Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: moot on May 15, 2009, 07:39:59 AM
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This is the fight.. Somewhere in it is a HO (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/TwoWeeksStuff/film45_AKnot_0529.ahf). One more specific case with film to avoid any speculation or ambiguity as to what's more or less good sportsmanship in HOing.
From my end, I get a front quarter at the merge and take it, it's a "HO" that he could have avoided. Because he's higher and appears to be about the same speed, in a plane that could easily deny the shot with a luftberry. Instead he rolls over and noses to. The rest of the fight has a couple of front quarter intersections, with the last shot being the only other one I could see being called out for a HO. I take it because the fight's pretty much over (hog had his gears out the whole time and lost E parity) and it's a legit front quarter shot, the same way coming down early from a rope with a slight offset for a shot that the ropee can't adjust his nose for is not an unfair HO.
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Pardon me for mildly hijacking here, but this brings up a question I have had for some time and a discussion I'd like to get started. Moot, if this is going to drag your thread way off of what you intended, just say the word and I'll start a new thread for this.
That said... Often when HO shots are being discussed, someone will comment that trying to HO an opponent on the merge can actually provide you with an advantage on the merge that makes the fight easier to win.
I think I know what is being talked about when that is said, but would appreciate a discussion in detail on how to take advantage of another persons desire to HO. Oh, and if you've got a good film to illustrate the concept, that would be good too.
Thanks
EDIT: Just realized that this is in the General Discussion section rather then the Training section, so feel free to ignore this completely. Maybe I'll start a thread there later today.
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This is where I get confused, nothing even close to a "HO" there. 1st shot is a pure FQ shot set up by the hogs poor choice of tactics. You begin to give him a similar shot a bit later and as is your responsibility move out of plane. Shot at the end is just the end of fight. He had no E and was a hanging curve ball with no remaining control surface authority. Very nice rudder/throttle work BTW :aok :salute
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Just watched it, I definitely saw a deflection shot at the first merge. The Hog had roughly the same type of deflection shot (which he took and missed) on the 2nd merge. Looked like the Hog was pretty much finished with little or no E after the scissors whereas you still had the juice to get above him. As for you blasting him on the way down while he was headed up on his last bit of E, I've always thought that that was considered acceptable (especially in a rope situation).
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PF it's actually similar to some of what we covered last night. If the opposing player is "flying the gun site" that puts him in plane to you and minimizes any angle off he could establish. If you are flying a merge with good technique and have established good offset early then he's actually maximizing your angular advantage at the merge. In effect he sacrifices proper positioning for a poor shot window. If we look at the very beginning of Moots film he's established a good amount of lateral displacement against the hog. Thats why we can see so much of the plane surface as he tries to turn in for the shot. Not only does he give Moot the shot, he also gives up any opportunity to control the fight.
This is actually exactly what we were working on but applied in a +/- merge scenario.
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PF it's actually similar to some of what we covered last night. If the opposing player is "flying the gun site" that puts him in plane to you and minimizes any angle off he could establish. If you are flying a merge with good technique and have established good offset early then he's actually maximizing your angular advantage at the merge. In effect he sacrifices proper positioning for a poor shot window. If we look at the very beginning of Moots film he's established a good amount of lateral displacement against the hog. Thats why we can see so much of the plane surface as he tries to turn in for the shot. Not only does he give Moot the shot, he also gives up any opportunity to control the fight.
This is actually exactly what we were working on but applied in a +/- merge scenario.
Ya, that's what I was thinking. In fact, I saw several examples of the right and wrong of what we covered last night in that film. Was looking for confirmation on the HO thing to help put the puzzle pieces together in my mind. Many thanks!
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Pardon me for mildly hijacking here, but this brings up a question I have had for some time and a discussion I'd like to get started. Moot, if this is going to drag your thread way off of what you intended, just say the word and I'll start a new thread for this.
That said... Often when HO shots are being discussed, someone will comment that trying to HO an opponent on the merge can actually provide you with an advantage on the merge that makes the fight easier to win.
I think I know what is being talked about when that is said, but would appreciate a discussion in detail on how to take advantage of another persons desire to HO. Oh, and if you've got a good film to illustrate the concept, that would be good too.
Thanks
Basically, the window for a HO shot ends after the window for the next maneuver has opened. In practice this doesn't guarantee that taking a HO shot hurts your chances of keeping up with what's to follow, because you can take the HO shot before it's time to maneuver (reverse or otherwise). E.G. a HO shot from 1.5 to 800 out or so, made seemlessly enough that you used up no or negligible amount of energy for it. The reason it most often does come at the cost of the next maneuver is that, in AH, most players HO from pretty close, way after the window for the next maneuver has already opened (remember that here we're most often at really fast closure speeds and every degree of angle and fraction of a second counts) and often enough one of the two planes is flying around in a way that spoils or outright denies a workable shot. When that last thing is done right, the guy trying to HO is usually lead into a disadvantageous speed/direction/angle, before the initial merge has even happened.
The way to take a HO shot at no cost to the immediately following maneuvers is to shoot early and make the maneuvering for it seemlessly blend into the next maneuver. That's a pretty skillful thing to do (I can't reliably pull it off myself, although the plane I fly is especially bad for this) because you have tiny margins of error. It definitely is worth adding to your toolbox.
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I actually don't consider that a "HO" as much as a FQ snapshot. In effect your pulling lead to where you think the con will go. That is really the entire reason for the guns cold merge in a duel. I can recall 4-5 guys who were very good at pulling lead on the merge very consistantly, the kicker being that it really didnt hurt the merge itself in anyway since they popped off a round or two while pulling the nose around. If you never freeze the nose your not hurting yourself unless you use a lot of control input and end up going from lag to pure to lag without ever actually getting lead. Most of the time this is an out of plane merge that crosses the bogies flight path and then continues in an out of plane lag pursuit...
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That was not a HO in my book you were both pulling into each other at a high angle. You nailed him by shooting where he was going to be in a split second not face shooting him.
I'm not a big fan of Corsair drivers that drop their gear to fight. Just my opinion but it's every bit as gamey as HOing maybe more so. You won fair and square in my book. He lost and lost while gaming the game. AKnot is a good enough stick he shouldn't have to resort to dropping his gear. YMMV.
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Dave, think of it this way. If the nme is intent on holding his nose on you, it empowers you to "draw" his nose into a less than ideal attitude at the merge. In addition to that you can be setting up a lead turn.
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Another HO whine ....how exciting! :rolleyes:
Helm ...out
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I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt at the merge. As soon as I see them nose into me I see that the quality of the fight means little to them so I do whatever I can to kill them quickly. The guy that sets up a better attack and turns out to be a good fight, I generally wont ho even if given the chance later in the fight, instead working for a tail shot.
It does depend on my mood though. Some days just suck and when I come in I just feel like hosing everything I see. Thankfully those days are rare.
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Another HO whine ....how exciting! :rolleyes:
Helm ...out
I wonder why folks who HO always call it a whine?
This looks like an intelligent discussion. At least to the point where helm posts.
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this whole HO thing is a like listening to a professional boxer complain to the referee that he got punched in the nose.
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this whole HO thing is a like listening to a professional boxer complain to the referee that he got punched in the nose.
Thread title says it all and you clicked to read it. Your choice....... what were you expecting.
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Your choice....... what were you expecting.
nothing out of the ordinary, like that crusty material that floats at the top of septic tanks........it's just always going to be there.
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To be perfectly honest the only crust I see in here is you and Helm calling whine where there's none. It's like you guys are so obsessed with whiners you see em everywhere. I didn't even go into the discussion that happened after that fight (where whining did occur) and instead went to the real issue - better or worse gameplay.
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and instead went to the real issue - better or worse gameplay.
yeah...I know the score there too.
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Badabing!
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badaboom :rock
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interesting, i make a comment and it gets dragged here. typical muppet BS. my gear was out for a few seconds, because i over controlled and the AC was flopping about. moot, i was under the impression we left this fight on amicable terms, i guess i was mistaken. if you have a problem with a comment i make, bring it to me.
this will be my only comment on this matter.
NOT
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Notta lotta not in that Aknot :) lol I didn't watch the vid so I didn't know who the other guy was nor did I care.
AKs <S>
Moot <S>
Rosco P. Coltrain <S>
Taco Bell <S>
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That seemed a fair shot.
--moved rest of post to other HO thread for relevancy--
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interesting, i make a comment and it gets dragged here. typical muppet BS. my gear was out for a few seconds, because i over controlled and the AC was flopping about. moot, i was under the impression we left this fight on amicable terms, i guess i was mistaken. if you have a problem with a comment i make, bring it to me.
this will be my only comment on this matter.
NOT
Hehe..
1) It didnt get dragged here. I was genuinely curious of people's assessment of how fair or unfair the "HO" were, regardless of who said or did what.
2) You gears were out for more than a few seconds.
3) There's no implied animosity or whatever in the thread as I meant it. Unless you're referring to your blind muppet hate.
4) I have a problem with my cannons. Could you give me some more trigger time to shoot my taters at? I'll even let you put out your gears if having the absolutely easiest flap fighter in the game against my luftwaffle isn't enough handicap.
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Pardon me for mildly hijacking here, but this brings up a question I have had for some time and a discussion I'd like to get started. Moot, if this is going to drag your thread way off of what you intended, just say the word and I'll start a new thread for this.
That said... Often when HO shots are being discussed, someone will comment that trying to HO an opponent on the merge can actually provide you with an advantage on the merge that makes the fight easier to win.
I think I know what is being talked about when that is said, but would appreciate a discussion in detail on how to take advantage of another persons desire to HO. Oh, and if you've got a good film to illustrate the concept, that would be good too.
Thanks
EDIT: Just realized that this is in the General Discussion section rather then the Training section, so feel free to ignore this completely. Maybe I'll start a thread there later today.
First a point of information.
An involved dogfight incurs a process the military calls the OODA Loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) by both pilots. As this loop continuously repeats for each pilot, the one who works through the loop each time a bit faster than his opponent little by little gains a significant time advantage in the engagement.
When a person merges with you at a distance and is dedicated to the HO all the way, his focus is totally on getting is gun on you and timing the right moment to pull the trigger. Since a true HO is only a 50/50 proposition, a smart pilot uses his opponent's fixation to gain an advantage in the OODA Loop process and the subseqent maneuvers. This is done by appearing to accept the HO, but actually planning a separation move (actually two in combination) to avoid the bandit's HO shot and open up a Lead Turn window on him. Since the other guy is so focused on the HO, he ends up being surprised and reacts late to the unexpected maneuvers.
In effect, this disrupts his original OODA Loop sequence and requires him to revise it, but in reaction to your moves, not in initiation. This can mean you quickly gain a half to one second advantage in your own OODA Loop against his, and of course, the resulting maneuvers you both employ.
Specifically, as you alter your heading just slightly to gain a little lateral or vertical separation (or both) he, still focused on the HO, reacts to keep his gun on you for the shot, not thinking about what he needs to do if he misses and you pass each other. He is locked into the HO mentality and will be slow to break out of it. Since, you have already decided on bypassing the HO and have your Lead Turn maneuver planned, you are ahead of him timewise in the engagement.
As you both pass each other, you start your Lead Turn while he is just starting a new OODA Loop to assess what you've done, then makes his decision how to respond and initiates his maneuver, probably about a second or more after you're already turning on him. You have gained a significant time advantage in both the thinking process and the dogfight itself, plus you now have the initiative and can dictate the fight.
So, here's how I avoid the HO and gain a positional advantage. At roughly 1.5K (just before he's likely to shoot) I adjust my heading slightly away from him in one direction, vertical or horizontal. This is called going Out Of Plane with him in that one dimension. I prefer going nose down as this causes him to nose down as well to get the shot, which increases his speed, making it harder for him to turn quickly later on. Since I've planned for this, I'm ready to adjust throttle when I need to for my Lead Turn.
A split second after I go nose down (giving me a bit of vertical separation), I pull right (or left) and up into a half barrel roll that takes me Out Of Plane (giving me both lateral and vertical separation) with him in all dimensions and spoils his aim completely. Only the very luckest of shots will hit me, if I've timed it right.
While doing this roll the planes pass each other, the bandit still trying to adjust to hit me in my roll, and me flashing past him and starting to go up behind him. Before I reach the top of the half roll (and become fully inverted), I reverse my roll and pull up fully into a Lead Turn loop to come down on his 6. Sometimes this is actually an oblique loop giving how short or long I stay in the barrel roll.
In the mean time, he has either started to recover from his dive and subseqent maneuvers to try and hose me as I passed, and is now (very late) trying to turn on me as well, or he's decided correctly, that he can't beat my turn, and is diving away to escape. In either case, I have positional advantage and can control the fight from there.
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i know i said i wouldn't comment further, but i have to. moot is correct, i just watched the film, and my gear is down for a while. would explain why it wouldn't handle for crap. must have bumped it while looking around as it is mapped to the switch under my views hat. anyway. :salute
NOT
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<S> Not, it was a good fight.
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I wonder why folks who HO always call it a whine?
This looks like an intelligent discussion. At least to the point where helm posts.
Oh come on!......this horse has been beat to death 5000 times........There is no "new" ground on this subject .....enuff allready
Helm ...out
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To be perfectly honest the only crust I see in here is you and Helm calling whine where there's none. It's like you guys are so obsessed with whiners you see em everywhere. I didn't even go into the discussion that happened after that fight (where whining did occur) and instead went to the real issue - better or worse gameplay.
Keep beating this dead horse! .....this is "THE" most over debated subject ever ....maybe you should try the "search button"? ...you might find a few thousand posts on the subject?
Helm ...out
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....maybe you should try the "search button"? ...you might find a few thousand posts on the subject?
A few thousand posts on whether there was a "HO" in the flim moot posted? I seriously doubt it.
I have to assume from your replies you are one of those clueless players that also have to jump in and moan around a HO discussion between two players in the game also. Clueless? Why yes. Unless you're one of those two players, or happen to see the incident first hand, then you lack relevent information to comment on it. Personally I'd rather listen to two player argue on whether a HO just happened than listen to buttheads who (again) are clueless on the details, whine about the whiners, or chime in with meaningless HO related platitudes. Do you also jump in on strangers conversations to attempt to invalidade the topic of discussion in real life? Lol, I can see the black eyes now.
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And I had high hopes that this would turn into one of those great informational threads where several of the games better sticks talk openly on how to fly an AH2 aircraft effectively.
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Easy way to avoid any and all HO's, Simply turn your nose away from the enemy.
There, you will never be HO'ed again, ever.
I guess being HO'ed doesnt bother me, to me its like two knights riding horses at eachother, one will miss, one will hit, or they will each miss, or each hit.
To me there is more honor in shooting/stabbing/kicking someone in the face, vs getting behind them and blasting them in the back, at least you saw me coming. Like i said before, don't want to "JOUST" with me, then turn your back coward, and ill run you down.
The term HO'ed needs to be remade into jousting, because that is exactly what it is. Only difference is 8 times outta 10 the people cryin' on these forums are the loosers to such event, or the guys who go vertical on every fight, cut power and slide down on someone in a nose up stall. Oh bully on you poor guys for not being able to do the same trick again and again and again and again and again and again.
How many times to do you see two planes merge, nose up till stall, roll over,then open fire.
Long story short, you come here and cry because someones not flying and fighting the way YOU want, and i say cudo's to them for that.
Boo frakkity hoo. :salute
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Hehe, what the heck is with all those words ya have to scroll through that come after the Subject line and the reply button?
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Heck of a booby trap ya got set there moot. I wonder how many boobies who skip straight from the subject line to the repy button that you'll end up bagging?
I kind of enjoy watching the fools stumble in.
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A few thousand posts on whether there was a "HO" in the flim moot posted? I seriously doubt it.
I have to assume from your replies you are one of those clueless players that also have to jump in and moan around a HO discussion between two players in the game also. Clueless? Why yes. Unless you're one of those two players, or happen to see the incident first hand, then you lack relevent information to comment on it. Personally I'd rather listen to two player argue on whether a HO just happened than listen to buttheads who (again) are clueless on the details, whine about the whiners, or chime in with meaningless HO related platitudes. Do you also jump in on strangers conversations to attempt to invalidade the topic of discussion in real life? Lol, I can see the black eyes now.
Boring .....I'm NOT impressed. Personal insults are the best you can come up with? ....very childish
Also your search button must be broken, because I came up with over 38 pages of HO's. The subject has been beat to death from every angle. There is no "new" ground on the subject. Maybe you might try the search button again? You might find some enlightenment.
Helm ...out
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Personal insults? Nope. Actually I'm trying to be helpful to those who....
drumroll please....
Actually read what they are replying to.
For instance say...there's a thread started by a player accused of HOing (this is hypothetical of course). And said player posts a film asking for input on whether any of the so called HO's are in poor form.
Then some belligerent blowhard jumps in the thread and calls the OP a whiner. Now to me, said blowhard is an obvious fool, but I thought it would be helpful to highlight the situation so people can follow who is playing what role in the conversation :)
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No biggie, I can see how you could misread my post as a whine. It's kinda foolish to stubbornly insist that someone's whining when there wasn't any and everyone involved said as much, but hey, whatever floats your boat. The point of the thread wasn't to kill the dead horse or change anyone's mind but (quite the opposite) just to hear any feedback, if anyone had some, on this particular instance.
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Also your search button must be broken, because I came up with over 38 pages of HO's. The subject has been beat to death from every angle. There is no "new" ground on the subject. Maybe you might try the search button again? You might find some enlightenment.
Helm ...out
Sorry...for the reading impaired...
A few thousand posts on whether there was a "HO" in the flim moot posted? I seriously doubt it.
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Personal insults? Nope. Actually I'm trying to be helpful to those who....
drumroll please....
Actually read what they are replying to.
For instance say...there's a thread started by a player accused of HOing (this is hypothetical of course). And said player posts a film asking for input on whether any of the so called HO's are in poor form.
Then some belligerent blowhard jumps in the thread and calls the OP a whiner. Now to me, said blowhard is an obvious fool, but I thought it would be helpful to highlight the situation so people can follow who is playing what role in the conversation :)
When I first heard of this game back in Air Warrior I was told: ..."you wont like "Aces High" ...all anyone does is HO's and kill you with rockets." Nothing has been further from the truth.
The entire subject of HO's is beat to death from every angle. The whole topic is "tired" and a waste of BBS space. It also appears that you have no comment about the subject. Your only concern appears to be berating me. Funny, I didn't realise I was the cause of HO's?? ....wow I'm enlightened! I really got under your skin didn't I?
Poor thing, you will get over it with time.
Helm ...out
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So you're saying discussions on HOs are taboo?
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No biggie, I can see how you could misread my post as a whine. It's kinda foolish to stubbornly insist that someone's whining when there wasn't any and everyone involved said as much, but hey, whatever floats your boat. The point of the thread wasn't to kill the dead horse or change anyone's mind but (quite the opposite) just to hear any feedback, if anyone had some, on this particular instance.
I have nothing but respect for you ...and your flying. If you HO'd me I would not care because I respect you. I would figure .."thats what he chose to do in that situation". So in my oppion a HO does not even exist.
The topic of HO is exhausted. That is what I am "stubbornly" saying. It has been looked at and discussed from a 1000 differnt points. ...and frankly whats been accomplished? ...whats changed?
Helm ...out
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So you're saying discussions on HOs are taboo?
They are? That's a shame. There's already a disturbing amount of players that don't know a HO from a canopy shot. Poor noobs will never have an experienced point of view to look to on these matters :frown:
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(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ren1795/catcorn.gif)
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Well, this thread inspired me to seek out Ghosth in the TA to review avoiding HO attempts and how to turn them to my advantage. Well worth the few minutes it took. Many thanks Ghosth!
:salute
See, something good came from this thread, at least from my point of view anyway.
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Easy way to avoid any and all HO's, Simply turn your nose away from the enemy.
There, you will never be HO'ed again, ever.
I guess being HO'ed doesnt bother me, to me its like two knights riding horses at eachother, one will miss, one will hit, or they will each miss, or each hit.
To me there is more honor in shooting/stabbing/kicking someone in the face, vs getting behind them and blasting them in the back, at least you saw me coming. Like i said before, don't want to "JOUST" with me, then turn your back coward, and ill run you down.
The term HO'ed needs to be remade into jousting, because that is exactly what it is. Only difference is 8 times outta 10 the people cryin' on these forums are the loosers to such event, or the guys who go vertical on every fight, cut power and slide down on someone in a nose up stall. Oh bully on you poor guys for not being able to do the same trick again and again and again and again and again and again.
How many times to do you see two planes merge, nose up till stall, roll over,then open fire.
Long story short, you come here and cry because someones not flying and fighting the way YOU want, and i say cudo's to them for that.
Boo frakkity hoo. :salute
He keeps firing, and is awarded the opportunity to claim his golden BB of a hizooka shot was in fact, a 'front quarter'
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Some folks either don't believe in discussions or do not have the tools to participate in one. All that happens when they post is they leave no doubt to their ignorance.
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Hmmm
(http://chat.anncoulter.com/phpBB3//images/smilies/064.gif)
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Not flying F4u's often, I'm curious what dropping the gear does aerodynamically...is it a CG thing to be used temporarily to stabilize?
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OH after reading the title of this post i thought we were talking about my ex-wife ...carry on :salute
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Not CG (barely any shift overall) but helps pitch down the nose and slow the plane down.
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as i was watching the film it was a pretty impressive fight to me becuase the f4u still had bombs on him LOL
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No, he dropped em just before turning in.
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Not CG (barely any shift overall) but helps pitch down the nose and slow the plane down.
Copy that Moot...Thanks! :salute BTW, when my college umpiring season winds down I'd still like to work with you on the 152. I'll PM you and check your availability. I've downloaded a lot of your films & studied them, and I'm in utter awe with what your able to do with that machine.
Oh, and Smokey, your ex-wife sends you her regards! :rofl :t
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If I can do it, you can do it too. I'll upload some more films and update the last two parts of the wiki article in a bit.
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Well, it's a real pity that this thread degenerated, because it was on the right track to become a good guide for pilots on how to deal with HOs and why it's absolutely NOT a good idea to start the fight with one of them. It's a real pity that one of the best posts I've ever read about this latter issue, Sloehand's one, has gone unnoticed... I suggest everybody to read that post again and remember it any time you set yourself up to start a fight!
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I'll upload some more films and update the last two parts of the wiki article in a bit.
Outstanding!
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And I had high hopes that this would turn into one of those great informational threads where several of the games better sticks talk openly on how to fly an AH2 aircraft effectively.
If you recognized it as a learning opportunity then it was a success. Hopefully a lot more saw it this way as opposed to giving the griefers attention.
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And I had high hopes that this would turn into one of those great informational threads where several of the games better sticks talk openly on how to fly an AH2 aircraft effectively.
If you recognized it as a learning opportunity then it was a success. Hopefully a lot more saw it this way as opposed to giving the griefers attention.
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I have made it a point for this month to avoid the Ho at all cost, and you know its amazing how many players will chase you to get that ho shot in and what really surprised me was watching some of the films and seeing some of the names who were doing the chasing or actually pulling the trigger in a merge. Try it sometime and drink a beer and watch the films and scratch your head and say NO WAY! like I did........ :rofl
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Once you figure out how easy it is to turn the HO attempt to your advantage you begin to HOPE for the HO attempt. It is also an instantaneous indicator of the level of skill possessed by your opponent. The more they try to shoot, the less skill they possess is a good general rule.
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Once you figure out how easy it is to turn the HO attempt to your advantage you begin to HOPE for the HO attempt. It is also an instantaneous indicator of the level of skill possessed by your opponent. The more they try to shoot, the less skill they possess is a good general rule.
but some that or doing it i wouldn't have expected
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well we all know HO's are a FACT of the game.....if its 2 guys flying down each others gun sights......... or one guy who wont break off your nose..............it takes two to make that ho happen.
how many times have you been in the MA for 1-2 hrs and not had that HO oppertunity/chance or ever had to aviod it?.............. to be honest YEP ILL HO you! but for every one i do HO i avioded 10!
Personally i expect it in the MA...... its the MA...survival of the fittest.
if your in the DA then the code of honor should apply if so agreed upon.
I can Honestly say there aint a dang one who is not guilty..............especiall y if your turning and the shot presents its self!
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Once you figure out how easy it is to turn the HO attempt to your advantage you begin to HOPE for the HO attempt. It is also an instantaneous indicator of the level of skill possessed by your opponent. The more they try to shoot, the less skill they possess is a good general rule.
There is a opposite side to your statement. Ever hear of a feint? It's integral to a real dogfight. In this case a feint might just be a HO shot to make the dude "believe" you have no skill. Ever think of that?
Ren
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I try several tactics to avoid them, cant seem to find one that stands out above others--jug has like 18 cylinders all begging to spray oil on my windscreen--
1. When it becomes evident to me that's the tactic the guy's gonna use---he's prolly 2.0 to 1.5 out (I'm slow on the uptake)
2. Most common avoidance is a notch flaps, rollout left, but if the guy's diving, he could mebbe make that shot, land a golden bb with afore-mentioned hizooka
3. If he's even on, sometimes I hit notch, zoom up, start Immel, (depending on me E, and what I think he's gonna do)
4. Sometimes I push stick, come back up and over after he's passed, but they occasionally get me with canopy shot
Biggest thing (I assume) is WHAT range ought I try somethin, sooner, or later?
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The guy's coming at you? Why not immediately point 20 degrees off his nose. Offset. You are no longer head on.
As he closes begin a turn back into him to go canopy to canopy. Before the merge (d-400) just pitch up and roll to the outside of your turn and put your lift vector a little ahead of his nose. Be looking at him as he goes by to your 6. If he maintains his turn you should have a nice canopy shot as he comes around as you've significantly decreased your turning circle while he's has grown larger. If he goes up or blasts on thru just stay level and extend away.
After you've done it a few times it becomes almost natural to pitch, chop, roll, pull, shoot.
Ren
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The guy's coming at you? Why not immediately point 20 degrees off his nose. Offset. You are no longer head on.
Thats where I most commonly get popped in such situations--I'm off angle enough that I have no shot, but he can often yank hard on stick, land a canopy shot, claim it wasn't a 'ho' (Which is the shot he prolly intended all along)--I'm assuming I ought be trying this at long range as possible ?
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If yer both angling (read pulling g's) he might get an instant snap shot but if you've already begun a pitch by d400 you only show him a
fuselage which is typically out of plane for his shot. While you're looking back you will see the tracers (if he's using them) going by but rarely hitting you.
Ren
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Please excuse me moot but I couldn't help wondering if you were using the track IR 4 to HO people?
I was wondering if so was there some benefits that you get from it>? Anyone?
I was also curious if there were others using the Saitek X52 to peform the HO maneuver? Anyone?
If yes on either please feel free to chime in. I am very curious about this and didn't want anyone to think I was whining about the hardware.
How about 4 gigs? Any help, I prefer to aim just below the oncoming HO master myself, does the extra memory help?
on the subject of flying online, while evading a P38, who did get some rounds on my plane, though no damage, i found my plane in a slow roll to the left and it was not responding to roll input. I thought my stick was unplugged so I begin clicking on various things on the stick. Everthing responded yet roll was out. Wondered how he got my alerons but no damage. I soon augered in and from the tower selected a new ride. Much to my chagrin, my alerons were not working. I immediately tried my joystick control panel and found the problem. I have no roll control. You may aks and that's ok, what does this have to do with a HO whine thread. I tell you that I am now prevented from HO'ing until I get a new joystick. Anyone have any recommendations? I can't wait to get back to HO'ing.
INiFIDELz
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Haven't got my TIR to work yet. I do look around the bars with the fwd view position (snap, not instant) all the time to help me bring the nose to the right position ahead of time on many shots, though. But as far as TIR goes, I've heard almost nothing but positives from users. Only downsides that I've heard of are motion sickness and (just 2 people said this) less of a solid sense of where the plane is flying exactly, because you're freely looking around. The latter can probably be fixed by adjusting the deadband though.
Extra memory helps, but there's many other bottlenecks to avoid, such as not overloading your system (too many skins, hi res pack) and not having too many stray processes wasting CPU time. This is all covered pretty well in the Hardware/Software and Tech Support forums if you care to check em out.
As far as joystick recommendations, this is covered pretty well in the Hardware forum too. But if anything, go to a store and try out the sticks yourself. Ergonomics and build quality mean a lot. The best stick is the one you forget you're using when flying.
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I gotta agree with Moot on the TrackIR. If you're looking for immersion that will sure help to do it.
I noted a few misses with it. I like to keep my eye on the dude I'm fighting. The sense I got in a clear canopy plane, like a 51D,
when looking somewhere up is a distinct lack of peripheral vision as to where my planes nose was in relation to the bandit. It's not quite the same as being there in RL. I sold mine for that and a couple other tech reasons.
When I find a decent headset (stereo monitors) that can handle our game I'll probably pick up another TrackIr and try it again.
Couple those two together and IMHO the immersion factor goes way up.
Ren