Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: _vic_ on May 01, 2009, 10:14:26 AM
-
I just got an email from NaturalPoint, the makers of TrackIR. Apparently the TrackIR 5 is out now... TrackIR 4 and 3 (with vector expansion) owners can upgrade to the new 5.0 software...
My question. Who's going to be brave enough to take the plunge first and report back to us? :devil
Tim
-
Since my current TIR is working really well, I'm going to wait for TIR 5.0 FINAL and will probably not try TIR 5.0 BETA 01 as they are offering at this time.
-
What advantages is it supposed to have over the old software? TIR 4 is pretty sweet. They didn't email me....
-
Here is some text that I clipped out of the email that came in today...
...
More Precision
With a 640 x 480 sensor resolution, TrackIR 5 has triple the number of pixels as a TrackIR 4, resulting in radically more precise tracking and further tracking distances. Combined with NaturalPoint's new Precision Grayscale analysis, it achieves a reporting resolution of 96,000 x 72,000. The result is a potent 10-fold increase in effective resolution over TrackIR 4. See a video demonstration of Precision Grayscale on the Product Comparison page.
More Freedom
TrackIR 5's 51.7° field of view is an increase of more than 12% over TrackIR 4. Enjoy more trackable real estate as you move around as much as you need to. Like to sit close to your monitor? Track a fuller range of head motion from up close. Want to keep your distance? Leverage the higher resolution with the wider field of view and enjoy more room than you'll know what to do with at larger distances. With an effective resolution of 1850 subpixels per horizontal field of view degree, you'll still enjoy tremendous tracking fidelity.
More Reliability
TrackIR 5's intelligent design aims to reduce damage from wear and tear with a magnetically attached base and USB cable anchor. The newly designed software introduces NaturalPoint's Spurious Marker Rejection to help filter out unwanted light sources in hostile conditions
...
Those bastages! Now I have to save up even *more* of my pennies for new hardware! ;)
-
The 5 beta is a little raw yet. The biggest issue is there is no way (that I know of) to import your TIR4 profiles into it. The format is considerably different. You'd have to redesign your profile. There are some functions that don't quite work right yet as well. It's a very nice interface and will definitely be worth it when it's done. Once they get the bugs ironed out you will definitely want to upgrade to it.
I'm talking about the software here of course, not the TrackIR5 itself which I have not put my hands on. From what Bino has outlined, it may be worth the extra $50 over TrackIR4. Sad thing is, I payed $180 for my TrackIR4 some years back. Oh well. I payed $500 for a 500MB hard drive too once upon a time. That's the way it goes in the world of computers.
-
This time I think I will let someone else be the first to jump. :devil
-
Well, good news is you can use the TIR-5 software with your TIR-4 (vector enabled) hardware. No reason to upgrade hardware, really. For AH2, I don't see the extra resolution of the new TIR hardware making any difference. And the software seems to be an upgrade to the config editor, again nothing you really need unless you have the new hardware or are one of those "I gotta be first to get this new widget no matter the cost or if I really need it."
-
I was really hoping they would come out with a wireless version of the track clip pro that ran on a AAA battery or something.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ&fmt=22
-
I'll give the beta a try when I get my week off - whats it gonna hurt lol ;) :D
Wurzel
-
I just ordered version 5 today. I may have some problems with setup since I us a 50" plasma monitor and am 6 to 8 feet back from the screen. The online manual says ideal is around 2 feet and no more than 4 feet. Any suggestions?
-
I just ordered version 5 today. I may have some problems with setup since I us a 50" plasma monitor and am 6 to 8 feet back from the screen. The online manual says ideal is around 2 feet and no more than 4 feet. Any suggestions?
You could put the camera in front of you below the screen on a tripod. I would think this might cause some masking issues when looking up. Another option is to place it behind you and wear your hat like a gangsta'. If you do this you'll need to go to your profile and "invert" the axis (there's a check box for each axis).
I've downloaded the 5 beta and will try it out when I have time. It's easy to revert to .037 if there are too many problems. Still not sure how 5.0 could improve the TIR4 though. It doesn't look like there are any functional changes (a'la the axis changes back in .029) but we'll see. I'm also not sure that upgrading from TIR4 to TIR5 cameras would be worth it though as I don't have any problems with the FOV and TIR4 seems more than accurate enough. I think I'll probably wait until someone else is willing to "take one for the team" before forking over the cash.
Just a final note...I'm really encouraged by the claimed improvements (resolution and 6DOF) of the new 3d devices....I may be willing to jump on one of them soon.
-
I have no complaints whatsoever on my TrackIR 4 so do not see a reason to upgrade or anything. That's not saying I would not reconsider after having tried TrackIR 5 though. At this point I will not upgrade. As a new customer though I see no reason why you should not get TrackIR 5.
-
I have no complaints whatsoever on my TrackIR 4 so do not see a reason to upgrade or anything. That's not saying I would not reconsider after having tried TrackIR 5 though. At this point I will not upgrade. As a new customer though I see no reason why you should not get TrackIR 5.
this.
-
I highly recommend anyone who has TrackIR (of any flavor) and cares about the future of it to go to the TrackIR 5 forum (http://forum.naturalpoint.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=60&page=1) and offer a reasonable and respectful perspective on the TrackIR5 software. This is your chance to help them get it right while it's in beta. You should first load up TrackIR5 first and play with it of course.
I don't think you want me as your sole spokesman.
-
DOnt know if I didnt find the issue,but in TIR4,you could pause it,THEN CENTER IT..
With 5,it does not seem as if I can center AFTER I pause it..This to me is a BIG issue that I hope they work out.. :salute
-
I was the first person in the world to receive the new Tr5... :)
Its got a much better stand. Its response seems smoother and I like where they are going with the software.
Lew
-
Still relatively new with the whole TrackIR (V4) but when I tried the 5 software (I know, it's beta) it seemed jumpy and too sensitive. I tried toning down the curves but it did not seem to help. Of course, the relative newbness to the whole setup may be contributing to the issues, but going back to the older software worked for me. Of course, as always, YMMV. I'll wait for it to come out of beta before I try again.
-
The only thing that intrigues me is the improved field of view,and it's supposed improvement in eliminating hostile light sources.I have a window behind me that catches a lot of light and I can't use my TrackIR 4 during the afternoon when it's sunny.Other than that,I'm happy with my TrackIR 4.
I don't see myself upgrading anytime soon.I'd probably just replace my unit with another TrackIR 4 if it broke.
-
Received and installed 5 last night. Screwed around some, offline.
I can see already that, like rudder pedals, it will take at least a month to get used to. However, just like rudder pedals, I can see that I will also probably reach the "how did I live without this?" point with the TIR.
I have a couple questions for veteran users of previous versions, though:
1. Has anyone created any AH specific profiles with the 5 software, yet?
2. Im running into the following "hitches" when trying to create my own:
a. Leaning left and right - this works just fine when you are looking ahead - however when I turn to look at my six, the inputs are reversed. In other words, to lean right when I am facing forward, I lean right. To lean right when I can facing rearward, I must lean left. Can this be fixed?
b. Is it possible for me to create "stop points" where my view can not progress any further? For example, if I turn my head to look at my six, can I program a profile where by 180 degrees is the maximum amount of rotation the camera will allow? I want to avoid "spinning through" my desired point of view.
c. Rear views. Oh boy. So the set views in AH are awesome. By comparison, I get a whole face full of headrest with the TIR. Is there any way I can program the software to automatically move the vantage point away from the seat and to one side or the other when looking behind, as one would with F10 and the standard AH views?
Plenty of other little hurdles and I think that a large time investment will be required when tweaking everything but, once its set up, I am positive that this hardware will prove to be nothing short of awesome.
-
Try this:
1. In your TIR 5 profile, kill (uncheck) true view and DO NOT check the TIR option in AH (preferences/view options)
a. That should solve your moving right and looking left problem when looking back
2. As far as the getting too much rotation when you look aft, you can tweak your "balls" in the TIR set up profile. Try 0,0 for the center; 10,4 for #1; 10.4, 6.9 for #2; 18.9, 3.4 for #3; and 29.6, 0.3 for #4 (in the yaw mode).
3. I have found that killing the roll mode is advantageous. Makes things more stable for me.
4. Also, I had trouble saving the profiles but learned that once I had a new one set up, the system would ask for a save if I just clicked on another profile...ie, before it would switch it would ask....
Hope this helps
-
Received and installed 5 last night. Screwed around some, offline.
I can see already that, like rudder pedals, it will take at least a month to get used to. However, just like rudder pedals, I can see that I will also probably reach the "how did I live without this?" point with the TIR.
I have a couple questions for veteran users of previous versions, though:
1. Has anyone created any AH specific profiles with the 5 software, yet?
2. Im running into the following "hitches" when trying to create my own:
a. Leaning left and right - this works just fine when you are looking ahead - however when I turn to look at my six, the inputs are reversed. In other words, to lean right when I am facing forward, I lean right. To lean right when I can facing rearward, I must lean left. Can this be fixed?
b. Is it possible for me to create "stop points" where my view can not progress any further? For example, if I turn my head to look at my six, can I program a profile where by 180 degrees is the maximum amount of rotation the camera will allow? I want to avoid "spinning through" my desired point of view.
c. Rear views. Oh boy. So the set views in AH are awesome. By comparison, I get a whole face full of headrest with the TIR. Is there any way I can program the software to automatically move the vantage point away from the seat and to one side or the other when looking behind, as one would with F10 and the standard AH views?
Plenty of other little hurdles and I think that a large time investment will be required when tweaking everything but, once its set up, I am positive that this hardware will prove to be nothing short of awesome.
a. Zoomie is right about TrueView and TIR option. That should fix the problem.
b. I'm not really sure what the problem is that you're having because (unless this is a new feature of V5) the view will only go 180 degrees from where you center it. This is true in the pitch, roll and yaw planes and is actually one of the things I'd like to see changed. For instance, I'll be following an NME in the horizontal plane as he begins to overshoot. In RL, you can actually see past your tail. By that I mean if you're watching a guy in this overshooting scenario by looking left over your left shoulder you can actually watch him pass from the left side of your plane to the right but in TIR the view stops at exactly your six. Same is true in a looping flight, you follow him up on your canopy but when you reach 90 deg up the view stops. I'd like it if they'd let the view go an additional 20 to 30 degrees. If you feel you're "spinning through" I think you're just saying that you're overshooting the line of sight you want. If so, try reducing the overall values of your curves down. There is (at least in TIR V4) a button that allows you to shift the entire curve up and down. That will change the sensitivity without changing the relationship of your chosen profile points.
c. The trick here is to lean a bit forward and down and then hit the center button. That "fools" TIR into thinking that you've moved your head back and so puts your in-game head towards the back of the cockpit. When you turn to check six it then thinks your in-game head is now toward the front of the cockpit (and away from the headrest) so you can see more clearly around the sides.
-
Ok, "A" worked - thanks. Rear view now mimics instead of mirrors head movement.
"B" must be a new feature of TIR5 because I can yaw all the way around from front to left to rear to right and back to front by simply turning my head left. By the same token, my pitch does not stop at 90 degrees but can progress as far as I want it to, depending on the settings.
I did run into an interesting issue last night, though, that I didnt have the first night. My pitch up actually *would* stop as you as describing - at about 70 degrees. The TIR software showed (I think) that the camera couldnt see the LED's after that. Very strange. Ill have to screw around with it.
In any event - flew a couple sorties at dweeb lake in the DA and, after getting a couple Tempests to come down from 20,000ft, I made two observations;
1.) My SA sucks. That will change. I think Ill have to change my pitch settings, too, because I'd like it to match my yaw settings in terms of input = view.
2.) My concept of 3D space has increased ten fold. While the actual visible sky might suffer (6 view), in situations like a rolling scissors, where position, orientation and speed must be calculated accurately, the TIR is hugely superior to the keypad.
I dont even need to mention the instantaneous benefit of having your hand on the throttle 100% of the time.
<--- Happy customer who needs to do some tweaking.
-
...
There is (at least in TIR V4) a button that allows you to shift the entire curve up and down. That will change the sensitivity without changing the relationship of your chosen profile points.
Unfortunately, this feature has been done away with in TIR5. I complained about it and Seth told me he was going to run this by the developers and see what they can do. His suggestion was to allow you to draw a box around any/all of the curve edit points so that you can drag them up or down to shift the curve as you describe. I hope this feature makes it into production.
-
Man, if the TIR5 software allows you to rotate your head past the 180* point I may have to download it. One of the most annoying things is watching someone go over me and be stopped at the full up point, and have to re-adjust my head! In real life I can look slightly behind me by tilting my head back the whole way, but with the TIR4 software I can't. (unless there's a setting I'm unaware of).
Also, those that are having trouble with 6 views may want to adjust your profiles. TIR allows for beautiful 6 views, that are much more flexible than the snap views.
EX F4U1A (not the best you can get, just a quick glance!)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/ahss0-1.jpg)
P51D
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/ahss1-2.jpg)
-
I get better and easier 6 views using the 5 software than I did with the 4. I was able to get good 6 views after a while of tweaking on the 4 but the new software just gives me a bit of a better angle and with less head/body movement now. I really like this new software really.
-
Agreed Bubi, if this new software package allow views beyond the 180 degree arc (90 deg up/down) that alone would make it worth downloading. As long as nothing else is messed up, that is. :)
-
motherland do you mind sharing your profile, thats better then anything I can get in the hog...
-
Ive just came accross Track R, how would you say using it is like? easy to set up?
-
motherland do you mind sharing your profile, thats better then anything I can get in the hog...
Depends, how much is it worth to ya?
:D
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d1ad73b54e5c24c836df4e8dca141969e04e75f6e8ebb871
It's really sensitive, I like having a wide range of motion for little movement of my head.
I've got the Track Clip Pro so you may have to adjust some things. The hotkeys are down arrow=center, up arrow=pause, left arrow=sensitive mode (or whatever it's called). Run in sensitive mode if you don't already, you'll have to hold your head very still but IMO it's well worth the flexibility. The non axis controls are very sensitive as well for maneuvering around those pesky canopy struts in the 109.
Also not that those views are not the simple result of turning my head, you have to lean forward and the way you want to look slightly, as you would if you wanted to look behind you around an obstruction IRL.
Ive just came accross Track R, how would you say using it is like? easy to set up?
You may not like it at first. If you've made the transition from twisty stick to rudder pedals before, it's kinda like that, although IMO it's more intuitive, though to others it's more difficult. You're SA will be terrible for the first month or so while you get used to it and get your profile set up. After that you won't be able to fly without it. Best thing ever for flight sims beside the joystick IMO.
-
You may not like it at first. If you've made the transition from twisty stick to rudder pedals before, it's kinda like that, although IMO it's more intuitive, though to others it's more difficult. You're SA will be terrible for the first month or so while you get used to it and get your profile set up. After that you won't be able to fly without it. Best thing ever for flight sims beside the joystick IMO.
(http://hem.bredband.net/turnik/icons/icon_stupid.gif)
Could not agree more, TrackIR is the (http://hem.bredband.net/turnik/icons/icon_banana.gif) !
-
Thank you very much, highly recommended :aok :salute
-
much better overall but still have a big issue with stuff getting lost in 6. Seems like I get view out of whack under stress and cant reorient. Frustrating since losing view is a basic you get past very early and all of a sudden i'm losing fights because I'm losing views....
-
much better overall but still have a big issue with stuff getting lost in 6. Seems like I get view out of whack under stress and cant reorient. Frustrating since losing view is a basic you get past very early and all of a sudden i'm losing fights because I'm losing views....
Maybe you just need more time to get used to it? I still have occasional problems with certain views (like what I mentioned in my original post), but I don't really have many issues with 6 views. It's certainly a lot better than the snap views.
-
Had my 4 for a couple weeks and starting to get used to it. My hit % took a "hit" but that too is coming around.
I tried the 5 software for a couple of days and no thank you :rolleyes:. Went back to the 4 software with modded AH2 profiles that i found linked on this site and much better ... smoother.
Things i'm sure will come about after more use:
Flying into the ground while looking up at a target. That view sure looks like I've got space until I move back forward ... oops!
Hit %. I use the dedicated forward view arrangement mentioned a couple of times on threads in here. All the difference in the world IMHO.
The 6 view. I'm dancin around in my chair trying to get a view. My son says it looks like I have palsy.
Have not gotten to the point of where I say, "boy, I wish I had this all along". I have no doubt that'll be coming soon, too.
-
much better overall but still have a big issue with stuff getting lost in 6. Seems like I get view out of whack under stress and cant reorient. Frustrating since losing view is a basic you get past very early and all of a sudden i'm losing fights because I'm losing views....
First, make sure that your distance from the camera is set to give you the maximum field of view. If you're too close then the FOV is relatively small, sitting back further from the camera (or moving the camera back) means you have less of a tendancy for your head to move out of the FOV. Next, my yaw profile curves up fairly dramatically, it looks like a bowl. The greater movement at the 180 position makes it a bit easier since you don't have to move your head as much towards the six o'clock position. I'm just guessing but I probably move my head about 10 degrees to see the first 90 degrees of in-game head movement. The next 5 degrees give me the next 90 degrees. The other trick is to lean forward a bit when centering. That said, there is a disadvantage to using TIR with some airplanes like the F4u series, 109E/F, and to a degree the F6F. To me, the rear view available using regular the regular AH coolie hat is actually better than with TIR. It takes quite a bit of practice to figure out where exactly you need to move your head to check six with these planes.
-
thanks Mace, I'll double check all that.
-
I just ordered version 5 today. I may have some problems with setup since I us a 50" plasma monitor and am 6 to 8 feet back from the screen. The online manual says ideal is around 2 feet and no more than 4 feet. Any suggestions?
I have a speaker, for my 5.1 right behind my keyboard and set the unt on top of it. Satndard hieght desk and about 6 inches above that and about 2 feet back.
works better than on top of monitor. no masking issue and my body blocks out any light behind me, which can cause problems when the door is opened, et,
-
if you have yet to try it. run trackir without the panning movement. *disable X,Y,Z.
as you look around your views snap to good 6 and high 6 head positions. it wont do it when x,y,z are enabled.
i am running trackir 5.0 with just yaw and pitch and it seems like the ideal way to look around, part keypad part mouselook. also, i don't like the proclip at all. the symmetrically oriented hat reflectors seem to register better with the camera at off angles.
edit:
i setup my scaling with a flat line so the rotation speed never changes. when i reach 27 degrees of movement i'll be looking 180 degrees which is most comfortable for me.
also want to add my joystick scaling is 80% across the board, because a curved scale is just wierd.
to get an over the nose look you can hold LookForward and pitch your head up to pan up.
-
any idea on how long it may take for the final version to come out?
-
1.) Can I use a TIR4 profile with TIR5?
2.) Has anyone made a decent TIR5 profile yet?
-
Well, looks like I'm going to have to get one of these gizmos...
Sounds like an awesome deal... Should'a bought one before now...
Ordering it right now!
RC
-
1.) Can I use a TIR4 profile with TIR5?
2.) Has anyone made a decent TIR5 profile yet?
Beta 4 is out and translates profiles as well as eliminating a lot of other issues. Seems to be pretty good...
-
Beta 4 is out and translates profiles as well as eliminating a lot of other issues. Seems to be pretty good...
Thanks. Will give it a go.
-
After much discussion with the techs at NaturalPoint, I decided to plop down $148 for the TrackIR 5 hardware. I am also running TIR5 Beta 4 software as well.
I must tell you honestly that this is a HUGE upgrade over TIR4. Much more than I thought. The primary difference between TIR5 and TIR4 is "increased resolution." I really scoffed at that and really thought it was nothing but marketing hype. I was so wrong. Turns out, the great work Mace has done building a TIR4 profile that makes TIR4 so much more responsive than it is with the default profile essentially was an effort to overcome a lack of resolution. He may not even have realized that. I certainly didn't. With TIR5, because there is greater resolution, there is much more responsiveness, but it is also much much smoother as a result too. I was really amazed right away. In fact, I loaded Mace's profile (TIR5 now allows TIR4 profile import) and it was unusable. The response is SO fast that it is impossible to control. That's because the resolution of TIR5 is so much higher that the view just jumps all over the place! The default TIR5 profile is every bit as responsive as the one Mace did for TIR4 because the hardware is just that much more precise. You'd have to experience what I'm saying to really understand. Within fifteen minutes, I was able to get the profile adjusted for AH in such a way as I have never experienced. I even left the "Roll" axis enabled which allows me to look around the tail better. Many of us have left that axis disabled because it caused so much confusion. With TIR5 however, the movement is so easy to control and natural feeling that the roll axis is just as natural as the other axes.
Personally, I'm loving this thing and am glad I got it.
-
1.) Can I use a TIR4 profile with TIR5?
2.) Has anyone made a decent TIR5 profile yet?
I personally don't see any reason to use the TIR5 software with TIR4 hardware. The interface is very different and prettier (it that's important to you) but I can't imagine how it would make your TIR4 work any better. I decided not to use the new software with my TIR4 because the translation is not exact and you still need to do a little tweaking of your profile when you're done. After all that, you basically have the same functionality as before so what's the point? If having the latest software is important to you then you may feel it is worth it. I don't. MHO
-
Oh man!!! Got mine (TIR5) about a week ago... LOL!!! Its almost like cheatin!!!
Played offline for a few days to get used to it... First action on wednesday...
Holy Smokes, I could clearly SEE, that my first kill didn't have TIR... Could see
him twisting his plane trying to find me, after he lost vis on me... :t LOL!!
It makes the game feel completely different... More natural!!!
If you don't have one, YA GOTTA GET ONE!!!
RC
-
Ive had TIR5 now for a few days and I love it when Im on someones six but I cant get a good 6 view i mostly see headrest. I mostly fly the K-4 and now I cant see behind me when climbing to see when the chasing plane stalls. Does anyone have a TIR5 profile set up??? Ive played with the settings but Ive only made it worse.
-
Ive had TIR5 now for a few days and I love it when Im on someones six but I cant get a good 6 view i mostly see headrest.
Did you move your head forward (towards the screen in RL and your gunsight in game) when centering the TIR?
-
Yes when I centered I moved closer and a little lower than I normaly sit. This worked out great for all views but 6. When I look back Im to close to the headrest.
-
Yes when I centered I moved closer and a little lower than I normaly sit. This worked out great for all views but 6. When I look back Im to close to the headrest.
Move your head side to side.
-
LOL I do but the view is much better without TIR. I know the view can be better just dont know how!
-
I know the view can be better just dont know how!
Ditch that 109 and fly the 190 instead. :aok
-
Well I tried a profile I found here last night I guess it was for TIR4 cause it made mine go crazy. I messed with stuff for several hours finally got it to where if i leaned back in my chair and leaned to my side I had a ok view. Even tried other planes once some one is on my six Im dead because I have no idea wgere they are. Wish I could figure it out.
-
Just got my TrackIR 5 back and boy was I surprised. It went absolutely crazy. Took me a while to figure out the problem. I hope none of you has a Christmas tree with lights and hanging garland with blinking lights behind you. After unplugging everything it worked perfect. Only problem I have now is that I have to wait for my wife and daughter to go to bed so I can turn them off.
-
You can adjust the sensitivity to background lights for the TrackIR. If you don't have the TrackClip I'd recommend it as it is active IR and allow you to filter out most if not all background light.
-
Ok I finally got a 6 view I can live with!! But damn I cant fly or shoot with this thing right now!!! I collided with 5 sets of buffs augered at lest 4 times and missed perfect shots. Im in a strange place now because I dont like flying without TIR and I cat fly with it lol.
-
It was like that for me for about 2 months and then it all came together. You just have to be patient, it takes some time to adjust.
-
Wagger, sorry, but that made me laugh - probably cos I'd not even considered that one :D
I'madot, its as vortex said, it takes a while to get used to it - the amount of movement we unconsciously make when flying is made apparent with trackir, and its suprising how much of it there is lol....you'll get there mate, just need to persevere.
:salute
Wurzel (biggest help I found was removing hat views initially, then using them together with trackir once used to it).
-
red wine + track IR5 is comedy gold :old:
-
:lol
-
question here guys. I M about to order the trakir 5. now i have never used anything like this before. so do i need any thing else and by that do i mean does it come with ever ting i need or should i get some additional part that i dont know about
semp
-
question here guys. I M about to order the trakir 5. now i have never used anything like this before. so do i need any thing else and by that do i mean does it come with ever ting i need or should i get some additional part that i dont know about
semp
a baseball cap for the hat trackclip, or a headset for the trackclip pro. i prefer the track clip pro. you can buy trackir5 with or without the trackclip pro bundled.