Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: grizz441 on May 30, 2009, 03:53:28 AM
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I am by no means the best at doing this but I figured I'd try to help some other guys with this type of shot that might be having trouble with it. I used to suck at this a few months ago when I was getting familiar with the german rides but practiced and got better.
Your traditional situation in a 262:
You are coming in on a bogey going straight and he turns his wings and breaks one direction. The instinctual thing to do is to track his turn with your gunsight and by the time he gets into firing range he is out of 30mm gun solution. You fire at him, undershoot and he flies off and you continue straight kill-less. If you could connect on this shot consistently you will at least quadruple your average Kills/Sortie in the Me262.
Here's the trick: Once you see him tilt his wings to turn, you immediately turn your jet as far out in front of him as you can visualize. It's also a good idea to use your full rudder in the direction of the turn to get your nose even further ahead of his turn path. You want to be visualizing where he will be in five seconds. To put it simple as moot and scotch told me, you almost want to try to ram him. Once you get your nose way out there, it's a waiting game as he continues to turn into your gun solution. This gives you about a second to line up the shot and fire on time. Hopefully you connect with a tater, this is how it's done. 95% of the battle is won in the shot setup, not the actual shot itself. Set yourself up for the easiest shot possible.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/How To Set up 262 Shot.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/How To Set up 262 Shot.ahf)
Film of me setting it up. I still didn't get my nose far enough in front as evident by the 250yd tater. You want to try to get that shot in the range of 100-200 yds. Hope this helps anybody that has trouble with the taters as I once did. salute
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I would also add that you should only be firing one cannon at a time. Not both. Conserving ammo is key when you fly the 262.
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that view you use out on the left wing - does AH film exagerate the "move head left" or am I missing something?
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I would also add that you should only be firing one cannon at a time. Not both. Conserving ammo is key when you fly the 262.
you have 360rds of 1 ping kill, that's plenty. Also remember that your rate of fire is low , it's easy to have guys fly in between your tracers even with 4 guns. The only shots I fire 2 guns on, are the ones i know i have.
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I would also add that you should only be firing one cannon at a time. Not both. Conserving ammo is key when you fly the 262.
It may be up to player preference, but I'll beg to differ. The 30mm is a dodgy thing, and in snapshots where relative speed is often 600mph+, you're better off shooting all four cannons for ~2-3 rounds each. The snapshot doesn't last longer than that. Once you know how to aim the 30mm and don't need to compensate by flying yourself into a dead-easy shot, then it's another story... But for starters, it's easier and more efficient to shoot everything for short bursts from a very easy position like in Grizz' film. There's enough for 20 kills in one load of ammo fired at 4x.
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I would agree - keep all thoughts of conserving ammo until you are really good.
When attacking fighters, you often have just one clear chance of hitting them. Grizz advice on hoft to aim in succh a situation is absolutely on spot, but then don't hesitate to blast away.
Personally, I have chosen to set my convergence in a very unthriftly way: one pair at 650, one pair at 250 for maximum shotgun effect vs fighters. Remember, it takes only 1 hit to kill.
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Remember, it takes only 1 hit to kill.
2 with Spits :furious
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I use Lusche's method, although setting the upper set to 300 yards and the lower set to 600, it works pretty well.
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Good post Grizz!
You know, there is a lot of advice on the net about the broader theoretical aspects of ACM, but some of the nuts and bolts stuff, like how to set up shots like this on slower, better turning planes can be a sticking point. :aok
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that view you use out on the left wing - does AH film exagerate the "move head left" or am I missing something?
The film viewer exaggerates it. I do use the left arrow and look out the left side of my cockpit in that particular shot for better visibility but it isn't a requirement.
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Good.
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Another example.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/How to Set up 262 shot2.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/How to Set up 262 shot2.ahf)
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Hoq to Set up 262 Shot3.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Hoq To Set up 262 Shot3.ahf)
Another easy setup. A8 is stalling out and turning downward. Simply nose down at meet him at 100yds. Can't miss.
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This is something I put in another thread and in the 152's wiki article, but here it is (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/ACMexamples/film15_fast30snapshot_0002.ahf) for a bit of extra perspective on this. It's not quite the same thing, but the basic principle is the same.
If you're fairly new to close snapshots, one easy way to start is picturing it this way: A collision course will have the target at a fixed position on your screen. Whether you're flying straight at a hangar, or at a Lancaster head-on, it'll be staying put in one position. Whereas if you're flying on an intersection just ahead or behind of the target, it'll be moving slightly in one direction on your screen. What you want to do is practice this (you don't die for real and planes are free, don't be afraid to find the limits by breaking them) till you fly just past the target, without touching or damaging yourself from the 30mm explosions.
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Excellent guys, thanks! Among several other thing, gunnery (especially with the 30mm) is something I really need to work on. I know for a fact that I miss a lot of kills by just plain missing shots that I should have made. Sometimes I even lose fights because I missed my one or two good shots. I'm starting to get more in the habit of flying for a shot and not flying the gunsight, but stuff like this is really helpful, not only in terms of instruction but also in the re-enforcement of good habits. Hopefully in the coming months my hit percentage will start to go up.
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Excellent guys, thanks! Among several other thing, gunnery (especially with the 30mm) is something I really need to work on. I know for a fact that I miss a lot of kills by just plain missing shots that I should have made. Sometimes I even lose fights because I missed my one or two good shots. I'm starting to get more in the habit of flying for a shot and not flying the gunsight, but stuff like this is really helpful, not only in terms of instruction but also in the re-enforcement of good habits. Hopefully in the coming months my hit percentage will start to go up.
Even with poor aim, you can still have a high hit % by making it a higher priority to set yourself up for the easiest shot possible. The focus of this thread is to show you how to do that with the 30mm instead of relying on laser guided aim to get kills.
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My strategey: Dont shoot until you see the bolts of his plane. Works nicely. :aok
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Even with poor aim, you can still have a high hit % by making it a higher priority to set yourself up for the easiest shot possible. The focus of this thread is to show you how to do that with the 30mm instead of relying on laser guided aim to get kills.
Yep, that's what I've been trying to do as of late, and that's also why this is an excellent thread. I appreciate what you're doing here and it'll help for certain.
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http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/K4 Tater Setup.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/K4 Tater Setup.ahf)
Another good example of setting up your shot.
As the Yak9T banks to the right, I immediately pull my nose ahead of his flight path and draw him in for the crossing shot. Once I get my nose far enough out in front, I line up the shot, then fire on time. Those are the 3 steps to tatering actually:
1) Intercept their flight path (<200yds at gun solution)
2) Line up the shot vertically
3) Fire on Time
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The films' addies do not exist any more
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The films' addies do not exist any more
We had a server issue and a lot of stuff got deleted. Check back tomorrow, I'll try to remember to get the links up again.
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Thanks =) 40 days til I can play AH2 again ! Trying to dust off the rust :x
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Hey Grizz any luck getting your k4 tator shot video reposted?
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Hey Grizz any luck getting your k4 tator shot video reposted?
The crossing shot one?
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After reading your explaination on how you track targets w/ 262 and 163. I understood your concept. The issue I had w/ the fast movers was as you stated "lead by gunsight" which caused undershot. How do you engage target using slower propeller plane such as FWs? with BnZ or E engagement passes. I always close in about 200, using my gunsight to lead. As soon as the target disappear under my nose where I can't see, normally about 200 meters out. That's when I fired a short 1 second burst, 10-20 rounds of 20mm and it usually kill. Normally from a position where I can see the target wing tips to wing tip, and nose to tail to maximize my chance of hitting the target. Though I have to do this at a high rate of speed normally in a dive or pulling out of a dive just so I can get in position fast enough to deliver as target of oppertunity arise. Unlike 163 or 262, the propeller doesn't have the speed to maintain that rate of closure so I had to do that. Could you also please send a few ahf video of your engagement using propeller planes and the K4s.
I fly the K-4 a lot but I never used the twist method to maximize tracking time and lead time. I understood the method but I'm having a hard time visualizing how to set up the target into that shot.
Yenny
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The last video you posted "http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/K4 Tater Setup.ahf"
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Thanks Grizz the movies are working now.
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Well Yenny, the shot becomes infinitely easier when you place your cursor on the gunsight and then a glitch allows you to move your head position left, clear of the aircraft without that pesky nose in the way.
After reading your explaination on how you track targets w/ 262 and 163. I understood your concept. The issue I had w/ the fast movers was as you stated "lead by gunsight" which caused undershot. How do you engage target using slower propeller plane such as FWs? with BnZ or E engagement passes. I always close in about 200, using my gunsight to lead. As soon as the target disappear under my nose where I can't see, normally about 200 meters out. That's when I fired a short 1 second burst, 10-20 rounds of 20mm and it usually kill. Normally from a position where I can see the target wing tips to wing tip, and nose to tail to maximize my chance of hitting the target. Though I have to do this at a high rate of speed normally in a dive or pulling out of a dive just so I can get in position fast enough to deliver as target of oppertunity arise. Unlike 163 or 262, the propeller doesn't have the speed to maintain that rate of closure so I had to do that. Could you also please send a few ahf video of your engagement using propeller planes and the K4s.
I fly the K-4 a lot but I never used the twist method to maximize tracking time and lead time. I understood the method but I'm having a hard time visualizing how to set up the target into that shot.
Yenny
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Well Yenny, the shot becomes infinitely easier when you place your cursor on the gunsight and then a glitch allows you to move your head position left, clear of the aircraft without that pesky nose in the way.
That's a film viewer glitch. You should go read "A View to Kill", an article on the AH Trainer Corps webpage.
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Uh huh
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Uh huh
Sour grapes? Whats your in game name?
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Uh huh
Do me a favor, go take off, slide your view to the far right and save the film. Then watch it in the film viewer and see what happens.
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I am familiar with the viewer glitch, my post was for the most part directed at messing with Yenny (I didn'y use your quote) but may have been a bit accusatory as well, I'm a suspcious guy. I have seen unlimited ammo show up in the MA before so making this particular offline/viewer feature available in the MA is probably not beyond someone's capability. I would have just let it go at my origional post but you got pretty defensive pretty quickly so I figured "what the heck, I'll go with it."
You have been at this a lot longer than I and are very good, nay, one of the very best in the game. I know enough that if I want to have an enjoyable evening on Aces and land some kills that it is best to stay away from the Army of Pickers....errrr....I mean Muppets. Good wingman tactics.
As for sour grapes, I don't take this seriously enough for that. Aces High is not the yardstick by which I judge my success in life.
"Good talk, I'll see ya out there"
Do me a favor, go take off, slide your view to the far right and save the film. Then watch it in the film viewer and see what happens.
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Grizz,
Can you look at this film and give me some tip on setting up. I think what I end up doing is work the enemy down for a kill, instead of a quick snap shot.
http://www.filefront.com/16802343/109k4fun.ahf
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Grizz,
Can you look at this film and give me some tip on setting up. I think what I end up doing is work the enemy down for a kill, instead of a quick snap shot.
http://www.filefront.com/16802343/109k4fun.ahf
It was real good K4 flying. The only blatant mistake was at 4:40, when you followed lag pursuit behind the P51 and fired blind underneath your nose. What I would have done is started off to the side slightly so I could see him, and pulled harder turn out in front of him. Then, as I have already cut his angle for quick closure, slide back into his line of action, twist slightly for tater visibility, and blast him. Never shoot blind from underneath the nose. Besides that, was good stuff. :aok
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Yea, It's a hard habit to break :(