Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Enduro on April 01, 2009, 03:47:47 PM
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Hi. When people fly NOE, would you guys please consider making a/c dots on the map invisible even to countrymen?
I have heard a few different folks - not just in my squad - speak of instances where the fun of a surprise NOE run have been ruined by "spies" who see the dots on radar and transmit info to people in other countries.
Just thought I'd ask. Thank you.
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not a bad idea....... :lol
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Glad ya like it. I hope it happens soon, though. :) Seems necessary these days.
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You can fly as low as you want off-line and no one will bother you.
wrongway
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It would stop people from yelling at me. "Never tell where a misson is going on coutry we have spies" when i say to them good luck.
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True. That is an added benefit -- improved player relations. :)
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I am for this with the caveat that, if someone below dar breaks radio silence, even with text, their dot appears and remains for some short period of time (like a minute or two). This would mimic the necessity to maintain radio silence to keep the mission from being detected by radio direction finders and allow for guys in trouble on the deck to call for help.
Regard,
Hammer
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I am for this with the caveat that, if someone below dar breaks radio silence, even with text, their dot appears and remains for some short period of time (like a minute or two). This would mimic the necessity to maintain radio silence to keep the mission from being detected by radio direction finders and allow for guys in trouble on the deck to call for help.
Regard,
Hammer
Hi, Hammer.
I like your relentless pursuit for realism, but - let's face it - can AH ever really be THAT realistic? This game doesn't have to be so realistic as to force people to quit chatting on long NOE raids. HTC knows that part of the fun is bs'ing with the squad while flying around, and your idea interferes with that.
Still, I think that today's AH community needs the dots removed for NOE runs.
Thanks for your input. <S>
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I am for this with the caveat that, if someone below dar breaks radio silence, even with text, their dot appears and remains for some short period of time (like a minute or two). This would mimic the necessity to maintain radio silence to keep the mission from being detected by radio direction finders and allow for guys in trouble on the deck to call for help.
Regard,
Hammer
I like the realism aspect of this idea. The bad side...I do not think anyone ever shuts up on my squad vox! We would be visible all the time. :uhoh
Have a great day,
Way
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Hi, Hammer.
I like your relentless pursuit for realism, but - let's face it - can AH ever really be THAT realistic? This game doesn't have to be so realistic as to force people to quit chatting on long NOE raids. HTC knows that part of the fun is bs'ing with the squad while flying around, and your idea interferes with that.
Still, I think that today's AH community needs the dots removed for NOE runs.
Thanks for your input. <S>
First, I think my second point is a lot more relevant than the realism aspect. People get vectored in to help a countryman a lot based on voice transmissions. I would submit that a lot more people fighting it out on the deck get help because their dot can be seen (and location identitifed with a vox transmission) than NOE missions get busted because their dots can be seen. Taking that away so a group can get that much closer to a base without a fight seems counter-productive to me.
As for the realism aspect, you are advocating being able to fly low-level without being detected because it is realistic. In reality, though, it only keeps you off radar. The element of not being detected is muti-faceted. Staying off radar was only one part of it. All sides made extensive use of radio intercept as indications of activity. Why should only the part that benefits the attacker be implemented?
If it were up to me, we would use a much more complicated system that relied on many things, including the "loyalty" of an area around a particular base. A quick example would be always showing a dar bar when flying over enemy territory, regardless of altitude, to represent ground reporting of friendly ground troops, civilians, etc. At the same time, there would never be a dar bar over water unless other spotting conditions were met.
I like the realism aspect of this idea. The bad side...I do not think anyone ever shuts up on my squad vox! We would be visible all the time. :uhoh
Have a great day,
Way
It would certainly take discipline. Part of the overall equation of whether a NOE raid is worth it or not!
Regards,
Hammer
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Well, all I'm trying to say is that your ideas are intriguing; however, AH isn't really the place to model the effects of country folk seeing NOE aircraft, evaluating their loyalties and mimicking variables like "will they tell someone or will they not?" If this game ever gets that technical, we'll need 10 cores just to fly in a straight line from point "A" to point "B" -- but, it'd be fun. :D
We hear what you think. Now, I just want the simplicity of my original request to be understood -- removing the dots off the map eliminates the spy variable from the game. HTC can take it from there.
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I am for this with the caveat that, if someone below dar breaks radio silence, even with text, their dot appears and remains for some short period of time (like a minute or two). This would mimic the necessity to maintain radio silence to keep the mission from being detected by radio direction finders and allow for guys in trouble on the deck to call for help.
Regard,
Hammer
well u already get a dar bar no matter what :aok
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Well the logic that if your below dar then neither freindly or enemy dar can see you seems logic enough.
But then following that logic would lead to the setting of arena freindly dar to be totally tower based which we would not like.
If there was an exception then for me it would be for fellow squad members or fellow mission participants.
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If there was an exception then for me it would be for fellow squad members or fellow mission participants.
How about just squad members? They are the trusted few.
I can guarantee a day will come when someone will start complaining that spies are joining missions just to report activities. lol.
(Really...it's a shame we even have to talk about this in the first place. Yet, here we are.)
I like your ideas, guys.
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Perhaps it is a matter of mission size. It is difficult to "hide" a mission of 15, 20, or 40 people. Maybe limit the size of the mission to make it eligible to not be seen by anyone.
I think the "my mission was busted by spiez!!" paranoia is getting a bit out of hand anyway. Most busted missions are found out because someone just happened to be there as your hord passed by. I've spawned into another base in a gv just as ten Bf110s pass overhead going in the direction I've just come from. I've been in missions that have flown over an enemy cv, missions that have run into opposing missions going the other way.
If you are so paranoid that you are being spied upon, don't advertise your missions at all. Tell the people you usually have in your missions, set up a base and time to take off. Make it an intimate affair. Don't announce it over country channel, at all.
The whole point of radar, both ways, is to find the fights and get to them as soon as possible. Not for any offensive or defensive, country strategy but as a function of game play. It sucks to have to fly around forever not finding anything to do. Everyone freaks out when HQ goes down not because they can't find the enemy, unless they are within a base dar, you don't know where they are specifically, but because they can't find "where the action is".
Like I posted somewhere else before, if you want no opposition at all, why are you playing a MMOG? If you are constantly failing to take bases with some opposition then you aren't doing something right, spiez!! or not.
wrongway
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Perhaps it is a matter of mission size. It is difficult to "hide" a mission of 15, 20, or 40 people. Maybe limit the size of the mission to make it eligible to not be seen by anyone.
I think the "my mission was busted by spiez!!" paranoia is getting a bit out of hand anyway. Most busted missions are found out because someone just happened to be there as your hord passed by. I've spawned into another base in a gv just as ten Bf110s pass overhead going in the direction I've just come from. I've been in missions that have flown over an enemy cv, missions that have run into opposing missions going the other way.
If you are so paranoid that you are being spied upon, don't advertise your missions at all. Tell the people you usually have in your missions, set up a base and time to take off. Make it an intimate affair. Don't announce it over country channel, at all.
The whole point of radar, both ways, is to find the fights and get to them as soon as possible. Not for any offensive or defensive, country strategy but as a function of game play. It sucks to have to fly around forever not finding anything to do. Everyone freaks out when HQ goes down not because they can't find the enemy, unless they are within a base dar, you don't know where they are specifically, but because they can't find "where the action is".
Like I posted somewhere else before, if you want no opposition at all, why are you playing a MMOG? If you are constantly failing to take bases with some opposition then you aren't doing something right, spiez!! or not.
wrongway
+1.
Aside from the fact that you can see the horde on the deck, all those little dots, from a LONG way away if you are flying around.
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Perhaps it is a matter of mission size. It is difficult to "hide" a mission of 15, 20, or 40 people. Maybe limit the size of the mission to make it eligible to not be seen by anyone.
I think the "my mission was busted by spiez!!" paranoia is getting a bit out of hand anyway. Most busted missions are found out because someone just happened to be there as your hord passed by. I've spawned into another base in a gv just as ten Bf110s pass overhead going in the direction I've just come from. I've been in missions that have flown over an enemy cv, missions that have run into opposing missions going the other way.
If you are so paranoid that you are being spied upon, don't advertise your missions at all. Tell the people you usually have in your missions, set up a base and time to take off. Make it an intimate affair. Don't announce it over country channel, at all.
The whole point of radar, both ways, is to find the fights and get to them as soon as possible. Not for any offensive or defensive, country strategy but as a function of game play. It sucks to have to fly around forever not finding anything to do. Everyone freaks out when HQ goes down not because they can't find the enemy, unless they are within a base dar, you don't know where they are specifically, but because they can't find "where the action is".
Like I posted somewhere else before, if you want no opposition at all, why are you playing a MMOG? If you are constantly failing to take bases with some opposition then you aren't doing something right, spiez!! or not.
wrongway
I ignored your previous post because it seemed pointless - a random blurb just to get attention, really. And, now your post is so full of assumptions, it's just not worth going into other than we're not proposing all dots be removed from the map; so, don't worry...you'll still find your fights. You'd just have to work a little harder - or be a little luckier - to find the NOE raids regardless of their size.
Thanks.
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Perhaps it is a matter of mission size. It is difficult to "hide" a mission of 15, 20, or 40 people. Maybe limit the size of the mission to make it eligible to not be seen by anyone.
I think the "my mission was busted by spiez!!" paranoia is getting a bit out of hand anyway. Most busted missions are found out because someone just happened to be there as your hord passed by. I've spawned into another base in a gv just as ten Bf110s pass overhead going in the direction I've just come from. I've been in missions that have flown over an enemy cv, missions that have run into opposing missions going the other way.
If you are so paranoid that you are being spied upon, don't advertise your missions at all. Tell the people you usually have in your missions, set up a base and time to take off. Make it an intimate affair. Don't announce it over country channel, at all.
The whole point of radar, both ways, is to find the fights and get to them as soon as possible. Not for any offensive or defensive, country strategy but as a function of game play. It sucks to have to fly around forever not finding anything to do. Everyone freaks out when HQ goes down not because they can't find the enemy, unless they are within a base dar, you don't know where they are specifically, but because they can't find "where the action is".
Like I posted somewhere else before, if you want no opposition at all, why are you playing a MMOG? If you are constantly failing to take bases with some opposition then you aren't doing something right, spiez!! or not.
wrongway
100% concur on finding the fight. All my comments were directed at locating planes below 500'.
Regards,
Hammer
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...You'd just have to work a little harder - or be a little luckier - to find the NOE raids regardless of their size.
It's hard to look at this in any way except "please make it where we can capture a base without any chance of it being defended". There are ways to make NOE viable without making them invisible to anything except blind luck.
Regards,
Hammer
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It's hard to look at this in any way except "please make it where we can capture a base without any chance of it being defended". There are ways to make NOE viable without making them invisible to anything except blind luck.
Regards,
Hammer
I see your concern; however, my original post was not written in the spirit of "give me an easy base capture" at all. The change that I suggested might benefit those who do want an easy capture, but that's not my concern. My concern really is about:
- fairness
- the fun of surprise
Surprise attacks are a legitimate strategy of attack. AH - even AW back in the day - attempts to model surprise attacks; otherwise, we wouldn't even have the 500-foot limit that we have today. The problem is that today's AH community does have people who deliberately ruin the fun of others by sharing information, spying, whatever you want to call it. (I don't remember it being a problem 10 years ago, really.)
My suggestion is an effort to support fairness in gameplay. And, hey...when the NOE raid gets close enough to the target that they start flashing, let the fun begin. There's plenty of time for enema to notice what's going on and scramble to put up the best defense they can in response to a surprise attack.
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I just really don't buy the "spiez!!" excuse. If "spiez!!" are really an issue, doing away with friendly dar cons will not deter them.
Quite frankly, i don't really care one way or the other. I can just think of how it would be more of a detriment than a benefit.
For instance, your base is under attack by a NOE raid. You cannot see if any friendly cons are defending because they are all under 500 feet.
I just don't think getting rid of the dots will make the big difference you think it would.
wrongway
(thank you for the attention)
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+1
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For instance, your base is under attack by a NOE raid. You cannot see if any friendly cons are defending because they are all under 500 feet.
Okay, I hadn't thought of that situation. I can see how that would be a problem.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion rather than just looking for a cheap laugh at my expense.
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Okay, so what if any dot within the radar circle of a base - whether at 2 feet AGL or alt monkey - always appeared on the map? Would that satisfy any problems with not being able to see if a base is being defended while still allowing for no dots on the map for NOE runners?
This would allow the NOE runners a chance to stay undetected while also providing time to the country to scramble its defenses. Sounds fun, really.
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Okay, so what if any dot within the radar circle of a base - whether at 2 feet AGL or alt monkey - always appeared on the map? Would that satisfy any problems with not being able to see if a base is being defended while still allowing for no dots on the map for NOE runners?
This would allow the NOE runners a chance to stay undetected while also providing time to the country to scramble its defenses. Sounds fun, really.
Works for me.
What would be cool, and unworkable, would be if hills and Line of Sight affected base radar coverage. Those bases down in a pit would suffer.
Imagine sneaking into a base NOE behind a hill.
wrongway
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I have to agree. Nothing pisses me off more than to have a perfect NOE run with no Dar-Bar inexplicably run into a whole base of defenders with Wirbels already in position...
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sounds like we have a weeeeeiner. now, i just hope HT or Pyro read the thread. :pray