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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: hlbly on April 21, 2009, 07:39:37 AM

Title: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: hlbly on April 21, 2009, 07:39:37 AM
How do you beat a spit 16 in a 38j . co alt co e ?
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Bruv119 on April 21, 2009, 07:45:03 AM
you don't.


(if certain people are flying the 16)  ;)
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: hlbly on April 21, 2009, 07:46:45 AM
lol gotta be a way.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: The Fugitive on April 21, 2009, 07:55:18 AM
They are close in a lot of ways. The 38 will zoom better in the vert, but the spit climbs well, so that is a very small window to play in.

At first the 38 will out dive the spit, but the spit catch up because it can out run the 38 once you run out of dive room.

About the only thing the 38 does better is a spiraling climb into the torque of the spit. If you get someone dumb enough to follow you up in a spiraling rope like that, then hes dumb enough to kill in most way anyway  :)
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: hlbly on April 21, 2009, 07:57:37 AM
so a spiral climb to the left ?
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Mar on April 21, 2009, 11:08:55 AM
so a spiral climb to the left ?


The spixteen's torque is to the left, you need to go right.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Cajunn on April 21, 2009, 11:25:46 AM
And that's even a very hairy thing with a 16 on your tail, I have tried just about every plane in the set in practice missions, and the only planes I could get the out right advantage on a 16 was the very best of the turn rides in a co E co alt situation.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 21, 2009, 12:21:42 PM
Never fight any Spitfire (except the Mk XIV) at medium speeds, they will chew up a P-38 quite easily in that speed range.  Keep the fight fast and if you can't, take the fight really slow at near stall speed ranges.  Those clipped wings on the Mk XVI come at a price which is their low speed handling at near stall speeds.  Cloverleaf also works well at low/stall speeds against any of the Spitfires.



ack-ack
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Dawger on April 21, 2009, 12:58:31 PM
What's a cloverleaf? Film if possible. but a description will do.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: CAP1 on April 21, 2009, 01:24:45 PM
Never fight any Spitfire (except the Mk XIV) at medium speeds, they will chew up a P-38 quite easily in that speed range.  Keep the fight fast and if you can't, take the fight really slow at near stall speed ranges.  Those clipped wings on the Mk XVI come at a price which is their low speed handling at near stall speeds.  Cloverleaf also works well at low/stall speeds against any of the Spitfires.



ack-ack

i actually noticed that i had much much better low speed performance in the spit5 and 9, as opposed to the 16......that being said, i still have one helluva time with any of the spits vs me in a 38..unless i have an alt advantage to begin with.

<<S>>
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Fianna on April 21, 2009, 01:32:02 PM
Hope that the mkXVI is flown by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.... that's really your only chance.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Cajunn on April 21, 2009, 02:04:00 PM
i actually noticed that i had much much better low speed performance in the spit5 and 9, as opposed to the 16......that being said, i still have one helluva time with any of the spits vs me in a 38..unless i have an alt advantage to begin with.

<<S>>

And even with a E advantage A good spit stick will just use the E against you with good break turns and if your patients runs out you can get in a lot of trouble fast.

And that Spit9 isn't fast but it is a sweet ride, I have used that thing in BnZ and TnB rolls and it can be effective in both.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Kazaa on April 21, 2009, 02:06:13 PM
you don't.


(if certain people are flying the 16)  ;)

+1
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: CAP1 on April 21, 2009, 02:09:12 PM
And even with a E advantage A good spit stick will just use the E against you with good break turns and if your patients runs out you can get in a lot of trouble fast.

And that Spit9 isn't fast but it is a sweet ride, I have used that thing in BnZ and TnB rolls and it can be effective in both.

next to the zeek, i like the spit9 in furballs. just wish it had more ammo.

xbrit handed my arse to me a couple of times. every time, i had serious alt and speed advantages. he is fraking scary good in that spit.  :aok
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Guppy35 on April 21, 2009, 02:22:27 PM
Unless the 16 driver is a really good one, I seem to do ok against them really slow.  The clipped wing 16 tends to stall out before the 38G does.

Of course the G is a lighter bird then the J so that helps too
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Scotch on April 21, 2009, 02:34:09 PM
My first answer:
Beat him with your merge. You'll be fighting the pilot here and not the crutch of the spixteen.

---
You can loop and spiral climb better.
You handle better at low speeds.
I believe you can de-accelerate quicker.
You have bigger guns and can take more hits (pilot wounds aside).

I haven't done this match up under duel conditions in years. But I would probably try for the Michael Jordan hang time triple immel on the merge that only the 38 does so well, hammerhead at the very top, cut throttle and slide slip down into the spits turn as he's trying to nose low out of my attack. You should at least get a snapshot here that's enough to end a spit.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 21, 2009, 02:36:05 PM
My first answer:
Beat him with your merge. You'll be fighting the pilot here and not the crutch of the spixteen.

---
You can loop and spiral climb better.
You handle better at low speeds.
I believe you can de-accelerate quicker.
You have bigger guns and can take more hits (pilot wounds aside).

I haven't done this match up under duel conditions in years. But I would probably try for the Michael Jordan hang time triple immel on the merge that only the 38 does so well, hammerhead at the very top, cut throttle and slide slip down into the spits turn as he's trying to nose low out of my attack. You should at least get a snapshot here that's enough to end a spit.

Yep, that's what I would do as well.


ack-ack
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Dawger on April 21, 2009, 05:11:53 PM
I don't have a lot of trouble with 16's in the MA unless I let one get in the control zone. Then, even a monkey in a 16 can follow most everything long enough to get a damaging shot on you.

I've done a few duels with squad mates Spit 16 versus P38L and it boils done to the pilot with the Spit having a slight advantage when the pilot's are pretty much even skill in an anchored neutral fight.

P38J lacks the L's roll rate at high speed and I use roll to keep my fight in 3 dimensions at all times so that may be a difference maker.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Dawger on April 21, 2009, 05:13:35 PM
Oh...and I found some information on what the cloverleaf Ack-Ack is referring to probably is but I'd still like confirmation.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: HAMMERR on April 21, 2009, 07:16:50 PM
Can someone please spell out the process for a tripple immel in a p38?. What speeds. Alts flap settings Gs etc.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: StokesAk on April 21, 2009, 07:19:32 PM
Well try to get them to overshoot and if you can't extend out and bring them into a steep climbing turn will all your flaps out. They will stall out and you can just roll right down on them.
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 21, 2009, 07:50:55 PM
Can someone please spell out the process for a tripple immel in a p38?. What speeds. Alts flap settings Gs etc.

375mph IAS to 400mph IAS and pull into an Immelman and not tight as you don't want to bleed energy needlessly (3Gs is sufficient).  As you roll over the top and level out, pull into another one again, be light on the stick and don't pull any unnecessary Gs so you don't bleed energy needlessly.  As you level out over the top of the second one, you'll probably be around 150mph-125mph IAS and start to pull into your third Immelman.  As you start the 3rd one, deploy one notch of flaps to give you some lift to start bringing your nose up.  As you start the crest on the top part of your Immelman, deploy another notch of flaps.  As you come over the top, deploy one more notch of flaps (you'll be inverted at this point at very near a stall or the beginning of a stall), this will quickly bring your nose down over the top of the Immelman.  Congratulations, you just pulled a Triple Immelman. 

I have yet to see another plane that was able to match me in doing a Triple Immelman, those that have valiently tried always end up wallowing around in a stall either trying to pull the 2nd Immelman or in the process of trying to start the 3rd one.  Of course, as with all things in life, YMMV.


ack-ack
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: hlbly on April 22, 2009, 03:53:38 AM
thnx guys
Title: Re: 38j vs mk XVI
Post by: MachFly on April 23, 2009, 12:41:48 AM
How do you beat a spit 16 in a 38j . co alt co e ?

By being a better pilot than the guy who is in that spit
probably does not answer your question, but it always seemed to work for me.....well...most of the time  :).