Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on July 30, 2009, 03:33:31 PM

Title: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2009, 03:33:31 PM
No actual performance change with new patch.

Still much stutter when moving between locations (tower, hangar), spawning on runway.
Frequent heavy stutters when looking around (TrackIr) and/or bringing up clipboard.
Vid Mem usage increasing much more after each stutter, instead of going up to ~120mb now more like 160MB

Once I came near the A19 furball area, FR went wildly all over the place 60-28-60-35, accompanied with massive stuttering that made fighting absolutely impossible in any way.

All this even with detailed water off to get a similar appearence as I had in 2.13, where I had rock stable FR 60 under almost all circumstances.

On way back to homebase I tested minimizeing the game. When alt-tabbing back, vid mem usage went only back up to ~105MB instead of ~160MB, so stutter was again very hard when getting airfield back into view.

AMD 64 X2 4200, 2GB ram
GF 9600 GT 512MB
XP SP3, running AH in compatibility mode
SB Life 24, running stock AH sounds
1280*1024
All GPU settings "application controlled! when applicable
Vsync enabled
No AA
HD defragged

Textures 1024MB with high-res pack
reducued textures to 512MB and restarted game, same problem, stutters maybe a little less severe, but had to test this in arena with less action.

no detailed water or any self-shadows
sliders @ deafault
disabled other player skins.




unplayable
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: whiteman on July 30, 2009, 03:38:51 PM
I dropped the Hi Res and 1024 and am at 512, surprisingly not bad to look at. Minor issues I'll work on when i get home, Fuzzy skins and gauges. Frame Rates 40-59 depending on how much of the ground is visible.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Overlag on July 30, 2009, 03:43:50 PM
again, unplayable except in areas where only 1-2 planes are. even then its dropping from 60fps to 20-5fps randomly
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Plazus on July 30, 2009, 03:59:14 PM
On my end, it has improved a little bit. With the textures now preloading, it has helped with some significant fps drops. However, I still get stutters when I roll my plane from side to side, or if I move my head and look in another direction. I still have fuzzy gauges, and fuzzy objects in the distance. This is an anisotropic issue.

Note- Im using the nVdia GeForce 9600 GSO with 768 MB with maxed graphics in game

For the record, I have my graphics card set to "Application Controled" in the anisotropic filtering category. I bumped the anisotropic filtering level to 8x earlier today, and the gauges were still a bit fuzzy, as well as other distant objects. So increasing the filtering did little to help with the game.

Also, I tried increasing the pre-rendered frames like Scratchman had suggested. After frequent testing, I had the level up to 7 with no performance gains whatsoever.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Wmaker on July 30, 2009, 04:29:16 PM
On my end, it totally stopped the stuttering. It's like a different game now. The gunsite texture is taking a min or so to load at times but it's usually there for action. :) The program did hang once with a white screen but that was the only problem I encountered.

Thanks HTC!

And to those still having problems, I know it sure can be frustrating but fortunately HTC has 100% track record in fixing problems of this nature. <S>
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gyrene81 on July 30, 2009, 05:38:50 PM
GF 9600 GT 512MB
1280*1024
All GPU settings "application controlled! when applicable
Vsync enabled
No AA
I noticed your video card and the resolution you're running at...I'm guessing you're running at 60Hz refresh rate...I have a 9500GT and no spazzing action in game running 1440x900 at 75Hz with 512 textures (75 frame rate detailed ground, water, shadows, no self shadow)...even my old system with the 7300GT is performing fairly well.

Take a look at the specs between the 2 cards:

9600GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9600gt_us.html)

9500GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9500gt_us.html)


You're card should be able to handle a heavier load than mine...so it's A) driver issue <video or sound card> - B) power to the video card C) resolution and refresh rate D) need to uninstall and reinstall using the latest full game download.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gpa3 on July 30, 2009, 05:42:42 PM
Also, in the NVidia software control panel tell the card to run 3D in "performance" not "quality".

PS: Stuttering means low Frames Per Second I assume.

Did you install latest drivers?
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2009, 05:48:33 PM
I noticed your video card and the resolution you're running at...I'm guessing you're running at 60Hz refresh rate...I have a 9500GT and no spazzing action in game running 1440x900 at 75Hz with 512 textures (75 frame rate detailed ground, water, shadows, no self shadow)...even my old system with the 7300GT is performing fairly well.

Take a look at the specs between the 2 cards:

9600GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9600gt_us.html)

9500GT (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_9500gt_us.html)


You're card should be able to handle a heavier load than mine...so it's A) driver issue <video or sound card> - B) power to the video card C) resolution and refresh rate D) need to uninstall and reinstall using the latest full game download.

- Running latest Nvidia dirvers
- Power - Card runs fine under much more graphic intensive games for prolonged times, also I don't have any problems with 2.13
- game is already a complete fresh install with stock sounds, 512 textures,  no skins and tuned to "performance" to remove as many unknown variables as possible


: Stuttering means low Frames Per Second I assume.

No. Stutters are micro-freezes, apparently happening when new textures have to be loaded. FR can still show 60, though erratic FR jumping all over the place do happen too.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Amsoil21 on July 30, 2009, 05:50:38 PM
yes stuttering like low fps only the indicated fps id 65 + on mine
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2009, 05:50:42 PM
Also, in the NVidia software control panel tell the card to run 3D in "performance" not "quality".

PS: Stuttering means low Frames Per Second I assume.

Did you install latest drivers?

No, stuttering doesn't always equate to a loss of frame rates.  I get frequent stutters while my frame rate is at a rock steady 75fps and doesn't deviate during the stuttering.

ack-ack
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gyrene81 on July 30, 2009, 05:52:47 PM
There is a big difference between the way most games preload (cache) textures and the way AH is suddenly doing it. Many of those graphic intensive games use the OpenGL graphics process...if I'm not grossly mistaken AH is using Direct3d(?)...you're video card takes a bigger hit trying to process the textures in AH than it would in most other games.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gpa3 on July 30, 2009, 05:55:00 PM
Did you try this?  "Also, in the NVidia software control panel tell the card to run 3D in "performance" not "quality". "
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2009, 05:56:46 PM
There is a big difference between the way most games preload (cache) textures and the way AH is suddenly doing it. Many of those graphic intensive games use the OpenGL graphics process...if I'm not grossly mistaken AH is using Direct3d(?)...you're video card takes a bigger hit trying to process the textures in AH than it would in most other games.

trust me: my machins does run games that put a much heavier load on my GPU than AHII.. so I doubt  power supply (which should me more than sufficient anyway) has any part in my problems.

Did you try this?  "Also, in the NVidia software control panel tell the card to run 3D in "performance" not "quality". "


See earlier post about my setup.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gyrene81 on July 30, 2009, 05:57:58 PM
Good luck...  :aok
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2009, 06:00:06 PM
There is a big difference between the way most games preload (cache) textures and the way AH is suddenly doing it. Many of those graphic intensive games use the OpenGL graphics process...if I'm not grossly mistaken AH is using Direct3d(?)...

Most, if not all the 'graphically intensive' games on the market use the Direct3D API and not OpenGL.


ack-ack
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gpa3 on July 30, 2009, 06:04:36 PM
You might get more help in the technical support area. Dunno, but did you try this stuff?

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,199451.0.html

It sounds like there is something (performance wise) going on outside the video card, since your FPS is good. Something with the CPU, RAM or Hard Disk and the game makes it happen.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: AKDogg on July 30, 2009, 06:08:22 PM
Luche, I had same problem with my system.  Urs and mine viturally the same.  I have a 4800+ X2 AMD and a 9800GTX.  I however found a bug using the AMD processor driver.  Uninstall the AMD processor driver.  Restart the computer and let it load the default microsoft drivers.  Makesure it did do that by check the processor driver in the device manager.  I believe the driver date should be 4/something/04 and I believe driver version is 1.0.0.0.  When I did that, I uncecked compatability mode for AH and now I running dual core with no issues using the microsoft AMD driver instead of AMD's processor driver.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2009, 06:08:32 PM
You might get more help in the technical support area. Dunno, but did you try this stuff?

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,199451.0.html

It sounds like there is somthing going on outside the video vard. Something with the CPU, RAM or Hard Disk and the game makes it happen.

Well... if no other application (and I run a lot of very different applications) and game , and no previous AH version did "make it happen" - doesn't sound it more like the game's problem? ;)

And yes thank you, I know about that thread. I wouldn't have been able to play AH If I had not :)


Luche, I had same problem with my system.  Urs and mine viturally the same.  I have a 4800+ X2 AMD and a 9800GTX.  I however found a bug using the AMD processor driver.  Uninstall the AMD processor driver.  Restart the computer and let it load the default microsoft drivers.  Makesure it did do that by check the processor driver in the device manager.  I believe the driver date should be 4/something/04 and I believe driver version is 1.0.0.0.  When I did that, I uncecked compatability mode for AH and now I running dual core with no issues using the microsoft AMD driver instead of AMD's processor driver.

Oh.. that sounds definitely like being worth a try :)
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gyrene81 on July 30, 2009, 06:10:22 PM
Most, if not all the 'graphically intensive' games on the market use the Direct3D API and not OpenGL.
ack-ack
You might want to check your facts again...OpenGL is the standard for 3D graphics games, mostly first person shooters...Direct3D is/was a standard used in commercial graphics applications like Autocad...flight simulators tend to use it as well.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Strip on July 30, 2009, 06:16:57 PM
Anyone notice that between the downloading new video drivers and the new patch the game loads a ton faster after alt-tab?
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: AKDogg on July 30, 2009, 06:18:26 PM
That is because they got rid of the skins cache.  They only using terrian cache now.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: DMBEAR on July 30, 2009, 06:18:54 PM
uncheck the Horizon box too.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Widewing on July 30, 2009, 06:38:35 PM
Most, if not all the 'graphically intensive' games on the market use the Direct3D API and not OpenGL.


ack-ack

Indeed, OpenGL is more commonly used for design software. IE: CAD systems. I can't remember seeing a game using OpenGL.


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2009, 06:55:33 PM
You might want to check your facts again...OpenGL is the standard for 3D graphics games, mostly first person shooters...Direct3D is/was a standard used in commercial graphics applications like Autocad...flight simulators tend to use it as well.

I'm sorry to say but you're still incorrect.  OpenGL is not the standard renderer for 3D games, it's Direct3D (DirectX API) and has been for pretty much 10 years or more (pretty much became the standard after DirectX 3 was released).  Direct3D powers pretty much every major 3D PC game engine from Epic's Unreal 3 to Valve's Source engine.  I think the last major engine that used OpenGL was the Quake3 engine. 

OpenGL has been able to maintain it's life (as a cost effective solution to a 3D engine) because of it's open source nature, which makes it an attractive API for low-budget and indie studios but it's definitely not the industry standard.  Nothing is going to knock DirectX from that perch.


ack-ack
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2009, 07:05:32 PM
Luche, I had same problem with my system.  Urs and mine viturally the same.  I have a 4800+ X2 AMD and a 9800GTX.  I however found a bug using the AMD processor driver.  Uninstall the AMD processor driver.  Restart the computer and let it load the default microsoft drivers.  Makesure it did do that by check the processor driver in the device manager.  I believe the driver date should be 4/something/04 and I believe driver version is 1.0.0.0.  When I did that, I uncecked compatability mode for AH and now I running dual core with no issues using the microsoft AMD driver instead of AMD's processor driver.

And it really works.

Stutter almost gone completely.
Still some FR issues, but they seem to be not that big, additional testing necessary.

But only as long as the program runs at all. Not running AH 2.14 in compatibility mode means frequent crash, particularly when minimizing the game - ye olde dual core bug.
Running in compatibility mode = stutter again.

In other words - I can now chose between stutter & crash.

 :(


But a big  :salute to AKDogg


Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: AKDogg on July 30, 2009, 07:58:35 PM
Hmm, ur sure it the microsoft driver, not the AMD driver?  Fixed mine and a few of the squady's problem with a 100% success rate.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Lusche on July 30, 2009, 08:01:06 PM
Hmm, ur sure it the microsoft driver, not the AMD driver?  Fixed mine and a few of the squady's problem with a 100% success rate.

Yes I am. Microsoft 5.1.2600.0 from April 2004

But I remember... Wasn't the  AMD dual core bug a hardware issue, and only appear in early X2's (I have one of those) and was fixed in later series?
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: AKDogg on July 30, 2009, 08:04:48 PM
ok, go to device manager and then go to each processor and click update driver.  Let it go to the internet to find a driver.  Microsoft has a updated driver.  It should be dated as 8/10/2007 driver version 1.0.0.0.  U have to do the update for both processors listed there.

Makesure ur motherboard bios settings are at defualt for clocking the processor.  Don't overclock.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: AKDogg on July 30, 2009, 08:07:04 PM
But I remember... Wasn't the  AMD dual core bug a hardware issue, and only appear in early X2's (I have one of those) and was fixed in later series?

Mine is the same generation, a 939 pin AMD64 X2 4800+.  Its the same chip but faster speed and more L2 cache I believe then yours.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Anodizer on July 30, 2009, 08:41:45 PM
There is a big difference between the way most games preload (cache) textures and the way AH is suddenly doing it. Many of those graphic intensive games use the OpenGL graphics process...if I'm not grossly mistaken AH is using Direct3d(?)...you're video card takes a bigger hit trying to process the textures in AH than it would in most other games.

Hardly anyone uses openGL anymore in gaming..    Haven't seen a game in the last 6-7(maybe more) years that uses openGL..  I think the only thing I've seen using openGL recently is TargetWare and maybe some other opensource games..  ALL major titles are DirectX.... 
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Anodizer on July 30, 2009, 08:43:17 PM
You might want to check your facts again...OpenGL is the standard for 3D graphics games, mostly first person shooters...Direct3D is/was a standard used in commercial graphics applications like Autocad...flight simulators tend to use it as well.

Perhaps you should check your facts..  They are most definitely incorrect..
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: gyrene81 on July 30, 2009, 10:18:13 PM
Hardly anyone uses openGL anymore in gaming..    Haven't seen a game in the last 6-7(maybe more) years that uses openGL..  I think the only thing I've seen using openGL recently is TargetWare and maybe some other opensource games..  ALL major titles are DirectX.... 
Wow...so I'm guessing there shouldn't be any reason for Call of Duty 4 to have opengl errors...perhaps Call of Duty 5 shouldn't either...perhaps Nvidia and ATI shouldn't support OpenGL 3.0 any longer since it hasn't been used in 6 or 7 years in any game...makes you wonder why OpenGL exploits work on new games...after all it doesn't exist in new games.


Geniuses.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2009, 10:50:57 PM
Wow...so I'm guessing there shouldn't be any reason for Call of Duty 4 to have opengl errors...perhaps Call of Duty 5 shouldn't either...perhaps Nvidia and ATI shouldn't support OpenGL 3.0 any longer since it hasn't been used in 6 or 7 years in any game...makes you wonder why OpenGL exploits work on new games...after all it doesn't exist in new games.


Geniuses.

The Call of Duty series are one of the very few games that still uses the Quake3 engine.  Yes, the 3D engine that has powered all of the CoD games is a heavily modified version of the Quake3 engine.  That's why it's still in OpenGL and the Quake3 engine was the last major 3D engine to use OpenGL.  I never said it was no longer used, it is and in the gaming industry it's a viable option for small and indie studios.  However, it is not the industry standard, DirectX hold those reigns and easily 9 out of 10 major titles use this API and not OpenGL.  OpenGL lost the war back in '97, Microsoft hasn't looked back after that.

ack-ack
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: WMLute on July 30, 2009, 11:53:05 PM
The Call of Duty series are one of the very few games that still uses the Quake3 engine.  Yes, the 3D engine that has powered all of the CoD games is a heavily modified version of the Quake3 engine.  That's why it's still in OpenGL and the Quake3 engine was the last major 3D engine to use OpenGL.  I never said it was no longer used, it is and in the gaming industry it's a viable option for small and indie studios.  However, it is not the industry standard, DirectX hold those reigns and easily 9 out of 10 major titles use this API and not OpenGL.  OpenGL lost the war back in '97, Microsoft hasn't looked back after that.

ack-ack

IIRC the Quake engine came out in what.... 1996?  13yr old tech.
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: Scratchman on July 31, 2009, 05:05:22 AM
And it really works.

Stutter almost gone completely.
Still some FR issues, but they seem to be not that big, additional testing necessary.

But only as long as the program runs at all. Not running AH 2.14 in compatibility mode means frequent crash, particularly when minimizing the game - ye olde dual core bug.
Running in compatibility mode = stutter again.

In other words - I can now chose between stutter & crash.

 :(


But a big  :salute to AKDogg




 This post got me to thinking, I had downloaded the AMD Optimizer driver to cure my dual core woes with AH2, version 2.13, but still had to run in Windows 98/SE compatibility mode to cure the spinning clipboard, and "lockups". And that maybe HiTech with the newest version fixed the dual core problems my AMD CPU was having with this game. So I decided that since I had the Optimizer and the latest driver update for my CPU already installed, why not uninstall AH instead and start fresh with the newest version. What I found was that not only did I still have the Beta version installed but AH version 2.13 and 2.14 patch 1 installed and that 2.13 and 2.14 were linked together via the earlier version. So I uninstalled all 3 versions, went to the main website and downloaded 2.14 patch 2 and installed it and the newest HiRes pack. I left the game in default mode and not compatibility mode, and went into the game. So far so good first hour no "stutters", no spinning clipboard, no "lockups", no lost connection switching to TCP message. Keeping fingers crossed, will post my results after a full day of play. To all who participated with their help here, and those who continues to do so, I salute you.  :salute
Title: Re: AH 2.14 patch 2
Post by: chewie86 on July 31, 2009, 05:14:11 AM
Was cruising at 23k alt in B17,  I had 60 FR, a 190D9 went from above me to below me, landed hits on him, as soon as he started leaking oil and fuel my FR dropped to 25s for a bunch of seconds I had him in my gunsight (ball turret). I also had a gunner behind the machineguns.

sys:
2.8 ghz intel core 2 duo
nvidia 8800 GS
2 GB RAM


running AH w/o AA
preloaded textures  = 8
performance modes are all on (from AF to AA application controlled multisampling etc...)