Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MachFly on May 09, 2009, 11:44:54 PM
-
A few days ago TBone posted a mission involving Spitfire mk I and Hurricane mkI. There were 9 people in a hurri and only 2 in a spit.
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/122/15689474.png)
Why?
I never actually flown Hurri in combat but from what I heard spitfire is better (historically as least). During the Battle of Britain Spitfires would fight the 109s, and Hurricanes would go after the bombers.
-
The Hurri I is slower than molasses but boy can it turn. And I haven't really looked into this, it's just my impression, but you seem to be able to push more negative Gs in the Hurri I before the engine cuts out than you can in the Spit I. One seems to get almost a whole negative G out of the Hurri I, and just a fraction of a G out of the Spit, so in some ways the Hurri I is easier to fly.
-
The Hurri I is slower than molasses but boy can it turn. And I haven't really looked into this, it's just my impression, but you seem to be able to push more negative Gs in the Hurri I before the engine cuts out than you can in the Spit I. One seems to get almost a whole negative G out of the Hurri I, and just a fraction of a G out of the Spit, so in some ways the Hurri I is easier to fly.
I've never had issues with Negative G's in either. I dunno what to tell you. They're both excellent craft and I'd still love to see a Schatzi vs Banshee7 duel in Hurry 1's.
-
so in some ways the Hurri I is easier to fly.
In all ways the Hurri I is easier to fly than the Spit I. Most notably, the Hurri I turns better than any other plane except the A6M2 (and they're close), and it doesn't have that weird unrecoverable inverted spin that the Spit I has.
- oldman
-
Hurricanes are over-modeled. Roll rate noticably slower in the real deal. In the real world, there were major benefits to flying a spitfire vs a hurricane. In AH the hurr trumps all.
-
Well, in real life, the enemy was the 109, and the difference between life and death there would boil down to speed. The Spit has about the same speed, while the Hurry is too slow.
-
Small sample size maybe?
Who knows why people fly one plane in any given mission over the other. Friends they see in one craft, general independent random selection coincidence, etc. I'd say the Spit1 and Hurri1 are about equally popular in AH, nowhere near the 4.5:1 ratio portrayed in the screenshot.
The Hurri1 is noncompetitive against almost everything in the planeset, assuming a correctly flown planeset. I would estimate it gets at least 30% of its usage from people who ask "What's the best turner?" and are directed to it.
The Spit1, although also very noncompetitive, has a slightly larger dedicated flier contingent (spit dweebs almost have a union) and it at least can compete against some other early war craft in climb and speed (certainly not roll!).
You're absolutely right about how the Hurri and Spit were generally used in the Battle of Britain, although Hurri's weren't "bomber only", they actually did pretty well against the 109's when vectored that way.
-
Small sample size maybe?
Who knows why people fly one plane in any given mission over the other. Friends they see in one craft, general independent random selection coincidence, etc. I'd say the Spit1 and Hurri1 are about equally popular in AH, nowhere near the 4.5:1 ratio portrayed in the screenshot.
Total 2008 LW arena numbers:
Hurricane I
6567 kills, 16608 deaths, K/D 0,4
Spitfire I
4120 kills, 16936 deaths, K/D 0,24
In my opinion the reason why the Hurri is more popular and more "successful" is not the slight difference in turning radius. Spit I still outturns almost everything else with ease while being faster than the Hurri. It's the horrible rate of roll. That's a decisive diadvantage for a plane still being so slow that it's survival depends on being able to evade quickly.
I think that's the same reason while the 109E is being used even less than the Hurri I too.
-
The spit1 guns are all over the wing, while hurri1 has very tightly grouped guns.
The hurri1 had weird unrecoverable inverted flat spin already in AH1 and it get more common in AH2.
Good old HMk1 is a attitude plane.
-
You probably wouldn't take the hurr1 (given the choice of that or spit1) if it were properly modeled. It and the 110C are both quite overmodeled in this game, to the point that if they flew like this in real life we'd be seeing Hurr16s and 110K4s instead of spits/109s.
-
You probably wouldn't take the hurr1 (given the choice of that or spit1) if it were properly modeled. It and the 110C are both quite overmodeled in this game, to the point that if they flew like this in real life we'd be seeing Hurr16s and 110K4s instead of spits/109s.
Feel free to proof it.
-
i'd take the spit 1 over it anyday, I wouldn't be seen dead in a Hurricane. They be watermelon planes. ;)
-
I've never had issues with Negative G's in either. I dunno what to tell you. They're both excellent craft and I'd still love to see a Schatzi vs Banshee7 duel in Hurry 1's.
Agreed.
i'd take the spit 1 over it anyday, I wouldn't be seen dead in a Hurricane. They be watermelon planes. ;)
How dare you?!?!?! :O
-
In all ways the Hurri I is easier to fly than the Spit I. Most notably, the Hurri I turns better than any other plane except the A6M2 (and they're close), and it doesn't have that weird unrecoverable inverted spin that the Spit I has.
- oldman
I was flying a Spit 1 in tank town and got into a fight with Shuffler in his 38J. It was a true low and slow turn fight and I had a helluva time fighting the torque and the engine cutting out on my Spit 1.
-
i'd take the spit 1 over it anyday, I wouldn't be seen dead in a Hurricane. They be watermelon planes. ;)
Same here
-
i'd take the spit 1 over it anyday, I wouldn't be seen dead in a Hurricane. They be watermelon planes. ;)
finally someone who agrees with me
-
A few days ago TBone posted a mission involving Spitfire mk I and Hurricane mkI. There were 9 people in a hurri and only 2 in a spit.
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/122/15689474.png)
Why?
I never actually flown Hurri in combat but from what I heard spitfire is better (historically as least). During the Battle of Britain Spitfires would fight the 109s, and Hurricanes would go after the bombers.
hurricane was a more stable gun platform, more rugged, and turned much better.
the spitfire was pretty though.
-
Total 2008 LW arena numbers:
And here's the problem. Neither the Spit I nor the Hurri I is a late war airplane. Using the figures from LW arenas to determine anything at all about the two is Twilight Zone math. You'll get some sort of success rate out of it, but it has nothing to do with how the planes compare to their contemporaries in the Battle of Britain era.
When compared to the planes they should be compared with, the Hurri I does much better than anecdotal evidence suggests it should. I think Krusty is right on this one.
- oldman
-
the spitfire was pretty though.
And responded more rapidly to the controls. And was faster.
I also think AH has the Spit modeled too fragile.
-
the hurri 1 was a fast plane to roll. many pilots who moved from hurries to spits complained about the sluggish response to stick movement . the hurri 1 really shines at hi alt too . take it up to 22K (where it would often fly in the BoB) and see a real difference . again gun placement is very important a 2 sec burst from a hurri will do much more damage than the spit 1 .
Elevator response is also much better in the hurri . more stable in a high speed dive . holds it E quite well compared to the spit 1 .
I take the hurri 1 every time
-
And responded more rapidly to the controls. And was faster.
I also think AH has the Spit modeled too fragile.
faster doesn't always win a fight. in here, when i flew them, i didn't feel too much difference in the control response. i could fight much much better in the hurri. it IS agonizingly slow though.
now, since i know someone is going to start the rl comparisons, i will. if i recall from reading, hurricanes scored more kills than spitfires. in fact, i think you'll find it in another thread somewhere on this bbs.
i don't fly either of them anymore, unless i REALLY need an ego boost for my cartoon pile-iting skills. they both have "easy buttons" in them.
<<S>>
-
They scored more kills in the Battle of Britain, not in WWII. The reasons they scored more in the BoB was due to a few factors:
1) There were more than twice as many Hurricanes used in the BoB as Spitfires.
2) Spitfires, whenever possible, were tasked with handling the much harder to shoot down Bf109 while the Hurricanes focused on the bombers.
3) The Hurricane is a better gun platform.
-
And here's the problem. Neither the Spit I nor the Hurri I is a late war airplane. Using the figures from LW arenas to determine anything at all about the two is Twilight Zone math. You'll get some sort of success rate out of it, but it has nothing to do with how the planes compare to their contemporaries in the Battle of Britain era.
And that wasn't my intention anyways. It was just to show that the hurri I is being used more, and more successful than the Spit I within the context of the LW arenas.
BTW, the picture is very similar in the EW arenas, though the sample is really small.
-
i'd take the spit 1 over it anyday, I wouldn't be seen dead in a Hurricane. They be watermelon planes. ;)
I don't know if you are only referring to Hurri1 or all Hurri's in general? I would gamble a guess you are talking about all Hurri's, and that is down right sad, the Hurri 2c is one of the deadliest planes in game, anytime you wanna test the theory that they are "chit planes" you take what ever you want, I will take the Hurri2c, then you can tell me if they are still "chit planes"
oh wait I remember killin ya in my Hurri quite easy .... never mind. I need more of a challenge.
-
The Hurricane IIC seems deadly mostly because it scavenges off of the medium speed planes that are forced to turn by fast planes. That, and many don't know how easy it is to beat the Hurri IIC with energy tactics. But I do like the characterization: "wirbel with wings." :devil
-
They scored more kills in the Battle of Britain, not in WWII. The reasons they scored more in the BoB was due to a few factors:
1) There were more than twice as many Hurricanes used in the BoB as Spitfires.
2) Spitfires, whenever possible, were tasked with handling the much harder to shoot down Bf109 while the Hurricanes focused on the bombers.
3) The Hurricane is a better gun platform.
which would also lead one to assume, that had britain been lacking one or the other, there would have been a different outcome. they complimented each other.
in the ah world, my preference is the hurri. i do however, frakkin HATE that it is so agonizingly slow
-
i do however, frakkin HATE that it is so agonizingly slow
You can't deal with The Slowest fighter AH inventory so, it must have a 'easy button' in it? I'm confused.
-
The Hurricane IIC seems deadly mostly because it scavenges off of the medium speed planes that are forced to turn by fast planes. That, and many don't know how easy it is to beat the Hurri IIC with energy tactics. But I do like the characterization: "wirbel with wings." :devil
don't know about that, the most killz I get in Hurri are almost always p-51's.
yup I have heard that before "hurri's are easy to beat" they are this or that, but in the MA environment when 90% of fights end up on the deck turning, Hurri2C is King.
-
You can't deal with The Slowest fighter AH inventory so, it must have a 'easy button' in it? I'm confused.
i can deal with it. it got to the point that the only things that gave me trouble in it were zeeks, other hurris that were flown by better pile-its than myself(which most are), and runners. the last one is why i hate that she's so slow.
-
don't know about that, the most killz I get in Hurri are almost always p-51's.
yup I have heard that before "hurri's are easy to beat" they are this or that, but in the MA environment when 90% of fights end up on the deck turning, Hurri2C is King.
In field defence where everybody is turning and slow-vulching, you can kill anything in a Hurry :D
Anything, but not anyone. I am still finding it funny how many opposed the hurry being introduced into AH, claiming it would be a hangar queen... Something rugged that turns on a dime with quad Hizooka....no way.
-
I don't know if you are only referring to Hurri1 or all Hurri's in general? I would gamble a guess you are talking about all Hurri's, and that is down right sad, the Hurri 2c is one of the deadliest planes in game, anytime you wanna test the theory that they are "chit planes" you take what ever you want, I will take the Hurri2c, then you can tell me if they are still "chit planes"
oh wait I remember killin ya in my Hurri quite easy .... never mind. I need more of a challenge.
you obviously didnt watch the you tube funny posted awhile back.
Still I'll gladly take you up on your offer of chest pounding in the DA when i get my internet back on. I'll take the Spit 5/9 against your Hurri. :aok
You got me once or twice but i think you were having some warp issues that day and my initial hits didnt bring you down.
-
i can deal with it. it got to the point that the only things that gave me trouble in it were zeeks, other hurris that were flown by better pile-its than myself(which most are), and runners. the last one is why i hate that she's so slow.
But why did you said the Hurri1 and Spit1 has a 'easy button'?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The HMk1 is not a wonder weapon by any means but it can give a very nasty surprise to overconfident pilot who make a sloppy attack.
Those who think the HMk1 is a 'easy mode' plane just because it can turn, think it again. When you get in to it for the fight, you voluntary narrow your escape window next to none. The running is not a option anymore.
-
But why did you said the Hurri1 and Spit1 has a 'easy button'?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The HMk1 is not a wonder weapon by any means but it can give a very nasty surprise to overconfident pilot who make a sloppy attack.
Those who think the HMk1 is a 'easy mode' plane just because it can turn, think it again. When you get in to it for the fight, you voluntary narrow your escape window next to none. The running is not a option anymore.
because in a turnfight(the kind i like to do the best) they're just about unbeatable.
-
Das 'Easy Button'? Ja ja!
(http://www.yacamim.net/images/fbfiles/images/me163_127.jpg)
- climb rate
- acceleration
- level speed
- turning at wide range of speed
- rolling
- FIRE POWER & convergence
-
you obviously didnt watch the you tube funny posted awhile back.
Still I'll gladly take you up on your offer of chest pounding in the DA when i get my internet back on. I'll take the Spit 5/9 against your Hurri. :aok
You got me once or twice but i think you were having some warp issues that day and my initial hits didnt bring you down.
sorry but no I didn't have connection issue's :rofl
no chest pounding, I am just saying the Hurri is not a "chit plane" as you call it, and MA is fine for me, I don't use or like the F3 view's in DA.
-
Hei Ink!
I would like to have a HMk1 fight with you some day in EW. What do you think?
-
Das 'Easy Button'? Ja ja!
(http://www.yacamim.net/images/fbfiles/images/me163_127.jpg)
- climb rate
- acceleration
- level speed
- turning at wide range of speed
- rolling
- FIRE POWER & convergence
heh......
i flew a komet once.......the only thing i managed to hit was the cartoon ground. :rofl :rofl
-
Least you hit something. :uhoh
-
Least you hit something. :uhoh
ya, but it kilt my k/d ratio, along with my cartoon pile-it. you shoulda heard that german cartoon dood yellin at me in german for crashing hes beautiful komet. :noid :noid
-
, I am just saying the Hurri is not a "chit plane" as you call it,
He never said literally that it was a watermelon plane. There was a British comedy sketch that was posted on the boards a little while back that he was referring to.
I have to doubt that Bruv, who seems to be a fairly patriotic Brit (sorry if I judge you incorrectly, nothing was meant of it I promise ;) ) would seriously refer to the Hurricane as a watermelon plane.
Found it-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw_nP61LwfI
-
Hurri 1 has approx. 333 more rnds of ammunition per wing than the spit 1, IIRC
-
because in a turnfight(the kind i like to do the best) they're just about unbeatable.
Lets go to the DA. You fly a Hurri, I'll fly anything else you want me to and we'll test the easy button.
-
Lets go to the DA. You fly a Hurri, I'll fly anything else you want me to and we'll test the easy button.
if i can get my arse back in the arenas, i'd love to.........but you must've not read my post about being outflown a lot, did ya/?
-
if i can get my arse back in the arenas, i'd love to.........but you must've not read my post about being outflown a lot, did ya/?
PM me up if I'm online.
-
thanks for finding that link Bubi!
Look forward to the fight ink, Maybe we can do hurri vs hurri to see who has the biggest yank n bank skillz then ill go spit and see if i can best your Hurri, Internet should be back on this Thursday at somepoint and ill need to knock off some rust.
-
PM me up if I'm online.
will do..........at the very least, i'll learn something....and most probably have fun doing so.
your bbs name the same ingame?
-
Hei Ink!
I would like to have a HMk1 fight with you some day in EW. What do you think?
sounds like a cool idea, although I don't think I have ever flown in Early war, maybe once or twice since its inception, so I don't go there, but I am on for a bit usually every night after 9 pm Eastern, plus sometimes I will get a few flights in during the day say before 3 pm, do the "dot find" command when you get on and hopefully we will meet up :aok
thanks for finding that link Bubi!
Look forward to the fight ink, Maybe we can do hurri vs hurri to see who has the biggest yank n bank skillz then ill go spit and see if i can best your Hurri, Internet should be back on this Thursday at somepoint and ill need to knock off some rust.
woooo-hooooooo sounds like a plan. :aok
-
will do..........at the very least, i'll learn something....and most probably have fun doing so.
your bbs name the same ingame?
Sorry for the late response. Yes. I'm usually on sometime after 9:00 PM Central or any time Fiday-Sunday if I'm on. LWA's.
-
Sorry for the late response. Yes. I'm usually on sometime after 9:00 PM Central or any time Fiday-Sunday if I'm on. LWA's.
cool./........i'll try to get on this weekend........but i've been working a lot between my shop, and holding a second job to help pay bills while it's slow.......