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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 06:55:21 PM

Title: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 06:55:21 PM
Ok we all know the

Pride of German Navy was the Bismarck
Pride of Japan's Navy was the Yamato
Pride of Bristish Navy was the HMS Hood

But what was the Pride of the U.S. Navy? (Battleship not Carriers)

My guesses would be the USS Arizona cause it was targetted by Japan or the USS Missouri because it was an Iowa-Class Battleship and those were the largest U.S. had
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: fudgums on June 18, 2009, 07:06:39 PM
Indianapolis or chicago
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Cajunn on June 18, 2009, 07:10:28 PM
well its hard to say about American battleships because like most of American military ships they were in classes like the Arizona was a Pennsylvania-class battleship
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Rino on June 18, 2009, 07:14:56 PM
Indianapolis or chicago

Apparently we're promoting cruisers to battlewagons  :rofl
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 07:28:47 PM
Apparently we're promoting cruisers to battlewagons  :rofl

In that case I vote for the USS Johnston  :rofl but I guess technically HMS Hood was a Battlecruiser
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 18, 2009, 07:59:42 PM
Easy.

(http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/8384/CV-6.jpg)
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: smokey23 on June 18, 2009, 08:01:46 PM
The big E the enterprise
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: B4Buster on June 18, 2009, 08:04:23 PM
The big E the enterprise

He said NOT carriers.

USS Johnston for sure! What a brave crew.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 08:04:38 PM
Thats a Carrier not a battleship  :confused:
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Ratpack1 on June 18, 2009, 08:05:58 PM
Consensus says any of the Iowa class such as the USS Iowa
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 08:06:02 PM
He said NOT carriers.

USS Johnston for sure! What a brave crew.

For Sure, Johnston Crew and Captain were incredibly brave...pretty much went on a suicide run
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 18, 2009, 08:12:36 PM
Thats a Carrier not a battleship  :confused:

Sorry, the Enterprise was the Pride of the Fleet, regardless of "your choice/exclusions".   
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: PFactorDave on June 18, 2009, 08:13:35 PM
Sorry, the Enterprise was the Pride of the Fleet, regardless of "your choice/exclusions".   

I agree with this completely.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Kazaa on June 18, 2009, 08:14:10 PM
Question No.2: Which A/C was the pride of the RAF in WW2, apart from the Spitfire. :devil


Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 08:35:11 PM
Question No.2: Which A/C was the pride of the RAF in WW2, apart from the Spitfire. :devil




F4U Corsair?
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: PFactorDave on June 18, 2009, 08:37:46 PM
F4U Corsair?

The British did have those you know...
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 08:39:14 PM
I know they had F4Us thats why i guessed it lol...I was trying to think of a good plane that the British used.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Belial on June 18, 2009, 08:43:48 PM
I play battleshits everyday.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: lyric1 on June 18, 2009, 08:49:12 PM

But what was the Pride of the U.S. Navy?

?

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/f883a961aa.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: PFactorDave on June 18, 2009, 08:54:35 PM
?

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/f883a961aa.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

A three hour tour...  Three hour tour...
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 18, 2009, 09:30:38 PM
USS Houston was FDR's "Favorite"

Great book on it and the loss early in the war called "Ship of Ghosts" by James Hornfischer
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 09:30:48 PM
Look at that hole...Bill Paxton would have put a pipe patch over it and it would have been fine.

(http://movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/universal_pictures/u_571/bill_paxton/u571.jpg)

Lets see who the first person is that gets the referrence
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Banshee7 on June 18, 2009, 10:08:36 PM
Sorry, the Enterprise was the Pride of the Fleet, regardless of "your choice/exclusions".   

But his question asked Pride of the Fleet out of the battleships, as the rest of the ships in the list WERE battleships.  Correct?
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Rino on June 18, 2009, 10:16:14 PM
Question No.2: Which A/C was the pride of the RAF in WW2, apart from the Spitfire. :devil




i'll go with the DH 98 Mosquito  :aok
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: flatiron1 on June 18, 2009, 10:21:44 PM
Lets hear for the

USS North Carolina
BB55
"The Showboat"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sauRhkTIWP4


visit "The Showboat" in Wilmington, NC
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: DVDA on June 18, 2009, 10:25:08 PM
But his question asked Pride of the Fleet out of the battleships, as the rest of the ships in the list WERE battleships.  Correct?

Yes I was asking about Battleships not Carriers, and all the ships listed (Yamato, Hood, Bismarck) were Battleships although the Hood was technically a Cruiser
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Cajunn on June 18, 2009, 10:38:16 PM
Easy.

(http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/8384/CV-6.jpg)


He's right the big E would be my choice out of all the WW2 military ships for the U.S. I don't think that one Battleship stood out and my second choice would be the USS Indianapolis and it was a cruiser.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Oleg on June 19, 2009, 12:14:02 AM
although the Hood was technically a Cruiser

Battlecruiser
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Baumer on June 19, 2009, 12:18:28 AM
I think it worth a little more info to explain why each was the "Pride of the Fleet".

The HMS Hood was to be 1 of 4, Admiral Class Battlecruisers that were planned during WWI. As WWI drew to a close it was decided to cancel the other 3 ships but the Hood was far enough along that it was decided to complete her. So the HMS Hood was very unique to the British Fleet.

Similarly for the Germans, the Bismark was the first of only 2 in her class, and she was the only one to see any "real" combat. The Tirpitz spent most of the war being hidden in various Norwegian fjords.

And the same goes for the Yamato, 1 of only 2 ships in her class and she saw significant action as the largest Battleship ever built.


So with that background, it's hard for me to think of a single American battleship / heavy cruiser that was so unique (being 1 of a small class of ship) and seeing significant action. The USS Enterprise is the closest thing I can think of that fits the bill, but aircraft carrier's were not the pride of the fleet back then.

However, all sailors are proud of their ships no matter what they are!   :)



Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: uptown on June 19, 2009, 12:20:38 AM
PT 109
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: 999000 on June 19, 2009, 12:23:56 AM
ENTERPRISE.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 19, 2009, 12:26:49 AM
Yes I was asking about Battleships not Carriers, and all the ships listed (Yamato, Hood, Bismarck) were Battleships although the Hood was technically a Cruiser

What is your point of this thread?   Honestly.   You're getting a few of your facts wrong.   The Hood was NOT a "Cruiser", it was a "Battlecruiser".    
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 19, 2009, 12:36:47 AM
USS Oklahoma and the BigE

The Oklahoma was sunk and never saw action in WWII.   The ONLY two "battleships" that can possibly be considered are the Washington or South Dakota, but none had the luster of the "Enterprise". 

Iowa Class didn't really "achieve" much in WWII.   

1.  Enterprise
2.  USS Washington (stellar service in WWII, especially at Guadalcanal)

Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: RipChord929 on June 19, 2009, 03:17:21 AM
Pride of the US Navy?  USS Enterprise!

Pride of the US "big gun" Navy?  USS Washington!

The only US battleship, to sink an enemy battleship
in a heads up fight.... A 2vs2 slugfest... At night,
with both sides groping in the dark...

That puts it in a VERY small group of ships...

Surigao straight, wasn't a "fair fight" in my book...

Now, if you had asked, What was the "HERO" ship of
the US navy?   For Now and All time!
USS Johnston or Sam Roberts, would be it!!!

IMO

RC
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Furball on June 19, 2009, 03:23:42 AM
Question No.2: Which A/C was the pride of the RAF in WW2, apart from the Spitfire. :devil




Lancaster or Mosquito.  The Mossie was probably the best aircraft of the entire war. :D
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Furball on June 19, 2009, 03:25:21 AM
F4U Corsair?

The RAF did not use the Corsair.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: 1pLUs44 on June 19, 2009, 03:53:22 AM
USS Texas, BB-35.

(http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b_the_pacific_lone_star.jpg)
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Plawranc on June 19, 2009, 04:02:28 AM
USS MISSOURI
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: RufusLeaking on June 19, 2009, 11:01:37 AM
Surigao straight, wasn't a "fair fight" in my book...

Now, if you had asked, What was the "HERO" ship of
the US navy?   For Now and All time!
USS Johnston or Sam Roberts, would be it!!!


Too lazy to check, are these the Taffy 3 Destroyers that charged the Jap battleships?

Those guys had some large brass appendages.  <S>
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: bobtom on June 19, 2009, 12:44:00 PM
The USS Wisconsin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ATYPrZnSQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ATYPrZnSQ)

http://www.nauticus.org/wisconsin.html (http://www.nauticus.org/wisconsin.html)


"the Battleship Wisconsin is one of the largest and last battleships ever built by the U.S. Navy"
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 19, 2009, 01:45:33 PM
Too lazy to check, are these the Taffy 3 Destroyers that charged the Jap battleships?

Those guys had some large brass appendages.  <S>

Taffy 3 and the mentioned destroyers were involved in the Battle of Samar off the Leyte invasion beaches with the escort carriers supporting the invasion transports.

The Battle of Surigao Strait involved 6 BBs sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor, USS West Virginia, Maryland, Mississippi, Tennessee, California, and Pennsylvania, 4 heavy cruisers, 4 light cruisers, 28 destroyers and 39 PT Boats against the Japanese Southern Force consisting or 2 Battleships, Yamashiro and Fusō, the heavy cruiser Mogami, 4 destroyers and, 25 miles behind, Admiral Shima's force consisting of 2 Heavy Cruisers,  1 Light Cruiser, and 7 Destroyers.

Map: The Battle of Surigao Strait (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Surigao_straight.jpg)

It was the last of the Battleship vs. Battleship encounters.  Surface combatants only.

wiki battle of Leyte Gulf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leyte_Gulf)

The U.S.S. Washington was involved in the first Battleship vs. battleship encounter of the was in the Pacific off of Guadalcanal on November 15, 1942 where she, along with the U.S.S. South Dakota, 1 cruiser and 4 destroyers  engaged the Japanese force consisting of the Battleship Kirishima, 2 Heavy Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers and 9 Destroyers.

See wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Washington_(BB-56))


wrongway

Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Nemisis on June 19, 2009, 04:00:11 PM
Pride of German Navy was the Bismarck
Pride of Japan's Navy was the Yamato
Pride of Bristish Navy was the HMS Hood

But what was the Pride of the U.S. Navy?

My guesses would be the USS Arizona cause it was targetted by Japan or the USS Missouri because it was an Iowa-Class Battleship and those were the largest U.S. had
Well for the guy that said most of U.S. ships were in classes well so were the other navies' ships.

Bismark class- was composed of the Bismark and the Tirpitz if I remember correctly.
Hood class- was composed of the Hood, no other ships.
Yamato- I have no idea if it was in it's own class or part of another. I would have to guess Yamato class, not sure if Japan had classes like the U.S., England, and Germany.

U.S. fleet, I would have to go with the U.S.S. Arizona on that one. I will check. Sorry can't find anything about it but I still go with the Arizona.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 19, 2009, 04:10:03 PM
Well for the guy that said most of U.S. ships were in classes well so were the other navies' ships.

Bismark class- was composed of the Bismark and the Tirpitz if I remember correctly.
Hood class- was composed of the Hood, no other ships.
Yamato- I have no idea if it was in it's own class or part of another. I would have to guess Yamato class, not sure if Japan had classes like the U.S., England, and Germany.

U.S. fleet, I would have to go with the U.S.S. Arizona on that one. I will check. Sorry can't find anything about it but I still go with the Arizona.

The H.M.S. Hood was in the Admiral Class of battlecruiser.   The three other planned ships within the class were cancelled due to the G3 battlecruisers (and N3 battleships), but none of those never made it past the planning stage.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Nemisis on June 19, 2009, 04:13:53 PM
Ah......damn book lied to me!!! Ah well, what ever. Thank for fixing my mistakes. <S>
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Rich46yo on June 19, 2009, 06:20:00 PM
Well I guess you can pretty well pick any ship you want. This was the size of the USN at the time of Japans surrender in August 1945.

23 Battleships- 28 Fleet Carriers- 71 Escort Carriers- 72 Cruisers- 377 Destroyers- 361 Frigates- 232 Submarines- 586 Mine Warfare- 1204 Patrol craft- 2547 Amphibious ships- 1267 Auxiliary ships. A total of 6768 active USN Hulls.

So we had a little difficulty picking just one as "The Pride".
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 19, 2009, 06:27:34 PM
Well I guess you can pretty well pick any ship you want. This was the size of the USN at the time of Japans surrender in August 1945.

23 Battleships- 28 Fleet Carriers- 71 Escort Carriers- 72 Cruisers- 377 Destroyers- 361 Frigates- 232 Submarines- 586 Mine Warfare- 1204 Patrol craft- 2547 Amphibious ships- 1267 Auxiliary ships. A total of 6768 active USN Hulls.

So we had a little difficulty picking just one as "The Pride".

Frigates? 

(http://www.quilion.com/Images/uss_constitution_1997.jpg)


I know....

But help me out.  Frigate = DE?  CL?


wrongway
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 19, 2009, 07:57:01 PM
Frigates? 

(http://www.quilion.com/Images/uss_constitution_1997.jpg)

I know....

But help me out.  Frigate = DE?  CL?
wrongway

Plenty of Frigates were in use by both the USN and the USCG in WWII.   Look into the "Tacoma Class Frigates".

The Designation was PF.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2009, 12:08:15 AM
You gents picking the Big E, the Missouri, Indianapolis etc aren't looking at this the right way.  After the fact, looking back at which ship was the most memorable isn't the same as calling one the pride of the fleet at the time.

I would suggest that going into WW2 within the USN that the USS Lexington or Saratoga were probably the pride of the Navy Aviation guys.  As I mentioned earlier the heavy cruiser USS Houston was Roosevelt's  "favorite' as he'd used it on a number of occasions.

If I'm reading it right, USS California was the home for the Admiral commanding the Pacific Battle Fleet at the time of Pearl Harbor, which might make her the pride of the battleship navy, although West Virginia, Colorado and Maryland were the last pre-war battleships built.

And for the guy who mentioned the DD USS Johnston, and the DE USS Samual B. Roberts, you can't forget the DD USS Hoel or DD USS Herrmann from that same fight.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: -tronski- on June 20, 2009, 11:48:15 AM
Pride of the US Navy...easy

USS Pride DE-323   :aok

 Tronsky
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: kilo2 on June 20, 2009, 12:39:15 PM
Sorry, the Enterprise was the Pride of the Fleet, regardless of "your choice/exclusions".   

He excluded carriers in the question I assume for a reason.

It would be the 4 Iowa class ships the Iowa,New Jersey,Wisconsin,and the Missouri
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: TonyJoey on June 20, 2009, 12:48:12 PM
Too lazy to check, are these the Taffy 3 Destroyers that charged the Jap battleships?

Those guys had some large brass appendages.  <S>

Yes. Watching the Dogfights Episode on that right now in fact. :aok
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 20, 2009, 02:06:37 PM
He excluded carriers in the question I assume for a reason.

It would be the 4 Iowa class ships the Iowa,New Jersey,Wisconsin,and the Missouri

The Washington saw 10x the action either of those four encountered in WWII.   But, I guess.   :rofl
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Furball on June 20, 2009, 03:01:18 PM
Oh.. and pride of the Royal Navy - the oldest commissioned warship in the world. :D


(http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/great_britain/photos/ships_of_the_line/victory/hms_victory_01.jpg)
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: kilo2 on June 20, 2009, 04:29:57 PM
The Washington saw 10x the action either of those four encountered in WWII.   But, I guess.   :rofl

The yamoto sat in dry dock most of its time and only saw combat once, The Hood saw action 2 times the second time it was sunk by the bismark whick itself sunk the hood and spent the rest of its time afloat fleeing. It doesnt matter how much combat a ship sees, I mean the first USS Bonhomme Richard Sank its first time in combat doesnt make it any less famous.

If you thought the washington was the pride of american battle ships why not just say it
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2009, 05:25:24 PM
I must be talking to myself.

The pride of the Navy would seem to be much more of a non wartime thing.  The HMS Hood was the pride of the British Navy.  That wasn't a wartime bit, that was between the wars.  I doubt there was much time to worry about the pride of whatever navy when there was a war going on.  Too many other things going on at the time.

A lot less waving the flag, sailing into foreign ports to show off stuff.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: kilo2 on June 20, 2009, 05:29:55 PM
I must be talking to myself.

The pride of the Navy would seem to be much more of a non wartime thing.  The HMS Hood was the pride of the British Navy.  That wasn't a wartime bit, that was between the wars.  I doubt there was much time to worry about the pride of whatever navy when there was a war going on.  Too many other things going on at the time.

A lot less waving the flag, sailing into foreign ports to show off stuff.

I agree with you guppy i was pointing out that those ships were the pride of there respective navys and it didnt matter how much combat they saw masherbums idea of pride would be how much combat a ship has seen. 
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 20, 2009, 05:34:08 PM
I agree with you guppy i was pointing out that those ships were the pride of there respective navys and it didnt matter how much combat they saw masherbums idea of pride would be how much combat a ship has seen. 

Wrong.   But, you're entitled to your opinon, even if you haven't a damn clue of what you're "trying to assume about me".    :x


Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Rich46yo on June 20, 2009, 05:34:59 PM
The yamoto sat in dry dock most of its time and only saw combat once, The Hood saw action 2 times the second time it was sunk by the bismark whick itself sunk the hood and spent the rest of its time afloat fleeing. It doesnt matter how much combat a ship sees, I mean the first USS Bonhomme Richard Sank its first time in combat doesnt make it any less famous.

If you thought the washington was the pride of american battle ships why not just say it

Twice. It saw combat twice. You can almost say 3 times cause He was torpedoed by USS Skate in Dec. '43 and had to return to Truk for repairs. From there He was at The Battle of The Philippine Sea in June '44 where Yamato fired its guns for the first time in anger. Unfortunately it was their own fighters the Yamato fired at. In Oct. '44 the Yamato again saw action in The Battle of Samar where the first day it was attacked by aircraft and the 2nd day Yamato engaged the Taffy-3 task group and Yamato was credited with sinking an escort CV and a Destroyer. Had yamato stayed on course and finished the fight it would probably have ended up a shooting duel with a Yank Iowa class BB. However Yamato was damaged and the IJN withdrew it. This was the only surface action the BB ever got into.

Of course last was Operation Ten-Ichi-Go where Yamato got all blowed up at and sunk. Its true tho for most of the war it was a floating hotel. Its sister BB even more so. Musashi's only combat action was as a floating target for USN dive bombers and Torpedo planes.

Yamato actually had its share of sea time but the IJN was awfully conservative about losing it. When they started losing their large fleet CVs they became even more leery because they knew they just couldnt protect the thing from Allied air power. They kept adding AA guns to its Hull but even this didnt protect the Yamato that much. http://combinedfleet.com/yamato.htm
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: kilo2 on June 20, 2009, 05:50:50 PM
Wrong.   But, you're entitled to your opinon, even if you haven't a damn clue of what you're "trying to assume about me".    :x




Well Masherbum wasnt intentional but funny none the less. Lets imagine You say the "Iowa class ships were the pride" and I say "the washington saw 10x combat. But i guess".   :rofl What would you assume? Maybe you dont have a damn clue what you are saying :O
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 20, 2009, 06:12:47 PM
Twice. It saw combat twice. You can almost say 3 times cause He was torpedoed by USS Skate in Dec. '43 and had to return to Truk for repairs. From there He was at The Battle of The Philippine Sea in June '44 where Yamato fired its guns for the first time in anger. Unfortunately it was their own fighters the Yamato fired at. In Oct. '44 the Yamato again saw action in The Battle of Samar where the first day it was attacked by aircraft and the 2nd day Yamato engaged the Taffy-3 task group and Yamato was credited with sinking an escort CV and a Destroyer. Had yamato stayed on course and finished the fight it would probably have ended up a shooting duel with a Yank Iowa class BB. However Yamato was damaged and the IJN withdrew it. This was the only surface action the BB ever got into.

Of course last was Operation Ten-Ichi-Go where Yamato got all blowed up at and sunk. Its true tho for most of the war it was a floating hotel. Its sister BB even more so. Musashi's only combat action was as a floating target for USN dive bombers and Torpedo planes.

Yamato actually had its share of sea time but the IJN was awfully conservative about losing it. When they started losing their large fleet CVs they became even more leery because they knew they just couldnt protect the thing from Allied air power. They kept adding AA guns to its Hull but even this didnt protect the Yamato that much. http://combinedfleet.com/yamato.htm

The Yamato was also at Midway as part of the invasion fleet I believe.

More than likely a Yamato vs. Iowa-fest would not have taken place off Leyte.  Halsey took the Iowa's with him, "...
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: kilo2 on June 20, 2009, 06:17:50 PM
It was there but didnt engage any ships it with the rest of the japenese fleet fled after the 4 carriers were sunk.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 20, 2009, 07:31:50 PM
It was there but didnt engage any ships it with the rest of the japenese fleet fled after the 4 carriers were sunk.

Well, I know.  But it was there.

 :aok

On the other hand, the Mushashi, sister ship to Yamoto, was sunk by airpower while heading to Leyte.  It took seventeen bomb and nineteen torpedoes hits to do her in.


wrongway
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 20, 2009, 08:14:54 PM
Well Masherbum wasnt intentional but funny none the less. Lets imagine You say the "Iowa class ships were the pride" and I say "the washington saw 10x combat. But i guess".   :rofl What would you assume? Maybe you dont have a damn clue what you are saying :O

You're the child calling others names (that's twice you've done it).   Imagine yourself reading a book.   The HMS Hood is NOT A "Battleship" but was included, negating "the original poster's idea in the first place". 
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 20, 2009, 08:16:08 PM
It was there but didnt engage any ships it with the rest of the japenese fleet fled after the 4 carriers were sunk.

So you argue the USS Washington and then try to use the same "argument against Wrgway"?  We got it. 
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2009, 08:24:23 PM
Twice. It saw combat twice. You can almost say 3 times cause He was torpedoed by USS Skate in Dec. '43 and had to return to Truk for repairs. From there He was at The Battle of The Philippine Sea in June '44 where Yamato fired its guns for the first time in anger. Unfortunately it was their own fighters the Yamato fired at. In Oct. '44 the Yamato again saw action in The Battle of Samar where the first day it was attacked by aircraft and the 2nd day Yamato engaged the Taffy-3 task group and Yamato was credited with sinking an escort CV and a Destroyer. Had yamato stayed on course and finished the fight it would probably have ended up a shooting duel with a Yank Iowa class BB. However Yamato was damaged and the IJN withdrew it. This was the only surface action the BB ever got into.

Of course last was Operation Ten-Ichi-Go where Yamato got all blowed up at and sunk. Its true tho for most of the war it was a floating hotel. Its sister BB even more so. Musashi's only combat action was as a floating target for USN dive bombers and Torpedo planes.

Yamato actually had its share of sea time but the IJN was awfully conservative about losing it. When they started losing their large fleet CVs they became even more leery because they knew they just couldnt protect the thing from Allied air power. They kept adding AA guns to its Hull but even this didnt protect the Yamato that much. http://combinedfleet.com/yamato.htm

Yamato actually didn't do much of anything against Taffy 3 as it changed course to avoid 3 torpedos from the USS Herrmann and took itself out of the fight.  It didn't sink anything and spent a lot of time dodging FM2s and TBMs.  It did not sink Gambier Bay, Johnston, Hoel or Samual B Roberts.  The Fast Battleships of the USN were with Halsey too far away to do any good.  Had Yamato kept coming it probably would have been the BBs of Olendorf including the rebuilt Pearl survivors that would have been shooting at it.  Hard to say how that would have gone as US fire control radars were quite good.  West Virginia scored on her first salvos at 22,000 yards at night when Olendorf crossed the T against the Japanese fleet in Surigo Straits
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Selino631 on June 20, 2009, 10:13:46 PM
what about the Italian Navy?
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Rino on June 20, 2009, 10:22:08 PM
     They were great at stopping British torps and cruiser shells :)
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2009, 11:49:54 PM
what about the Italian Navy?

If you are serious, I'd suggest some research into the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 and the London Naval Treaty of 1930 and then 1936.  Italy was one of the countries involved along with the US, England, France and Japan.

The arms race before nukes was capital ships.  You projected power and were a player if you had the navy to back it up.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: kilo2 on June 21, 2009, 08:12:09 AM
You're the child calling others names (that's twice you've done it).  Imagine yourself reading a book.  The HMS Hood is NOT A "Battleship" but was included, negating "the original poster's idea in the first place". 

I said Masherbum Wasn't intentional. That means I didn't mean to do it. It was a typo a funny typo. The Hood was a battleship just because the English called it a BattleCrusier doesn't really mean anything. It was around The Same Tonnage as a Iowa Class Ship and only one foot Shorter. The main difference between a battlecrusier and a battle ship was speed the Hood went just as fast as a Iowa class battleship so one could say it was more a battleship. I wasn't Arguing with wrngway. Lets play this back for you maybe you will understand. HE  says "The yamato was part of the midway invasion fleet" I respond "It was there but it didn't engage any ships" wait that sounds like I agree with him hmmmm.


Now MasherBrUM "Imagine yourself reading a book". That wasn't very friendly. Maybe you should imagine yourself with better manners. A couple of post back you said I was wrong with no explanation. Why not instead of calling people wrong and making jest, why not say wrong and this is why I think/Know your wrong. I mean that's what a forum is for active Discussion. Now above I posted some things that could be argued this is a great opportunity to practice

Ready 1..2...3......GO!
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Masherbrum on June 21, 2009, 10:25:06 AM
I said Masherbum Wasn't intentional. That means I didn't mean to do it. It was a typo a funny typo. The Hood was a battleship just because the English called it a BattleCrusier doesn't really mean anything. It was around The Same Tonnage as a Iowa Class Ship and only one foot Shorter. The main difference between a battlecrusier and a battle ship was speed the Hood went just as fast as a Iowa class battleship so one could say it was more a battleship. I wasn't Arguing with wrngway. Lets play this back for you maybe you will understand. HE  says "The yamato was part of the midway invasion fleet" I respond "It was there but it didn't engage any ships" wait that sounds like I agree with him hmmmm.


Now MasherBrUM "Imagine yourself reading a book". That wasn't very friendly. Maybe you should imagine yourself with better manners. A couple of post back you said I was wrong with no explanation. Why not instead of calling people wrong and making jest, why not say wrong and this is why I think/Know your wrong. I mean that's what a forum is for active Discussion. Now above I posted some things that could be argued this is a great opportunity to practice

Ready 1..2...3......GO!

It wasn't.   I'm through with you.   As I said previously, some of you need to read more before you start spouting.   

Enjoy the thread though!   :x
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 21, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
Yamato actually didn't do much of anything against Taffy 3 as it changed course to avoid 3 torpedos from the USS Herrmann and took itself out of the fight.  It didn't sink anything and spent a lot of time dodging FM2s and TBMs.  It did not sink Gambier Bay, Johnston, Hoel or Samual B Roberts.  The Fast Battleships of the USN were with Halsey too far away to do any good.  Had Yamato kept coming it probably would have been the BBs of Olendorf including the rebuilt Pearl survivors that would have been shooting at it.  Hard to say how that would have gone as US fire control radars were quite good.  West Virginia scored on her first salvos at 22,000 yards at night when Olendorf crossed the T against the Japanese fleet in Surigo Straits

The problem there would be, if memory serves correct, the "Ghosts of Pearl Harbor" were carrying a lot of HE rounds, and not a lot of AP rounds, because they were tasked mostly with shore bombardment, not to mention their guns were not nearly so powerful as the 16" naval rifles of the Iowa class. It might have been real hard to take on the Yamato with mostly HE rounds. In that case, the best you could hope for is to try to wreck the Yamato's topside, the less heavily armored bridge, etc, with HE, so that the control would be greatly reduced, and then hope you could hammer her with what AP you had.

The big problem with deciding what was necessary to take out either of the Yamato class ships was that claims of hits on a ship like that during battle were not necessarily accurate, and with so many claimed, and possible, it is difficult to know which hits did what damage. Either of those ships, in their final battles, could have been hit many times after they had already been fatally damaged. Given their size, it could take hours before they sunk, even if they were fatally damaged. Unless you have a hit like the Arizona or the Hood took, you often do not know which hit was fatal.
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: kilo2 on June 21, 2009, 10:55:26 AM
Thats Cool state something with out backing it up seems like your M.O.
AS a matter of fact I have read quite a few books on WW2. Maybe you shouldnt be so pretentious. You havent adding anything to any thread i have ever seen you post in. All you do is call people out and say there wrong. Then when someone challenges that you go "im through with you" and run out, again with out adding anything. So if your done see you.

Oh and happy fathers day if your a father Masherbrum  

It wasn't.   I'm through with you.   As I said previously, some of you need to read more before you start spouting.   

Enjoy the thread though!   :x
Title: Re: History Buffs: Question for you!
Post by: Rich46yo on June 21, 2009, 01:21:39 PM
The Yamato was also at Midway as part of the invasion fleet I believe.

More than likely a Yamato vs. Iowa-fest would not have taken place off Leyte.  Halsey took the Iowa's with him, "...

"He" was at Midway. But far in the rear, with the gear. Like I said Yamato actually saw its share of sea time but the IJN was so petrified of losing him before this mythical, samurai, grand show down with the USN fantasy of theirs happened.

Of course it was all fantasy. The aircraft carrier had become the main instrument of sea power and the Yamato belonged to a different era. He couldnt even be used as a shore bombardment platform cause the Jap HE shells were either lousy or non-existant.

BTW Halsey changed his mind and ended up sending Task force 34 back south to help the 7'th fleet. Included in that task force was USS Iowa and USS New Jersey. Course the Yamato was probably still running away from the torpedoes shot at it by Taffy-3s little unarmored Destroyers when they scattered the japs like a flock of chickens.

Both the Yamato and Musashi were impressive ships but they didnt exactly have impressive service lives.