Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on July 06, 2009, 12:54:47 AM
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(http://www.tayyareci.com/digerucaklar/japonya/ww2/ki45.jpg)
(http://avions.legendaires.free.fr/Images/Gki45.jpg)
By 1937, interest in a twin-engine fighter had peaked for the Imperial Japanese Army so much so that a requirement was put forth for the nation's first. Kawasaki entered into the fray successfully and presented the Ki-45 series shortly thereafter. The Ki-45 Toryu (meaning "Dragon Killer" or "Dragon Slayer" and nicknamed "Nick" by the Allies) would go on to find success at many differing levels, but more importantly, it would provide the Imperial Army with the much needed Ki-45 KAIc dedicated night-fighter platform (detailed elsewhere on this site), and challenge the night time bombing campaign of the Allies over control of the Pacific Theater.
Design of the Ki-45 followed standard two-engine fighter design for the time. Engines were mounted on a low-wing monoplane, each engine on either side of the streamlined fuselage. Accommodations consisted of two personnel seating in a divided glazed canopy. A single tail fin made up a standard tail assembly, giving the Ki-45 a identifiable Bf 110-like appearance. Armament of the base Ki-45 KAIa consisted of one forward-firing 20mm cannon, two 12.7mm (.50 caliber machine guns mounted in the nose and a single 7.92mm self-defense machine gun in the rear cockpit position making the Ki-45 system a most potent adversary. Provision was also allowed for up to two 551lb bombs held underwing. The Ki-45 KAIb model series appeared soon enough and was designed as a dedicated ground attack / anti-shipping variant. The system sported a 20mm cannon in the nose, a fuselage-mounted 37mm cannon, the standard 7.92mm machine gun in the rear cockpit and the system also retained the bomb-carrying provision of its predecessor. A large caliber (75mm) cannon was also trialed with the system for the anti-shipping role.
The Ki-45 would be airborne in prototype forms by 1939, though developmental setbacks would stave off production till mid-to-late September of 1941. The system was quickly thrown into action against bomber formations of the United States Army Air Force and achieved particular successes against B-24 Liberator types. A dependable and hard-hitting platform, the Ki-45 system excelled against such slow-moving targets. The Ki-45 was transformed into a dedicated nightfighter in the Ki-45 KAIc model series with obliquely-mounted 37mm cannon and advanced search radar. The C-model went on to become the definitive Ki-45. As excellent a system as Japan fielded however, the Ki-45 was relegated to homeland defense as Allied advancements in the Pacific continued to hamper offensive operations by the Japanese.
Dimensions:
Length: 36.09ft (11.00m)
Width:49.28ft (15.02m)
Height: 12.14ft (3.70m)
Structure:
Accommodation: 2
Hardpoints: 2
Empty Weight: 8,818lbs (4,000kg)
MTOW: 12,125lbs (5,500kg)
Performance:
Max Speed: 336mph (540kmh; 292kts)
Max Range: 1,243miles (2,000km)
Rate-of-Climb:2,300ft/min (701m/min)
Service Ceiling: 32,808ft (10,000m; 6.2miles)
Engine(s): 2 x Mitsubishi Ha-102 14-cylinder radial piston engines generating 975hp each.
Armament Suite:
1 x 20mm cannon (forward firing)
2 x 12.7mm machine guns in nose position
1 x 7.92mm machine gun in rear cockpit position
OPTIONAL:
2 x 551lb bombs carried underwing
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made by the same people and might be same plane not much an expertthis entered service in 44 not much action
Kawasaki Ki-102
Crew: 2
Length: 37 ft 7 in (11.45 m)
Wingspan: 51 ft 1 in (15.57 m)
Height: 12 ft 2 in (3.70 m)
Wing area: 366 ft² (34 m²)
Empty weight: 10,900 lb (4,950 kg)
Loaded weight: 16,000 lb (7,300 kg)
Powerplant: 2× Mitsubishi Ha-112-II Ru 14-cylinder radial engine, 1,500 hp (1,120 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 310 kn, 360 mph (580 km/h)
Range: 1,100 nmi, 1,200 mi (2,000 km)
Service ceiling: 33,000 ft (10,000 m)
Power/mass: 2.4 kg/kW (5.4 lb/hp)
Armament
Guns: * 1× 57 mm (2.24 in) Ho-401 cannon~replaced in the 102a with a 37 mm (1.46 in) cannon, deleted in the 102c
2× 20 mm Ho-5 cannon~replaced in the 102c with 30 mm (1.18 in) cannons
1× 12.7 mm (0.50 in) Ho-103 machine gun~deleted in the 102a and 102c
Bombs: 2 × 200 L (53 US gal) drop tanks or 2 × 250 kg (551 lb) bombs
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+1
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I'm imagining the confusion on Vox when a Ki-45 and N1K2 are in the same furball. We'll need to get people to stop calling the N1K "Nik" and "Nikki...."
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I'm imagining the confusion on Vox when a Ki-45 and N1K2 are in the same furball. We'll need to get people to stop calling the N1K "Nik" and "Nikki...."
I'm all about the Ki-45, but can do without the Ki-102. We'll need to teach people to call the N1K2 "George"...
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No doubt. People readily called the rest of the Japanese plane set by their Allied codenames, why is the N1K so hard? That's been going on since Air Warrior (it's actually a bit of a pet peeve hearing someone say "Nikki in!." I always make an effort to use "George" or actually read out N-1-K).
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I agree. :aok I've mentioned the Ki-45 previously in multiple threads. As a few have already menitoned, imagine the confusion when us "realist" start calling out "Nick at 10 O'Clock high". I get about a 50/50 split of those who know vs not know when I call out the "George".
:)
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I agree. :aok I've mentioned the Ki-45 previously in multiple threads. As a few have already menitoned, imagine the confusion when us "realist" start calling out "Nick at 10 O'Clock high". I get about a 50/50 split of those who know vs not know when I call out the "George".
:)
The KI-45 would be a wonderful addition. I like to see the N1K getting refered to as George anyway. Maybe this addition would help. ;)
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I can see the N1K staying as a nikki and the "Nick" just being called the KI45. How many times do you hear that a Frank or Tony is on your tail? Even the Zekes are normally referred to as A6M's. Nonetheless, bring on the Nick!
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Personally I think with the KI45 the allied code names would be thrown to the wind and most folk would just end up calling it a "45" LOL
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I can see the N1K staying as a nikki and the "Nick" just being called the KI45. How many times do you hear that a Frank or Tony is on your tail? Even the Zekes are normally referred to as A6M's. Nonetheless, bring on the Nick!
I've heard a lot of veterans refer to the A6M as the "Zero" instead of the "Zeke". I understand that was the only Japanese fighter that was commonly called by its actual name and not its allied code name though.
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Sounds like a pretty good idea. :aok
PS: I always refer to the A6M as zeke, but also call out the N1K2 as the "Nikki".
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Maybe there should be a filter instituted on TXT and VOX that treats calling the N1K "Nikki" as profanity. :D
Karnak,
"Zero" isn't its actual name either. The A6M was officially the Reisen. "Zero" was slang (both by the Japanese and Allies) for its designation as "Type-0" carrier-borne fighter.
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Saxman,
Yes, I know, but was trying to be generalist.
Basically I was saying it was the only Japanese aircraft that was ever called the same thing by its Japanese users and Allied opponents.
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No doubt. People readily called the rest of the Japanese plane set by their Allied codenames, why is the N1K so hard? That's been going on since Air Warrior (it's actually a bit of a pet peeve hearing someone say "Nikki in!." I always make an effort to use "George" or actually read out N-1-K).
Fantastic, really. :rolleyes:
No one wants to be bothered with the specifics of an aircraft like that when they are in the middle of a dogfight. Nikki is very easy to say.
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+1 on the plane. Time to see some diversity.
As far as the N1K goes. I try and say out N-1-K too. Really doesn't take any longer than saying "Nikki"
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[
Armament Suite:
1 x 20mm cannon (forward firing)
2 x 12.7mm machine guns in nose position
1 x 7.92mm machine gun in rear cockpit position
OPTIONAL:
2 x 551lb bombs carried underwing
[/quote]
actually here is the correct armamnet loadout:
Armament
Ko: 1 × 20 mm, 2 × 12.7 mm (.50 in), 2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in)
Otsu: 1 × 37 mm (1.46 in), 2 × 12.7 mm (.50 in), 1 × 7.92 mm (.312 in)
Hei: 1 × 37 mm (1.46 in), 1 × 20 mm, 1 × 7.92 mm (.312 in)
Tei: 1 × 37 mm (1.46 in), 2 × 20 mm
Bo: 1 × 40 mm (1.57 in)
I would love to see it added
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But, but, it's an extra syllable.......... :D
+1 on the plane. Time to see some diversity.
As far as the N1K goes. I try and say out N-1-K too. Really doesn't take any longer than saying "Nikki"
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It would be a nice addition but it would be chewed to bits by regular fighters. The "Nick" was the only Japanese plane the P-38 could easily out turn.
ack-ack
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It would be a nice addition but it would be chewed to bits by regular fighters. The "Nick" was the only Japanese plane the P-38 could easily out turn.
ack-ack
Like a 110?
I'd love to see it added, with 2x20mm and 1x37mm it might be a good bomber killer
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It would be a nice addition but it would be chewed to bits by regular fighters. The "Nick" was the only Japanese plane the P-38 could easily out turn.
ack-ack
Its wing loading is far, far, far lower than the P-38's. Where do you get that the P-38 easily out turned it?
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Its wing loading is far, far, far lower than the P-38's. Where do you get that the P-38 easily out turned it?
From Combat Tactics in the Southwest Pacific Area, written by Maj. Thomas B. McGuire, Jr. in 1944.
Nick - There haven't been many of these twin-engine fighters in this area and with their poor performance they are becoming scarcer as P-38 pilots and others prove that this is one Japanese fighter they can out-turn, out-run, and out-climb. The NICK is structurally strong and there will be some difficulty in diving away, but then it won't be necessary unless he gets close on your tail.
ack-ack
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I wonder how that was determined and if it is correct? Maybe the Ki-45 had very heavy elevators.
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Like a 110?
I'd love to see it added, with 2x20mm and 1x37mm it might be a good bomber killer
It would be, from reports that I've read the Nick was a successful night fighter against Allied bombers.
ack-ack
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I wonder how that was determined and if it is correct? Maybe the Ki-45 had very heavy elevators.
Maybe from his own and other P-38 drivers experience in fighting against the Nick as well as Allied testing of captured models.
If anyone hasn't read it yet, I do recommend reading Combat Tactics in the Southwest Pacific Area. It has good information about the capabilities of certain Japanese aircraft as well as tactics, especially pertaining to a P-38 matchup.
ack-ack
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Just be careful how you interpret "out turn". I doubt McGuire was talking about a stall fight...
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Just be careful how you interpret "out turn". I doubt McGuire was talking about a stall fight...
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that most in here know that 'out turning' doesn't always apply to a lufberry turn fight. YMMV.
ack-ack
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I'll accept that for the three names listed so far in the discussion, but there's always that guy that sees something like that and runs with it. :aok
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i don't like using people names for planes. i like to fly the ki-84, find it hard calling it a frank. george sounds more absurd.
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stran,
Then use the Japanese names. The "Frank" was the Ki-84 Hayate which means "Gale" (as in the storm) and the "George" was the N1K Shiden which means "Violet Lightning". We actually have a "George 21" N1K2-J Shiden-Kai in AH.
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It would be a nice addition but it would be chewed to bits by regular fighters. The "Nick" was the only Japanese plane the P-38 could easily out turn.
ack-ack
That's what they say about the Ki-61, but wait, I suck at this game anyways. Carry on.
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That's what they say about the Ki-61, but wait, I suck at this game anyways. Carry on.
And it usually is when it comes up against a mid-war or late-war plane flown by another player with equal skill level.
Not saying the Ki-61 sucks at all, I've seen what a well flown Ki-61 can do when I used to fly with odege late at night but against some planes it's just out matched. In those cases where the Ki-61 driver runs into a plane, for example the P-38, that is flown by someone of the same skill level, the P-38 driver will be able to dictate the fight at will unless he screws up like thinking the Ki-61 is an easy kill. The P-38 has the advantage in all areas with the exception of flat turns and you know that is the one area the experienced P-38 driver will not get into against a Tony.
McGuire also didn't think lightly of the Tony. Again, his description of the Tony.
Tony - The usual armament of this plane is two 12.7 mm. machine guns, synchronized through the prop with one 12.7 mm. machine gun in each wing. (Later models have one 20 mm in each wing). With heavier armor and a fair quality of self-sealing tanks, this plane does not have the tendency of the OSCAR and ZEKE models to explode or burn unless a very good hit is scored. An in-line fighter like our P-40’s, the TONY is not an altitude fighter but makes up for this by being faster than the ZEKE in level flight and extremely fast in a dive. A successful evasive tactic against this plane is, if in a dive, to make a diving turn to the right. At high speeds the TONY handles very poorly to the right and the Japanese pilot has trouble turning in that direction. If you are pursued from the rear and on the level, a very high-speed, shallow climb will keep you out of range and eventually you will draw way.
One pilot found out about this the hard way. He was returning from a strike at Wewak when he was jumped by three TONYS. He was at 20,000 feet at the time and went into a shallow dive which ended up on the deck one hundred miles farther south, with the TONYS right behind him. Forced to alter his tactics, the pilot began a high-speed, shallow climb and soon lost them. His was the original experience of this sort with the TONY and his pioneerings saved many from falling into the same error.
If you are on the deck, a very sharp turn to the right at high-speed, may do as an emergency maneuver, but it is definitely a last resort and at best will only keep the enemy pilot from holding his lead on you.
ack-ack
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Am I wrong or is his description different from the AH '61's setup with the cannons in the cowl?
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Am I wrong or is his description different from the AH '61's setup with the cannons in the cowl?
The Ki-61 that is being described I believe is the Ki-61-I-Ko, while we have the Ki-61-I-KAIc.
ack-ack
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:aok