Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: A8TOOL on April 08, 2009, 09:10:30 PM
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Some say there are no dweeb planes only dweeb pilots.. I 1/2 agree.
I don't know how they trained them in Germany but here in game, the very first time you take one up you can only find one use for them.
These planes attract a certain type of sim pilot as well. Probably the best analogy would be that mean dog that snarls and growls at you as you pass by but as soon as you jump on his side of the fence he runs away scared and yapping.
They all have the same moves too.
A: Climb high, look for someone who's engauged, dive down and pick them. If you miss, climb back up and try it again.
B. If someone spots you and your higher than him, turn in for the HO. If you miss, extend away and find someone else to P off.
C: If interrupted while climbing, run for the deck and try to find a place you can climb in peace.
190 rules of engagement: Use every dirty trick you can to avoid a fight with another plane even if it's the same type. Climb high, Ho every passer by, dive to deck when ever trouble comes your way.
Always be on the look out for enemy fighters already engauged.
(If you get him don't forget to laugh on the way up and give yourself a good pat on the back)
When in trouble, dive for deck and don't look back. There are plenty of other people with less SA.
If in real trouble, use your roll rate to flop around the sky like a fish and hope he passes you by. If he does, bite him in the back and then continue running like mad.
190 pilots: Try not to forget your a man. Keep your fights as short as possible, your pants as dry as possible and your screaming to a minimum. Most of all, Never ever pass up a good Ho shot.
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190D's are really good Stall fighters low and slow with Spits.
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Seems you've never found someone who is actually good in a 190. Most of those you will find only fly the A5.
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Seems you've never found someone who is actually good in a 190. Most of those you will find only fly the A5.
Try Moot's 152.
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Why do threads like this get posted? They serve no real purpose and are meant to instigate rather than be constructive.
@ A8Tool- please install a spell checker in to your browser.
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Seems you've never found someone who is actually good in a 190. Most of those you will find only fly the A5.
I do get scared when I see an A5 but I been flying the Dora alil bit getting like 4-5 kills a sortie and you really can control a furball with one. Unless there is a con alot higher then you your gunna be able to outclimb most of the planes that are close to your speed, once you get them worked down lower then its shooting fish in a barrel. If someone does gets some E on me Ill rope them up then turn to make them flip themself over I love seeing people waist E upside down trying to make a 600+ shot.
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I do get scared when I see an A5
You should be. Every should be. :cool:
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GO 190!!!!!!!!
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You should be. Every should be. :cool:
But you see...I get scared too...but not if a certain...Blitzin is flying it. :P
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But you see...I get scared too...but not if a certain...Blitzin is flying it. :P
Coming from Mr. I want to bomb my Tiger with a Ar234. :furious :furious
:D
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:lol
I give it a 9. Not very original and not so well written, but very good timing.
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Also, i would like to add to this thread. It's not the plane, it's the pilot. The pilot does everything to make the plane perform the way you described above. If you run into a experienced Fw190 pilot, you'll know soon enough once he starts doing the magical pitchbacks and barrel rolls and shoots ya down. :D
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Coming from Mr. I want to bomb my Tiger with a Ar234. :furious :furious
:D
Hey Mr I got pwned by a 234. ;)
If you've ever tried GV bombing in it though, it IS fun. :P
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that's a lie=/ it's a lot ot do w/ the plane too. Two good pilot, one in spit one in 190. THey're otd doing 150knts rolling, I'm pretty sure spit would whoop the 190 almost everytime. I spent a lot of time in the 190 in this situation, and still get whoop by novice spit pilots =)
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that's a lie=/ it's a lot ot do w/ the plane too. Two good pilot, one in spit one in 190. THey're otd doing 150knts rolling, I'm pretty sure spit would whoop the 190 almost everytime. I spent a lot of time in the 190 in this situation, and still get whoop by novice spit pilots =)
A5- Solution for all spitfires. :)
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GO 190!!!!!!!!
You still deployed Yenny?
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TOOL:
The same could be said for Spit 16s, La7s, P-51s, P-38s, F4Us, blah, blah, blah :lol
It all depends on the pilot :cool:
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I take offense. I am not good, but I'll fight anyone in my 190.
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I take offense. I am not good, but I'll fight anyone in my 190.
That goes for me also. I'll take on anything in my A5.
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Seems you've never found someone who is actually good in a 190. Most of those you will find only fly the A5.
And the percentage would be?
Take out of the equation of guys like Moot and you have 95% that do exactly what I've said.
As far as timing goes with the thread.. I would have posted it 2 years ago and is still valid today.
Many 51 pilots fly it as if it was a 190 now a days it seems so there are many pick ho-tards i can complain about if I wanted. Play the game the way you want but realize those who have been here awhile have respect for some and none for others.
And BTW, I don't use spwell checjk. I have fat fingers and don't care what 7ya think as far as spelling. Get over it..no ones perfect with or w/o spell chack
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Take offense if ya like but has nothing to do with the people who use it differently. You know where I'm going with this and exactly what I brought up.
Fake smile
(http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:PfMtjrFOFSW1FM::www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/mka0029l.jpg)
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You still deployed Yenny?
Nah I'm doing aobc down at fort knox.
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Someone got pwned.
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A5- Solution for all spitfires. :)
I've gone low and slow w/ every 190 except the 152 because I just really hate it =). It just most of the fight ends some what w/ me getting my arse kick. It would last about up to 5-10 min 190 v. spit, but eventually the spit would slowly get its rounds on me =)
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Wrong.
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They all have the same moves too.
A: Climb high, look for someone who's engauged, dive down and pick them. If you miss, climb back up and try it again.
B. If someone spots you and your higher than him, turn in for the HO. If you miss, extend away and find someone else to P off.
C: If interrupted while climbing, run for the deck and try to find a place you can climb in peace.
sounds like these dweebs figured out how to survive to fight another day. i personally like the teleport to the tower every 10 minutes.
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So far, I've only flown in the DA (not good enough for the MA yet!). I fly the 190 a lot and find it funny because what you are describing is what I see the Mustang and Typhoon pilots doing. Yes, I'll take a HO shot now and again because, at least in the DA, if you don't most of the others will and your done. I usually dive in BnZ style once or twice and then try to mix it up with all you "turners" out there and I have the scars to prove it! I would like to eventually get enough skills to be competitive low and slow as well. You all do need to understand that just as you use your aircrafts strong points (ie: sharp turns, good E recovery, etc.) we need to play to the strength of our bird as well. So yeah, if I have good speed or the fastest roll rate in the game I'd be an idiot not to use them. Don't all cry for more aircraft in the game and then want people to not fly them because they handle different from your bird and therefor do not play to your desires. I don't complain when you Spit and F4u pilots sit behind me 5 deep trailing me all over the sky while I try rolling out from a hailstorm of .50 and 20mm shells. I could complain too but hey, all's fare in love and war and...I just don't know you well enough yet.
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I don't know how they trained them in Germany but here in game, the very first time you take one up you can only find one use for them.
...
A: Climb high, look for someone who's engauged, dive down and pick them. If you miss, climb back up and try it again.
B. If someone spots you and your higher than him, turn in for the HO. If you miss, extend away and find someone else to P off.
C: If interrupted while climbing, run for the deck and try to find a place you can climb in peace.
yup, add buff hunting and ground attack and thats pretty much how they should be used. their AH usage is pretty historical as far as I can tell :)
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First of all....most aircraft were designed except for very few To E fight.
Example. The US did not design the F6F hell cat or F4U, or F4F to turn fight with the Japanese Zero or Oscar.
The same withthe P38. They were given speed, firepower and durability. Couldn't climb with a Zeke or an Oscar.
In the ETO the USAF had the P38, P47 and later the P51. They were not designed to stall fight or turn fight at 500 feet.
They were designed to fly just a bit higher to escort Bombers.
Now....the aircraft in question the FW190. It wasn't designed to turn fight either. It was designed to counter the SpitV.
It was designed to be fast, roll well, dive fast and be durable. It was used to BnZ bombers and mix it up at escort altitude
with the Allies escort fighters. The 190 was given heavy firepower for attacking bombers and the escort that got in the way.
This post has nothing to do with the History of the aircraft and on its' original use.
This is a reflection of gameplay and of cartoon aircraft in the game.
Since there are actually simmers playing this game if in a 190 I would use the attributes of my aircraft against any
deficiency of the opposing aircraft. Fight my fight and not fight into the others strengths. The idea is to win the fight.
There are also players in game that wish you to turnfight them because they are in a superior turning and climbing aircraft.
They will bait you etc. and maybe even call your integrity into question.
So if you up in a Zero,Spitfire etc don't get angry if you see a 190 around contolling the fight with Energy.
That is what the 190 was designed for....not to play the game your way because you are in a slower turnfighter. :aok
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sounds like these dweebs figured out how to survive to fight another day. i personally like the teleport to the tower every 10 minutes.
That would only be true if they would fight in their 190's instead of running away. I have ran into some 190s that will fight, but most will run b/c they are to afraid to lose their cartoon plane. I agree with tools about 95% will either ho then run when they miss or try to pick and run when they miss.
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Some say there are no dweeb planes only dweeb pilots.. I 1/2 agree.
I don't know how they trained them in Germany but here in game, the very first time you take one up you can only find one use for them.
These planes attract a certain type of sim pilot as well. Probably the best analogy would be that mean dog that snarls and growls at you as you pass by but as soon as you jump on his side of the fence he runs away scared and yapping.
They all have the same moves too.
A: Climb high, look for someone who's engauged, dive down and pick them. If you miss, climb back up and try it again.
B. If someone spots you and your higher than him, turn in for the HO. If you miss, extend away and find someone else to P off.
C: If interrupted while climbing, run for the deck and try to find a place you can climb in peace.
190 rules of engagement: Use every dirty trick you can to avoid a fight with another plane even if it's the same type. Climb high, Ho every passer by, dive to deck when ever trouble comes your way.
Always be on the look out for enemy fighters already engauged.
(If you get him don't forget to laugh on the way up and give yourself a good pat on the back)
When in trouble, dive for deck and don't look back. There are plenty of other people with less SA.
If in real trouble, use your roll rate to flop around the sky like a fish and hope he passes you by. If he does, bite him in the back and then continue running like mad.
190 pilots: Try not to forget your a man. Keep your fights as short as possible, your pants as dry as possible and your screaming to a minimum. Most of all, Never ever pass up a good Ho shot.
lol
some pointed correctly about, its not the 190, its also pony, typhoon, jug and others. So you have to complain all E fighter Pilots here, because you like to have them all as low turnfighters. furballing, nothing else. i call it mudcrawling :lol
well, just as a hint, this game is called Aces High and not mudcrawlers low. think about a little and maybe you find out a secret behind it ;)
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That would only be true if they would fight in their 190's instead of running away. I have ran into some 190s that will fight, but most will run b/c they are to afraid to lose their cartoon plane. I agree with tools about 95% will either ho then run when they miss or try to pick and run when they miss.
Same here, I very seldom ever run into a good 190 stick, "most" come in with massive altitude and look for the pick. And as soon as they lose there altitude advantage they start looking for the exit. So I would have to agree with tools and LC on this one, I just think that a lot of players think that this is the only way to fly the 190's. And really I don't blame them because I can't fly a 190 to save my life, well I can't hit nothing with the guns, I find it one of the worse gun platforms in the game IMO.
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Nah I'm doing aobc down at fort knox.
Yea i overheard a knight saying you were deployed or something :salute
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Seems you've never found someone who is actually good in a 190. Most of those you will find only fly the A5.
+1
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After almost 22 months in game I have realized that most develop a certain style of flying after getting through that initial learning curve of the game. A 190's strengths may just play to someone's preferred flying style. I will fly a 190 on accasion, but it is just not my bag.
Have a great day,
Way
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Where's zazen?
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I feel the 190 is a very pointless ride, they are nothing but an annoyance to my Spitfire.
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A8TOOL,
I'd be very interested to hear what planes you fly :)
If you are in a better turning fighter against those 190:s, why would they try to turn with u?
Who is "the one who HO:s"? The one who points his guns at the enemy first or last? If you say "last", then the pilots in worse turning planes are always in your mind HOers.
Please, go fly a 190 yourself and come back to report how it should be flown in a manly way
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I hope to shoot you down soon because, well, sir you are a tool.
190 pilot :)
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190s are usually no big deal to kill. The folks who fly them the way you describe are usually pretty easy to defeat.
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I feel the 190 is a very pointless ride, they are nothing but an annoyance to my Spitfire.
:rofl
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I've seen people fight in them....but the majority I see fly very timid...anything co-alt, even another 190, and they run like hell....most I see are manuvering to cherry pick planes that are already fighting, rather than looking to learn how to fight in one....I'm not saying you have to get low and slow against a hurri to fly it aggressive, but most are 180degrees from that...completely timid...cowardly...and a waste of time to even think about trying to get them to commit to a fight. Usually I just let them attempt a pick a couple of times until they run low on E and just hit the deck and bug out...which is what I see from them 99% of the time.
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<-----Has got to get his old PC out and convert old AHI films into something viewable by the AH2 viewers.
There is nothing more satisfying than knife fighting in a phone booth with a FW (vs 1 or 5) and coming out on top listening to all the shock and awe :D
<-----Really likes these kinds of posts too, cause it just goes to prove the FW still has the element of surprise.
<-----Also wishes he could be in the cockpits of the adversaries when after the 2nd or 3rd turn my FW has a guns solution on 'em :D
<Falls, err steps down of his soap box>
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Yeah I hate 190s... I usually try to pick them first if possible.
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I find it one of the worse gun platforms in the game IMO.
:rofl
You have to aim entirely different in a 190 than in, say, an American 50 Cal bird, but once you learn how to do it you really can't miss.
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As far as E-Fighting w/ BnZing vs. TnB'ing is concerned. I can say as someone who learned to play TnB'ing first, then evolved to be an E fighting specialist a few years later, it's really not more difficult to get kills per se one way or the other, but it is harder to be as efficient a killer BnZ'ing. The way you have to get kills is quite different from the perspective of pace and initiative fighting vs. reactionary fighting. It's much harder to kill quickly E fighting, because you are generally in a plane that has the only real defense, if in a bad situation, to disengage completely. A TnBer can stay defensive with a chance of turning the tables to regain the offensive much more readily just by sheer maneuverability without having to disengage at all, especially if his opponent(s) are less maneuverable.
Without the E advantage an E fighter really cannot shake an equally skilled pilot in a more maneuverable plane on his six. The reverse is not true however, a more maneuverable plane can shake or avoid a less maneuverable E fighter indefinitely, fairly easily, even if less skilled. So, there's really a lot less margin for error E fighting, there's no failsafe if you have your E advantage negated, you're pretty much toast.
What makes a good BnZ'er is timing. Timing and aim is everything. Everything is much faster paced at or near the point of engagement BnZng as opposed to TnB'ing. It's quite difficult in a lot of situations to be at the exact right 3 dimensional space at the exact right time with closure rates potentially as high as 1,000 mph on a maneuvering opponent, especially if he's aware of you. Then to get the timing right, get the shot off, make it count and do all that without negating your E advantage on that adversary, if not destroyed, or others nearby is often quite tricky. While not to belittle TnB'ing, I wouldn't necessarily call flinging a Spit16 around, latching onto someone's six and hammering away quite the same degree of difficulty, especially if the adversary is of inferior skill or not in one of the 3 or 4 more maneuverable planes in the game.
As someone alluded to, may have been AKAK. BnZing is pure aggression, if you have the advantage you should be attacking or at least poised in a coiled position to pounce at the first attractive opportunity and press the advantage until you no longer have one or he is destroyed. What people see is a lot of people BnZing who really don't understand how to exploit the initiative of a fast plane in an advantageous energy state. What they don't consider is those folks, while they may be a pest, are almost invariably sporting a paltry 1 or 2 kills an hour. It is nearly impossible to BnZ or just E fight in general without an aggressive spirit and maintain anything that could be considered reasonable killing efficiency.
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You guys crack me up. All planes have their strength and weaknesses. Some are fast, some are agile. Some (F4U's and 190's come to mind) manage to do a pretty good job at both. I hear the same groaning about Spit dweebs, Lala dweebs, "RunStangs", and on and on ad naseum. Same old tired nonsense.
When you up your ride of choice, do you fly to utilize it's strengths, or do you play the other guy's game for fear of looking "unmanly"? Unless you're like m00t or Grizz, and can somehow make the 190 turn on a dime (I think they cheat ;)), that's not manliness, it's boneheaded stupidity. The 190's have just a couple of strengths, at the expense of being hamstrung in just about every other category. Sure 190 pilots pick (News Flash: We all do), because the 190's (especially the Dora) are good at it. I don't begrudge them for it. If I get picked it's my fault for poor SA.
Here's an idea. Instead of grumbling about how the other guy flies, how about you take up "his ride" (190 in this case) and fly it the way you're used to flying your usual steed. Go ahead and Yank n' Bank with Spits and Niki's for a day or two. Drop flaps at treetop level and show that 38 driver how a "real" pilot flies. After a day or two of eating the pavement maybe you'll have an epiphany and realize the "other" guy may just know what his plane can (or can't) do, and is flying it accordingly.
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So far, I've only flown in the DA (not good enough for the MA yet!). I fly the 190 a lot and find it funny because what you are describing is what I see the Mustang and Typhoon pilots doing. Yes, I'll take a HO shot now and again because, at least in the DA, if you don't most of the others will and your done. I usually dive in BnZ style once or twice and then try to mix it up with all you "turners" out there and I have the scars to prove it! I would like to eventually get enough skills to be competitive low and slow as well. You all do need to understand that just as you use your aircrafts strong points (ie: sharp turns, good E recovery, etc.) we need to play to the strength of our bird as well. So yeah, if I have good speed or the fastest roll rate in the game I'd be an idiot not to use them. Don't all cry for more aircraft in the game and then want people to not fly them because they handle different from your bird and therefor do not play to your desires. I don't complain when you Spit and F4u pilots sit behind me 5 deep trailing me all over the sky while I try rolling out from a hailstorm of .50 and 20mm shells. I could complain too but hey, all's fare in love and war and...I just don't know you well enough yet.
Very good post by the new guy :aok...somebody should pick him up.
I fly 8's, 9's F6, F4's, Fm2, both Ki's, and a few others from time to time. If it carries ord I'm in it and have had some fun with the 12 rocket 190-f8 . The A5 has got to be my favorite 190 because it fits my style of fighting more closely. I also enjoy the 152 when I take it up, thats a fun plane but I don't take any of them up on a regular basis.
The problem with the majority of 190 simmers is they all fly it the same way and the main reason for my complaint. I know exactly what to expect out of them. They are a a nuisance most of the time and annoy me. The few that fly them differently always shock the heck out of me and I'm usually quick to commend them on 200... whether they got me or I got them. There are a few good ones and don't expect any of them to turn with me.
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Here's an idea. Instead of grumbling about how the other guy flies, how about you take up "his ride" (190 in this case) and fly it the way you're used to flying your usual steed.
:lol And then please post film, because...well...laughter is good. :aok
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A8Tool it wasnt so long ago I saw you doing the same thing you are complaining about but I also think its a natural pathway of progression as you learn a new ride. Climb up where its safe and then dive down with enough E to allow for an escape if you need it while slowly learning how the plane handles by engaging busy cons with enough friendlies around to help out if you need it.
Unfortunately this is also where a lot of team work complaints come out. The more eyes there are in one area and the newer pilots that there are the less people there are that are actually looking around. It was the same way in WWII.
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I fly 8's, 9's F6, F4's, Fm2, both Ki's,
So you fly some of the best turning aircraft in game, and then you wonder why people won't turn with you? Particularly 190's, which are perhaps the worst turning aircraft in the game?
Really, I don't understand the whole aversion to BnZ. Not just from the person who's flying BnZ's perspective, but from the person who's fighting against him. I really enjoy trying to equalize E-States with that high Dora or Pony or whatever. It really is pretty fun. Helps you're gunnery as well, I think, looking for those weird fleeting shots.
Flying the 190 in BnZ in a ... 'target rich environment' is really more challenging than turnfighting on the deck I think. Staying aggressive enough to get some kills before you run out of gas while at the same time staying conservative enough to get out, balancing on that line is really fun and challenging.
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:lol And then please post film, because...well...laughter is good. :aok
Where are my manners? Add Stampf to the Pantheon of Uber 190 pilots who simply must be cheating. :D :salute
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Flying the 190 in BnZ in a ... 'target rich environment' is really more challenging than turnfighting on the deck I think. Staying aggressive enough to get some kills before you run out of gas while at the same time staying conservative enough to get out, balancing on that line is really fun and challenging.
Indeed, and with friends it becomes very fun, working tactics and teamwork, which is afterall what the 190 series excels at. For the 190 pilot, the fight is about the game, the manuevering, retension of A/C strength and the setting up of the advantage. When the enemy is in the sights, the fight is over.
Where are my manners? Add Stampf to the Pantheon of Uber 190 pilots who simply must be cheating. :D :salute
Heck no, but at least you are keeping this thread funny. Plenty of guys in my own unit can whoop me like a two week-er. Experienced in it? yeah, getting there I suppose. Uber? no, not yet, sadly. Do well because we stick to what works. Certainly love the plane though and enjoy utilizing it strength's, and dealing with it's weaknesses. Paired up with 109's in a mixed wing, and it really shines.
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When I first started fighter flight Sims, (Pacific Strike) it was me verses the AI. As with most games I began seeing the pattern in the AI's tactics. I took complete advantage of that knowledge and saw myself become a "Great stick". Of course I was not a great stick, in fact using the pattern in the AI to my advantage stalled my learning with regard to becoming an all round good Sim pilot in combat games. Some years ago I discovered AHII and have been devoted to the "Game" ever since. I take no offense to any tactic used by any other player in this game. If I get picked, hoed, camped, ganged, rammed, whatever that is on me not the other player. I fly yak T's and U,s, Ki84's and 190f,s. I do lots of gving. I always engage an enemy because that is the object of the game. I have no idea what my score is and don't care. The engagement that comes to mind when I think of "enjoying the game" was a 10 min. 1v1 with a p40E. I was in a 9t. That p40 pilot was a super pilot and was using the few good points a p40 has to perfection. We fought in a deep valley so extend and climb was not a really option. In the end I ran out of gas and only had 6 taters left. I dropped my flaps and landing gear and landed on the valley floor, waiting for the coup de boom. All I got was a "GF Yak" on 200 and the p40 flew off. More Fights like that would be wonderful cause they teach you to be a better game player. My point is a great pilot can have a great game in any plane cause it really is all about the pilot. For me there are still enough great players in this game to make it a fun evening.
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I take offense. I am not good, but I'll fight anyone in my 190.
Actually I have gravitated to the a8, it is great for porking radars when they are up and I am bored. If i die in it the spitty dude doesn't get that many points
and when i manage to get three before landing, I feel like I have actually accomplished something. I do fly it high and fast, that is the way to use it. Most kills in
acm where high to low, within 200 feet and a total surprise.
For you 190 haters... If one gets bounced in a 190 and gets killed, their SA was a bit sloppy. If one is paying attention, they are simple to avoid and take down unless they run, then just let em go and find another. IMHO
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It started with the LA-7 being the ultimate Dweeb ride. Then I see the Spitfire was declared as a Dweeb fighter. Now we're picking on the FW-190? Where will it end? Is the Hurricane next? It's very Dweeby to complain about Dweebs.
Victims of FW-190 attack Group Meetings every third Wed in the DA. :noid
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For the average 190 pilot I completely agree with what you posted A8TOOL. I laughed a little bit thinking about my own experiences.
As others have said however, it really does come down to the pilot. "Good" 190 pilots are just few and far between.
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I regularly take out a 190a8, not an a5, low and slow against the horde of spits, f4us and the like from cvs.
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Indeed, and with friends it becomes very fun, working tactics and teamwork, which is afterall what the 190 series excels at. For the 190 pilot, the fight is about the game, the manuevering, retension of A/C strength and the setting up of the advantage. When the enemy is in the sights, the fight is over.
Heck no, but at least you are keeping this thread funny. Plenty of guys in my own unit can whoop me like a two week-er. Experienced in it? yeah, getting there I suppose. Uber? no, not yet, sadly. Do well because we stick to what works. Certainly love the plane though and enjoy utilizing it strength's, and dealing with it's weaknesses. Paired up with 109's in a mixed wing, and it really shines.
We learn from you kommandant. :P
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Chennault and the AVG would have understood the 190 driver,the Japanese called his P40 drivers cherry pickers because they did not engage their Oscars and Zekes in Dog fights.WTG Claire. :aok
The only people whining about 190's are it's victims,the target fixated and the stupid. ;)
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Only thing I got on the Dora is when hes got 5-10k advantage does his loop misses. Then runs like the wind. 5mins later RTB some spit16 jumps ya fine saw that comin. Having a good 1 with him about 2 mins its gone to the deck. Having fun doing scissors its about equal. And the Dora comes back after his daily strole to pick my ki. :cry :P Yes it's all about the pil-et. Could it have been a pony instead probably. My Ill attempt at making a point is some people could give a hoot.
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I see more 152 picking, HOin, and running because they can't do anything else. What they DO have is about 100mph more than the 190A models lol.
Yes I see a lotta 190as HOing, but most often folks are field porking with them. A lot of times when I see them dogfighting they actually have to fight because they can't run away. A lot more than almost every 152 I've ever run across, at any rate.
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Any good BnZmer that can aim will put .5 sec burst on a target, and it will go down. The folks that haven't master the angles and the deflections are the one that you often see them passing you and then break it off. Those that had mastered it, you won't see em coming and you won't feel em til you are back at the tower =)
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I regularly take out a 190a8, not an a5, low and slow against the horde of spits, f4us and the like from cvs.
And you are not too good in it. :aok
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Any good BnZmer that can aim will put .5 sec burst on a target, and it will go down. The folks that haven't master the angles and the deflections are the one that you often see them passing you and then break it off. Those that had mastered it, you won't see em coming and you won't feel em til you are back at the tower =)
Agreed. I fly the A5 model since it's the dogfighter of the series and if you ask anyone that has faced my A5 a couple months ago, they will tell ya i always engage in Co alt/ 1v1 engagements. :devil
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What is really funny about this thread, you guys are blaming the plane for a pilot's fighting style. The pilots you're complaining about in the Dora will do the same thing no matter what plane they fly. In cases of dweebish and timid behavior it's definitely the pilot and not the plane.
ack-ack
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QQ i wish i can play =)
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First of all....most aircraft were designed except for very few To E fight.
Example. The US did not design the F6F hell cat or F4U, or F4F to turn fight with the Japanese Zero or Oscar.
The same withthe P38. They were given speed, firepower and durability. Couldn't climb with a Zeke or an Oscar.
In the ETO the USAF had the P38, P47 and later the P51. They were not designed to stall fight or turn fight at 500 feet.
They were designed to fly just a bit higher to escort Bombers.
Now....the aircraft in question the FW190. It wasn't designed to turn fight either. It was designed to counter the SpitV.
It was designed to be fast, roll well, dive fast and be durable. It was used to BnZ bombers and mix it up at escort altitude
with the Allies escort fighters. The 190 was given heavy firepower for attacking bombers and the escort that got in the way.
This post has nothing to do with the History of the aircraft and on its' original use.
This is a reflection of gameplay and of cartoon aircraft in the game.
Since there are actually simmers playing this game if in a 190 I would use the attributes of my aircraft against any
deficiency of the opposing aircraft. Fight my fight and not fight into the others strengths. The idea is to win the fight.
There are also players in game that wish you to turnfight them because they are in a superior turning and climbing aircraft.
They will bait you etc. and maybe even call your integrity into question.
So if you up in a Zero,Spitfire etc don't get angry if you see a 190 around contolling the fight with Energy.
That is what the 190 was designed for....not to play the game your way because you are in a slower turnfighter. :aok
:aok +1
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Heres one for ya. 190a8 and i shot down this spit that hoed me, not to mention just as he turns in, he become a rubber band and is warping all over. Later he tries to to pick me on the runway, but i noe and got away. then i chased him noe all the way back to his base. He turns and hoes on me again. By a miracle we dodge around all over the place and finally out of fuel i turn for home, he pursues. with no engine (280k) all my turns are very smooth but I try to be unpredictable. At the last minute i see his guns light up, i pull up and drop flaps and he zooms by, slowley below me. Pull out flaps and nose down for one snap shot before i stall and I cut him in half, dead stick. So a 190a8 against a spit 16 on the deck... guys it ain't the plane, its the pilot, a better pilot would have closed and drilled me while he had the chance!
Here is a great idea. Put your egos on the shelf and accept that sometimes you are the hunted and the hunter, get over. people will fly all kinds of stuff, fly their style, not yours. Dead id dead no matter how they do it, they beat you and you are dead-they are not, get over it! Reup and go show them your uber skillz again lol
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You are few and far between. {SALUTE} but get over yourself. Spring is here and you'll find many new comers to the game that ho on a constant basis, bail out of bombers, cheat in any way they can and climb to 25 k only to auger on the way down running from you.
Just the way it is this time of year.
Good Job anyway : ) :aok
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I do get scared when I see an A5 but I been flying the Dora alil bit getting like 4-5 kills a sortie and you really can control a furball with one. Unless there is a con alot higher then you your gunna be able to outclimb most of the planes that are close to your speed, once you get them worked down lower then its shooting fish in a barrel. If someone does gets some E on me Ill rope them up then turn to make them flip themself over I love seeing people waist E upside down trying to make a 600+ shot.
Spiraling climb works well too. Even against a spit.
Love taking em round and round on the way up till your see their wings wobble knowing they must be frustrated as hell cause your jusst out of guns solution
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I see more 152 picking, HOin, and running because they can't do anything else. What they DO have is about 100mph more than the 190A models lol.
Yes I see a lotta 190as HOing....
That is difficult to believe.
I believe that there are lots of 190s trying to shoot at their more maneuverable enemies who often turn back to HO the 190s. The 190s are fast and hard to turn in that situation, thus they cannot often avoid the HO caused by the enemy.
Fundamental difference in perceiving what an HO is and how it happens ;)
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I love the 190 A8, I sniped a guy 1000 out with it today :D
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Nice
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Any time we have a post like this I go and fly the plane just to see, well I have been flying the 190 D a couple of days and my thoughts on the bird........ Its not a turner (and I'm sure everyone knew this already), you really can't get slow with it because under 250 mph it suffers because it has no defense except the role and you can only get away with that for so long. It's a vertical fighter and it really shines in that role (IMO one of the best in the game). I find it a lot like the mustang in many ways, you have to keep the speed up because that seems to be its best defense. In the last 2 days I have gotten 35 kills in it with only losing 10, so it is a very capable fighter and speed is its name. I have had the thing over 500 and I had a squady along for the ride and he said it was near 550 and no compression issues at all. And even at that speed the thing roles like mad, and that F4U driver probably still doesn't know what killed him because it was over fast. So in the BnZ its probably the best in the game because of the 500 rounds of 20mm.....just my opinion, I think I'm going to fly it for a while :D
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you really can't get slow with it because under 250 mph it suffers because it has no defense except the role and you can only get away with that for so long.
You can get away with roll long enough to run some aircraft out of ammo :)
Doing flat scissors is fairly effective if you've got friendlies nearby (the Dora can take a few hits). However the aircraft's ability to do rolling scissors, if the initial barrel roll doesn't work out, can be a real life saver. The climb rate isn't too shabby either, you're not going to be able to get away from Spitfires without some E but generally you can climb away from American aircraft.
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Eh I don't know im starting to like the A5 great plane but i take the light gun package as it helps the roll rate a bit more. I used to fly the pony so switching was a bit difficult...and i never really thought about running in it cus well it cant or picking people...well if a guy is getting ganged I'll help out but that's about it.So if you have fought me you'll know i can give a decent fight with no running or dweebish move's even if im still learnin the damned thing :aok
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Practise makes perfect rattler, you‘ll get there. <S>
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<S> Kazaa
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TOOL:
The same could be said for Spit 16s, La7s, P-51s, P-38s, F4Us, blah, blah, blah :lol
It all depends on the pilot :cool:
Did I hear p38?
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Did I hear p38?
To me P-38s are the biggets nuisance... usually just easy newbie kills, but once in a while a vet, who can really handle that plane.
I hate that kind of inconsistency :)
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I just read your brilliant post. :salute to you for the utter lack of hypocrisy. Oh, btw, in case anyone doesn't know, Hajo flies the P-47D-40 most of the time, one of the more disadvantaged fighters in LW at typical MA alts. People can say his advice about not playing directly to a turn-fighter's strengths is timid, I say a "timid" fighter pilot would be tooling around in something more uber
First of all....most aircraft were designed except for very few To E fight.
Example. The US did not design the F6F hell cat or F4U, or F4F to turn fight with the Japanese Zero or Oscar.
The same withthe P38. They were given speed, firepower and durability. Couldn't climb with a Zeke or an Oscar.
In the ETO the USAF had the P38, P47 and later the P51. They were not designed to stall fight or turn fight at 500 feet.
They were designed to fly just a bit higher to escort Bombers.
Now....the aircraft in question the FW190. It wasn't designed to turn fight either. It was designed to counter the SpitV.
It was designed to be fast, roll well, dive fast and be durable. It was used to BnZ bombers and mix it up at escort altitude
with the Allies escort fighters. The 190 was given heavy firepower for attacking bombers and the escort that got in the way.
This post has nothing to do with the History of the aircraft and on its' original use.
This is a reflection of gameplay and of cartoon aircraft in the game.
Since there are actually simmers playing this game if in a 190 I would use the attributes of my aircraft against any
deficiency of the opposing aircraft. Fight my fight and not fight into the others strengths. The idea is to win the fight.
There are also players in game that wish you to turnfight them because they are in a superior turning and climbing aircraft.
They will bait you etc. and maybe even call your integrity into question.
So if you up in a Zero,Spitfire etc don't get angry if you see a 190 around contolling the fight with Energy.
That is what the 190 was designed for....not to play the game your way because you are in a slower turnfighter. :aok
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I just read your brilliant post. :salute to you for the utter lack of hypocrisy. Oh, btw, in case anyone doesn't know, Hajo flies the P-47D-40 most of the time, one of the more disadvantaged fighters in LW at typical MA alts. People can say his advice about not playing directly to a turn-fighter's strengths is timid, I say a "timid" fighter pilot would be tooling around in something more uber
I really respect both of the post and you Hajo or so right, everyone wants the enemy to fight to his planes strength and when it doesn't happen then the name calling start's. Let me say this, I fly BnZ planes I don't really care for the turners. If I'm coming in behind someone and they turn there super turning plane into me I'm going to shoot them in the face and I have no problem with that, (remember you turned into me so take it like a man or woman). All this you don't play the game right crap is really starting to get old, just because its not right in your mind doesn't mean it's not right in mine. "I" pay that $15.00 a month to play so I'm going to play the way I won't and I really don't care how others play, because I'm not paying there money for them to play. And until this game is "free" and there or a set of rules saying you have to play the way we say, it's never going to be played to everyone's liking because we are all different. So play the game, take your whippings when they happen and give them back when you can and have fun.
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Cajunn, what you describe is an ineffective approach to BnZ.
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Dude, I beat you by at least 6 months. I so rock :rock : http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247471.0.html
"Ok. In my opinion, the 190, all of them but especially the 190A8, is the most poorly flown plane in the game.
I am NOT a 190 guru. In fact I don't even consider myself fair in them. My skill in the 190 lies somewhere between the Hellcat and the P-38. But, about a year ago I did a 'tour' in the 190A5 and I found it to be a capable plane in the MA. I wasn't spectacular, but it can hold its own if you take the time to fly it. A very memorable fight was when I ended up on the deck with a pair of P-47D40's on my 6. These guys were just chewing me up, bit by bit. Somehow, by utilizing the awesome roll rate to just keep jinking, and taking alot of 50 cal, I was able to evade maybe 2-3 hard minutes until a friendly swiped them both off.
Anyway, the 190 seems to be a 1 trick pony (pun intended) in the MA anymore. Or maybe always. Maybe I just never noticed. I seem to catch nearly every 190A8 I've ever seen doing one of two things; occasionally both for variety. They will either:
1. Pork the radar (suicide optional); then the 1a. plan would be to reverse and shoot anything and everything on the field over and over until caught, pinned, and killed (or suicided).
2. Vulch. Plain and simple. Run down the runway, reverse, do it again, reverse, and so on until caught, pinned, and killed...suicide is the 2a. plan.
Now, there is a variant. This is the 'astro-190' (tm). This guy comes in at high alt (high being whatever is higher than everyone else). He sits, looks for a pick (or bnz if you will). After his run, he might reposition and try again. More likely, someone is going to force him down. Then he's going to:
1. Go to the deck and run.
1a. Go to the deck and run, but then at D400 he's going to bury the stick left/right and start rolling uncontrollably (we don't need no stinking controlled flight here).
2. Go to the deck, run to my field and then proceed to any of the options above.
3. Go to the deck and then HO anything and everything he sees until he is caught, pinned, and killed. Ram is optional.
In and of itself, it doesn't bother me all that much. I don't see the fun in that, but it's not my $15. So why post? Because the 190 is a nice plane. I mean, it's a really nice plane. It's capable. I've been pwned by guys like Dedalos and Storch and Trukill in them enough to know that it can outfly someone in a Spit (like me). I suppose it takes some finesse to fly well, but it's not the hardest plane in the set to fly. That honor goes to the P-38.
It makes me sad that so many folks don't take the time to learn the plane and, instead, use it in these ways. The 190 was a capable and feared plane in WW2 and, in this game, it's a cannon platform for the suicide porker, vulch dweeb, and general lamer. The plane is better than that. Folks should take the time to realize this."
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what's bnz?
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Cajunn, what you describe is an ineffective approach to BnZ.
How I play works for me! There is never a time when I quit for the night that I feel like my "ego" has been damaged in any way. If the day ever comes when I don't have fun getting on here and playing this game AH won't get my $15.00 anymore. Until then I'm going to play the way I want to and as long as I'm having fun I really don't care if I'm doing it right or wrong. And thank you sir, you just made my point for me.....whats right for you will never be right for me or a number of other players. :salute
Oh, and to reply to the ineffective BnZ, just to answer your question on that I fight vertical, I drop in on the six of my selected target and if they break turn and I can't cut the corner I just pull straight up reverse my flight path and most of the time drop right back on there six. And most of my kills come on the reverse because for some reason after most do the first break turn they seem to think that by me pulling vertical that I'm just climbing for the clouds and I guess they lose there SA because that second break turn never happens and it turns into a kill. And I don't furball or do the 1v1, I'm usually found in defense of a base or trying to take one.
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Did I hear p38?
When are you getting back online? :cool:
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What you describe there is a much better description of BnZ. I was just a little concerned because if you're taking "face shots" out of frustration when your target turns into you, you will be frustrated quickly.
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How I play works for me! There is never a time when I quit for the night that I feel like my "ego" has been damaged in any way. If the day ever comes when I don't have fun getting on here and playing this game AH won't get my $15.00 anymore. Until then I'm going to play the way I want to and as long as I'm having fun I really don't care if I'm doing it right or wrong. And thank you sir, you just made my point for me.....whats right for you will never be right for me or a number of other players. :salute
A lot of tactics aren't really subjective like you imply. The "right" way to do things gives you the most effective angles while minimizing risk. I'm not saying you are doing something wrong, but doing things as right as you can definitely makes things more fun in the long run. :aok
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To me P-38s are the biggets nuisance... usually just easy newbie kills, but once in a while a vet, who can really handle that plane.
I hate that kind of inconsistency :)
Would be more consitent if Pawz didnt Haxx so much :D
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It's quite simple. Fly any 190 variant to hell and back, Learn it's characteristics. Mixed with proper knowledge of ACM and BFM as well as energy management you will know how to effectively use a 190 in a single or multi plane engagement.
I find the A5 to be the most pure dogfighter in my opinion. Now i know moot will go to bat with that statement any day of the year but it's my opinion just as it's his that the 152 is the best pure dogfighter. At the end of the day it all boils down to what you prefer and which 190 fits your style of play. I like to get in and mix it up with mines so anytime you see Yellow markings on a A5 you can rest assure that it's me if I'm online.
Grizz can second this statement as well:
It's not the plane, it's the pilot.
Anything that you've described above comes from the pilots input and how he is flying the aircraft, not the planes.
It is easy to recognize any half decent 190 stick regardless of the variant by the way it's handled and flown. Same goes for recognizing a horrible 190 pilot.
If you start to see a 190 do a series of barrel or lag displacement rolls, you can be assure you're dealing with a experienced Luft weenie. :cool:
Finally, the best 190 pilots are the ones you don't see coming or the ones that you least expect to pull that shot off. :devil
:salute
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No, you're right, the A5's the purest dogfighter. The 152's like the freak destroyer variant that's still dogfight worthy. The only argument I'll make is that it's more lethal in that small dogfighting margin. Purest dogfighter it's not. I dogfight a 25H any chance I get so I'm a bit biased :P
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The A8 isn't that much behind the A5 either. It's more lethal, has better WEP and is only slightly heavier and basically can do what the A5 does
depending on the amount of fuel and which tank has the fuel.
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The A5 is a sweetie.
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No, you're right, the A5's the purest dogfighter. The 152's like the freak destroyer variant that's still dogfight worthy. The only argument I'll make is that it's more lethal in that small dogfighting margin. Purest dogfighter it's not. I dogfight a 25H any chance I get so I'm a bit biased :P
i find that the A8 isn't as balanced as the other 190's, might just be me though.
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Would be more consitent if Pawz didnt Haxx so much :D
Its really easy once you have the code...<- -> down down up and space bar.
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Its a tough plane to fly that 190 and when flown well its a tough one to pin. . .but thats the same for all the planes (which is the whole point of this thread it seems). Last week I remember engaging 2 A8s with me in a ki84 and a friend in his spitty - they looped, extended, climbed and generally acted like two ballerinas in the air. And after I turned around to head home (it was a pointless chaise) then they turn around and went to work killing my friend first (the spitty is more dangerous) then me.
The point is - after seeing two A8s work together really well at low altitude I have new respect for 190s - but I think unlike some other planes, the 190 performs a lot better in smart coordinated packs rather then as `solo` planes (solo meaning acting alone in the fishbowl) like ponies and spitties do - that is to say in packs its not addition but multiplication in terms of effectiveness.
but thats just my 2 cents as a new pilot.
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1 of the best fights I've ever had in AH was in a D9 with another squadie also in a D9.
We fought our way through a huge red blob and ended up fighting two Pony Ds on the deck out in the middle of the ocean.
It was unreal. 2 v 2, skimming the waves.
Doras came out on top... just. It was epic. :salute
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but I think unlike some other planes, the 190 performs a lot better in smart coordinated packs rather then as `solo` planes (solo meaning acting alone in the fishbowl) like ponies and spitties do - that is to say in packs its not addition but multiplication in terms of effectiveness.
You got it.
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1 of the best fights I've ever had in AH was in a D9 with another squadie also in a D9.
We fought our way through a huge red blob and ended up fighting two Pony Ds on the deck out in the middle of the ocean.
It was unreal. 2 v 2, skimming the waves.
Doras came out on top... just. It was epic. :salute
I would like to see film on that, I bet it was awesome.
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Cajunn, i have a film for you sir. Possibly one of my best sorties with my wingman facing against the odds and coming out alive with me and my wingman still flying with some battle damage. I think you'll be on the edge of your seat.
:salute
http://www.mediafire.com/?wz1md4jzzji
Tell me what ya think about it. I think this film illustrates wingman piloting at it's finest. Luftwaffe prevails once again. :salute
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Cajunn, i have a film for you sir. Possibly one of my best sorties with my wingman facing against the odds and coming out alive with me and my wingman still flying with some battle damage. I think you'll be on the edge of your seat.
:salute
http://www.mediafire.com/?wz1md4jzzji
Tell me what ya think about it. I think this film illustrates wingman piloting at it's finest. Luftwaffe prevails once again. :salute
what a fight good fighting and :salute
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what a fight good fighting and :salute
DAnke Zher :salute
Sorties like those make me miss the game while I'm unable to play for the moment. But i have alot of Luftwaffe sorties also. :salute
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Lol this post actually perfectly described a couple fights I had yesterday perfectly... :rolleyes: