Allies did not use a crediable force

[SkyRock]

For the case in hand:

I wont even bother with the rest of Agent's this speaks volumes enough

chopping up his post to make a point that wasn't there, is a little much, bat.  I read the post to say, there was no credible attack on targets.....which is a rule....... flashing the base to faint, is also against the rules........Newman answered neither of these incidents.   Maybe you care to?

[mechanic]

oh great here comes the gang bang.
 


Flashing the base could have been anything including a dramatic 'rule breaking' faint attack, non-credible attack, or even a lone player who was lost. As for credible attacks, It seems attacks were planned and aborted due to casualties sustained. Maybe the allies just did not have enough players on the night to attack all eight targets without spreading suicidaly thin?

Damn, its almost like you are complaining about the rank tables and score pages just instead of enjoying the fight?

Dont you find it sad that some muppets logged off 'in disgust' after one hour only to leave their teammates at the mercy of some spitfires?

[moot]

Dont you find it sad that some muppets logged off 'in disgust' after one hour only to leave their teammates at the mercy of some spitfires?

I think it's a stupid way to put it and it's also not characteristic of what happened. Like I said no one squaddie speaks for the whole squad.  But you're evidently not above taking that bogus premise and running with it.

[mechanic]

straight answers -----------> [Brick wall]                         moot

[Stoney]

I didn't make a post earlier because last time I looked, the discussion was fairly civil.  It has rapidly gone downhill.

The scoring will reflect some penalties here, for reasons that will be discussed in the scoring thread that you'll see posted later tonight.  A credible attack is defined as an attack conducted by a squadron-sized force or larger.  The Admin CM has some leeway with how that gets interpreted, and we've even started to define it for each FSO.  Typically, 12 aircraft or more is the baseline.  That being said, flashing bases does not constitute an attack.  There were objectives that weren't attacked, and for different reasons.

The fact that some attack groups got whacked before they got to their objectives is a design flaw in the setup, a.k.a. Stoney's fault, and no one elses.  A good set of objectives sets up 2D geometry that will prevent different forces from blundering into each other.  Partially that's a factor of the geography of Italy, and in trying to preserve some historical context, I took a bit of a risk of having this type of scenario play out.  For the most part, what should have happened is that LCA and Sax's boys wouldn't have gotten engaged until they ran into the defenders of their objective.

Was there some poor planning in Frame 2?  Perhaps, or perhaps it was merely poor execution.  Ultimately the goal of FSO is to maximize the amount of action that the players get--after all, that's why you guys all show up for.  It is my, and if I may speak for the rest of the FSO staff, our, goal to provide setups that are coherent, historically representative, and fun.  Sometimes we fail at one or all of those facets, even though we mean not to.  Sometimes CICs put together plans that are skewed from our preconceptions and expectations of how each side would plan and execute a frame; we sometimes don't anticipate the "creativity" of the players ...

That being said, no one on either side was purposefully trying to wreck anyone's FSO.  Lets all just remember that we're all here for the same reasons, and that's to have fun.  See you guys for Frame 3, and I personally look forward to the opportunity to meet everyone's expectations for a fun, action-packed FSO that you've all learned to expect.

<S>

Stoney

p.s.  Can we please have an end to the sniping back and forth?

[moot]

I don't think there was anything illegitimate done in the whole FSO.  Someone went afk and flashed bases with his spitfire.  The rest of the groups never made it to target.  A couple of players interpreted that as intentional disregard for the rules.  They're wrong. I have no problem with russian roulette odds giving me an action-less FSO every now and then.. You can't do anything about that, that's just the way wargames work.
Then someone comes along and turns that into sniping vs. a particular squad that he can't stand for whatever reason.  I think it's pretty clear who's guilty of what here.

I'm also done. 
<S>

[SkyRock]

<S>

Stoney

p.s.  Can we please have an end to the sniping back and forth?

done.
<S>

[mechanic]

I don't think there was anything illegitimate done in the whole FSO.  Someone went afk and flashed bases with his spitfire.  The rest of the groups never made it to target.  A couple of players interpreted that as intentional disregard for the rules.  They're wrong. I have no problem with russian roulette odds giving me an action-less FSO every now and then.. You can't do anything about that, that's just the way wargames work.
Then someone comes along and turns that into sniping vs. a particular squad that he can't stand for whatever reason.  I think it's pretty clear who's guilty of what here.

I'm also done. 
<S>

That's fantastic turn-around moot, round of applause.
 I like to think i have a number of friends in the muppets. Seems to me though the more i speak my honest thoughts in any of the regular muppet dramas i have less friends in the muppets. So what? I dont agree with some muppets acting like fascists with regard to how the game should be played. Big deal! I claimed i owned all muppets when you were all complaining about no good fights. I have fought every muppet offer since then and done pretty well for myself i must admit. Who cares? I call what looks to me like a whine about a poor FSO for muppets and do it with a grin to be greeted with genuine spite. Is anyone still even reading?

You say you dont speak for each other, yet again I have to point out that you have no choice in that matter. You will brand each other with the actions of individuals. What's more, half of you sport the same avatar, the same BBs opinions, the same game ethic, even the love of luftwaffe rides in many case. Sure there are individuals who stick out. Also the more vocal BBs and ch200 muppet elements seem to cast out 'the muppet's opinion' in formation at times.[/hijack]


As the outside observer, the general impression is some players had a slow start to their FSO night and left, bored, leaving the rest to fight some high alt spitfires and then this whole score page arguement broke out.

[Stoney]

p.s.  Can we please have an end to the sniping back and forth?

Mechanic, let me be more lucid, since my apparently cryptic post script didn't translate well into English...

ENOUGH already! 

[ink]

wow sorry to say the wrong thing, I certainly don't speak for the squad so my words were wrong, I should have said "I was disgusted..."

damn I was so wrong I typed spits when I guess they were P-40s   

I think FSO rocks and those that take time out of there own personal life to provide us AHers a good time  should be saluted

 

[Newman]

I drew the plans for frame 2, but was not able to attend. KOOL was game day CiC after checking for errors in the orders, drawing the maps, and sending them.

I'll be happy to share them with anyone once this tour is over.

 

Newman

[Agent360]

Thank you Stoney for the great explanation.

 

[Saurdaukar]

Mechanic, let me be more lucid, since my apparently cryptic post script didn't translate well into English...

I giggled.

Batfink, have a beer, man.  Good for the soul.

[Skuzzy]

I see several people not long for this bulletin board, if they continue posting in the manner they are currently posting. 

This thread is a wreck.