Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: StokesAk on March 26, 2009, 07:45:04 PM
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Do you fly with tracers on or off. Why?
I fly with them off cause all of those streaks confuse me and I aim worse.
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On.
Without tracers I'm gradually losing my aim over time. From no trouble during the first few sorties to not being able to hit anything even at point blank range after a week.
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Sometimes I fly with them off, but for the most part they are on as I can't hit jack.
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off for a couple reasons.
most times those tracers streaks confuse the issue for me as well
I find with tracers on, I tend to walk my bullet stream to target, which wastes ammo and sometimes needed time. With them off, I tend to aim in the right spot more often....then again, I have no choice as I don't have many clues as to how far off I am.
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On.
Im a terrible shot without and not much better with :D
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I flew with them off for years, hit percentage actually went up, turned them on a few months ago and hit percentage went up even more. Dont know why. With them off its like shooting doves.
They were in fact a distraction to me at first. Now I have a better idea when to start pulling the trigger and the tracers are less of a distraction and more of an aid. I think playing with them off helps in the long run. It made me a better shot.
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Do you fly with tracers on or off. Why?
I fly with them off cause all of those streaks confuse me and I aim worse.
When I first started, had them on. Then Manx told me to try turning them off to force me to lead with the gunsight instead of tracers. I did that and watched my Hit % within a week climb from a paltry 5% or so to 10% and then averaged around 15% afterwards. Kept them off like that for about 7 years and then turned them back on for the last couple of tours I flew and improved my hit % by 2% when I switched them back on.
Boils down to personal preference after you get the hang of leading with your gunsight instead of the tracers.
ack-ack
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Off... I'm not a great shot, so I don't want alert the guy I'm trying to kill when my first burst flies past his cockpit.
Also, as others have already said, they distract me.
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Off... I'm not a great shot, so I don't want alert the guy I'm trying to kill when my first burst flies past his cockpit.
Also, as others have already said, they distract me.
Off, for the same reasons as the above
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On. So I can see where the bullets are actually going vs. where I want them to go. I want to see how much I'm missing by.
wrongway
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off, tracers are weaker than normal ball ammo if that is modeled into the game. It also forces me to aim better and gain a better sight picture before pulling the trigger.
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nvm
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James the tracers in AH are just for visual and do not effect your hit count or effectiveness.
I turn them off because they distract intuitive aim.
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That's why I put I didn't know if it was modeled with less power in the game. I have to use tracers for cannon planes either way. My gunnery with cannons belongs in the outhouse.
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Off
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Off
I like to say I turned them off originally because I was so good, but that wasn't the case. My video card on my old computer died everytime the bullet trails were rendered, dropping my frame rate to 5. It was either learn to fly with them off, or leave AH.
That said, I find tracers off to be be better in every way except when you are trying to clear a friendly's 6 o'clock position, or for screenshots.
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Use to turn them off because of they were a bother during a fight, but then I started flying the LA's and now its fine because on the LA's they seem to be few and far spaced........... :salute
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That's why I put I didn't know if it was modeled with less power in the game. I have to use tracers for cannon planes either way. My gunnery with cannons belongs in the outhouse.
I wasnt trying to correct you just informing you. :D
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on,....I'm one of them dummys that think they were invented for a reason... :huh
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Off
They confuse me and make me waste ammo through using them as a aim device instead of my gunsight.
They also notify my enemy that Im shooting. If I miss without the tracers he doesnt know Im shooting and hence continues to fly predictably. If I miss with tracers he goes into super defensive or panic mode which makes him harder to hit.
Tex
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On.
When I hit my target, I don't notice them. When I miss, I do notice them, and correct based on where they're going.
I find them more accurate than my gunsight, which I also ignore for the most part. The gunsight is really only an accurate representation of where your bullets go if you're flying level and at 1G. Any deviation from that and you can toss the gunsight out the window. I seldom fire while flying straight and level, so the gunsight is seldom "accurate" for me.
Personally, the more attention I pay to the sight the worse I shoot.
On the other hand, the tracers always fly in the same area as the rest of my bullets, so give me a fairly accurate representation of where my bullets are going no matter what my flight attitude is...
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On.
When I hit my target, I don't notice them. When I miss, I do notice them, and correct based on where they're going.
I find them more accurate than my gunsight, which I also ignore for the most part. The gunsight is really only an accurate representation of where your bullets go if you're flying level and at 1G. Any deviation from that and you can toss the gunsight out the window. I seldom fire while flying straight and level, so the gunsight is seldom "accurate" for me.
Personally, the more attention I pay to the sight the worse I shoot.
On the other hand, the tracers always fly in the same area as the rest of my bullets, so give me a fairly accurate representation of where my bullets are going no matter what my flight attitude is...
:aok
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I've seen several people here saying that tracers confuse them.
How?
Isn't it easier to see exactly where your bulletstream is going?
**This is not an insult, but a genuine question**
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I fly with them off when im in G14 with tater. Nothing like a no-warning-one-shot-kill
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I fly with them off cause all of those streaks confuse me and I aim worse.
same here. with them on I was actually closing my eyes when firing :rolleyes:
I have turned them on occasionally just to try to get decent screenshots.
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I've seen several people here saying that tracers confuse them.
How?
Isn't it easier to see exactly where your bulletstream is going?
**This is not an insult, but a genuine question**
When I miss with tracers on I always try too see where I missed... "did the tracers go infront or behind my enemy"... Its not easy to see exactly where they went instead if I have tracers off I trust my instincts and adjust in 9 out of 10 cases this adjustment is correct.
Why simply because any time I miss I dont lead my shot enough. I dont need to bother to look and try to see where I missed inorder to know that I should extend my lead.
There is one situation in which turning on tracers can be a good thing. Its if you have flown 50 cal or hispano planes for ages and move to Jap or German planes. Then it could be good to turn on the tracers just to find our exactly how much the guns drop. But just for a few sorties and then turn them off again.
Tex
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On....
" ...Patches, when you out-fly your opponent...and acquire his 6 close in...it doesn't matter whether your tracers are on, or off. "
These words were spoken to me by a former Squad Mate in VMF-158 The Green Mountain Boys and he was an experienced Naval Pilot who was, at one time, an instructor at the Navy Fighter Weapons School in Miramar, California.
Fly first...shoot second. Gunnery only proves who out-flew whom.
Just a thought...
<S>
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On....
" ...Patches, when you out-fly your opponent...and acquire his 6 close in...it doesn't matter whether your tracers are on, or off. "
These words were spoken to me by a former Squad Mate in VMF-158 The Green Mountain Boys and he was an experienced Naval Pilot who was, at one time, an instructor at the Navy Fighter Weapons School in Miramar, California.
Yeah but...modern navy doesn't rely on tracers that much these days!
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Its all good chalenge. There's a lot modeled and not modeled in the game. I haven't seen anything that describes what is modeled in. I've used m2 .50 calibers and 25mm bushmasters and can tell the difference of power in ammo loadout in RL. In the game I see no difference at all in power but didn't know if maybe the model was inaccurate or there at all. I'm glad there's someone out there that knows and is willing to share it really. Usually I get the whole "wow your a noob and how could you not know" thing here lol. <S>
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I've seen several people here saying that tracers confuse them.
How?
Isn't it easier to see exactly where your bulletstream is going?
**This is not an insult, but a genuine question**
I use to have this thing that when I pulled the trigger at the one instance when it was the best angle and the rounds should be right on target, I would get this micro second of screen freeze that was just enough to throw my aim off by making me over compensate. It was just enough to throw you out of sink with the plane your shooting at, I don't notice it as much now and they also had a tendency of overloading the screen and I found myself looking at the tracers and not the target, and that in part was confusing, so I learned how to shoot without them and got pretty good at it.
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I have tracers on for two reasons;
1.) To help clear a squad-mates (or any friendly's) 6. Even if I miss, most pilots will still break their engagement (if they can't get a quick kill) when being shot at.
2.) To help a squad-mate (or any friendly) GV, by strafing enemy GV's. again not trying for a kill, just to help ID targets.
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I use to have this thing that when I pulled the trigger at the one instance when it was the best angle and the rounds should be right on target, I would get this micro second of screen freeze that was just enough to throw my aim off by making me over compensate. It was just enough to throw you out of sink with the plane your shooting at
I have exactly the same thing, it was highly annoying! Even turning down the graphics wouldn't work...
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I have tracers on for two reasons;
1.) To help clear a squad-mates (or any friendly's) 6. Even if I miss, most pilots will still break their engagement (if they can't get a quick kill) when being shot at.
2.) To help a squad-mate (or any friendly) GV, by strafing enemy GV's. again not trying for a kill, just to help ID targets.
So by turning tracers "off," it's actually simulating not loading tracers into your guns? So no other pilots see the tracers either?
That would be highly useful in many situations, because if you've snuck up on somebody (or are bouncing them,) your first burst won't give away that you're shooting at them.
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So by turning tracers "off," it's actually simulating not loading tracers into your guns? So no other pilots see the tracers either?
That would be highly useful in many situations, because if you've snuck up on somebody (or are bouncing them,) your first burst won't give away that you're shooting at them.
Correct. Exceptions are ground vehicles, manned guns, and bombers. Even with your tracers off, others will still see these rounds.
As for the second point, that is why many prefer them off. It is certainly one of the reasons why I have mine off, along with frame rate and distraction issues. That being said, I feel like I used to land more kills with tracers on, even if my hit % was lower. I just don't fire as much lead (metal, not leading :) ) nowadays, and land sorties with more ammo it seems. I have considered going back to tracers, to be honest.
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off for a couple reasons.
most times those tracers streaks confuse the issue for me as well
I find with tracers on, I tend to walk my bullet stream to target, which wastes ammo and sometimes needed time. With them off, I tend to aim in the right spot more often....then again, I have no choice as I don't have many clues as to how far off I am.
same here exactly :aok
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Tracers on. Chicks dig tracers!
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OFF
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Off as well.. Never want someone to know I'm shooting until the bullets hit.. :t
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ON. They help me with hitting bombers as I tend to take harsh angles on them and open up from farther away. If I'm shooting at a fighter there are only two scenarios:
1: the guy knows I'm there, so tracers won't matter
2: the guy doesn't know I'm there and will be dead before he knows what hit him, so tracers won't matter.
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On.
The only advantage I see with them off is the long range shot when you are on their tail. He won't know you are firing and may straighten out. Other than that, at least for me, tracers off hinder my aim and lead in every other situation. The one advantage listed above isn't worth all the disadvantages imo.
Sometimes I fire, miss, see where I missed, and then fire again with better lead and angle and connect. Tracers are like a constant reminder and learning tool showing you where you are missing especially on awkward angles.
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Tracers.......
My aiming is bad enough as it is. :lol
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Tracers - on.
Over the past 9 months I've improved my shooting with several actions. The amount of improvement is fine for me in terms of how much I play and "NOT" have to build a vacation home the DA. I've always been confused by a tone in this game that WE are some how lesser MEN or human beings if OUR stats don't elevate US to some undefined uber ACE level. I guess if I accidently get there the uber ACE's will greet me with a key to the UBER washroom in the UBER vacation home... :rolleyes:
The Actions I've Taken.
1. I built a new computer. That removed 90% of hardware related problems. I could no longer play Aces High after the last major update.
2. I resolved a number of USB related problems on the new PC with XP, X52Pro, and TrackIR which improved my flight control response and controler reliability.
3. During one of the recent game updates "Force Feedback" was enabled. I've always had it off because it will cause your nose to bounce and reduce your flight control if you don't have a "Force Feedback" stick.
4. This solution ranks about 50% in improving my shooting versus the previous 3 things combined. I started creating my own gunsights based on how my eyes work in offline testing to have usable distance and lead rings along with usable elevation ticks. By accident I found an auwful Lime Green color that the game translates into a (white-yellowish-green) almost neon glow that stands out on everything in the game you aim it at. I learned to shoot long range with a MilDot scope in real life. Shooting in the game is like looking through a Bushnell "HOLO Sight" on a shotgun while shooting at skeet clay.
Some people can hit anything they can see with a brass nail stuck on the end of their barrel. This takes more time than it's worth to me living in the game to get that good. I found creating a sight picture which my brain understands during those (+-)1-2 seconds that shooting takes place removes some of the need for repititious hours practicing in the game. Lately I have begun to notice many of us pull the trigger too late and aim too low. <------One of the benifits of watching furballs with full Zoom on.
Something to think about, and why I start my gunsights with a small center circle whose bottom is the bullet drop compensation aimpoint for 200yds.
If you set your convergence to 200yds and fly level on a cons dead six with your cross hair centered on the con. Most of your rounds will drop behind and below the con when you shoot. You need to aim a tiny bit ahead of him to drop the rounds on him because both of your planes are in motion and not like shooting 200yds from a sandbag at a paper target. Once you establish with offline testing where that 200yd bullet drop compensation point is for your eyes, the 400yd and 600yd rings become easy.
A free application thats good for creating gunsights: Paint.net
Paint.net does that nice blurr effect you see with the default sights in the game along with giving you control over the Luminosity of the finished product. You can zoom to about 1200% and clean up individual pixles while zooming out to small enough to see how it will look in your planes cockpit. Just remember to save your gunsight as an 8-bit 256X256 bitmap with a black background and keep a black border of about 4-5 pixles deep from the edge's so the game will see your gunsight and you won't get bleed lines out to the edges of your gunsight's glass reflector plate.
http://www.getpaint.net/
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off
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On
They never really distracted me. I never really even notice them. The reason I keep them on is that if they are flying a faster plane than I, Sometimes if you lead them right, and put the bullets close or just above, you can "scare" them into doing a maneuver that will slow them down.
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I've always been confused by a tone in this game that WE are some how lesser MEN or human beings if OUR stats don't elevate US to some undefined uber ACE level. I guess if I accidently get there the uber ACE's will greet me with a key to the UBER washroom in the UBER vacation home... :rolleyes:
:huh
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ON. They help me with hitting bombers as I tend to take harsh angles on them and open up from farther away. If I'm shooting at a fighter there are only two scenarios:
1: the guy knows I'm there, so tracers won't matter
2: the guy doesn't know I'm there and will be dead before he knows what hit him, so tracers won't matter.
This is my favorite post.
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I've seen several people here saying that tracers confuse them.
How?
Isn't it easier to see exactly where your bulletstream is going?
**This is not an insult, but a genuine question**
Guess I'm like a deer in headlights, I see flashy things and I just have to look. With them off, I tend to focus more on what the plane in front of me is doing, and I take the shot when the time looks good. With them on, sometimes (and just for me), I might waste time trying to walk them into a target, sometimes bleeding more E pulling lead than I normally would in certain situations as I focus more on the tracers. it's all personal preference. I've found hit % doesn't really improve for me with them on or off, so it just becomes a bit of a distraction, for me it doesn't produce better results. Then again, there are times I wonder how I missed a certain shot. Though, tracers on might help me figure this out, the same is true for trying a different solution the next time I'm in that situation. I don't really see either one as having a superior advantage, just what your used to.
Even guys saying they don't really rely soley on their gunsights, still have flown enough to know where to fire, just from memory and doing it 150 bazillion times. If I'm pulling lead, and a bit of an angle, with rudder on and miss, I adjust a bit...same as someone with tracers. More times than not, your not pulling enough lead...again, just my experience.
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On, because I suck.
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On, because I suck.
Doesn't seem to help me either way. I guess I have reached my pinnacle and that seems to be rather low. :cry
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I turned them off recently, and also decided to shun zoom when shooting most of the time, and I think it has helped.
With tracers off, if you put your pipper in front of a crosser, he won't be able to see the stream and jink to avoid flying through it. And in dead six shots, the opponent will be damaged/dead before he knows to begin stick-stirring. :devil
The one case where I find its more trouble to figure the lead with tracers off than on are high-G tracking shots while turning. Here I find myself wasting a good bit of ammo getting it right sometimes.
About zoom: My experience shooting with it off vs. on has led me to suspect that your aim doesn't have to be quite as fine when shooting unzoomed vs. with zoom. I could be wrong here, but sometimes it seems that way.
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The one case where I find its more trouble to figure the lead with tracers off than on are high-G tracking shots while turning.
This brings up an interesting question. These high-G tracking shots tend to be pretty low percentage shots. Do you (or anyone) find that leaving the tracers off helps to discourage you from pulling hard to take these shots? Perhaps forcing you to improve your position before shooting rather then yank hard and hose? Or do you think that you are still attempting the high-G shots, but just don't have the tracers for reference anymore?
I've often thought about shutting the tracers off to try and improve my gunnery by not relying on them and maybe improve my flying by being a bit more patient and getting a better solution. Has anyone had this experience?
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On
Because I like walkin my rounds, or at least a sensing round =)
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Currently on, but often turn them off for a few tours to mix things up a bit. Only reason for having them on is to help clearing squad mate's tails and to make films look better.
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On, just because they were used in real life
ON. They help me with hitting bombers as I tend to take harsh angles on them and open up from farther away. If I'm shooting at a fighter there are only two scenarios:
1: the guy knows I'm there, so tracers won't matter
2: the guy doesn't know I'm there and will be dead before he knows what hit him, so tracers won't matter.
that 2
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This brings up an interesting question. These high-G tracking shots tend to be pretty low percentage shots.
Especially with the view over the nose in some AH airplanes, in-plane tracking shots can be hit easily if you have the turn rate available for enough lead.. But the lead is more variable and harder to calculate than any other kind of shot.
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This brings up an interesting question. These high-G tracking shots tend to be pretty low percentage shots. Do you (or anyone) find that leaving the tracers off helps to discourage you from pulling hard to take these shots? Perhaps forcing you to improve your position before shooting rather then yank hard and hose? Or do you think that you are still attempting the high-G shots, but just don't have the tracers for reference anymore?
I've often thought about shutting the tracers off to try and improve my gunnery by not relying on them and maybe improve my flying by being a bit more patient and getting a better solution. Has anyone had this experience?
As I said earlier I fly tracers off. You may be on to something on the high G shot. Folks who have them on and like to walk them onto target tend to shoot before being in position and pulling hard to walk the tracers on,use more ammo. When they depend on tracers they have no visual on a high G turn. No visual because the tracers are under the nose. When they are trained to use the visual it's akin to poking their eyes out. Again you may be on to something when you brought up folks jerking the stick to put the stream on the target. Jerking the stick can kill E very fast. In some planes it can cause a quick loss of control which would put you in a bad way. Without tracers one would tend to setup for the shot a bit better by smoothly pulling into a lead position before pulling the trigger insuring a better chance of hits.
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This brings up an interesting question. These high-G tracking shots tend to be pretty low percentage shots. Do you (or anyone) find that leaving the tracers off helps to discourage you from pulling hard to take these shots?
When they are trained to use the visual it's akin to poking their eyes out. Again you may be on to something when you brought up folks jerking the stick to put the stream on the target. Jerking the stick can kill E very fast.
I have tracers on and have no trouble hitting blacked out, high G shots. Well I guess it depends what you consider to be a High G shot. Here's a couple of shot films from my two flights tonight. Routine flights for me really... shots are 7 to 9 gs. Each film is a minute or two long.
In this one I lost track of the f6f for a few secs after he goes by me:
http://www.mediafire.com/?cj0jmtzmywm (http://www.mediafire.com/?cj0jmtzmywm)
On this one, there is proof I cannot resist bombers. Also, the 110 had to die because he Ho'd Spad while Spad had a guy on his 6, we were at their base, and they had numbers in the area. The 110 must die!
http://www.mediafire.com/?mnzyn2lwt2q (http://www.mediafire.com/?mnzyn2lwt2q)
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OFF nothing more deadly then wirb without tracers
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OFF nothing more deadly then wirb without tracers
Other people still see WW tracers. Same with osti's. Only the Gv'er has a disadvantage here.
I tried them back on for a while the other night, and found my eyes glued to the tracers...at this point I need to leave em off I think :)
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Look at all the WWII gun cam footage you can find and so far as I have seen they all have one thing in common, they all used tracers. The pilots used the tracers to adjust their aimming point.
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Look at all the WWII gun cam footage you can find and so far as I have seen they all have one thing in common, they all used tracers. The pilots used the tracers to adjust their aimming point.
Not all of them used tracers and I can recall a few gun cams where tracers were not present, only smoke trails.
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Not all of them used tracers and I can recall a few gun cams where tracers were not present, only smoke trails.
My Dad flew P47's and P51's in WWII according to him, they always used tracer ammo, the only thing that changed was the number of tracer rounds to ball rounds. And not every gun had tracer ammo in the belt only the two inboard guns on the P47, not sure about he P51, but not all 6 guns had the tracer ammo in the belt. So perhaps you saw gun cam film taken at the end of a flight or fight and the tracer ammo was exhusted at that point.
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My Dad flew P47's and P51's in WWII according to him, they always used tracer ammo, the only thing that changed was the number of tracer rounds to ball rounds. And not every gun had tracer ammo in the belt only the two inboard guns on the P47, not sure about he P51, but not all 6 guns had the tracer ammo in the belt. So perhaps you saw gun cam film taken at the end of a flight or fight and the tracer ammo was exhusted at that point.
Your Dad's experience does not cover the entirety of WWII
"[The commanding officer] ordered the tracer ammo removed...I'll never forget the spectacular results we got. Our kill rate went up from 50 to 100 percent."
--Colonel Charles W. King, USAAF
5 victories, WWII, as quoted in Fighter Combat by Robert Shaw
I've read a German aerial gunnery manual that speaks of some pilots removing the tracer rounds from their ammo belts as well. So apparently it was done on both sides.
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My Dad flew P47's and P51's in WWII according to him, they always used tracer ammo, the only thing that changed was the number of tracer rounds to ball rounds.
As BnZ said.
I respect his service but his view of the war was a keyhole view; absolutely facinating one that most of us would give much to experience first hand from the safety of our computer chairs, but a limited view none the less.
Tracer ammo wasn't always used.
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On.
Tried both ways and find the surprise factor with them off is minimal. Either the red guy has SA or doesn't. Since I don't pull the trigger in fighter vs fighter engagements at anything more than D-200, having them off doesn't mean jack. I'm already close enough to read his clipboard, and 200 yards was roughly the historical norm for pulling the trigger.
I find that tracers allow me to correct on crazy angle approaches to BUFFS, where I start shooting at D-800 or so. High/low 1:30 seems to be an especially interesting lead for me personally, and I need to walk them in a bit. Standard 3:00/ 9:00 approaches need just a bit of calculation with tracers, as well.