Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sethipus on April 23, 2009, 06:19:39 PM
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For much of the last year I've been using a technique to kill planes that strafe my tanks. I am most often in the T34, and I have found this technique to be insanely good at killing a lot of fighter dweebs with nothing better to do than spray machine-gun and 20mm cannon rounds at my tanks. For the first few months I hardly told anyone about this technique except squadmates, and even then I never saw anyone else do it. In recent months I've been telling people about it, and still not seeing much uptake of the technique.
Recently I shared this technique with a bunch of tankers in the beta frame of the current Tunisia scenario, so I'm thinking some others are finally going to be doing it. I also recently sent film of this technique to some specific players whom I'd killed with it, and at least one of them, Strong10, has been doing it the last several days, and sending me excited PMs in game about how cool he thinks it is, and how many kills he's racked up with it.
Well, I want everyone to know about this. I may well reduce the number of kills I get with it once it becomes more generally understood, but that's OK with me. It will change the ground game to some small degree I hope, making it harder to get away with strafing tanks. I think this would be a good thing.
I am not talking about the technique of aiming just over the engine cowling of an incoming plane and firing an AP round into the engine or cockpit, killing the incoming plane. I do this technique as well, when I can, and it's very effective, and very satisfying.
This other technique is one I use when I know I will not be able to get my turret around in time to get a shot off at the incoming plane. It's also somewhat easier to get kills with, though shooting tank rounds into the engine block is pretty darn easy once you get the hang of it.
This technique is also often effective when the planes are coming in at too steep an angle to shoot at directly.
Ok, so now to the technique.
When you recognize that a plane is incoming to strafe you, turn your turret away from that plane. I mean exactly opposite of the plane's incoming path. As soon as the plane passes overhead, fire an HE round into the ground. The timing is not hard to get right, especially if your tank's engine is off, because you will hear a very pronounced doppler effect as the strafing plane passes overhead.
If you did it right, an HE round will be going off on the ground pretty much right under a plane that's usually no more than 20 feet or so off the ground. This will instantly kill most planes. Sometimes, when the angle isn't exactly right, you'll merely break a wing off or something, and they'll plow into the ground and die. On occasion I've merely lit a plane on fire, or smoked their engine, but these are fairly rare. By far the most common result is instant death.
This game has been around a long time, and I cannot claim that nobody else has ever done this. If so, then the technique has been invented independently multiple times. I invented it myself about a year or so ago having never seen it done before, or heard of it being done. Not having ever seen or heard of this being done before, I've thought of this as the Sethbag technique for killing strafing fighters, and I wanted to share it with everyone, so it becomes common practice for experienced tankers.
I've gotten very good at it. In tank runs with lots of planes eager to strafe me I've racked up as many as multiple dozen kills this way, or through a combination of this technique and direct-fire shots into the engine block.
Here are some film clips demonstrating this technique.
This first film demonstrates me blowing up a Bf 110 that strafes my tank. Notice that I see the plane coming from the commander's cupola position, so I know he's coming, and approximately from what angle. I switch to my gun, load up HE rounds, and take the shot as he passes overhead. It's not even perfectly underneath his plane, but he still blows up.
When viewing these clips, make sure to check the "Use recorded views" option, so you see what I was seeing as I did this.
t34 kills strafing 110 (http://leigh.org/seth/ah%20screenies/nice%20110%20ground%20HE%20killshot%20in%20t34.ahf)
This second film demonstrates a kill against a Spitfire strafing me from the side. Notice that I see the incoming plane, and watch him for a couple of seconds, so I know he's coming. You can see me rotating the turret around to approximately opposite the flight path of the incoming plane, and take the shot. Instant plane kill.
t34 kills Spitfire strafing from the side (http://leigh.org/seth/ah%20screenies/nice%20kill%20on%20cntl%20in%20t34%20vs%20spit.ahf)
A couple of comments. In addition to the doppler effect that gives away the timing of the plane passing overhead, if you have good headphones you can tell as you rotate your turret about when you're pointed the right direction, because the incoming airplane engine noise will go from coming more out of one side of the headphones, to coming out more or less balanced in both sides. That means the guy's straight behind you, and he's going to fly right over the spot your aiming at on the ground.
Remember to depress the muzzle all the way down, so you shoot into the ground very close to the tank.
This technique works in any type of tank, but it works the best in the T34, because the T34 turret rotates so quickly, much more quickly than any other tank's turret. If you're moving, however, if you get a good feel for what direction the gun needs to be pointing to get this shot off, you can just turn the tank, and then jump into the gunsight for the shot. This helps if you're in a tank with a very slow-traversing turret, such as the Tiger.
And now, here's one more film clip, but it's not using the techqnique outlined above. It was just a very good tank to plane kill that I wanted to kind of show off. Sue me. :devil
nice tank to IL-2 lead shot from main gun (http://leigh.org/seth/ah%20screenies/kill%20fbob%20good%20lead%20shot%20t34.ahf)
Btw, this technique, once mastered, leads to other really cool tank vs. plane killshots. The other day I saw a 109 K4 diving in to strafe an M3 from my side that was about to release troops. I aimed my T34 main gun at the ground near the M3 and selected HE. When the K4 passed over the M3 I fired, and killed the K4. Unfortunately for me, my round hit too close to the M3 and the killshooter effect killed my own tank too. But I've done this with other friendly tanks where I killed a guy strafing them, without killing myself.
Anyhow, there it is, now discuss. :rock
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hell, I'll try it out. sounds fun
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Seems kind of cheesey in a gamey way to me... But whatever...
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Seems kind of cheesey in a gamey way to me... But whatever...
That's what I thought.
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Seems kind of cheesey in a gamey way to me... But whatever...
Yes, it is. But then again, this is a game, so it's appropriate.
Guys, this isn't World War II. This is a game, using cartoon vehicles modeled after vehicles that participated in World War II.
In World War II the different sides didn't take bases by going to a nearby town, destroying every single building, and then planting explosives inside of a maproom.
In World War II most dogfighting did not take place within 50 feet of the ground or water, at 150 knots.
In World War II most fighters would not strafe enemy tanks with machine-guns and pass 10 feet overhead.
Yes, this is a game, which we play (there's that operative word) according to the mechanics and practices made practicable by the game engine.
In a game environment such as the one we have, tank and plane combat often, or even usually occur in massively unrealistic ways compared to World War II. Within that context, tanks in this game often come under strafing attack by fighters that have no realistic chance or damaging or destroying the tank (cannon planes can sometimes track a tank, and I've had a T34 paper mache turret knocked out by 30mm rounds from a 110 before). Within this game context, I am presenting a game-specific, not realistic to WWII ground combat means of defending oneself in a tank against airplanes.
If you don't like it, that's fine. Just keep strafing my tanks. :rock I'll be more than happy if you do.
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Over react much?
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Seems kind of cheesey in a gamey way to me... But whatever...
Not much... remember, you can only kill planes this way that are passing you carelessly at very low altitudes. Most of them are fighters hosing you with bullets in hope of getting the kill credit when someone finally really kills you.
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Not much... remember, you can only kill planes this way that are passing you carelessly at very low altitudes. Most of them are fighters hosing you with bullets in hope of getting the kill credit when someone finally really kills you.
Exactly. These guys pass like 10 feet over the top of your tank, and are doing nothing more than stealing the kill from the tank driver or bomb dropper (grr) who finally ends up destroying my tank. They deserve to die, and it's their own greed that makes this technique possible.
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Most of them are fighters hosing you with bullets in hope of getting the kill credit when someone finally really kills you.
Well, for the record, I find this to be cheesey and gamey also. Would be nice if HTC could change the way victories are assigned.
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Or you can just main gun the suckers.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/three110s.ahf
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Or you can just main gun the suckers.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/three110s.ahf
Exactly. Note that the direct-fire main gun technique was mentioned in the OP. As it happens, of the dozen or so airplane kills I got in the sortie these two films were taken from, about half of them I got firing rounds into the engine block, and the other half I got firing HE rounds into the ground. With experience, you recognize which technique to use and execute it.
The technique under discussion here is used when the "shoot them in the face with your main gun" technique won't work for whatever reason. The primary reasons for this are that you won't be able to get your turret around in time, or the strafer is coming in from a steep enough angle that you can't elevate the gun high enough, or perhaps because the guy knows not to fly straight into a 76mm gun, but hasn't figured out yet that it's also not a good idea to fly right over a 76mm gun pointing in the direction of his flight path.
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Well, for the record, I find this to be cheesey and gamey also. Would be nice if HTC could change the way victories are assigned.
+1 on that. I have to wonder how much tank strafing would go on if tank strafers never got credit for the kill? Probably still a fair bit, but I think a lot of guys are intentionally trying to take kill credit when they strafe.
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I feel a he ho'd with his tank whine coming soon. :rolleyes:
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Heh...looks fun I'll try it.
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Hmmmm.
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Seth,
Im kinda pissed off. I mean you were on our sqaud channel and didnt TELL US!!!! lol jk for those who think this is gamey they are probably the ones shooting through trees, gunna start using this especially against heavy cannon birds who get tracks way to easy :salute
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Yeah... kinda Quake-ish.
I like Grizz's way better anyways.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/grizztank.ahf
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gamey as hell. :aok
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I like Grizz's way better.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/grizztank.ahf
I have to admit that was an even harder shot than my IL-2 shot. Grizz took down that spit at 1000 yards, my IL-2 was only 800 or so away when I fired. Not to mention the Spit was a smaller target, and was flying more directly perpendicular to the tank. It was a great plane take-down, that's for sure.
A week or two ago I took down a B-25H that was flying from left to right probably 800-1000 yards away. I do that every few weeks or so it seems. I once took out Banshee5 who had just taken off in a P-40 and was climbing out when I fired my 76mm gun at max elevation from the other end of the runway and took him out when he was at least a couple hundred feet off the ground.
In fact, here's a pic of that event. :rock
(http://leigh.org/seth/ah%20screenies/t34%20round%20going%20through%20p40%20elevator.jpg)
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:furious
Seth............I thought your idea was supposed to stay in house!o!
That was a couple of freakish main gun shots by you and Grizz . Have never even attempted
those shots before. Now I'll spend the next year trying to duplicate to no avail!!!!!
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I have read where ships would use the big guns to create a plume of water in hopes of attacking planes would hit it.
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OMG what an awful P40 skin. Who ever made it should be taken out back and shot. :furious
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OMG what an awful P40 skin. Who ever made it should be taken out back and shot. :furious
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6876/wtfh.gif)
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My vote? Gamey, real Gamey. But now at least there can be some good battles between the Stuka-Lancs and the skip-shooting T-34s.
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Put a smoke round in him and blind him to death.
Actually, I can see how an HE into the ground could wk. Have not watched the films yet.
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Or, if your turreted in a wirble, find a tree, drive round and round it, you'd be surprised how many ppl will fly into that tree to try and kill you. I often get caught out having just upped to defend a base when it gets captured and end up stuck in no mans land.
The number of ppl who then try and strafe you down is amazing - so, for fun, I thought instead of towering out, I'd see how many I could kill till I died. Got turreted and kept going, shooting with only pintle gun. Then I found a single tree all on its own, so thought I'd see if I could get anyone to hit it.
*Caution - should only be done for fun when your in no mans land and the base/town is in enemy hands lol....*
:D
Wurzel
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just main gun him from 800-1000yrd and end the story
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Not much... remember, you can only kill planes this way that are passing you carelessly at very low altitudes. Most of them are fighters hosing you with bullets in hope of getting the kill credit when someone finally really kills you.
and about half the time they'll auger anyway :D :D
(had about 5-6 il2's and b25's auger into my turreted tiger the other day)
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-Wright in his note book-
"Confounded, 5 years and someone just mentions this...how dare you."
:rock
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I do this occasionally when some dweeb with .50's is strafing my tank trying to steal the kill from some tanker or bomb guy. It reminds me of the days when you could up a lanc on a vulched runway and drop the 4k nuke and blast a couple vulchers at a time. Same principle. Now that more people are doing this maybe you wont have spits blowing all their ammo on a tank trying to steal the kill.
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Seems kind of cheesey in a gamey way to me... But whatever...
Actually, if I remember correctly, Japanese ships would fire their big guns at the water under incoming torpedo bombers, hoping to catch them with a big splash that would knock them out of the air.
It's not exactly the same, but kind of the same concept.
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I will try it the very next chance I get, :D butI don't GV too much.
:aok
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Seems kind of cheesey in a gamey way to me... But whatever...
I'd say less CHEESY than turning down graphics or disabling skins!! :aok or using the natural lag in game as an advantage, Not to mention less CHEESY than using GVs when you know smoke has NO effect on your lame tired system!!
I think using HE rounds to kill planes is very funny and charming, and I say-----> WTFG :aok
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Killing planes with the main gun is awesome wether you gettem comin or goin ill have to try that technique the best ive done however was hitting a spit i think 2.5 out with the main gun was a loooong time ago and a really lucky shot lol :D :salute
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as a dedicated GVer, I'll use every trick I can. :aok
and I might feel bad about the gameyness, but balances out other the gamey things like bumping into a windmill turning my tank totally onto its turret, a tank rocking side-to-side endlessly, and HE detonating when it hits shrubs but richorchets off of armor.
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I have read where ships would use the big guns to create a plume of water in hopes of attacking planes would hit it.
I shot down a Spitfire Mk XVI that way in a B-25H. He overshot me on the deck and as he flew past, I fired my 75mm at him. It went low, passing below the Spitfire, exploding right in front of it. Since we were both on the deck, probably no higher than 50ft, the Spitfire got caught in the splash damage and blew up.
There is also a well known story of a P-38 during World War II that dropped a bomb in the water in front of a Zero that was just finishing taking off, killing it.
As for the ship thing, I believe the Bismark was trying that against the attack Swordfish planes but didn't get any kills.
ack-ack
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I was able to knock out 14 kills with panzer main gun, after being tracked by IL2's, I was on a hill top and they didn't have the patience to climb out. Knits just continued to fly strait in and 75 mm to the propeller hub poof. I did get bigpat a couple of times as he tried to climb out, just like shooting flying geese with a 30.06 good sport.