".
I wont even bother with the rest of Agent's this speaks volumes enough
after over an hour of -nothing- most of AOM landed and went to the mains in disgust, Tec and myself decided to rearm and headed towards NME territory when we reached there airfield at around 20 k, we were soundly pounced upon by an uncountable number of spits mostly with a major alt advantage :rofl
talk about - mine...mine...mine...mine...m ine
So, after an hour you all bailed out just before the real action started.
Read what newman said again after calming down.
Hate me as much as you like.
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Ink is even more wrong than Agent seems to be. No single muppet speaks for the whole squad. I don't hate you, I just think you're full of poop.
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Bat,
I have clearly made my point. If you don't like my point that is fine.
And now you are trying to turn this thread into another "bash the muppets" thread.
CM - please lock this thread as now we have a total idiot hijacking it and turning it into a purse fight which IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.
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For the case in hand:
I wont even bother with the rest of Agent's this speaks volumes enough
chopping up his post to make a point that wasn't there, is a little much, bat. I read the post to say, there was no credible attack on targets.....which is a rule....... flashing the base to faint, is also against the rules........Newman answered neither of these incidents. Maybe you care to?
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oh great here comes the gang bang.
:O
Flashing the base could have been anything including a dramatic 'rule breaking' faint attack, non-credible attack, or even a lone player who was lost. As for credible attacks, It seems attacks were planned and aborted due to casualties sustained. Maybe the allies just did not have enough players on the night to attack all eight targets without spreading suicidaly thin?
Damn, its almost like you are complaining about the rank tables and score pages just instead of enjoying the fight?
Dont you find it sad that some muppets logged off 'in disgust' after one hour only to leave their teammates at the mercy of some spitfires?
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Dont you find it sad that some muppets logged off 'in disgust' after one hour only to leave their teammates at the mercy of some spitfires?
I think it's a stupid way to put it and it's also not characteristic of what happened. Like I said no one squaddie speaks for the whole squad. But you're evidently not above taking that bogus premise and running with it.
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straight answers -----------> [Brick wall] moot
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I didn't make a post earlier because last time I looked, the discussion was fairly civil. It has rapidly gone downhill.
The scoring will reflect some penalties here, for reasons that will be discussed in the scoring thread that you'll see posted later tonight. A credible attack is defined as an attack conducted by a squadron-sized force or larger. The Admin CM has some leeway with how that gets interpreted, and we've even started to define it for each FSO. Typically, 12 aircraft or more is the baseline. That being said, flashing bases does not constitute an attack. There were objectives that weren't attacked, and for different reasons.
The fact that some attack groups got whacked before they got to their objectives is a design flaw in the setup, a.k.a. Stoney's fault, and no one elses. A good set of objectives sets up 2D geometry that will prevent different forces from blundering into each other. Partially that's a factor of the geography of Italy, and in trying to preserve some historical context, I took a bit of a risk of having this type of scenario play out. For the most part, what should have happened is that LCA and Sax's boys wouldn't have gotten engaged until they ran into the defenders of their objective.
Was there some poor planning in Frame 2? Perhaps, or perhaps it was merely poor execution. Ultimately the goal of FSO is to maximize the amount of action that the players get--after all, that's why you guys all show up for. It is my, and if I may speak for the rest of the FSO staff, our, goal to provide setups that are coherent, historically representative, and fun. Sometimes we fail at one or all of those facets, even though we mean not to. Sometimes CICs put together plans that are skewed from our preconceptions and expectations of how each side would plan and execute a frame; we sometimes don't anticipate the "creativity" of the players :)...
That being said, no one on either side was purposefully trying to wreck anyone's FSO. Lets all just remember that we're all here for the same reasons, and that's to have fun. See you guys for Frame 3, and I personally look forward to the opportunity to meet everyone's expectations for a fun, action-packed FSO that you've all learned to expect.
<S>
Stoney
p.s. Can we please have an end to the sniping back and forth?
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I don't think there was anything illegitimate done in the whole FSO. Someone went afk and flashed bases with his spitfire. The rest of the groups never made it to target. A couple of players interpreted that as intentional disregard for the rules. They're wrong. I have no problem with russian roulette odds giving me an action-less FSO every now and then.. You can't do anything about that, that's just the way wargames work.
Then someone comes along and turns that into sniping vs. a particular squad that he can't stand for whatever reason. I think it's pretty clear who's guilty of what here.
I'm also done.
<S>
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<S>
Stoney
p.s. Can we please have an end to the sniping back and forth?
done.
<S>
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I don't think there was anything illegitimate done in the whole FSO. Someone went afk and flashed bases with his spitfire. The rest of the groups never made it to target. A couple of players interpreted that as intentional disregard for the rules. They're wrong. I have no problem with russian roulette odds giving me an action-less FSO every now and then.. You can't do anything about that, that's just the way wargames work.
Then someone comes along and turns that into sniping vs. a particular squad that he can't stand for whatever reason. I think it's pretty clear who's guilty of what here.
I'm also done.
<S>
That's fantastic turn-around moot, round of applause.
I like to think i have a number of friends in the muppets. Seems to me though the more i speak my honest thoughts in any of the regular muppet dramas i have less friends in the muppets. So what? I dont agree with some muppets acting like fascists with regard to how the game should be played. Big deal! I claimed i owned all muppets when you were all complaining about no good fights. I have fought every muppet offer since then and done pretty well for myself i must admit. Who cares? I call what looks to me like a whine about a poor FSO for muppets and do it with a grin to be greeted with genuine spite. Is anyone still even reading?
You say you dont speak for each other, yet again I have to point out that you have no choice in that matter. You will brand each other with the actions of individuals. What's more, half of you sport the same avatar, the same BBs opinions, the same game ethic, even the love of luftwaffe rides in many case. Sure there are individuals who stick out. Also the more vocal BBs and ch200 muppet elements seem to cast out 'the muppet's opinion' in formation at times.[/hijack]
As the outside observer, the general impression is some players had a slow start to their FSO night and left, bored, leaving the rest to fight some high alt spitfires and then this whole score page arguement broke out.
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p.s. Can we please have an end to the sniping back and forth?
Mechanic, let me be more lucid, since my apparently cryptic post script didn't translate well into English...
ENOUGH already!
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wow sorry to say the wrong thing, I certainly don't speak for the squad so my words were wrong, I should have said "I was disgusted..."
damn I was so wrong I typed spits when I guess they were P-40s :rofl :rofl
I think FSO rocks and those that take time out of there own personal life to provide us AHers a good time should be saluted
:salute
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I drew the plans for frame 2, but was not able to attend. KOOL was game day CiC after checking for errors in the orders, drawing the maps, and sending them.
I'll be happy to share them with anyone once this tour is over.
:salute
Newman
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Thank you Stoney for the great explanation.
:salute
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Mechanic, let me be more lucid, since my apparently cryptic post script didn't translate well into English...
I giggled.
Batfink, have a beer, man. Good for the soul.
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I see several people not long for this bulletin board, if they continue posting in the manner they are currently posting.
This thread is a wreck.