Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Ciaphas on April 09, 2009, 09:50:19 AM
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Was wondering if there was anybody that could spare the time in the mornings ( 0800-1000 PST) to help me learn the basics for either of these aircraft. If you are willing to teach me a bit about these birds could you please contact me to set up training times.. :pray
Cheers,
Ciaphas
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I am guessing you mean 109 and not 190. Look on the second page in this fourm for Agent360's films. I believe it's titled " Reposting of Agent360 films" A number of them are narrated, LOTS to be learned fro them for sure. There are a number of really good 109 guys in game for sure, so hopefully you will find some help.
Good luck and have fun :salute
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I love typos... :lol
I will check them out. Thanks!
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Agent's films are for the 109K-4, not the G-6 or G-14. They are somewhat applicable to the G-14, but less so for the G-6. There's a lot of moves he demonstrates that have you getting as slow as possible, and then using the K-4's massive horse power to speed up or climb like a homesick angel. Ironically, though the G-6 and G-14 are less competitive in the main arena, they require less training in specialty moves for success.
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A list of a few good 109 sticks that show up in the TA now and again:
- Mar: I think I've lost every encounter with him to this day.
- TheBug: Don't know if he goes in there often, but he said he used to. He taught me most of what I know now.
- BigRat: I seem to recall him claiming the 109 to be one of his favored rides... he's an excellent pilot. See him in there often.
Of course there are a lot of good sticks that fly in the TA most of the time (Morfiend comes to mind) that would probably help you out greatly. Of course there are also the trainers!
A few tips with any 109:
- One of the best climbers in the game vs any planeset, comparable to the Spitfires ( the 109F-4 vs Spit V; 109K-4 vs Spit XVI) Anything else... it should best more often than not. Use the vertical as much as you can - it will let you beat out flat turners a lot of the time and roping in the 109 is easy.
- Flap, throttle and rudder work is important. First notch can deploy at 200 IAS and they work really well. Very stable plane with full flaps extended at stall speeds as long as you don't gun the throttle and tork the plane into the ground.
- Guns are kinda weak, the 20mm Mk 108 cannon has poor ballistics and you only get one (unless you equip gondolas) ... I'd get as close to 200 yards before firing. The K-4 has the 30mm and the same can be said for that one, the closer the better.
- Controls get real heavy at around 425-450 IAS.
I know someone is going to turn around and correct me on some of this but hopefully it helps you some what. :aok
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Guns are kinda weak, the 20mm Mk 108 cannon has poor ballistics and you only get one (unless you equip gondolas) ... I'd get as close to 200 yards before firing. The K-4 has the 30mm and the same can be said for that one, the closer the better.[/li][/list]
The guns only seem weak if your gunnery is poor. Secondly, the 109F-4, G-2, G-6, and G-14 are armed with a 20mm MG 151. Its ballistics are comparable to the Ho-105 and Shvak 20mm cannons, all of which have decent ballistics. The 109K-4 has the challenging, low velocity 30mm Mk 108.
MG 151: ~755m/s
MK 108: ~540m/s
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Thanks guys!
So far this has been a hug help. I have been watching Agent's videos and while they are designed for the K-4 it still gives me ideas and a rough understanding of the planes capabilities. Make sense?
Cheers,
Ciaphas
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The guns only seem weak if your gunnery is poor. Secondly, the 109F-4, G-2, G-6, and G-14 are armed with a 20mm MG 151. Its ballistics are comparable to the Ho-105 and Shvak 20mm cannons, all of which have decent ballistics. The 109K-4 has the challenging, low velocity 30mm Mk 108.
MG 151: ~755m/s
MK 108: ~540m/s
I knew something was going to be wrong. :lol
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I knew something was going to be wrong. :lol
We luft weanies take great pride in accurate equipment references. :D
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I need to learn throttle control. It's something I just don't understand a whole lot about.
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The throttle does a few things for you other than make you go fast.
When you start to knife fight ( get slow and scissor) it is very useful to use the massive tork of the plane to maneuver.
Pulling the throttle off (not slamming it off) then left rudder and slamming it on will fling your plane over and slew the nose around. The timed use of wep at the same time will also produce even more tork. With the nose up and stalling you can make the plane do amazing stall turns.
Turning right when slow can be hard. But if you cut throttle to zero quickly,,,right rudder and roll hard then slam it on again after the turn you can make the plane turn just fine to the right.
Anytime the nose is pointed down (below horizontal) you will gain speed quickly. If you need to get your nose back up quick you must cut the throttle.
Flaps wont come out unless you are under 200 mph. So you must pay attention to the speed. Contolling the speed such that you can deploy flaps to maneuver then gain E is all throttle dependant.
A common mistake 109 sticks make is to nose down gain speed then pull up...now they hit the wep and climb like crazy after the target. What you really want to do is glide down and up...when going up pull the throttle OFF and get your flaps out. Once they come out hit the wep and continue to climb.
When I finally get in close and cut the seperation down my goal is to MAKE THE OTHER GUY FLY CIRCLES AROUN ME cutting his turn every time. The faster he stays like this the better.
As a learning drill get in the MA and put your throttle at exactly half speed. DO NOT TOUCH the throttle. Now engage and maneuver without using the throttle. This will force you to manage your energy and make you understand how to use the verticle. At some point you start thinking I need speed..or I need to slow down. You will have the almost overpowering feeling of using the throttle. But do not touch it.
AFter you do this a few times it will become very clear when the throttle should be on and when it should be off. And you will know when to use the throttle to tork the plane. Try it..you will be very surprised how you can out fly many planes with only half throttle.
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All,
Thanks for the great tips. I will be practicing my rear off!
Cheers,
Ciaphas
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I'd be glad to show you 109 basics during those times - but only on the weekends.
Dont know the 51B near well enough to be anything but a bad student.
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I'd be glad to show you 109 basics during those times - but only on the weekends.
Thanks for the offer man, though weekends are usual reserved for my family. I'm not saying that I never fly on the weekends as I fly when I can and that often changes from week to week..
:salute
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I'd be glad to show you 109 basics during those times - but only on the weekends.
Dont know the 51B near well enough to be anything but a bad student.
Dweeb
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As for the 109G6 - it has those 2 bulges sticking out in front of the cockpit. They are there to contain huge balls of anyone who flys this plane. All 109s excel in at least one area, all except this one. It feels like following Agent360's advice and flying 109k at 50% power all the time except you don't have 30mm. Great ride if you like challenges, otherwise only a source of frustration. To survive in MA keep your speed up, avoid stall horn, be gentle and coordinated on controls to conserve every bit of energy and plan your engagement carefully. But this also applies to any other plane in the game, right?
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As for the 109G6 - it has those 2 bulges sticking out in front of the cockpit. They are there to contain huge balls of anyone who flys this plane. All 109s excel in at least one area, all except this one. It feels like following Agent360's advice and flying 109k at 50% power all the time except you don't have 30mm. Great ride if you like challenges, otherwise only a source of frustration. To survive in MA keep your speed up, avoid stall horn, be gentle and coordinated on controls to conserve every bit of energy and plan your engagement carefully. But this also applies to any other plane in the game, right?
109G6 is the best 109 in the game. Period.
:aok
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I just got own'd in my 109G-6..
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I just got own'd in my 109G-6..
hey Ciaphas. :salute
The G6 is the most Skill/Pilot demanding of the 109 series. It requires basic/intermediate knowledge of the 109 plane set to perform adequately in the MA environment. If i was still playing I'd be sure to give you a hands of training session buddy. But what do you need help with? I should be able to give you text instructions.
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Talon,
Right now I'm just trying to get comfortable with the airframe.
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Talon,
Right now I'm just trying to get comfortable with the airframe.
Put down the G6 and pick up the G2. G2 is a enhanced version of the F4. Perfect for beginner 109 pilots because it's not as demanding as the G6 is.
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ok. I shall give it a try.. thanks man! :aok
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Np bro. least i can do due to our unfortunate past problems. :(
Any who, if you're thinking about hopping into the Irons, i recommend these vids:
JG11 vs AoM:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ntytrjmzymq
JG11 190A5 Rotte Vs Rook Group:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wz1md4jzzji
JG11 190A5 Rotte vs 367th:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tazgmjyjiyy
Hope you enjoy them. :salute
If you need anymore regarding E management and more, Pm me and I'll send them to you. They are a Must have and a Must know for 109/190 pilots. Mainly the 190 pilots though. :devil
:salute
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thanks again man, I do appreciate them and all the help everyone is tryng to give my dense brain. In your opinion what are the 109 series aircraft in order of skill required to be successful in?
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G2, G14, G6
K4 is a entirely new A/C but it's a pain in the arse to master. It's a beast but it doesn't give the satisfaction of knocking down anything in a G6.
G2- Training Wheels. Once you learn the basics and a little intermediate move on to the G14. the G2 is the turner, it can turn with spitfires but should not stick in a committed luft berry style fight. Always fight Nose high in 109s. Always.
G14- Reason being, it has the most options of the 109s regarding armament. If you're looking to progress into the K4 then fly the G14 with the Mk108 30mm hub Cannon. If you're progressing into the G6 fly it with the MG 151/20mm hub cannon. G14 is performance wise greater than the G6 in every aspect except maneuverability, but you have other Jagdfliegers that will debate this.
G6- The ultimate 109 to master. It's a mix between the G2 and the G14. The G6 is a heavy bugger because it's more armored than the G2 but it's more stable in a Low speed stall/knife fight and it's clearly noticeable. The G2 is too light when maneuvering that slow and has a tendency to drop it's left wing if pushed to fall in a stall fight, where as the G6 does not have this problem. The good thing about the G6 is it's firepower. 2x 13mm MG Cowlings mixed with the center firing Hub 20mm cannon makes short work of anything that you put your gunsights on. Firepower dictates how fast you can drop a aircraft once you have a gun solution and can often not save your skin by having the ability to kill your opponent in a quick fashion. This is why the G6 is the best in MY opinion. It's firepower, demanding skill and pilot level, and it's ruggedness. The G6 takes more bullets than any other 109 in the game and can tangle with the best of them. You just have to understand her strength's and weaknesses.
:salute
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I've always preferred the 109F4.
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That G2 is sure fun to fly. I will have to try the F-4 model here after I master the G2..
:rock
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The g6 feels like you have a lead weight hanging from your nose. Otherwise it still flies like an 09.
k4 is my plane.
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As for the 109G6 - it has those 2 bulges sticking out in front of the cockpit. They are there to contain huge balls of anyone who flys this plane.
Quote for future sig use.
I love it. :D
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Yeah that was a good phrase.
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The throttle does a few things for you other than make you go fast.
When you start to knife fight ( get slow and scissor) it is very useful to use the massive tork of the plane to maneuver.
Pulling the throttle off (not slamming it off) then left rudder and slamming it on will fling your plane over and slew the nose around. The timed use of wep at the same time will also produce even more tork. With the nose up and stalling you can make the plane do amazing stall turns.
Turning right when slow can be hard. But if you cut throttle to zero quickly,,,right rudder and roll hard then slam it on again after the turn you can make the plane turn just fine to the right.
Anytime the nose is pointed down (below horizontal) you will gain speed quickly. If you need to get your nose back up quick you must cut the throttle.
Flaps wont come out unless you are under 200 mph. So you must pay attention to the speed. Contolling the speed such that you can deploy flaps to maneuver then gain E is all throttle dependant.
A common mistake 109 sticks make is to nose down gain speed then pull up...now they hit the wep and climb like crazy after the target. What you really want to do is glide down and up...when going up pull the throttle OFF and get your flaps out. Once they come out hit the wep and continue to climb.
When I finally get in close and cut the seperation down my goal is to MAKE THE OTHER GUY FLY CIRCLES AROUN ME cutting his turn every time. The faster he stays like this the better.
As a learning drill get in the MA and put your throttle at exactly half speed. DO NOT TOUCH the throttle. Now engage and maneuver without using the throttle. This will force you to manage your energy and make you understand how to use the verticle. At some point you start thinking I need speed..or I need to slow down. You will have the almost overpowering feeling of using the throttle. But do not touch it.
AFter you do this a few times it will become very clear when the throttle should be on and when it should be off. And you will know when to use the throttle to tork the plane. Try it..you will be very surprised how you can out fly many planes with only half throttle.
I fly the Spit IX at half throttle, faster isn't always better....good right up Agent! :salute
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I like the 109 a lot. It is a very versatile plane and just really cool to fly and is my ride of choice. But I have to go with the guy at the beginning of this thread about the guns leaving quite a bit to be desired. I know some people will tell you to improve your gunnery but that doesn't change the fact that the single stream of 20mm is inferior. It still leaves you disappointed even when you have improved your gunnery because the gun system on the 109 leaves too many planes still flying around where almost any other plane would have it dead.
The result is frustration after getting hit sprites all over your opponent and nothing happening to him. The reason nothing happened is because not as many 20mm's connected as you think they did. He should have been dead. Chalk this up to poor gunnery or whatever, fact is too many people have poor gunnery in this plane so I have to assume it's the plane and not them. A common denominator is a common denominator. But with a lot of practice you'll get it.
For dueling it's totally cool. More than enough ammo. But taking this thing into the war is not the best option if you're a lone wolf. If you'll notice, you don't see many 109's landing with 5+ kills. 5 kills is shooting absolutely lights out for most pilots in this offensively challenged plane shooting ability aside. You have to have the opportunities first, which are rare because everyone has to fly 1945 aircraft in the MA and you can't catch them unless you fly a late, late war 109K-4. But typically 109 fans like to fly the variants that had a legit production and combat record.