Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sincraft on April 18, 2009, 10:52:23 AM
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Recently, my brother and I (the only other member of our squad), have been running missions to capture bases. I know many of you dislike NOE type missions but for the most part, this is what we do. We have been rather successful when normally low numbers have failed. Usually we start out with just a hand full of guys, then more trickle in after each successful mission. I'm usually surprised by the 3rd mission to see 30 guys behind us.
So, this makes me wonder a few things.
When we first start, I'm not very energetic about missions. Once we get rolling though, it becomes fun. I realized something last night. I think it's more about the teamwork rather than taking the bases. It's more about talking it up with a group of guys and accomplishing a common goal (or at least attempting!).
So while I know many of you probably hate NOE missions, or if you were a knight last night...you probably hate them even more, what types of missions do you like?
What makes a mission fun for you...or not?
What do YOU consider a fun mission?
I would like to incorporate some thoughts into future missions. Neither of us are big on running missions as they can be nerve racking sometimes, but just taking off and furballing is getting me down to be honest.
So if you have the time, and don't mind - I like to hear your thoughts.
Thanks!
:salute
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I dislike that if you go on them its basicly if its an NOE misson you fly 2 sectors to kill 3 town buildings, not worth my time. But i love to intercept NOE missons and get a few kills. :)
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More than anything is I like the abrupt humor when a bunch of folks get together.
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A mission is a number of targets flying together to my convenience
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the only missions i really care for anymore are the completely absurd.. like a horde of stukas.. or c202's.. etc etc.
our squad once did a multi-prong strat pork run to an enemy zone.. IIRC, city, ord factory, troop factory, radar factory, ack factory all down to 0% or close to 0%... done with like 10 set of lancs from like 25k alt.. even got to kill several interceptors... that was pretty fun..
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I like running into a mission w/ a d9 or a big bomber mission w/ a 262!
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I generally only like themed missions, such as-
-noe mossies
-kamikaze d3a/b5n anti-cv, it's been years since i can recall a horde of b5ns dive bombing into a cv with screams of kamikazeeeee on 200.
-ju88s/stukas escorted by 109Es
-b17s escorted by p51s
stuff like that is fun whether the mission succeeds or not.
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Missions, first and most importantly are suppose to be fun.... for everyone, friend and foe alike.
For me the only reason to run an NOE mission, is as a support to the main mission. Say your hitting a base, and while you knocked out the VH the enemy is spawning GVs in from another base. Shifting the battle to the other base would pose the same problem, and the defense is high enough that your going to need more than the 15 minutes it down to get things under control. You assign 5 or 6 guys to run an NOE to the other base to try and sneak it, all the while maintaining the battle you have going. Defenders have two battles IF they spot it...more fun for both sides... you relieve pressure at the main attack and force the defenders to work a new tactic...more fun for both again.
All other missions should be of some altitude. High alt bombers lift 15 minutes before fighter escort, will give you rondevous at high alt. Mid alt needs more fighter cover, so you need some fighters heavy for clean up, others lite for cover. Having a couple of buff groups hitting ord and SB just as a CV group launches an attack can be tough to time out but is really cool when it works.
When I was CO of a squad, squad night I felt it was my duty to make the night as entertaining as possible. The more fun the squad had the more guys would show up for the next one. Its all about having fun. You have to look at your missions from the other side too. You said you run a lot of NOE missions, and commented that the Knight probably hate them. If the Knights had been doing them to you, would it have been as much for you as running them? I think not. Plan your missions to have fun, COUNT on defense poping up and make it PART of your fun. If you hit a base with 20 guys and only a few defenders show have your guys back off the field, only shoot guys that come out of the ack. You have enough people to put a circle around the ack, let the defenders give it a go. More fun for them, and more challenge for your guys, so more fun for them too.
To many people believe that the object of the mission is the capture, but its really to create fun for as many people who want to join in it.
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Hurricane Mk. 2D raids are always fun. :)
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I really don't care for missions at all. The only missions we do from time to time involve taking something like stukas with no bombs into a fray and dogfighting. The goal is accomplished when we have fun.
I enjoy the camaraderie of our squad and do not require a horde to accomplish anything.
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Plan your missions to have fun, COUNT on defense poping up and make it PART of your fun. If you hit a base with 20 guys and only a few defenders show have your guys back off the field, only shoot guys that come out of the ack. You have enough people to put a circle around the ack, let the defenders give it a go. More fun for them, and more challenge for your guys, so more fun for them too.
To many people believe that the object of the mission is the capture, but its really to create fun for as many people who want to join in it.
I think the biggest thing is the intent during the planning of the mission. If you plan to avoid combat and take a base then you aren't accomplishing anything. Imo you should plan for a positive gameplay mission for everybody, but I don't think you should back off from a base if your mission is to take it down and capture it. If you plan out a fair mission and are still able to crush the base, too bad, capture it and be done with it.
So what is a fair mission? That's up to the mission planner to decide, but it usually involves flying with altitude and less than 20 guys attacking an undefended base.
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I enjoy the camaraderie of our squad
Same. And all of us bailing to get to the next fight is about as coordinated as we get :) .
-Zap
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I only participate/Plan historical missions. Meaning i don't mix American with German iron nor Russian with Jap planes. I make alot of Luftwaffe missions since i am in fact, Luftwaffe oriented. Anyone that has ran any type of mission with me will vouch that my missions are: Fun, Well Planned, Immerse, and Action packed.
I always have a en route, plan, and egress plan with all of my missions. I plan the route, the mission which it will perform, and the egress direction, base, etc. I think alot of rooks as well as knights and bishops remember my past massive Bomber Raids from rook nation, good times indeed. :cool:
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My squad does stuff like that, Shuffler. This one time (at band camp), we upped 5 goons, climbed to alt and dive-bombed our troops onto a remote and untouched field. The best part was getting on the 6 of a 205 that was defending and he stick-stirred his way back to the ack. I imagine that he was terrified when he got the check6 call: "LOOK OUT! Goon on your 6!!!"
I tried to vulch him - hoping he would auger but I did instead. :lol
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:rofl
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Like-They quickly identify those prone to group-think and doing what some jack-leg armchair general tells them to do. This is good information to have.
Dislike-They are almost always about something other than shooting a plane with a plane or a tank with a tank.
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Missions aren't done right. Most times they're an excuse to milkrun with NO threat of enemy interception.
You want to do a mission right, you get LEVEL bombers, take out the VH ***first pass***, and then shut down FHs. Need dedicated deackers. Need dedicated town killers. You need 2 or more bomber formations, and at least 2 goons (that should be kept as far AWAY from each other as possible, so as not to both be killed while flying formation with each other).
There's a certain formula for taking a base, where the base puts up a defense, and you still get the job done. I hate flying like a coward under radar for 100 miles just to pop a building, orbit, and land with no opposition. Toolshedders may get their hearts thumping, but most are beyond that level of activity. Might as well do it OFFLINE if your goal is to avoid any and all enemy.
My thoughts on missions.
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Doesn't bombing the hangars eliminate the threat of opposition?
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Doesn't bombing the hangars eliminate the threat of opposition?
Yup :-)
It would take a complex strat system to make level bombers anything other than a sledgehammer-used-to-smash-flies annoyance in the MA.
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Yup :-)
sledgehammer-used-to-smash-flies annoyance in the MA.
lmao :rofl
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teamwork
This is why I like missions. I don't care if they're NOE, 20k, or anywhere in between. I just like having a bunch of people in complementary aircraft taking off from the same field, at the same time, with the same goal. There's nothing I hate worse than watching a straggling line of friendly dots plod their way back into a furball only to get picked off one by one. For me personally, this defeats the purpose of a team-based online game. (that's just ME, no flames please!)
Any mission is fun for me when there is a coordinated effort involved. Win or lose.
Personally, I think it would be kind of neat if there were some sort of "auto generated" missions that would pop up in the game. For instance, the arena might generate a base capture mission, BUT it also generates a base defense mission for the other team at roughly the same time... This would give it a kind of mini-FSO like feel when the defenders know that someone is coming from somewhere, but no idea what/where/or how high. The defending team would have to organize some sort of defense at various altitudes in order to secure the base from all possible angles... and it would force the offense to approach from multiple attack vectors and different altitudes as well... in addition, unescorted bombers wouldn't stand a chance.
Of course, there would have to be some sort of reward for properly capturing or defending the base in question within a certain amount of time - or people might do retarded things like attack a different base than the one described in the mission. Still, I think there's something to this idea that could be explored.
Tim
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Normaly i wont join large missions.I prefer my squad getting together as few as 4 to 5 for Vbases and 7 to 8 for air bases, and takeing a base defended or not it really doesnt matter.Doing this and takeing pride that we can do such a thing with low numbers.Haveing 6 sets of lancs and 20heavy fighters just to take a Vbase is comical.sometimes on our way to a base we may pick up a few that want to join in and they seem to have a good time. Teamwork is the key coordination is everything.On occasion 10 of us will up bombers and flatten 2 or 3 bases just for Sh&#$ and giggles and watch the ants scramble as the big dog takes a wizz on the anthill.We laugh about whats probly being said on the country channel of the country we hit. :rofl we may not take the base but were not in it for the land grab were in it to fly together. But if we can take it so be it. :salute
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I hate base taking missions that take bases just for the sake of taking a base.
If you're gonna take a base, stay and defend it afterwards! (pork around it etc.)
And if you get resistance in taking the base, don't give up and move to another base.
I prefer having to fight for base, not having it handed to me on a silver platter.
Noes can be alot of fun with the right guys.
They can open up whole new battlefronts.
And while Noes need to be applied at times, they shouldn't be used as the main tool in your "mission" bag.
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Noes can be alot of fun with the right guys.
They can open up whole new battlefronts.
And while Noes need to be applied at times, they shouldn't be used as the main tool in your "mission" bag.
Amen.
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Great one last nite Thunder!!
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base captures with resistance are way more fun.I like doing em all.I really enjoy the time spent with friends an squaddies.NOE's can be fun.I really like the multi attack approach with bombers,fighters an armour.It just seems a well rounded assualt.Our squad likes doing fighter sweeps.They are a blast.It seems when you can do coordinated activities it just seems to be more fun
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In most of the missions I have ever been in the problem is simple, too many chiefs not enough indians, vox is jammed packed with the lil generals who didnt even create the mission, but deserve to be in charge. Unless it fails.
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:rofl
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My squad dont generally base take, unless its to find a fight - best one I've been on had me, Bruv and Stu. Bruv took a fighter, I was in a 110 for town, with Stu in a goon. Had to make a 2nd run with a 110 to finish town off, and lead the fighters near town away out to sea. Bruv was killing everything possible, and Stu landed the goon near town, waited till I led the fighters away, released and we took it. Had opposition from the start, much more fun that way.
Whether I join a mission or not really depends on my mood, tho I must admit I do like kicking off fights (even if I die virtually every time).
If I can bounce a noe mission, I'll call it out, then engage lol....which generally ends in my death rather rapidly.
Wurzel
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Once me and another squadie were escorting an NOE misson in 38J's. They found us out and a horde upped so me and my partner started slaughering them, i ended up with 9 kills my squadie 7. That was fun. :rock
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hordes i mean missions are the best part of the game.. other then spwan camping i think :) :aok
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DuhWeeb. :noid
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Taking bombers in to meet the enemy, the enemy has MORE than ample notice to take off in gigantic horde-like [EDIT: assuming normal MA operations, not couting 30K buffs flying outside historical alts] numbers (I'm looking at YOU rooks...) and swarm any attackers. Not to mention that even if FH are taken down, there can still be upwards of 50 planes in the air after that point, and massive spamming of IL2s and Bostons and B25Hs to kill town-killers and hunt goons.
It far from shuts the fight down. When done right it helps take a base. When done wrong, well... you get "knit capture attempts" that last 2 hours and nobody knows what the heck they're doing.
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Its not an NOE mission till you loose your goon, face planting into a mountain. Ahh NUTZ.
Have to admit first guy that augers is my hero. :P
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My squad does stuff like that, Shuffler. This one time (at band camp), we upped 5 goons, climbed to alt and dive-bombed our troops onto a remote and untouched field. The best part was getting on the 6 of a 205 that was defending and he stick-stirred his way back to the ack. I imagine that he was terrified when he got the check6 call: "LOOK OUT! Goon on your 6!!!"
I tried to vulch him - hoping he would auger but I did instead. :lol
Now that is what it is all about :) <S>
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First, 30K is a perfectly historical alt for buffs.
Second, no one wants to fool with the darn things, for good reasons With the formations and the linked laser-like guns, shooting accurately from a perfectly still platform out to 800 yards, buff-hunting is simultaneously more dangerous, more boring, and far less glamorous than engaging fighters.
Taking bombers in to meet the enemy, the enemy has MORE than ample notice to take off in gigantic horde-like [EDIT: assuming normal MA operations, not couting 30K buffs flying outside historical alts] numbers (I'm looking at YOU rooks...) and swarm any attackers. Not to mention that even if FH are taken down, there can still be upwards of 50 planes in the air after that point, and massive spamming of IL2s and Bostons and B25Hs to kill town-killers and hunt goons.
It far from shuts the fight down. When done right it helps take a base. When done wrong, well... you get "knit capture attempts" that last 2 hours and nobody knows what the heck they're doing.
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No, 30K is not normal operations. B24s could not fly higher than 27K according to one report. B17s could barely fly at 30K but operationally did not as much as "some" on these forums claim.
The difference was the flexible design on the B-24, it flexed and warped too much at higher alts/speeds, and was dangerous to fly so high.
But I meant "take off this field, hit that field with intent on taking it" not "take off 200 miles behind enemy lines, go AFK 2 hours, come back in space, bomb with laser precision from orbit, and run away at full speed".
I meant direct missions, not roundabout fight-avoidance missions.
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I generally only like themed missions, such as-
-noe mossies
-kamikaze d3a/b5n anti-cv, it's been years since i can recall a horde of b5ns dive bombing into a cv with screams of kamikazeeeee on 200.
-ju88s/stukas escorted by 109Es
-b17s escorted by p51s
stuff like that is fun whether the mission succeeds or not.
Yep, or in other words, missions with some thought behind them.
I've had some great fun either joining, or flying around, Filth's missions in the past. The big B-17 raids with an actual escort, going in at an altitude (10-15k) that's a good compromise between chance of overall success and chance of interception. I can be persuaded to join a mission like that very easily.
The missions that I will not fly, are the ones were there are random planes tossed into it, ALL loaded to the gills with bombs (I mean, really, Spitfires? Take the DT, if anything extra), that are going to head in one large clump on the deck somewhere.
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Simple, one word, SPIES
-BigBOBCH
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Missions...I like e'm
2 bases fighting, one has an overwhelming advantage...take four guys and kill gv hanger and the FH's. Gives your side 15 minutes to recuperate.
One base out in the middle of no where..take it and get one step closer to their zone base plus helps take pressure off your near by base thats being hammered.
NOE to a lightly defended base and take it. Sets strategic stage for a new area to fight in.
4 guys kill all ack and VH at a field and climb using the wagon wheel tactic, fun fun fun..Return home with kills when out of ammo, damaged or overwhelmed which surely is going to happen.
Heavily defended base, take everything out and clear town of GV's, send your own in while others help wipe sky clear of all bad guys. Send a couple to the nearest enemy base and hold them down while take is in progress.
Kill all ord and troops at all near by bases and put a stop to the hoard thats rolled 3-5 bases in your area. Hopefully it's not their zone.
Fighter sweeps between two fighting bases. Try to work your way behind their base and fight there for awhile. Helps your guys get a little closer. Once they are there use them to help cap and take the base.
Go bomber hunting. Kill everything that gets in your way, hard deck 7k. First one below is a loser.
Avoid mindless furballs
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The service ceiling of the B-17 is 35K.
No, 30K is not normal operations. B24s could not fly higher than 27K according to one report. B17s could barely fly at 30K but operationally did not as much as "some" on these forums claim.
The difference was the flexible design on the B-24, it flexed and warped too much at higher alts/speeds, and was dangerous to fly so high.
But I meant "take off this field, hit that field with intent on taking it" not "take off 200 miles behind enemy lines, go AFK 2 hours, come back in space, bomb with laser precision from orbit, and run away at full speed".
I meant direct missions, not roundabout fight-avoidance missions.
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You people got my other thread locked. Don't hijack this one too.
I'm just going to say BnZs that's like listing the service ceiling of the Ta152: Doesn't mean it can operate at that altitude, it's just written down on paper to impress folks that way.
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The service ceiling of the B-17 is 35K.
That cracks me up. I suspect you don't actually know what service ceiling is. And how difficult flying at altitudes above 30,000 feet actually is.
Maintaining altitude anywhere near service ceiling in the thirties or forties requires a high level of concentration by the pilots without an autopilot. There is no performance to spare. Maintaining a formation would be impossible. You are in coffin corner of the flight envelope, where the margin between critical mach and stall speed is very small.
Today's airplanes are air conditioned comfort. A B17 had the outside breeze blowing in. -70 degrees is darn common in the thirties. -70 with the wind blowing would make life as a waist gunner short and unpleasant. Right now, over Houston, the temperature at 34,000 is -54 F.
And we won't even discuss what running a radial engine at full power for several hours would do to it, especially trying to climb to high altitudes.
To imagine that the B17 regularly operated above 25,000 feet in large formations, heavily loaded is to be ignorant or just ignore the realities of such operations. All of the performance figures for best range and speed for the B17 are at 25,000 feet. That means performance dropped off above that altitude. And that is a brand new airplane with fresh motors. A few hundred hours of service and the airplane will not perform to book numbers anymore.
Most raids were in the high teens and low twenties for altitude.
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See Rule #4
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That's okay Dawger...you don't have to climb to 30K to shoot down those buffs...you can just shoot their wreckage as they're spiraling down...after all, that is the sort of thing you do, isn't it?
All the response this love muffinery deserves.
Yes....I am quite well known for shooting wreckage. In fact, I suspect 98.92 percent of every kill I ever got credit for was shooting wreckage. I've written extensively on proper techniques to employ when shooting wreckage.
And on the subject of service ceiling "love muffinery" why don't you explain service ceiling to us ignorant folk. I wait with bated breath.
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Yes....I am quite well known for shooting wreckage. In fact, I suspect 98.92 percent of every kill I ever got credit for was shooting wreckage. I've written extensively on proper techniques to employ when shooting wreckage.
And on the subject of service ceiling "love muffinery" why don't you explain service ceiling to us ignorant folk. I wait with bated breath.
*sigh*
It is the altitude at which the airplane can still produce a RoC of 100fpm at Vy and maximum continuous power, as opposed to the absolute ceiling. So what?
Got a problem with the buff modeling? Fine by me, I don't *like* 30K buffs, and the bombing from that alt is way too precise. Buffs, as modeled, are tool-shedding PITAs at any altitude. But they aren't violating any laws of physics or doing something unheard of in WWII.
And yeah, when you take an airplane out of the hangar, it flies like its brand spanking new, so what? You want to introduce random mechanical malfunctions to the game.
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I see you found the proper Wiki page.
Just for your edification, the service ceiling definition used to be 50 fpm in the era of prop driven aircraft. It changed with evolving certification standards designed for jets.
In turbocharged reciprocating engine aircraft the service ceiling is just a number produced in flight testing and never to be used again.
It is not a practical altitude for any purpose. It is very hard on the engines to get there, hard to stay there and overall performance sucks there. Performance peak at a lower altitude. In modern jets that isn't true, higher is better if you are light enough to get there and not decelerate in level flight. But last I checked the B17 wasn't a jet.
I don't wish for random malfunctions but some semblance of operational constraints on engines would be nice, similar to WEP. You can't just drive around full bore on piston engine airplanes at the highest possible altitude and not have them fail. Slinging a jug through the cowling after hammering on the motor for 30 minutes at full power would be a cool visual effect and not that unusual a result for abusing a radial engine.
I've popped cylinders off of Wasp engines by overboosting for as little as 3 minutes.
We already have rather stupid and unrealistic constraints on gear and flaps. It would seem some realistic engine operation limitations would be a welcome addition.
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The average MA sortie is 30 minutes or so. To be implemented in some way that would effect game-play, you would have to show that engine failure likely for a given engine when it is operated for that long at the MIL settings as modeled in AHII.
One good thing AHII does is the automatic WEP limit. Absolutely realistic engine control would actually make it more gamey, since everyone would be able to push their "new" engine to the brink every sortie, and take off with a "new" engine the next, consequence free.
I see you found the proper Wiki page.
Just for your edification, the service ceiling definition used to be 50 fpm in the era of prop driven aircraft. It changed with evolving certification standards designed for jets.
In turbocharged reciprocating engine aircraft the service ceiling is just a number produced in flight testing and never to be used again.
It is not a practical altitude for any purpose. It is very hard on the engines to get there, hard to stay there and overall performance sucks there. Performance peak at a lower altitude. In modern jets that isn't true, higher is better if you are light enough to get there and not decelerate in level flight. But last I checked the B17 wasn't a jet.
I don't wish for random malfunctions but some semblance of operational constraints on engines would be nice, similar to WEP. You can't just drive around full bore on piston engine airplanes at the highest possible altitude and not have them fail. Slinging a jug through the cowling after hammering on the motor for 30 minutes at full power would be a cool visual effect and not that unusual a result for abusing a radial engine.
I've popped cylinders off of Wasp engines by overboosting for as little as 3 minutes.
We already have rather stupid and unrealistic constraints on gear and flaps. It would seem some realistic engine operation limitations would be a welcome addition.
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Missions like Fugitive mentioned definitely bring out the best in AH2, "Missions, first and most importantly are suppose to be fun.... for everyone, friend and foe alike"... Fugitive. They even get better when run in an AvA arena pitting Axis vs. Allied, like the 4-22-09 Wednesday Night Mission Larry(as if thats his real name :noid) put together; http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,263056.0.html. Really sharpens the iron in my neophyte opine.
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Missions like other aspects of the game are Best when you overcome an equally opposing force. I love missions flown into a hotbed of enemy activity and when well planned each pilot has a target and resposibility. Fighter cover, Field hanger attack, town attack, and Troop deployment.
The MOM missions are great with massive forces on both sides so numbers don't matter as long as the opposition is strong.
Sunday myself and 420dog in two tanks took A-222 with no opposition. No fighters or GV's opposed us as we systematically took down the town and 420dog returned with troops. Not really a planned mission but not real exciting either. :(
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I dislike it when my screen freezes when we get so many in the air......... :rofl
I like looking at all the perty colors of the various skins............ :rofl
:devil