Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: caldera on April 06, 2009, 09:07:52 PM
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OK, here goes: I would like to see a few changes to facilitate the use of more of the plane set. I'm asking this only because it gets a little stale always seeing Spits, 51Ds, Typhoons and Corsairs much more often than all the other planes. I get shot down by all the planes I meet, so it's not a whine about pwnage. It would be nice to see more people in different birds that are very capable but overlooked for the most competitive ones. Different planes might make for some exciting brawls as their flight characteristics aren't memorized by the whole AH population. Everyone knows what to expect out of a P-51 or a N1K. What about a C-205 or a Yak-9U?
#1. Make all aircraft with a 10 ENY or better get a small perk (relax, like 3 perks for 10 ENY, 4 for P-51 and 5 for 5 ENY). This wouldn't stop the die hard low ENY devotees from flying their faves but might encourage them to mix up their plane selection once in a while. Even noobs can come up with 5 perks in little time. Speaking of which...
#2. All new AH2 players get 1,500 perks in each category to play with. This lets them fly the uber rides for a while so they at least have a chance. Existing customers get their perk categories bumped up to 500 if they are below that number.
#3. As far as ground vehicles, a small perk of 5 on the uberwind wouldn't be out of line. The Ostwind is plenty capable and even the M-16 tears up vulchers on the runway. I was never any good at gvs, but I landed an 8 vulcher-kill sortie in the M-16 when i was a noob. It's not easy mode but it can be done.
#4. For bombers, a perk cost of 10 to take a formation of heavies. Single heavies and other formations remain free.
Let the flaming begin. :uhoh
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I agree.
Especially on planes such as LA7, Spixteen, Niki, and even my beloved Dora or K-4.
I dont agree with giving the Newbies that amount of eprks though. Maybe they should have t owork for those 10 perks to fly that LA 7 by flying older planes. (How it works on CoD) :D
:aok
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The main reason the 51 and Spit are used is because those are easy, deadly and fast aircraft to use. I still say +1, -1, i can't exactly be in want for this wish but neither can i say its truly fair.
Making the heavy bombers perked is a no go. -1
There are tons of people who bomb, and mainly the bombs go off course most of the time, but, I'm not saying they're bad bombers its just the wind and calibration at +20k makes bombing pretty hard.
Forget it, I'll go +2, -2. :D
-FYB
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AH is a business. Perking the aircraft hat make learning tolerable kills the rate at which people are willing to plunk down money after trying it out, and that in turn kills the business.
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Well i agree, eccept for the perk part. I have 700 perks and that is enough for me. Although i do think tha giving a new player 100 perks after the subscribe would be a good marketing ploy. :aok
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Sort of off topic: No, completely off topic:
Add a perk cost to everything. Make the perk cost come into effect as the ENY goes up so you can "pay" to fly those aircraft that would normally become unavailable due to ENY.
Back on topic?:
Add a "bonus" to "unpopular" aircraft for points, etc. There is already an ENY, OBJ, and cost modifier. Mix up the OBJ a bit.
(Probably as big a PITA as ENY)
wrongway
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I say perk everything except EW stuff.. dont give the new players crap.. start with 0, want better ride, LEARN to fly and fight, instead of jumping in a fast cannon bird and Hoing every thing in sight.
oh yea, double the monthly rate.. make up for the losers that cant hack it quitting, and weed out some riffraff.
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Perk all planes with 3 or more cannons. Thats what I would like to see. U then would see more varity in planes. But u will see more drag and bag, picks, ack hugging, etc...
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Perk all planes with 3 or more cannons. Thats what I would like to see. U then would see more varity in planes. But u will see more drag and bag, picks, ack hugging, etc...
How could there be more? Everyone does it.
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Perk all planes with 3 or more cannons. Thats what I would like to see. U then would see more varity in planes. But u will see more drag and bag, picks, ack hugging, etc...
That is an irrational method of perking.
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How bout this. If a muppet can't get more than 5 kills no re-arms TnB leave it unperked.
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That is an irrational method of perking.
This from someone who advocates perking based on whatever the History Channel is hyping enough that all the nooblets want to fly it this week? :D I mean, sure, its a lame idea, its incomplete, it doesn't take into account that 2xHispanos are better than 2 MG/151+2MG/FFs etc, but at least it is a crude attempt to base something on what the a/c can actually do.
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I say perk everything except EW stuff.. dont give the new players crap.. start with 0, want better ride, LEARN to fly and fight, instead of jumping in a fast cannon bird and Hoing every thing in sight.
oh yea, double the monthly rate.. make up for the losers that cant hack it quitting, and weed out some riffraff.
So how do you expect them to like AHII?
You expect them to take a P-40 or something is absolutely no experiences and kill someone who has been flying for a year in spit 16?
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This from someone who advocates perking based on whatever the History Channel is hyping enough that all the nooblets want to fly it this week?
Show me where I have advocated that. I never have and never will. I think your idiotic drive to perk the Spit XVI is blinding you.
If, perchance, you are referring to my comments on the P-51D, those comments are not intended to advocate perking the P-51D, but to show the blatant absurdity of your claims that the Spit XVI is unbalancing.
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AH is a business. Perking the aircraft hat make learning tolerable kills the rate at which people are willing to plunk down money after trying it out, and that in turn kills the business.
That's why you give them the perks up front. How many noobs would love to tool around in the Tiger or Tempest or 262? With this method, they could use up their perks however they wanted. What noob doesn't want the best stuff? And if they didn't want to blow it on 262s and Tigers, they could get more than enough sorties to become familiar with the game. But eventually the perks run out and they have to learn to use more challenging hardware. As it is now, the top four planes comprise what, 20% + of the planeset usage? What if everyone just decides to fly the only the best in order to keep up with the Joneses? It seems to be headed in that direction. Why even implement new planes unless they are mega-uber because they will gather dust bunnies in the hangar? The hangar is like The Island of Misfit Toys. So many cartoon planes that don't get taken out. They're crying. :cry
Here are some examples of the # of sorties each noob can get to use the training wheel stuff:
1500 perks = 375 sorties in a P-51D (@4 perks/sortie)
= 300 sorties in a Spit XVI (@5 perks/sortie)
= 500 sorties in a Typhoon (@3 perks/sortie)
= 150 sorties in a heavy buff formation (@10 perks/formation)
= 300 sorties in a wirble (@5 perks/sortie)
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That's why you give them the perks up front. How many noobs would love to tool around in the Tiger or Tempest or 262? With this method, they could use up their perks however they wanted. What noob doesn't want the best stuff? And if they didn't want to blow it on 262s and Tigers, they could get more than enough sorties to become familiar with the game. But eventually the perks run out and they have to learn to use more challenging hardware. As it is now, the top four planes comprise what, 20% + of the planeset usage? What if everyone just decides to fly the only the best in order to keep up with the Joneses? It seems to be headed in that direction. Why even implement new planes unless they are mega-uber because they will gather dust bunnies in the hangar? The hangar is like The Island of Misfit Toys. So many cartoon planes that don't get taken out. They're crying. :cry
Here are some examples of the # of sorties each noob can get to use the training wheel stuff:
1500 perks = 375 sorties in a P-51D (@4 perks/sortie)
= 300 sorties in a Spit XVI (@5 perks/sortie)
= 500 sorties in a Typhoon (@3 perks/sortie)
= 150 sorties in a heavy buff formation (@10 perks/formation)
= 300 sorties in a wirble (@5 perks/sortie)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1603/plusone.gif)
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There IS variety in high-speed b'n'z aircraft. These are the planes that run 355mph on the deck or better. 51s, D9s, Late 109s, Typhoons, F4Us P-47Ns to a lesser extent...you are liable to run into all of them them on every sortie. History Channel mentality skews this list abit to the 51 of course, but all these models have their strong and weak points inside the b'n'z niche.
There is also some variety in sure-nough, no doubt about it t'n'b aircraft. Any fight low and slow enough for them to be appropriate, you are liable to see A6Ms, HurriIICs, FM2s, Seafires, and the split-personality Corsair will make an appearance again, having dropped flaps and begun to make use of its tiny turn radius. You'll see a SpitV now and again.
The real problem comes in for planes of only moderate maneuverability and only moderate speed(320-360mph OTD), planes that nonetheless could potentially out-run and/or outclimb the Hurris, Zekes, and FM2s etc, and out-turn the Ponies and Doras b'n'z'ing them. For instance, the F6F, P38, P-39s, P-40s, P47Ds, 109G2, 109G6, 190As, Yak-9T, Ki-61, Ki-84, C205, and, oddly enough, the SpitIX. (I'm thinking of deliberate a2a use here, not the lemming-style bomb truck use the Hellcat, Lightning, and Thunderbolt see commonly.)
But unfortunately for these aircraft, the SpitXVI is basically superior as a fighter at typical MA alts, and very common (as we can expect such an excellent a2a fighter to be) Why fly any of the above listed middle-class planes when you can have something that has a better turn rate, and usually turn radius, a nicer gun package, much better E-building properties, rolls alot better, and doesn't have much in the way of quirky dive or handling traits, AND your chief opposition will be said wonderful machine?
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So how do you expect them to like AHII?
You expect them to take a P-40 or something is absolutely no experiences and kill someone who has been flying for a year in spit 16?
No, I expect them to die.. over and over again.. there is no fun to be had in instant success anyway.. the fun is in progress.. advancing in skill and hardware..
there is plenty if churn, plenty of other noobs to fight when you are just starting out.. granted you will get obliterated when you come up against a vet.. but that's how it SHOULD be, that encourages, not discourages.. Improvement and perseverance . sure there will be people who quit immediately after getting shot down over and over on their first day... oh well.. you come into this game thinking day one your are going to stand a chance against people who have been playing for years and know what your are going to do 5 moves before you do.... you are deluded anyway.
instant gratification is the biggest spoiler of real fun, nobody should expect access to the best when they first start, it should be a goal to strive for, something to hone skills and work hard to attain..
think back to early Nintendo.. stage 1 Level 1.. did you start out with the biggest baddest weapon in the game?
effing silver spoon generation :mad:
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Show me where I have advocated that. I never have and never will. I think your idiotic drive to perk the Spit XVI is blinding you.
If, perchance, you are referring to my comments on the P-51D, those comments are not intended to advocate perking the P-51D, but to show the blatant absurdity of your claims that the Spit XVI is unbalancing.
I thought you advocated perking on the basis of use. If I am wrong about that, I guess I deserve that "idiot" remark for getting my BBS posters confused.
No one seems to know what "unbalancing" is, and I frankly don't care. I think if a fighter is superior enough in almost all measurables to a large cross-section of other fighters, that can potentially inhibit the viability of those fighters and reduce variety, and *lightly* perking that one fighter might be of benefit. I think the double-superiority standard makes at least as much sense as the use standard (already discussed, at length), or the K/D standard (Would lead to the P-38J being perked, but not the P-38L. That sound sensible to you?), or date of introduction/rarity standard, which caused the Ta-152 to be perked and *still* causes it to have an absurd low ENY number.
Here is the screwy part: If a vote came up tomorrow about whether or not to perk the SpitXVI, I might have to flip a coin. I would want its perk price to hover around 1-3 points, I certainly would not vote for it to be perked more than 5 points. I also think the XIV needs to have its perk price lowered. I am not a Spitfire hater, nor do I criticize or call names those who choose to use the best tools HTC gives them for free. But the excuses, the reaching for straws, the willingness to do anything besides discuss a2a performance, including iniating rancor with me, all in the service of what...status quo-ism? I can't imagine. This is what annoys me so profoundly.
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#2. All new AH2 players get 1,500 perks in each category to play with. This lets them fly the uber rides for a while so they at least have a chance. Existing customers get their perk categories bumped up to 500 if they are below that number.
Nice idea. +1 :aok
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How can you perk the Wirbelwind! It's no match for a bomb being dropped on it's head, just like every other vehicle I might add. -1
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If HTC would allow me, I'd hand out my perks to anyone who wanted them. 5,000 bomber perks, 6,100 gv perks, 4,000 fighter. 262's are my weakness, there is nothing better than watching cons scatter like cockroaches at sun up.
I have fun accruing them.
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How can you perk the Wirbelwind! It's no match for a bomb being dropped on it's head, just like every other vehicle I might add. -1
Just like no aircraft lifting off the runway is a match for 4 20mm cannons vulching it from 1k away. HTC has perk vehicles for a reason: some vehicles are much better than others. The fastest way to take down a town is with two wirbles. The wirble has relegated the Ostwind to virtual hangar queen status and the M-16 into mothballs. When I see people landing kills in a vehicle, they are usually either the M4 or the WW. Perhaps Lusche could drop in with a usage chart for vehicles. The wirble is easy mode and 5 perks are pretty easy to come by. And as mentioned before, you would get plenty to start with.
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That's why you give them the perks up front. How many noobs would love to tool around in the Tiger or Tempest or 262? With this method, they could use up their perks however they wanted. What noob doesn't want the best stuff? And if they didn't want to blow it on 262s and Tigers, they could get more than enough sorties to become familiar with the game. But eventually the perks run out and they have to learn to use more challenging hardware. As it is now, the top four planes comprise what, 20% + of the planeset usage? What if everyone just decides to fly the only the best in order to keep up with the Joneses? It seems to be headed in that direction. Why even implement new planes unless they are mega-uber because they will gather dust bunnies in the hangar? The hangar is like The Island of Misfit Toys. So many cartoon planes that don't get taken out. They're crying. :cry
Here are some examples of the # of sorties each noob can get to use the training wheel stuff:
1500 perks = 375 sorties in a P-51D (@4 perks/sortie)
= 300 sorties in a Spit XVI (@5 perks/sortie)
= 500 sorties in a Typhoon (@3 perks/sortie)
= 150 sorties in a heavy buff formation (@10 perks/formation)
= 300 sorties in a wirble (@5 perks/sortie)
Then why bother perking them at all? Oh, because the new players are likely to unknowingly blow their perks on Me262s and Tempest Vs, and then wonder why they can only fly P-40Bs.
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Then why bother perking them at all? Oh, because the new players are likely to unknowingly blow their perks on Me262s and Tempest Vs, and then wonder why they can only fly P-40Bs.
no because it adds a penalty for death, instead of being able to up, HO, die over and over and over in a La7. People already stated that they are too impatient crybabys to have any sort of time out for deaths, so this is the other approach.
and if a noob wants to up a 262 and blow all their perks in the first hour.. well that would be a pretty moronic thing to do... oh well.
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And for those that do not fly anything outside the German plane set (except an occasional Macchi) ?
I would like the idea of not seeing so many spixteens, LA's and ponies. Hell, even perk the Dora if you like. I can't see perking any more F4U's, or the 109 K-4. Neither is a very "easy" plane to jump into and use to their full advantage, and most people don't fly the 30mm cannon birds because they can't hit anything, anyhow. If you see someone in either one of them, they are either exceptionally good in them, or terrible.
What about (and I'm just throwing this out there because I am at work, and very bored) making the "easy" mode planes that this thread was started about HARDER to fly according to how "good" you become at the game? That is the simplest way I can put it. There is nothing worse than seeing someone that you know is a good stick, flying a dweeb plane.
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This thread makes me :lol
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This thread makes me :lol
Does your shell shake when you do that?
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oh yea, double the monthly rate.. make up for the losers that cant hack it quitting, and weed out some riffraff.
Bye.
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hehe this is very entertaining.............(http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
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No one seems to know what "unbalancing" is, and I frankly don't care.
You've been given an example of what unbalancing is and shown what unbalancing is not. The fact there is no hard and fast rule is what has you all hot and bothered.
You frankly don't care -- there is the crux of your problem. You only care about your own agenda and don't care to examine the issue from any other standpoint.
As for the OP's idea -- don't like it. Perks being used as a "reward" seems a much better idea to me that simply handing them out to a new player for free. Perking all planes with a 10 ENY and up simply means fewer competitive rides for the new and average players, which as Karnak pointed out can only be detrimental to player retention.
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I think that anoob getting some perks on first payment isn't that bad an idea. But only say 200, not enough for your average 262 but on the way.
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In AW if you bombed the aircraft factory that aircraft became unavailable. Until that factory was rebuilt. Gave the strat targets some meaning. And provided a reason to plan and fly combat air patrols missions around strat targets.
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no because it adds a penalty for death, instead of being able to up, HO, die over and over and over in a La7. People already stated that they are too impatient crybabys to have any sort of time out for deaths, so this is the other approach.
and if a noob wants to up a 262 and blow all their perks in the first hour.. well that would be a pretty moronic thing to do... oh well.
Too much of a death penalty fills the arena with cowards. Unlike reality, there is nothing in AH really forcing people too fight and if the penalty for dieing becomes too steep, then people won't fight except when the odds are massively in their favor by either altitude, numbers or something else.
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The fact there is no hard and fast rule is what has you all hot and bothered.
It would get any remotely thinking person hot and bothered.
Let us say tomorrow the regime in whatever country you live in declares you "vzornqed" and you have to pay more taxes. Now they can't tell you exactly what "vzornqed" is, and it doesn't seem to correlate well with your income, criminal record, carbon footprint, tobacco usage, height, weight, or Dylan album ownership. But be assured you are definitely "vzornqed", ya just gotta trust 'em on this one. It's for the best. :devil
I'm hardly ashamed to admit that I don't care about something that seems arbitrary and undefinable.
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It would get any remotely thinking person hot and bothered.
Let us say tomorrow the regime in whatever country you live in declares you "vzornqed" and you have to pay more taxes. Now they can't tell you exactly what "vzornqed" is, and it doesn't seem to correlate well with your income, criminal record, carbon footprint, tobacco usage, height, weight, or Dylan album ownership. But be assured you are definitely "vzornqed", ya just gotta trust 'em on this one. It's for the best. :devil
I'm hardly ashamed to admit that I don't care about something that seems arbitrary and undefinable.
What is the hard and fast rule that defines love?
What is the hard and fast rule that defines beauty?
What is the hard and fast rule that defines ugliness?
What is the hard and fast rule that defines what would be a "fair trade" for someone's most prized possession?
What is the hard and fast rule that defines "right"?
What is the hard and fast rule that defines "wrong"?
etc. etc. etc.
You must lead a very bothered existence if you do not like anything that can not be put in a box. There are many things in life that are both relative and not definable by "objective criteria."
The key term there is relative. You can not define by a set number what "unbalanced" would be in the arenas because it necessarily depends on what is going on with the rest of the plane set.
Slapshot already gave you a definition of what unbalancing is. You can continue to pretend it isn't sufficient, but it was accurate.
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What if we only enabled Spit1's at all the bases?
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Ha, the great problems of the human condition now? I still think that for a *game* a consistent definition could be arrived at. :P
The key term there is relative. You can not define by a set number what "unbalanced" would be in the arenas because it necessarily depends on what is going on with the rest of the plane set.
You could easily define unbalancing by a set number, usage for instance. However, the only benchmark I've ever heard for "too much" usage was 20%. We have no indication whether or not most of the currently perked planes would draw 20% usage under today's MA conditions, because the proposition has not been tested. It is not even certain the C-Hog would today draw 20% if unperked.
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You've been given an example of what unbalancing is and shown what unbalancing is not. The fact there is no hard and fast rule is what has you all hot and bothered.
An example of "unbalancing" is not an explanation of the term, nor does it count as knowing what the term means. If you say that the term has no definition then you have no right to the term yourself.
Again, we sound like we're in a Socratic dialogue, even more so because the student always gets tired of Socrates and tells him to piss off when he insists on a definition and not a mere example. :P
I understand your point about a lot of human language not having exact definitions, and I agree with it. But "unbalancing" is a term that should have definition, much like "mass," "momentum" and other scientific terms, because they are all artificial. We have explicitly created them for a specific purpose; they did not arise out of the natural history of our species.
Slapshot already gave you a definition of what unbalancing is. You can continue to pretend it isn't sufficient, but it was accurate.
Slapshot is on record as admitting that the SpitI could possibly be perked according to his definition, so I cannot accept it as viable.
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Slapshot is on record as admitting that the SpitI could possibly be perked according to his definition, so I cannot accept it as viable.
Then the problem is yours, not his. You "cannot accept" anything that does not fit your agenda.
Why don't you boys give HTC a call and ask them to give you their set criteria for what is unbalancing, and then demand that they remove the term from the help pages if they can't. Let us all know how that works out for you.
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Then the problem is yours, not his. You "cannot accept" anything that does not fit your agenda.
My agenda is that a good definition of "unbalancing" should never allow for the Spit I to be perked? Ok, I admit that, and I'm proud of it.
Come on, you can do better.
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My agenda is that a good definition of "unbalancing" should never allow for the Spit I to be perked? Ok, I admit that, and I'm proud of it.
Come on, you can do better.
No, I am not going to bother to say anything more. I just did a search for Slapshot's exact definition and realized you two have been on this merry-go-round for MONTHS. You are either just enjoying the attention, too blinded by your own agenda, or too dense to comprehend.
Just not worth my time anymore.
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The only perks that I think should be given away is when someone first subscribes and that should only be 50-100 in each category. Everyone else would have to earn their perks.
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i agree with any system that reduces the number of spit 16s, P-51s and other "uber" planes and that encourages greater use of the other planes.....just my opinion. :salute
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This entire thread is a whine about pwnage. :rofl
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Why must there be such insistence on what other's fly?
Let's make flying a SpitXVI a requirement for the first month instead.
:lol
I think everyone should be required to fly lower than me. I don't like being at a disadvantage. They should fly slow and make nice, gentle turns in front of me too.
:cry
wrongway
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Why must there be such insistence on what other's fly?
Let's make flying a SpitXVI a requirement for the first month instead.
:lol
I think everyone should be required to fly lower than me. I don't like being at a disadvantage. They should fly slow and make nice, gentle turns in front of me too.
:cry
wrongway
There is no insistence of anything, Negative Nancy. This is The Wishlist and I have posted a wish that I think will slightly reduce the chances of fighting against the same planes in every sortie. You are welcome to disagree, but at least come up with real reasons as to why this idea is so bad.
This entire thread is a whine about pwnage.
You came all the way down off your perch just for that? :rofl
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i agree with any system that reduces the number of spit 16s, P-51s and other "uber" planes and that encourages greater use of the other planes.....just my opinion. :salute
I suggest the following experiment:
Go into the DA and fight a dozen or so matches against an equal stick in a 109 G-2, an airplane in service in 1942, in your Late-War Uber PonyD. Try every ACM strategy, angles fighting, energy fighting, whatever you can think of. Note the results. THEN see if you still want to talk about what an uber plane the P-51 is.
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Oh my god, that is perhaps the WORST list I've seen in forever!!!!
"Give newbies 1,500 perks for everything!?" Are you drun- crazy?!? Y'all be flying on a nice day, no enemy fighters in sight, next thing you know you're getting picked by a thousand newbs in 262s and Tempests.
"Perk the uberwid" No way
"10 perks for a set of heavies" That's waaaaay out of line.
Heck if you made these changes, I'm sure the Aces High population would decrease quite steeply.
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Hater. :noid
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How bout this. If a muppet can't get more than 5 kills no re-arms TnB leave it unperked.
Stats-wise, just treat every re-arm as a new sortie. If re-arm = true etc.
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Instead of fulfilling your wish why dont you just go to early/mid war arenas? Problem solved!
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I like idea #1, I don't like #4.
And why is it that everytime someone comes up with a wish that someone else doesn't like, they have to threaten them with "this will cause people to leave AH. AH would loose money" I understand if you think that, but this is a wishlist. Most of what gets put on here will never be in the game anyway. So why flame folks for wanting to discuss what they think they want to see.
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Yes, and others should be able to express how they feel about the idea too.
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What if we only enabled Spit1's at all the bases?
That's darn near a WW1 game... I suport it! :aok
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That's darn near a WW1 game... I suport it! :aok
there would be screams of perk the val
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no more perks ? get a new account.