Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rogwar on April 12, 2009, 12:48:21 PM
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They rescued the captain!
Lets not get into any politics. This is just a thread to celebrate. :aok
:rock
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Dont mess with the seal team. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-violent045.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org)
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Pifffft, the pirates said they were not afraid of Americans. Three of the four Somali gunmen are now dead, the fourth wounded to an unspecified degree and the hostage rescued UNHARMED.
It befuddles the imagination as to why these shipping companies were paying these morons the ransoms they demanded. Even a certified idiot knows all that will do is motivate
more kidnappings. Hopefully now the organized Navies of the world will from this point on blow those mothers of dogs up on sight.
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:aok super stuff
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It befuddles the imagination as to why these shipping companies were paying these morons the ransoms they demanded. Even a certified idiot knows all that will do is motivate
more kidnappings.
They pay because ransoms are less troublesome than arming ships, training crews to defend their ships, and dealing with the bad publicity that would occur if some poor wittle Somali "fishermen" got thoroughly perforated while innocently hunting fish for their families with AK-47s and RPGs in the shipping lanes. The Somali's ransom demands are also probably cheaper than the lawsuits the shipping companies would face if a crewman got killed defending his ship, particularly in America.
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All these guys were in a raft in close proximity... So, 4 bad guys with 1 hostage in a raft....
Man, whoever (SEALS) those guys were, they were definitely crack shots.... :salute
Glad we live in a country that would take these kinds of measures to keeps its citizens safe,
no matter where they are.. I don't think there are many other countries that would do this
type of thing to rescue its own people.. :rock :rock :rock
Makes me proud to have earned the right to be a citizen of the USA... :salute
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Pifffft, the pirates said they were not afraid of Americans. Three of the four Somali gunmen are now dead, the fourth wounded to an unspecified degree and the hostage rescued UNHARMED.
It befuddles the imagination as to why these shipping companies were paying these morons the ransoms they demanded. Even a certified idiot knows all that will do is motivate
more kidnappings. Hopefully now the organized Navies of the world will from this point on blow those mothers of dogs up on sight.
History repeats itself?
Ironic that it was almost exactly 200 years ago that there was a pirate problem being dealt with by the U.S. around that area?
Maybe it's time to follow through?
wrongway
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:aok super stuff
Thanks texasmom ;)
Glad you understood the part about keeping discussions of what we should and should not do out of this thread.
We could all use some good news right about now and this captain's rescue is great news!
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They pay because ransoms are less troublesome than arming ships, training crews to defend their ships, and dealing with the bad publicity that would occur if some poor wittle Somali "fishermen" got thoroughly perforated while innocently hunting fish for their families with AK-47s and RPGs in the shipping lanes. The Somali's ransom demands are also probably cheaper than the lawsuits the shipping companies would face if a crewman got killed defending his ship, particularly in America.
That is exactly what a certified idiot would think. All it does it create a pirate empire much like the mafia. Pay them a monthly fee into infinity and they do not kill you. Or you keep the high seas safe for free passage. It amazes me sometimes that western civilization has endured thus far in spite of itself.
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That is exactly what a certified idiot would think. All it does it create a pirate empire much like the mafia. Pay them a monthly fee into infinity and they do not kill you. Or you keep the high seas safe for free passage. It amazes me sometimes that western civilization has endured thus far in spite of itself.
You didn't get the impression I agree with this policy did you? :huh I'd bet money I'm correct about the motives behind it though. As well there are probably many legal impediments to adequately arming ships and crews for self-defense.
EDIT: The shipping company's actions remind me of the default, common-sense advice about getting robbed: Don't fight, its only money, life and limb are worth more than money. Which is true, as far as that goes, but what is on the table isn't just money, it is the principle that men should be secure in their property, without which no civilization is possible. Not fighting might be a personally safer choice, but it doesn't make the *next* victim the wicked ones choose any safer.
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System:Navy Seals landed 3 victories using probably ubber weapons of US NAVY :D
oink seals :)
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Merchant ships should be armed like Spanish galleons. A couple CWIS per side with remote control would probably do the trick. Crew could sit inside armored safe room and blast the surroundings of the ship through FLIR remote display.
That wouldn't help against sneak attack at night though, or any surprise attack.
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I agree.
Even an arms locker on board would help. If I was a merchant seaman I'd be looking to buy a weapon at the first port of call.
In this particular case the boat full of Somali's followed the Maersk wossname for 4 hours before catching up to board and when they did they fired they nice shiney (ahem) AK-47s in the air. Bearing in mind just how choppy it can get in a little boat.....and how stable a big ship is in the same water, 1 fella taking pot shots at em for the 4 hours it took em to catch up might just put the ******* off the idea.
Ya don't want ships with jumpy crew having access to a weapon that can sink another boat cos you know what'll happen, some small boat (possibly not even Somalian) would get sunk and there'd be hell to pay. No, small arms is all you need.
Apparently on the Maersk wossname the chief engineer offered to show a Somali around the engine room and when they got down there he hit him with an ice pick. Nice :).
There'll probably be a film made about this.
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The problem is that the pirates have RPG's so the merchants are probably very scared to start a firefight unless they possess a real punch. FLIR guided chaingun + aim assist systems would be a heavens send. You could identify armed attackers from miles away through zoom and then take autorange pot shots at them. Just one burst would disable any small boat.
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That's a good point actually, I didn't think about RPG's.
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Arming merchant ships won't work. It will only lead to escalation by the side that can afford to and have access to the heavier weapons. Pirates will end up with heavier and heavier weapons due to the fact they have access to the black market. Shipping companies cannot. As well, you give weapons to merchants that have no training.... a recipe for disaster. They have a right to defend themselves, but are not a flagged warship, and cannot engage any vessel directly. Therefore, anything larger than small arms is out. Meanwhile, as stated, the pirates have access to a larger choice of weaponry via the black market.
Putting Small groups of highly trained special weapons teams onboard ships transitting the area may have effect in the short term, but may be a fuzzy gray area in treatise law. It would give those pirates a bit of pause, if they think a ship has a tactical response team onboard.
A larger naval presence... would mitigate the pirates with brute force, but would also be costly for our Navy.
The only true solution is a Somalia with a stable power base that can effect policy and enforce law on it's own internal affairs. This is, unfortunately, the most improbable, as the country's current government has control on about 2 square miles of the capital... and that's about it.
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Don't know about you Moray, but somehow think I'd be better off with some trusty firearm. Somehow think the Pirates would also think twice before.
Q ships?
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History repeats itself?
Ironic that it was almost exactly 200 years ago that there was a pirate problem being dealt with by the U.S. around that area?
Maybe it's time to follow through?
wrongway
I was just reading up on it lastnight. I had remembered an old book I had that had the Phillidelphia capture in it. I dug it out and read. The US did sent ships there I think ir was around 1804, and there was that whacky coalition of ground troops that were to capture some cities but the tribute was paid to the Pasha long after up till 1816, but thats all it said. Not sure why we continued paying, or why it stopped then.
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Don't know about you Moray, but somehow think I'd be better off with some trusty firearm. Somehow think the Pirates would also think twice before.
Q ships?
Like I said, Small arms fine. But, they'd have to wait to shoot until the pirates are on the ship.
International law states that merchantman cannot engage another ship on the high seas. Otherwise, they are a flagged ship of war, and the country they are flagged under is responsible for their actions. Therefore, a company cannot control a ship of war.
In WW2, our merchant fleet became flagged ships under national control, and were therefore able to carry medium defensive armaments. (3" and 5" along with 20 and 40mm for air.)
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Like I said, Small arms fine. But, they'd have to wait to shoot until the pirates are on the ship.
International law states that merchantman cannot engage another ship on the high seas. Otherwise, they are a flagged ship of war, and the country they are flagged under is responsible for their actions. Therefore, a company cannot control a ship of war.
In WW2, our merchant fleet became flagged ships under national control, and were therefore able to carry medium defensive armaments. (3" and 5" along with 20 and 40mm for air.)
Maybe merchant ships could learn from South Africa where they developed underbody flamethrowers to repel carjackers. The idea is that with a press of a button the car owner can incinerate anything within 3 feet of the car. This should work well against pirates trying to board the ship.. :)
Then again they'd probably rpg the waterline as their next move. I think the solution is to nuke them from orbit.