Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Rap on April 02, 2009, 11:55:47 AM
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I just finished watching Tank Overhaul where they restored an american M-18 Hellcat that was boasted to be the fastest thing on trax in WWII. It had the same gun as the M4 but was much faster and fired a H.E.A.P round. They claimed it to be an instrumental tool in the Battle of the Bulge. Designed specifically for killing tanks in shoot and scoot attacks I think it would be a great addition to the inventory and considering the we won WWII there should be more american flavor on the ground....just a wish. ~<<S>>~
Rap
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oh boy :noid
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:rofl Does anyone notice how all of the requests with off the wall comments seem to come from people with very few posts? Have always wondered if it was the same person with some sort of diabolical scheme going on in their mind. :rolleyes:
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The M-18 would be a great addition to the inventory. :aok
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I'd love to see a Yank TD in the game. The speed of the M-18 would open up a new dimension in the game.
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Not to sure what or who avionix was talking about
:rofl Does anyone notice how all of the requests with off the wall comments seem to come from people with very few posts? Have always wondered if it was the same person with some sort of diabolical scheme going on in their mind. :rolleyes:
I'm not diabolical just a little twisted ;).
Rap.....tr
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Not to sure what or who avionix was talking about I'm not diabolical just a little twisted ;).
Rap.....tr
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Didn't realize it was you man. Very worthwhile post. :D
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From what I recall the M18 was fast because it was LIGHT. It had only 1/2 armor which couldn't stop even some small arms fire. An M16 could take it out with ease. Imagine trying to manuver into any guns range on a more lethal foe and you'll die 5k out.
See, GVs in this game aren't like real life (not in the slightest). In AH it's mostly spawn camping of 1 type or another. In real life you set up a defensive line and shot at bad guys coming to you. Hardly any of this "I can't see hiim against the terrain" crap and the "he's nailing me 5k out through trees!" crap. While an M18 was quite valuable in real life, in AH it would be like stripping all the armor off an M4. That is to say, an exercise in frustration.
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You really think M16s would slay M-18 TDs with "ease"?
Speed is the key. We took a base once with M-8s, M-3s, and M-16s, moving to fast for an effective defense.
The problem isnt the game. Its he players. They upp, motor out a bit, and then sit. Trying to run up camps shooting from 5K out. That or they just plain sit on a spawn for hours stifling gameplay. Some TDs upp with effective guns, and start zipping around at 50 mph flanking these silly spawn camps? It would help game play I believe.
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I dont have the armor stats hanfy, but the M18 Hellcat was not as lightly armored as an M8, but not as heavily armored as the M4A1, so pick your poison.
This subject has been debated time and time again... the M18 would bring a combonation of SIX things that currently do not exist in the game: high speed (45mph+), effective main gun (US 76mm w HVAP/HEAP second only to the 17lb'er and 88mm), low armor (more than M8 less than Pzr), and minimal anti-OBJ capability (it carried minimal HE rounds and no MG other than a single M2 .50 cal on top for a token AA defense), AND it would be vulnerable to air attacks (think of how fragile the T34x turret is vs enemy tanks, now apply that vs air cons).
Oh... and I'd be willing to guess it would have a rate of fire faster than the Pzr IV but less than the M8.
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I dont have the armor stats hanfy, but the M18 Hellcat was not as lightly armored as an M8, but not as heavily armored as the M4A1, so pick your poison.
IIRC it was about a half inch (13mm) all the way around except on the turret front, which was an inch (25mm). The M-8 is roughly 9mm sides and rear and 19mm on the front and turret.
By comparison, the Sherman has front hull armor of 2 inches (51mm), an inch and a half (38mm) on the sides and rear, and 3 inches (76mm) on the turret front.
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Many reports of infantry calling up tank killers (M18s and the like) and the tank crews getting shot up by small arms and defended positions, because the infantry commanders giving the orders didn't know the difference -- they thought a tank was a tank.
They took a lot of losses that way, from what I've heard (heard this from a couple older documentaries and read comments similar to it as well).
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IIRC it was about a half inch (13mm) all the way around except on the turret front, which was an inch (25mm). The M-8 is roughly 9mm sides and rear and 19mm on the front and turret.
By comparison, the Sherman has front hull armor of 2 inches (51mm), an inch and a half (38mm) on the sides and rear, and 3 inches (76mm) on the turret front.
From:http://www.robertsarmory.com/m8.htm (http://www.robertsarmory.com/m8.htm)
The armor is steel plate, 7/8 inches (22mm) thick, on the front of the vehicle and 3/8 inches (9.5mm) thick on the sides, with welded construction. The turret is cast with a thickness of 3/4 inches (19mm).
Not much less armored.
wrongway
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Keep in mind a 50cal from a sniper rifle (same round/casing as from WW2, different gun) can penetrate 2 separate 1/2 in steel plates placed 3 feet from eath other, when the shot is fired from 1 mile away (specifically measured).
In closer? It's got even more punch.
Like I said, M16s could tear through the thing. It was the basic minimal armor to protect the crew, not to stop any rounds from any guns larger than those carried by foot soldiers.
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Look I just wanted some more gv flavor in the game. Hitech modeles things the best they can I guess. And if use the way the allies used them ambush/shoot-n-scoot maybe the M-18 would be a nice breathe of fresh air like the wirble.....but hey I'm just an LTAR :rock gv dweeb that sucks in planes :huh what do I know :salute.
Rap....tr
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that sounds kool
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Huummm... Paper tank with big cannon?
:noid
(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/10/10/tank-made-with-paper_nzchi_1333.jpg)
It be like bringing this into a Tiger/Panzer camped area.
-FYB
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Keep in mind a 50cal from a sniper rifle (same round/casing as from WW2, different gun) can penetrate 2 separate 1/2 in steel plates placed 3 feet from eath other, when the shot is fired from 1 mile away (specifically measured).
In closer? It's got even more punch.
Like I said, M16s could tear through the thing. It was the basic minimal armor to protect the crew, not to stop any rounds from any guns larger than those carried by foot soldiers.
Um... I'll do some digging on those stats (2 separate 1/2 in steel plates placed 3 feet apart), but I'm pretty sure it cant do that from 1 mile out. With a special type of projectile (a step up from the typical FMJ or AP bullet), then perhaps. Also, the .50 cal ammo in WWII is not the same that is being used today. The propellant is different and the bullet is actually 5 gr lighter, meaning that today the .50 cal has a slighly less flash report and slightly higher velocity.
And... the idea of the M18 would not be to charge in and get within punching distance of an enemy tank (or auto/manned ack, or even M16 range), it would be to take on enemy tanks from as far away as possible with a good gun, high rate of fire (for a tank cannon anyways), and high menouverability (shoot-n-scoot).
If the M16 can in fact take out the hull of a M18 from 1600 yards out, then even for M16 (or a wirby) to find the M18, get a bearing on it with its guns, get enough hits on it to do said dmg... isnt easy. Anyone who would bring the M18 in close is just asking for trouble just as you mentioned in a prior post (close infanty support = a destroyed M18).
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Just as a comparison RE: M-18's turret getting knocked out; the only reference i can find off hand for the armor thickness of a Wirblewind's turret is 16mm.
We know how well that holds up in game.
Food for thought.
wrongway
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Well, from what I know, the M-18 Hellcat had 1 inch of armor, but it was slanted enough to make it 2 inches. That's enough to stop a .50 cal and possibly a flacker :rock
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Like an M8 with a 76mm Gun! :O Big Yes! :aok
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Many reports of infantry calling up tank killers (M18s and the like) and the tank crews getting shot up by small arms and defended positions, because the infantry commanders giving the orders didn't know the difference -- they thought a tank was a tank.
They took a lot of losses that way, from what I've heard (heard this from a couple older documentaries and read comments similar to it as well).
They talk about these tanks holding off Tigers at the battle of the buldge..........seems like it would be just fine in a tank battle Well, from what I know, the M-18 Hellcat had 1 inch of armor, but it was slanted enough to make it 2 inches. That's enough to stop a .50 cal and possibly a flacker :rock
ha M2 fires a round longer then an inch, you ever seen what they do in person? They have old tanks sitting at the range at Fort Benning and you dont see many rounds coming off of them
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It is a very good suggestion and it would be an extraordinary addition to Heavy Metal Sunday. This little tank buster would allow for rapid offense as well as defense. It may not be able to stop a Tiger but I believe it could take out any of the other tanks if driven correctly.
+1
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It is a very good suggestion and it would be an extraordinary addition to Heavy Metal Sunday. This little tank buster would allow for rapid offense as well as defense. It may not be able to stop a Tiger but I believe it could take out any of the other tanks if driven correctly.
+1
Ive heard rumors they had one or two of these with every couple of M4s(not the firefly) just for Tigers
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Keep in mind a 50cal from a sniper rifle (same round/casing as from WW2, different gun) can penetrate 2 separate 1/2 in steel plates placed 3 feet from eath other, when the shot is fired from 1 mile away (specifically measured).
In closer? It's got even more punch.
Like I said, M16s could tear through the thing. It was the basic minimal armor to protect the crew, not to stop any rounds from any guns larger than those carried by foot soldiers.
Um... I'll do some digging on those stats (2 separate 1/2 in steel plates placed 3 feet apart), but I'm pretty sure it cant do that from 1 mile out.
The 50 BMG is lucky to bust through 1/2 inch mild steel plate out past a few hundred meters.
Enjoy Krusty....
(http://img59.exs.cx/img59/919/ap19az.jpg)
Note that the angle of impact severely effects the 50 Browning's penetration numbers. Also, look towards the lower left for authenticating these penetration numbers. Upon firing a few rounds at armored plate you would agree with this data. After test firing new tungsten rounds slated for the military I know I do....
<S> Strip
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I'd love to see a Yank TD in the game. The speed of the M-18 would open up a new dimension in the game.
Or what about the M26 Pershing Heavy battle tank? I know it was late in entering the war, but then again so were a few other machines that are in AH2.
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:aok